Hello Beauty !
Sorry, the explanation about the escort service and OW
is not clearer. Prior to the A, OW had been online looking
at porn and various other websites including one pertaining
to local "escort" services. I suspect that he had may have
later utilized one of them but never have known for sure.
He met OW months later on a "friend finder" type website
("Millionaire Match") began talking via phone, email, TM,
eventually met in person, and then she moved here. (was
moving here for job already, prior to meeting WH)

Not that's she's honest by any means, but I have talked to
her a few times, and it sounds like her purpose in hooking
up with OW was to know someone here since she's new in town,
to have someone to do things with for "fun", to have someone
"take care" of her, and "to be with someone who could help
her have the lifestyle she wanted to live" (she thought WH
had big $$$). I guess she is probably getting those things,
although WH is not a millionaire (or even close) and has
himself some pretty big debts and bills ! (and sounds like
she does pretty well financially herself since she has a
house, car, truck and horses).

WH has had a low libido problem as long as I've known him,
probably at least partly due to the anti-depressants he's
been on for years. I think part of his attraction to OW
was her just being "someone different" and perhaps this
gave him the "higher level of excitement" that Jennifer
had mentioned. Can tell you though, with meds giving him a low libido and causing him to fall asleep early at night, it's not THAT exciting !

I know WH hasn't been with us both during the A, as he's
not been with me since he began looking at porn, so no
chance of my being exposed to anything-

WH does have a LOT of things to work on- and he is very
definitely a different man than when I first met and married
him, as he's become progressively more ill.
I have known this, done lots of research into his disorders
and consulted often with my sister, (is a psychologist),
so my rose-colored glasses have been off for a long time
when it comes to his issues and illness.
He's had obsessive- compulsive disorder and depression for many years and was more recently diagnosed as bipolar. (Not sure how they got "in the mix" but he's not a sex or drug addict)
There are good therapies and meds which can "control" these well enough for WH to live a pretty "normal" life, (although they can't be cured) but still is a long road, with meds and therapy likely needed for life.
I can live with the that and never considered his illnesses
as a "deal breaker", but won't live with the infidelity-
that IS a deal breaker !

I have never contacted OW, and have tried to avoid talking
to her after a couple of very unpleasant run-ins, and am
not going to contact WH. I saw that he tried to call me
at work today, but did't take the call so he left a message
saying he had stopped at the house for some clothes and had
deposited money in our household account for some bills.
Also said he thought the closing on the land sale would be
next Wed or Thurs. and he would let me know the time/place.
And, I already have the paperwork ready that we are going
to sign, stipulating that any future bill either of us
run up is our own responsibility, as well as protecting my
car, so we can sign it right at the same time too.

Thanks for the support and thoughts- venting here, my IC,
journal, prayer and good friends have been my "saving grace"
throughout this tough time.
Have things calmed down with your crazy OW ?
Slammed

I reiterate the same things again, Slammed: you are way too involved in his problems, his anti-depressants, bipolar problems, addictions or non-addictions, etc., etc. Justifying them, explaining them, defending them, worrying about them. Please understand: I was in much the same sitch with a pornography addicted husband who was a depressive on anti-ds, and also stroke disabled, with post-polio syndrome, too. It's easy, in such circumstances, to turn into a nurse/therapist rather than a wife/companion.

Like many people on these boards, you will pay any price to glue your world back together again. In general, this is a laudable trait. But when you do the paying for someone who doesn't value you enough to keep his zipper up -- you are setting yourself up for the same crisis a year or two down the road. You have to draw a line in the sand.

To tell him moving in with the OW is "the last straw" is somewhat silly. To any reasonable person, the last straw would have occurred long ago. It's as if you are telling him you are a doormat.

You need to clear your head with Plan B. You need to start having your own life, and let him solve his own problems, or not.

Please don't talk to him again. For any reason. Get an intermediary and go to Plan B.

Thanks, A.M.,
It's true it is easy to get caught up being a "care-giver"
when you just want to be a spouse/companion.
My IC has been very helpful in helping me distinguish
between "enabling" and being supportive and caring, but it's still a fine line between the two-

I very much love my H, have loved much about our life
together and believe we have enormous potential to turn
things around into a satisfying marriage for us both, but
I'm not willing to do it at any price- I've already put
in 10000 percent effort, and now it's H's turn if there's
to be any chance of getting back together.

One thing that's been very interesting to me in WH's IC
has been his saying that he feels like there's things he'd
like to do, but can't, because he's "married". I thought
about that, and come up with the completely opposite answer
as I've continued to do the things I've done same as when
single (things with friends and family, activities, hobbies)
and never felt like there were things I was missing out on
or couldn't do "married". I think this is partly why I've
seemed to do better when seperated than WH- he has no family
here, has very few friends (none close), isn't good at
"entertaining" himself, and doesn't have much in the way
of hobbies or activities-
My IC says women usually do better than men in this case
and it does seem to be true !

I am a pretty patient and tolerant person, but even I am
running out of "steam" at times because of the limbo that
is unavoidable in this situation. Seems like no matter how
much I detach and move on with my life as I always have,
you can only "move on" so much when you are still married
and have obligations and joint issues.
I feel pretty "clear" after all the time I've had to work
things out in my head, but when one of these little "drama"
issues come up or I just get in a particular mood, I do
suffer some "setback" and go back through all the thoughts,
worries, and have to "rehash" things again, which is tiring.

I've said all I have to say to WH, and he definitely knows
how I feel, what I think, and where I stand. I will have to
briefly see him at the land sale next week, and we'll sign
the financial "stipulation" as well, then I can either hand
or mail him the PBL.
I don't have anyone to be an intermediary, but since our
only necessary contact would be in regards to finances, that
can be kept to email and very short and to the point-

Slammed

Ok Slammed, I can see that your are not giving up on H no matter what. Your very good at fielding every question and opinion. So, all I can say is I hope you are making the right choice and will not be disapointed if H can't turn himself around. I'm just afraid that H can't even deal with himself let alone have the strength to rebuild a marriage. That takes time,effort,love,devotion,trust and honesty. H has not shown any of these abilities so far. If you don't want to do Plan B right now then that is up to you. If you think that you would rather stay in Plan A, then I hope it works. I will support your decision, after all, I did not give up on my M and we are working it out. H is very lucky, even if he can't see it right now. Good Luck my friend.

Thanks for asking about my sitch with OW. So far nothing has happened since she claimed to the police that H broke RO by calling her at work with profanity and threats. But, she always pops up just when you think she's finally stopped. We are just waiting to see what she does next. There is no way either one of us will have contact with her, that's what she want's. She HATES being ignored by H, so I suspect she is not done yet. H has been ill and I thought it might be panic attacks caused by the OW, but H went to the Dr. today and he thinks it's his Gallbladder. Good to know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, but not good for H (painful)

Good morning Beauty <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I don't want to have to give up on H or the M, but there
will come a time when I will if he doesn't end the A and
devote full effort to recovery, as well as the counseling
and whatever he needs to do to get his issues under control.

I don't know a way to say in advance exactly when that time
will come, but I am less tolerant and less willing to wait
the longer the A continues. Of course, if WH files for D
and follow through with that, that'll do the trick too.

I don't want to do Plan A further (not sure if you were
saying it would be better to stay in A ?) and am ready to
go into B next week as soon as the land sale is over.
Until then, I am not contacting WH and am trying to avoid
him contacting me. Is easy over the weekend, as he is with
OW and doesn't have a way to try to call anyway.

Hope that your H will soon be feeling better. I'm sure
the stress of dealing with OW's antics must be hard on
both of you, health-wise and emotionally too.

Also hope that the OW will let things be. Giving no
attention to her and presenting a totally united front
(you and H) should give her the message that she is not
going to get anywhere, and hopefully she realizes she's
going to ger herself into legal trouble too, if she doesn't
stop.
During the time that my WH was home and attempting to break it off with OW (Jan-Feb) I had a taste of how this OW acted when she didn't get WH's attention and don't look forward to dealing with her if he does go to NC. I think she felt WH pulling away, knew he was with and hated it, so she called our house often- sometimes with her
number blocked (I had by then gotten Caller ID, and would
not answer anything blocked or her number calling), to the
point that one night she called 13 times in one hour.
When I accidentally picked up on her calling one night, she
"blasted" me with insults and ugly comments (how "pitiful
and pathetic I was to want H back, how he'd never love me
like he loved her, how he wanted to marry her, how I never
contributed anything to the M", etc.), then left more
long nasty messages when I hung up on her. A week later
I got a package in the mail with all the cards and letters
WH had given her, plus a package of graphic photos with a
nasty note- so NOT a real balanced person, and definitely
clingy, needy and desperate.

Best wishes for a good weekend
Slammed

Hi Slammed,

Thanks for your concern about my WH's health. Yes the stress get's very high around here sometimes and makes it hard for us. Before H went to see the doctor yesterday, I asked him very nicley if he would have the Dr. do a test for STD's. He didn't even blink an eye and said yes right away. He told me again how sorry he was about how much he had hurt me and how awful he felt that I would have to worry about STD's. It is full cooperation like that, that makes me feel H truly want's to rebuild our M and if we stick together, we can beat OW's antics and survive the A.

How are you feeling? You have alot of stress too. I am glad that you are going to plan B. I just feel that it is the right thing to do in order to get your H out of the fog. He needs to start living in the real world and get help for himself. He needs to go to the doctor and tell them to re check his meds. Sometimes the AD meds do the opposite and make people worse, and even worse if mixed with other meds. His IC should be monitoring that.

I think that doing Plan B is the only way your H will take you seriously. It is worth a try. You have tried everything else. You have a 50/50 chance, so I would go ahead and gamble. It just might do the trick.

Don't you hate how the WS makes the mess and the BS ends up cleaning it up? I hate playing games and life is to short.

Beauty~
I'm so glad that your H is cooperative and really making
the effort to show you he's sincere at restoring your M.
Glad he has come out of the "fog" to see real life again
and is lucky that you are there and willing to work with
him too. Can't remember from earlier posts, but how long
did the A last ?

I'm feeling tired but pretty good today- partly the stress
of the WH situation, and partly just being busy at work, as well as things that I could improve on like eating better, more water, vitamins, exercise, etc. I'm trying to do better
with all that, as well as using some "relaxation" techniques
I got from IC, and just relaxing, fun with friends, and
getting more sleep !

I definitely do hope Plan B will be the "jolt" WH needs to
get out of the fog, end the A, work on his own recovery,
and that of our M- it would be SO nice for him to have
a better quality of life, finally! He has tried to get
some relief and help previously- was diagnosed back in 2000
with depression and had tried numerous AD's and therapy two
times previously, but not much help.
Finally, when he started with the psychiatrist he now sees,
(in January) they did more tests and screenings, reviewed his meds, and realized he had been mid-diagnosed and is actually bipolar, and that the AD's had probably actually
made him worse (or at least had no helpful effect).
Now that he's hopefully got the right diagnosis and type of
meds, it'd be great if he could start to really get himself
together. He sees the Dr about every 2-3 weeks to see how
he is doing and to adjust the meds and dosage. Now that I
think of that, I think he had an appointment today...
He also goes to weekly counseling, which started out to be
just working on his issues and then after the A resumed
turned more towards MC. I have felt very frustrated with
that though, like WH was wanting to use it to find reasons
and excuses for his A and negatives about our M, so have
discontinued going with him in hopes he'll go back to just
working on HIS issues.

I work tomorrow, have some errands and shopping to do, will
work on the yard and house, and try to think of something
fun as well. Hope your weekend is good
Slammed

My H's affair lasted three years with a former co-worker that was 10 years younger than him. I had no idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really don't know how he found the time. He was home every night and weekends. Our kids were two and three at the time. Amazing how a spouse can live a double life right under your nose and have no clue. Makes me feel stupid that I didn't figure it out. After I found out is when all the signs started to come to me. So many I couldn't count. It all started to make sense. But, I trusted him completely and never dreamed that he would cheat on me. Some wake up call huh? Talk about getting slammed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It does come as such as shock when we found out the H we
have trusted and never suspected has betrayed us !!
I would never have thought my H would have done anything like this either ~
I saw a few clues along the way, but wasn't until OW called
me in October and I found out lots of details that it all
fell together and made sense. Althoug it was awful to find
out about it all, I felt a little sense of relief, knowing
I wasn't nuts or just "paranoid".

The weekend was okay. I tried to stay busy with various
things but couldn't help but feel some sadness at thinking
of things H and I would have been doing on such a sunny,
warm weekend.
I realized it probably wasn't a real great weekend for WH and OW though since Wh's court date is tomorrow and he is no doubt very nervous, anxious and depressed right now. I feel some anxiety about it too, since Wh pays the bigger
"chunk" of our bills and expenses and also carries our health insur. so hope he does not lose his job ! Feel sort of sad as well that I'm "out of the loop" as far as knowing much of what's going on and am not going to court with him ~
I suspect OW is- so maybe she'll be mistaken for a hooker and arrested while there (she looks the part) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ha, ha

Not that it matters, but thought some about OW being at the
house with WH and wondered if she's really just staying
"temporarily" or has moved in. Before WH moved out, I did
see he had some appointments with realtors, so could have
been helping OW find a new place, but who knows. She was
just renting, and it's disappointing to know she must now
be buying- I wish she'd just move back to where she came
from !
No matter why or how long, I hope them being together will
help WH see some "everyday" real life, as opposed to the
"fantasy" life of A, and that each of their habits will
drive the other nuts, leading to some big LB's. !

Didn't expect WH would try to contact me on the weekend
since he's now under OW's 24hour surveillance, but he did
leave a message later Friday to say our "closing" on the
land sale is supposed to be Thurs afternoon, so will plan
to make that the last time to see him and can either give
him the PBL then or mail it to his house. Any feel that
either would be better than the other ?

Will try to post my draft tonight. I was in the middle of
posting it last night when I lost my connection, and don't
have time to do it from work~
May need to change my content some-
Jean posted an excellent example of how the WS may view
Plan B and the BS (on Eav's thread) but it's made me feel
confused about the PBL telling the WH that I still love
him and want to work on the M, Versus knocking the cake
eater "off the fence" by making him feel I am no longer
interested in him or recovering the M. (make sense ??)
Seems more like the 180's ??

Slammed

I was skimming your post on Hurting's thread and was thinking...

Do you think your WH is so INADEQUATE that he can't make it without your help? Have you ever ADMIRED him? You seem to take such a nurturing, caretaking role...

Am I reading this right?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hey Mimi- welcome back (hope you had a good vacation)

Don't know if you had a chance to "catch up" on my thread,
but you didn't miss much- just that I had called WH one
night last week to give him the amount of a bill per his
request, and OW had answered his cell phone, hung up on me,
then called back to our home phone three times, hanging up
each time I answered.
My "read" on it was that she was now staying at WH's house
and that he was likely asleep so she was snooping to see
who was calling on his phone, then called back to see who
it was calling (as you know, she is very paranoid).

WH stopped by next day, and when he asked why I hadn't gotten back to him with the info, and I said I tried but OW had hung up the phone he was suprised and not pleased- apparently had been asleep and didn't know anything about it. Told me she is staying there "briefly" while in process of moving out of her rental house to a new place, which may or may not be true-
Was hurtful and I felt upset at first, just thinking about
OW being there with OUR furniture and sleeping in OUR bed
(really YUK !) but after more thinking about it and venting
here realized it didn't really have much effect on the
overall picture, and actually might be good the longer she
is there since it's more of a dose of real "everyday" life
instead of just the "fantasy" world.

Since then, I've been avoiding WH's calls in preparation for
Plan B. He left me a message to let me know the closing on our land sale is scheduled for this Thurs so I'll see WH there, and could either hand him the PBL there, or mail it (which is better ?)

Today is WH's court date in regards to the DUI.
I know he is probably very nervous and scared about it, and
I feel anxious about it myself, especially since some of the
consequences could affect me too.(financially) I believe
that the lawyer, DA and judge were to meet "in chambers"
to discuss the situation and the letters from WH's counselor
and psychiatrist (they wrote about how his mental illness
played into the DUI), discuss sentencing options, and then
if all agreeable proceed to the actual sentencing and have
it all over with. (the court part)

In regards to ADMIRATION (which I feel is a big need for my
WH) I feel like I've always tried to show pride, respect
and admiration for WH. Not to the point of "overdoing",
but I would tell him I was really proud of him when he had
accomplishments at work, recognition for job projects, or
got a raise. Took him out to eat when he got a new job,
told him I was pleased for him when he started going to
counseling, and things like that.
I don't think he is inadequate (not sure exactly what you
mean) or that he "can't do without me" as he has lived on
his own in college and then also since I've known him
(we lived in different states when we met, and the early
part of our relationship was "long distance") and wouldn't
want him to be that helpless or just with me to have clean
house, laundry, meals cooked, etc (he can go live with his
Mom if that's what he wants <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would agree that I am a nurturing, care-taking person
(probably should have been in the medical field or at least
a Mom !) and have always had a lot of empathy and caring
for people and animals.

I am feeling pretty good so far this week. Had my IC on
Saturday (usually do leave there feeling good), and decided
to do better on my diet, exercise, getting more sleep, back
on vitamins, etc for my own "self care". I'm super busy at
work right now covering for a co-worker who had surgery,
so don't have much time to worry/think about things there
and am continuing to work on things (taxes, etc) at home.

Slammed

Yea, Slammed. I read about the cellphone incident yesterday and saw my former self in you. I so used to try to figure out what the waywards were up to. Most, if not all, my surmising about what was REALLY going on has proven to be INCORRECT..some to the good..some to the bad...That will be the value of Plan B for you..to release you from their crazy, sordid world.

I would hand him the letter just to make sure that he gets it and not that nutty OW of his.

About the inadequacy, I was referring to the posts where you seemed to be saying that he NEEDED you there during court and during his counseling sessions. I guess you just meant that you feel the need to offer support by your presence.



SUPER! GOOD FOR YOU!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Mimi.
I do seem to be following in "your footsteps" both as far
as the way I've felt/acted and the script my WH has followed
as well. Hope I'll come out as well at the end ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I do sometimes try to figure out what is going on with
WH and OW based on the little "bits" that I know, which I'm
sure leads me to some very inaccurate conclusions at times.
Don't know why I care- as I know it isn't going to change or
make a difference with the A anyway (what I know or not).

You're right- it's probably a good idea to give the PBL
directly to WH. If OW is "bold" enough to answer his cell
phone she probably would get into his mail too.

I did feel like my presence helped, by way of support, at
WH's IC, and that maybe that helped him continue to go when
he might not have stuck with it, so feel a little sad about
not being involved anymore but it was too frustrating to me
and made me feel like it had become "enabling" for WH.
For his legal situation, I've been pretty much uninvolved
in the whole thing, but were we together, I would have been
there with him today, so not being just reminds me of how
different things are now and that makes me sad. He's in court right now-

Slammed

Had been nervous about my WH's court appearance yesterday
so wanted to give a quick update.
WH left me a message late yesterday telling me the hearing
had gone pretty much "as expected". Said the re-test of his
blood sample had showed a lower blood alcohol level than the
original, so the charges were reduced, and some of the
associated charges dropped. He was given 50 hrs community service time (which is already done), was ordered to attend
40 hrs "alcohol awareness" classes (already done), had to
pay a hefty fine, and then had to choose between doing a
work release program for 30 days (work in day, jail type
corrections center at night) or an "alternate program"
where he would work full-time hours M-F doing whatever
community service work assigned, but be home at night and
on weekends. He'll also be on unsupervised probation 2 yrs.
He is terrified of the jail option, so wants to do the
alternate program, but is going to have to talk to his boss
to see if they will allow him to keep his job while he does
this. To do so, would have to keep bringing in business and
handle his accounts (does commercial lending) by working
at night and on weekends.
He sounded okay and somewhat relieved to have this over,
although talking to his boss will be tough and don't know
how he'll take it- WH still could lose his job which will
cause tremendous financial problems for both of us.
Also, won't be a "piece of cake" to do this alternate "job"
for 45 days, as he'll have to drive about 50 miles each
way to the neighboring county to do it. (that's where the
DUI ocurred). Also with gas prices it'll be costly, and
put lots of miles on the car.... but part of the penalty-

At the end of Wh's message he said "I knew that you cared
about what happened and were probably praying for me, and
I appreciate that you've always been supportive to me".
Also said he "knew I was mad about OW being at his house but wanted to tell me again that she is just staying there temporarily while finding a new place to live as the owner of her rented house decided to sell it." Then said "things
might really change when she was out of the house".

I know better than put much stock in what he said as far as
her being there temporarily, etc. (Whatever !!!) but did
feel nice that he at least acknowledged that he had gotten
my support and knew I had prayed for him (yes, always have).
Sure wish HE would do some praying cuz he sure does need
some direction to end this A and get his act together.

Last thing he said was confirming the closing on the sale
of our land. I thought it was to be tomorrow, but he said
it's NEXT Thursday, so either he messed up the date or I
misunderstood. At least that gives me time to wrap up the
PBL and my "stipulation" that he is going to sign to protect
me from his cc bills and my car that will be paid off after
the land sale.
I did get a note back from Jennifer- will try to give an
update on that and post my letter tomorrow. I am making an
effort to get more sleep, etc. and couldn't have picked a
better time to start- my co-worker is out following surgery
so I'm alone handling all the "walk in" business, my own
clients and hers as well, and have been swamped and very
exhausted at night-
Slammed

Slammed:

Your WH is a CLASSIC CAKE-EATER....

You might find it helpful to read StillHere's Post on Eav's new thread about the value of Plan B..

It speaks to how the cake-eater functions...

What a BIG FAT LIE about the OW living with him temporarily. Anyways,he's a married man. There's NO EXCUSE for her living there at all. Period.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh Slammed. OMG. Reading your posts has sent shivers up and down my spine.

Its like reading my WH (other than the DUI and OW living there) MY WH has moved in with OW. He sufffers depresssion too, and when I see him next Im gonna tell him about how some ADs make it worse depending on the kind of Depression and also because of the other pain tabs he is on.

Anyway - BEST OF LUCK FOR PLAN B. I think IM ognna have to there soon too. Off to find Eav's thread about value of plan B (thanks Mimi)

Justine

Here's Still's post that I personally love...regarding the value of Plan B:

------------------------------------------------------------
For a couple of reasons.

For years you were depositing LU's in WS's LB. You were supplying some of his EN's. For whatever reason, either they sought it out or someone sought them out, but they began getting LU deposits from the OP WHILE they were getting deposits from you.

While they are carrying on with two people, the WS is pretty happy...guilty...but happy, their LB is really filling up!

Then the BS stops fulfilling their WS's EN's...boom, half their LU supply is gone...now it is entirely up to the OP to fill their LB...and let me tell you, they are a poor substitute...why? because the WS found them at a time they only needed to fill in the gaps of missing EN's. They were not responsible for fulfilling ALL their most important EN's...

So there is pressure on the OP...they've got to step up the EN fulfillment if they want to keep that *catch* they have. And this is no small feat, but near impossible for the selfish likes of OP...

So the Taker comes out, and the A begins it's demise...

What's wrong in A land...it used to be so easy? WS's LoveBank is dimishing. WS is expecting more, and the OP is resenting it...well then...go back to your BS if you are so unhappy...

And there is goes.

Should you call or contact him...boom, a deposit of Love Units...a little longer time until tthe A feels the effects of the depleted Love Bank...

Thanks, Mimi.
I've been following Eav's new thread and think there has
been some great information and inspirations for Plan B
there- all very helpful and makes sense too.

I don't know whether I believe WH or not, as far as OW just
staying there "temporarily" while looking for a new place
(and that sounds pretty open-ended anyway since it can take
awhile to find a place, do the financing, etc.) but in a way
I'm thinking it might just be a good thing so they can LB
each other like crazy and get a dose of "real life".

By now OW must already be seeing that WH isn't all "fun and
games" (what she seemed to want) since he's stressed by the
legal stuff, still moody to some degree despite the meds, falls asleep early and has reduced libido and "ability" due to the meds. It's also probably not as much fun now that
he's selling an asset(our land) to pay off his big credit card bills and has been spending far less (I see his credit card bills) so can't be her "sugar daddy" (and isn't the big wheel he must have sounded like on "Millionaire Match" the website where they "met").
It's getting ready to get even better since he is apparently
going to be working 40 hr weeks on his "community service"
sentence (hour drive each way) and also tries to keep up his
regular job-
Maybe it's time OW got on the computer to meet someone more
"fun", and hopefully this time it won't be someone els'es
H. !

I liked your comment about no excuse for OW to be living
there at all too- remember how he's told me several times
that "90 percent of what I think's going on with OW isn't
happening"?? My response has always been, "well the 10pct
that is happening is enough to destroy your life and our M".
The "fogged" sure do have strange logic...

Juzzie- Sorry you are in the same "boat" but you will sure
find lots of help and support here. Seems that my WH has
had some similiarities with a couple of the WS's here, so
it's good to know you and I have much in common and can
vent and relate well with each other.
It's true that some anti-depressants can be either totally
ineffective or make worse some other mental/emotinal illness
which was the case of WH- they made him either more down
or just didn't help at all. Now that he is on the correct
"mood stablizer" meds for the bipolar disorder the AD's do
help him to have less "up and down" moodiness. If there was
only a good "FOG" remover pill out there !
Slammed

Well all, I went against my better judgement tonight and
now I am paying for it.
Got a call from WH late this afternoon at work and because
I had emailed him some info about our taxes and bills, I
picked up expecting he was replying to that message.
Instead, he said he had IC tonight and wondered if I was
willing to come. Didn't know what to make of it, but said
I guessed I would come. Stupid, I know, but I guess part of
me was curious and part of me hoped maybe something had
changed for the better.
Got there and WH was already in with IC, and was updating
her on his court hearing this past week. I knew some of how
it had gone since WH had left me a message with some info,
but heard the rest. Then IC asked how things were going with "us". WH didn't say much- just that things were still
pretty much the "same". We both said that we felt there
wasn't too much to say because we'd pretty much "said it
all" and neither of was changing our position or feelings.
WH's "position" of course, if that he wants/needs to be
"alone and on his own" and that it "has nothing to do with
OW". Said "things could change in two days, two weeks, or
two months" but right now all he knew was that this was how he feels. Said he felt very frustrated that I won't "accept this" and accept that he wants to move on with his life and
not be married.
I said that as long as WH is involved with OW and especially
know that OW lives with him, I did understand that there was
nothing I could do or say to change his mind, but that I
don't believe or "accept" that OW and the A have "nothing to do with it" because during their breakup (during the
brief false recovery a couple months ago) he had been a
totally different person.
He went on with some very typical "WS Script", such as his
saying that I was trying to hang on to thinking we had once
had a good marriage, fun, compatability or things going well
but that he didn't think it "had ever been good", that he
doesn't need me or OW and just wants to be left alone, and
that "frankly, he wished both of us would just leave him
alone", and that he had "bent over backwards" to try to be
thoughtful of my feelings, give me time to "adjust", had
tried to help by agreeing to pay off my car and credit card
(I said No, YOU aren't paying off anything of mine- we are
selling OUR lot and paying off some of both our bills so
don't act like you're doing some big favor to me). He also
said he'd not pushed me, but that we needed to get our house
up for sale, needed to move on with things.
I said "easy for you to say when you have the fancy new
house with our nice things, live in girlfriend there, and
much more income to work with" but then just didn't know
what else to say.
IC, who previously has at least encouraged WH not to rush
into anything, didn't say much of anything, but asked WH
what he felt was next step ? He told her we had done the
D paperwork several months ago and felt we just needed to
finish it, get a court date and "move on". I said "it
wasn't going to be that simple since the paperwork had
since expired and we'd have to start over". Then WH said
"it wasn't expired, that he'd gotten a phone call today
telling him we had an extension on it." I was stunned, as I thought the paperwork had expired more than a month ago,
didn't know you even could get "an extension", and since
obviously they don't just do an extension for no reason,
knew he must have done whatever it took to do so, without
telling me. All this while he's been calling me, friendly,
asking me out to eat and keeping contact...
Felt like the biggest stab in the back I've ever gotten-

Time was then up and IC asked if I'd like to come back with
WH next week- I said NO, that I was tired of the session
being WH's "enabling" session to justify his affair with
all kinds of excuses, finding all negatives to me and our M,
and making me feel "battered".

Walked to the parking lot, and I asked WH when he was going
to tell me about the paperwork extension and why did he do
it when all the while he had been smiling to my face, asking
me to eat, calling almost daily and sometimes acting like he
might want to give us a "fresh start" ?
He said he had called to ask about an extension back when
he realized it was going to expire, but didn't hear anything
back until today, and was told we had 30 more days to finish
it up and file. (the time of the paperwork expiring is very
close to the time that WH moved out- quite coincidental !)
I don't believe it would have happened that way however,
I'd think he would have to have done paperwork or some kind
of official thing to get an extension.

As far as him calling, being friendly, and asking me out
he said that was just "being cordial", and that I "took it
wrong". He said he "really does mean it when he says he just
wants to be left alone" and that"OW is moving out of his
house very soon and that's going to be done with". I said
OW moving out doesn't mean your A is over- it went on for
months before with you living in seperate places, and he
said "No, that is was over and when she moved out was the
"end" of it, but that he didn't want to work on our M,
didn't want to be married, didn't want to keep talking about
it and was tired to dragging things out.
For once, I was at a loss for words, and just felt totally
"blank". Could't think of anything to say, or even feel at
the time, as I think I've said everything, done everything
and tried everything. WH seemed tired and stressed out too
and in a hurry to leave- I drove off and bawled all the way
home, which hasn't happened for a really long time.

As I drove home, WH called. Said he didn't like to fuss
and fight but that "I frustrated him." I said "likewise".
Said my biggest frustration was his being so unwilling to
make the effort and trouble to make changes, build back
trust, take a "fresh start" with us and our M, and his lack
of honesty about situation with OW. Said I had tried so hard, been through so much, and truly loved and believed in him and us but couldn't do it alone. Said I'd loved him
and us enough for it to be worth while and was sorry it
apparently didn't mean that much to him. Said I'd let him
go because that was what he wanted, not because I felt it
was right thing to do or would ever think so.

Funny thing, as we hung up from what I was considering my
"goodbye" to him (to be followed by PBL) was WH saying
"we could talk more about it tomorrow". ???????
He never will talk, made it clear in IC that he isn't at all
willing to work on anything, says he wants D, and then says
this- I don't get it. Try to cut him loose (what he says
he wants) and he doesn't go...?

Tonight, I got two calls that showed WH's home phone number.
He never calls me from the land line, so I suspected it was
again OW. Possibly she got into his phone and saw the number
so was checking to see who he had called-
But, yeah, it's so much nicer living there, with her...
and her paranoia (major sarcasm)

Is there anything new here , or just more of his "usual"?
Why ask me to go to IC ?
Takes on OW moving out and A over ?
Why the extension and rush to D?
Still do the PBL, or will it just be a "relief" to WH ?

Mostly, is there ANT hope still left ?
What to do if he follows through with the D paperwork ??

SO tired, and must work tomorrow, will check back then-
Slammed









I know WH could be lying about OW moving out soon, and
that her moving out does not mean the A is "over", so
maybe this is all the same "ole" thing, and still a
smokescreen to cover for the A, but part of me also
had to wonder if they really are breaking up and WH just
really and truly doesn't want to be married or with me ?

As it seems to be a change from his mood and demeanor of
the past few weeks/days, I really wonder if something has
happened/changed to bring on this big "rush" (again) to sell
the house, get divorced, "move on with life".
Made me wonder if he was "hanging on" until his court date
passed in case he "needed me" for comfort, support and help
and now that it's over and he's not as scared and nervous
he can "blow me off" ?
Or, if OW is putting big pressure on him to D ?

I heard oodles of foggy statements like, "I wish both of you would just leave me alone," or "Maybe I should just move away from both of you and be by myself."

IMO, his continuing to lie, evade, waffle, be unhappy and unkind, are all good things. Life is not perfect in the land of sleaze. He is growing discontented.

I have no guesses as to a time frame, but I would venture to say the A is probably at least in the beginning of the end. It always takes much longer to disintegrate than we would want, but I'd bet my hat he is not going to be one of the few who beat the odds.

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