Hi Ladysheep, good to cross paths with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Slammed, when your WH resumed the A, he began to use everything and everyone in his life to justify the A.

Two possibilities for Plan B (and definitely post your letter when it's ready). One is the Arkish cool, breezy, unavailable, and definitely out of the crosshairs, if you can keep that up long enough to get the paperwork out of the way. (And then maybe hand him the letter as you leave the realtor's office?) This would be my preferred scenario, if you can stay far enough from the drama to last a few more days.

If you can't last till the signing, it would be as simple as having the realtor call each of you separately when the paperwork is ready, and giving you different appointments.

Try to focus on the big picture. It's unfortunate OW answered the phone, of course it upset you and hurt you, but it makes no difference in the long run. It indicates little or nothing as to whether your WH comes back or not, or how long it will take. (I believe he will come back, and guess that it probably won't take a terribly long time, but that is based on his behavior, not one particular incident.)

I know exactly how you feel, and I had a last straw too, beyond which I knew I would no longer be able to be polite. But you will get through this, too, and are almost to the safety and calm of Plan B. You're doing great.

Hi Slammed,

You should have NC with H right now. Let him wonder what you are doing, not the other way around. Give yourself a break from all of this. It's just a break, nothing major. H will see that you are getting tired of this. If he calls, let the VM pick up, if he texts you, don't reply. If he shows up at the house, say your on your way out and leave with no explanation. When you feel like talking to him, post to us instead and we will help you through. Take a needed break and pamper yourself. A few days without the drama will do you wonders.

Slammed, I just read a thread called "is a plan b letter necessary? You should check it out. It might help your dilemma. There are both points of view, so you can make an informed decision.

Slammed -

I hope you will get some legal advice. What will keep your WH from running up more credit card dept once you sell the land and pay off cards?

My WH spent every dime we had on the affair and OW. Now that we are divorcing, he wants to sell my home and split that money, since he squandered everything else.

I never thought he would be so irresponsible. I wish I had protected myself financially right after D-day.

Thanks "NSYN" and Beauty ~
I think I can last until the closing is done next week and
avoid much contact at all with WH until then-
Probably would be good to just have the "break" and gives me
a chance to finish the letter too.

I do feel a little better today realizing that last night's
incident doesn't have much to do with the overall situation,
just guess it was a real shock to hear OW answer the phone
(pretty BOLD, I think, but that's how she seems to be) and
to think of her there, "playing house" with WH.

Since he's not called today it makes me wonder if he was
asleep and didn't even know about it, if he was able to
"smooth it over" by telling OW I was just calling in regards
to a business dealing, if he made it as thought we never talk and I was "bugging" him, or if they had a big fight
and he's now mad. Oh well, who knows !!??

I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that she's moved in-
could have just been there for the evening or night, but
if she did move in seems like it will make it a lot harder
to get RID of her ! (can you call Orkin for this, ha ha)
WH told me numerous times that she was NOT moving in, of course, he is not a reliable source !
What made me think it was unlikely was partly her having
horses, which is why she lived out on the edge of town,
where she could have them right on her property with her
house. Guess though, she might have boarded them elsewhere
and moved she and her dogs right in with WH-
Should I try to find out, or just let it be ??

Slammed

Thanks, Beauty- I have seen the thread but didn't read much
of it, will try to catch up on it today. Also, sorry I've
been so preoccupied with my "trauma" the past couple days
that I didn't get to post to you regarding your situation.
I hope to get on the computer tonight at home.

Believer- I agree that you never know what a WS will do and
have to protect yourself financially. I did talk to a lawyer
because I didn't want WH to be able to pay off credit cards
now, then run them up again and try to make me responsible
for half as "marital debt". Also, didn't want to pay off
my car and then have him try to get it or money from it as
a "marital asset" if we D. The lawyer advised I could write
up a stipulation saying just that, with as many details as
possible, us sign and have it notarized, and that it would
be legal and binding. WH has agreed to this verbally, but
I am having him sign it too-

I'm off this afternoon, so getting an oil change and haircut
and won't be home until evening. If WH calls work, he'll now
get my "out of office" message and will have to call the
house or my cell, which I won't answer..
Slammed

Get it in writing before he gets any money. My WH also agreed on a settlement agreement. He even wrote it up. But he balked when it came time to sign it.

LET IT BE!!! You can't obsess over what your H and OW are doing. You are going to go crazy and it is going to consume you. I mentioned a break, and that means a break mentally, physically and emotionally. It hurt you to hear OW's voice, but it is no shock that she would be with H. Every time it's going to hurt. There is no way around it. What your H is doing is mental and emotional abuse. Plain and simple. How long do you want to be abused. Fight back, let him know that when the A ends you will be there, but for right now, you don't want any part of this abuse any longer.

Has this A been exposed to everyone? including OW's family and friends?

Thanks, Beauty. The support and thoughts today has really
helped when I've felt so down.

Finished work, had the car serviced, ate lunch, and am at
home for a short time before going to my hair appointment.
I had no calls all day from WH, which is a bit curious, so
don't know if he's even aware of the incident last night,
knows but doesn't care, or just hasn't tried to call yet.

Did do one thing you all will think was dumb- I called OW's
home phone number, and........it is now disconnected.
So, guess I can now safely assume that OW has moved in with
WH. I think it must have been very recent, as he would call
me at night, from the house just last week, and he sure
couldn't have done that if she was there.
It doesn't really make me feel any worse, just guess I'm
sort of shocked after all the "want to be alone, on my own"
talk from WH, and him looking me in the eyes and swearing
she wasn't going to live with him, several times. (Did he
really think I wouldn't find out ???) Also makes me curious
about what she did with her horses and dogs, since WH was
worried about just our one small dog damaging the floor and
there being no yard at the new house, and she has two big
dogs ! Oh well, not my worry.

Don't know whether to think it's a good thing because them together more may cause more LB's and drive both of them nuts, or if it'll just make it harder to get rid of her.
I'm sure it'll definitely put an end to the bedtime calls
from WH though ! (which should make the Plan B even easier)

I exposed to all my friends and our mutual friends, and OW
herself exposed to WH's XGF and D13 (when she called to
question who XGF was and "why she had talked to WH") After
WH's D13 found out, she mentioned it to WH's Mom, so they
know too. OW is single, so no spouse to expose to, and don't
have any links to her family or friends. She moved here last
August, due to her job and all I know is the state she came
from, no other details.

Will check back later ~

"It doesn't really make me feel any worse, just guess I'm
sort of shocked after all the "want to be alone, on my own"
talk from WH, and him looking me in the eyes and swearing
she wasn't going to live with him, several times."

Don't be too shocked. My WH swore he wasn't living with the OW, even after I caught them in bed. He kept swearing that for 2 and a half years.

Hello Slammed,

I posted to you months ago, I believe. I've been busy myself, and haven't been posting much. From the titles on your threads over the past few months, I had thought I was wrong and that somehow your situation had turned around from what it was months ago. I'm always happy when my more gloomy predictions turn out to be wrong.

Several months ago, I said your husband has multiple sexual addictions and substance abuse problems. These are not MB problems; they are HIS problems to work out on his own time. The OW is only another symptom.

According to the Harleys, Plan A doesn't work in these situations. Because you weren't part of the original problem, there is nothing for you to "prove." They advise going directly to Plan B.

I didn't read this thread carefully -- your posts are long, and it all seems very involved. It seems that YOU need Plan B, not for your marriage, but for your sanity. YOU are very hooked into this drama -- just scanning your posts tells me that. YOU need to check out.

Please don't plan to say anything to him. Please do not extend this one more minute than it needs to be extended. Ark is right. Go silent NOW. Not to manipulate him or bring him around, but so that you can save your energy to restore your life without him.

I know you are worried. But there's very little you can do for him at this point. I believe I said that several months ago. You need to get your life back.

If it helps you send Plan B, think of yourself creating a sane life for him to return to, should he choose that option. But you need to go into withdrawal first. And be prepared for him to choose madness over freedom.

Your right, calling the OW's ph was dumb. Why did you do it? You are going to drive yourself crazy with all the what ifs. You don't know that she moved in with H, you are obsessing about them. I know it is hard to have your H with someone else, but you got to hold it together. No more snooping. Otherwise they are going to start accusing you of harrasment. NC..NC...NC...NC with either of them. You have to stop trying to see what's going on. Your H will wonder why you stopped and will call you..

And that is why you need to send PBL as soon as possible.

No more manipulation. No more "he said, she said, he did that, she did that, he's her husband, he's her wife..." There's way too many games in this, and they appear to be hooked on drama. You are making their relationship work. You make what they do together exciting and real, because they can imagine you gnashing your teeth and crying in the background.

Plan B is the acknowledgement that you have no control over the affair. Plan B is turning the page in your own life and seeing what's on it.

Bow out with dignity. But do bow out.

here is a post on another thread from NKAY. I read it and thought of you.

quote:

"I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I agree with Orchid - don't be available to him. I was in your place a month ago and went to NC - I didn't do a NC letter. Just didn't call. Once he realized that I was starting to do Ok without him, he came back. Also all that alone time with OW did the trick. When I spoke with him and asked if he was happy, he said not really. I told him that I would think she made him very happy since he was willing to give up his wife, family, and friends. His words - "when you spend time with someone, you start to see their true colors"

The OW will become needier than you ever were - just give her a chance.

Hang in there and work on you."


just something to think about

Slammed, I found this statement you made on another thread. I had no idea your H started his A this way. He is very messed up, are you sure you want to take him back? Is OW an online escort (prostitute)? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Qoute from you:

"Hi Tarot,
My WH was on the internet, looking at porn, lots of strange
websites and eventually "Hot local escorts". I looked it
up once myself just to see what it was about and noticed
they listed the fee as $300.00. Oddly enough, I later
found exactly that much money in WH's briefcase a couple
of times, so didn't take too much figuring out-
Later he met the person who's now the OW online.

In counseling with Jennifer at MB, I asked why a man who
seemed to have everything, including a happy marriage at
the time would get involved in something so disgusting as
a prostitute and she said it can be several things-
"MLC"- needing to feel attractive and desirable to prove
they are "young" and boost their ego,
Having a low libdo level, and thus needing a "higher level"
of excitement,
or emotional/mental issues .

In my WH's case, I think he has some of all three.

Best wishes-
Slammed"

You need to take a really good look at what you are holding onto and ask yourself, is H someone who is bad for me and will he be able to change his destructive behavior? I think you know what the answer is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

P.S. If you slept with him since his affair, you need to be checked out by a doctor for STD's...H too!!!!

This is what I've been trying to say all along, Beauty, and this is why I checked out of this thread several months ago. The posts all tended to be focused on getting the guy back.

He needs to address his problems before he's ready for ANY relationship, and she needs to be in Plan B so that she can detach enough to become sane and not hooked into this crazy scene. Then she can, from a place of greater detachment, decide what she needs and what she can tolerate. And she will be better prepared to move on if he can't pull himself together.

Thanks, All, for the replies. Tried to get on the computer
last night at home, but couldn't get a connection. Can only
get on the internet a short bit at a time at work, but will
try to address each post without making it too long.

Did have a run-in with WH last night. Was out watering my
front yard, and WH drove up on the driveway. After very
brief small talk, he asked if I had not sent out his insur.
bill, because I didn't let him know what the amount was.
Said I had tried to leave him a message the night before
but couldn't since OW answered his cell phone. He looked
very surprised and said "WHAT ???"" Told him she had then
hung up, and later called our house three times and hung up.
WH said he was "sorry", had already been asleep and didn't
know anything about it. I said I didn't really care, it
just proved she had moved in despite all his denials, and
was my "last straw". WH then said OW had not moved in
with him, but she was staying there for a few days while
she is moving from her rented house to a new place, and
getting her horse boarded. I said "whatever", that I did
not want to be involved with their games, and as long as
he was involved with her, I was NOT going to be involved
with him. At that, turned and went inside, and I felt
pretty good that I had said "my piece", all calmly and
without being mad or upset. I did tell him the money
figure he needed to know also, so he has no reason to
need to talk to me about anything now.

Believer- Funny that the WS didn't marry us thiking we are
stupid, but then act like we can't figure out anything later
when they are having an A ! Guess they think they have some
kind of "superhero" power like being "invisible" ??

AM Martin- Yes, I do remember you and thanks for posting to
me again. It did appear things were turning around for the
better for a time, but as WH never went true NC with OW, the
A resumed.
WH began therapy with IC and a psychiatrist in December and
seemed to be making some progress on his issues, but since
the A resumed it seems to be far less helpful. Both have
determined he is not an alcoholic or sex addict, but he has
problems in those areas that relate to "lack of impulse control", which are very much part of his bipolar disorder.
My own IC has suggested I might want to go to a support
group for spouses of bipolar people, but I haven't decided
I want to do that right now- I feel like it would keep me
to "attached" to WH when I am wanting to be lovingly "de"-
tatched.
I did counsel with Jennifer at MB, who advised me to do best
possible "Plan A" while WH was still living at home (Jan-
March) then if he was still hanging on with OW, to go to
Plan B after he moved out, so that's where I am now.
I've sent the rough draft "PBL" to her, as she suggested,
and will also post here before I give it to him.

Thanks, Beauty- for your support and the other thread
suggestions to read as well.
No, OW is not a prostitute (although I certainly do consider
her to be a W*^%e), but she and WH did meet online. She
was apparently moving to our town for her job, and thought
it'd be "fun" to already know some people when she got here.
They started talking via computer, phone and TM, then both
flew to Vegas to actually meet in person. A few weeks later
WH helped her move here and immediately moved in with her
where he stayed until their first big fight (Oct) when she
kicked him out and he rented a place to stay. He was there
until he came home from end of Jan to earlier this month
when he moved to the new house.
Prior to them "hooking up", WH did a lot of browsing the
internet, including porn and the escort site. I don't know
for sure, but did suspect he used an escort service. That
led to my question to Jennifer and her answer, as I posted
to Tarot.I think my WH definitely has some "mid-life crisis"
going on, has always had "low libido" so fits her theory,
and already know he has emotional/mental issues.
Definitely no chance of me getting any STDS from WH !

I know I do analyze things too much, but have become much
better at not doing that and being able to detach, much
from the months of IC I have been doing. Still, there's
more I can do as far as strengthening myself, and I hope
to find a better paying job as well, which would help me whether with WH or not.
I don't "need" WH as far as being scared to be alone, or
not being able to take care of things- I was on my own,
with my own house, no bills, a paid-off car, and enjoyed
friends, family, hobbies, and travel, prior to being
married. The hardest part, if we D, would be finances
being very difficult, and emotionally, the loss of my
best friend, and life together that could have been.

Whether together or not, I do hope that WH will be able to
get his act together, get a handle on his illness and issues
and quit being his own worst enemy so he can finally have
a more productive and happy life. His therapist and Dr do
think he can make substantial progress if he continues with
mediciation and therapy, but of course, it's going to be
up to how his effort and sincerity to want to get better.

Slammed

Slammed,

I have been so busy at work (I can't really check my PC at home b/c I have to take care of DS3) these past couple of weeks and could not check your thread. What a jerk your H is! He is the classic case of a shameless cake eater.

I am, though, in a way happy to see that you are now mad at him. It sounds like you have reached a point where you are truly disguised with him. If you feel now you can really review your M and ask yourself if you even want your WH back, PlanB will be easier for you. Detach, detach, detach...

Don't spend too much time thinking about him. When I was at the lowest point, my IC told me this: "Milk, but while you are spending your precious time thinking about WH, he is thinking only about himself and could care less about the M - don't waste your time and energy on this. Just work on yourself. He may or may not come back, but you need to rebuild your life and start spending your time and energy on something more constructive."

And she also gave me this tip: "set aside a time to think about WH if you need to. For example, if you start thinking about him in the morning, tell yourself 'no, I will think about this at 8 tonight', and take care of what you have to do (work, house work, DS3, etc.)" This helped. Till then, I was 24x7 thinking about him and our M, which was driving me totally crazy and extremely tired and sad.

I know you are strong and have shown in the past that you could live your life without WH and without all of the crazy drama. Do it again. Go out with your friends and have fun!

Hugs,
Milk

Slammed, I guess I do not understand. Your post suggests that H paid for escort services and now is with the OW from online? That would seem to me that she is an escort. I don't buy that he has a low libido. If that was the case, what is the OW getting out of this. If this is true, then OW is after something else..Using him for something.. money perhaps? Hence land sale..Certanly not LOVE..Hmmmmm

Also, you said that you did not have to worry about STDs..Why? How do you know that he was not with you both during the A.

I think that you need to have NC with H or OW. You can't rebuild until all of your H's issues are resolved. It could take a very long time for WH to overcome his addictions. You need to be prepared for that. By that time, you will have gotten yourself out of withdrawals from H and can be a bit more objective. Do not listen to H's lies about OW. She is probably living with H. Did you advise H to stop coming over?

H has to many problems (sex and drug addiction, Bi Polar, cake eater adultarer,mental issues,DUI's)..H could be on crack for all you know..The point is that you do not know him right now. He is not the man you married. He may not recover, can you live with that? You sound like a very intellegent woman, but when it comes to H, that seems to go out the window. I'm not saying you are dumb, just looking through rose colored glasses. The point is, you need to look at this situation clearly and the only way to do that is to let him go and let him recover (on his own). He has to prove he has beat all his illnesses before you can take him back. Otherwise, it will be a false recovery and you will be used again.