(((slammed))))

Good luck with the job interview! I've got my fingers AND my toes crossed (pretty tricky and a little painful..lol) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Slammed:

Have you been reading any of our posts?

You made all those ASSUMPTIONS about what's going on with your WH again...as if you didn't listen..as if you are not getting it...

ALL THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT I MADE ABOUT MY WHAT MY H WAS DOING WHEN HE WAS WAYWARD WERE INCORRECT..I was basing my assumptions on who he was when he was my H..as a WH, he was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT....HE WAS AN ALIEN BEING....THE WH IS NOT YOUR H!!!

(((((Slammed))))

LET HIM GO, SLAMMED!!!

I've about said all that I can say to ya, hon..all I know to say to ya...and I am very SAD for you that you are not getting this....

I wish you the BEST on your interview..THAT IS FANTASTIC that you got called back. HOLD YOUR HEAD UP!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks ChaCha and Mimi, for the good wishes on the job
interview. I applied for several other positions yesterday
and today, so hopefully this will get some momentum going..
I'll keep ya posted.

Mimi~ Yes, I have read all that all of you wrote and I do
understand. I'm not trying to my assumptions or speculate
on WH here, I'm just trying to vent on the "gut feeling"
I've had lately, MY worries and concerns, the facts that
have led me to have doubts, etc. Perhaps I should limit my
venting to journaling since it seems that doing it here
tends to make everyone think I do nothing but worry about
Wh all the time ?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EAV- Thanks for your ideas. I have already blocked all the
numbers I can since I am not able to change the home phone
number. Can't prevent WH or OW from calling from some other
number, but at least it'll make it a lot more trouble !
(not that WH ever tries to call anyway).I also never answer
any calls from "unknown" or "private" callers.
I can't avoid hearing the message if I'm in the house, as
it plays out loud as it's recorded-
I can't change the cell number since my phone's associated
with his work phone, but once I have the money, I can get
my own new phone and number.

A.M.~ I like and understand the analogies. I agree that you
have to realize that Plan B is not foolproof or guaranteed
to work for everyone. I recognize it as a "last ditch" plan
and as having the benefit of letting the BS feel like they
did all they could, whether it works or not. I personally
would never be able to consider any result other than a
reconciliation as a "success" for me, (not that you said it would be) but at least would find some comfort in feeling that I tried everything possible..

I really would like to "take it up a notch" and shock my
WH , if it's even possible. (nothing ever seems to "faze"
him). Have I lost all "leverage" with that by it being
so long since Plan A, so long since I did anything to add
to his lovebank, and so much time passing that has probably
taken those good points away ?
I too have told my WH, straight to his face, that I "let him
go" (long time ago) and also told him in an IC session that
I remember well that "we'd be DONE, if he moved out to "his"
house", but WH didn't seem the least bit surprised, worried,
or shocked, like yours did Mimi.

Heading off to the gym, and the cloudy, windy and cooler
weather has just arrived.
Slammed

But I consistently backed up MY WORDS with ACTIONS....

Yes, I goofed but went right back out into the DARKNESS...

Don't journal about HIM, Slammed. We are encouraging you to not even think about him or what he is doing because there is no way that you can REALLY KNOW. Whenever I started thinking about my H, I would literally shake my head, trying to pretend that he did not even exist.

Again I say, what I presumed, what I reasoned about him was AABSOLUTELY WRONG. I never in a million years would have guessed that he would have done many of the things that he has since told me that he did while he was gone....

mimi,

no matter what anyone says to me, i can't push the thoughts of my H out of mind unless i am occupied with tasks that don't allow me much free thinking time (like when i'm at work)even when i am working in the yard, cleaning the house, cutting the grass, walking the dogs....or just driving

i imagine that it's very hard for slammed right now since she has so much free time on her hands

some of the thoughts are good....good memories that make me sure of wanting my H back...some thoughts make me question WHY i would want him back after all of the pain he has caused me and how heartless he has been to the one person who has loved him unconditionally, and some are thoughts about how things might be between him and OW....but it does help when i share these thoughts here sometimes just to vent, sometimes to hear others experiences, and it always helps so much to be reminded from you Mimi that you imagined things bewteen your H and OW that were MUCH different than reality...your thoughts were much BETTER than the reality they were living

i have stopped posting alot of my thoughts and feelings here though for the same reasons as slammed stated above....and i think it's too bad that we both have to stop doing something that we had found helpful to how we are dealing with this situation.....mimi your way of understanding and helping have been wonderful

slammed

just checking in on you

Thanks for checking on me, EAV- had trouble with my computer
constantly diconnecting yesterday and finally gave up on
trying it the rest of the day ! Did apply for a couple of
more jobs and do some work out in the yard, so the day was
okay.
Hope to meet a friend for lunch today, and then have several
errands to run later- looks like it's going to be a nice
fall day too.

No further calls from OW, no emails from WH since the sitch
on Monday. The more I thought about it, the more it made me
mad that I had to spend money to block calls from that trash
OW, so I decided I'm adding it to WH's PART of the bills !

Had several dreams about him/them this week- one that WH
had "blasted" OW for calling here and they had gotten into
a big fight (probably wishful thinking), another that OW
had threatened to move away if WH didn't file for D (which
is a possibility), and one last night that WH and OW had
gotten "engaged" while in Las Vegas, and WH had bought her
a really nice, big ring there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
No wonder I'm feeling tired today with all this going on in
my head at night !!

Realized yesterday that back when I had looked in the court
website it had said we were scheduled for the initial D
meeting with a court "facilitator" on October 4- however I
have not been advised of anything by WH or anyone else, and
never received any kind of notice, so I am not planning on
going down there or doing anything unless something changes
between now and then.
I don't see how I could get in any trouble for not showing if I have been given no notice - ???

I also remembered that WH has attended, for the past several
years, an annual "Homebuilder's Assoc" conference during the
first week of October, so looked it up and found out that
it is Oct 4-8 this year, at one of the Mtn. resort towns.
So, I wonder if he might have changed the date or gotten an
extension in order to not interfere with his conference.
Otherwise, there must have either been an error on the part
of the court, WH was supposed to "notify" me and hasn't
"gotten around to it", or he's forgotten or confused about
the date ! With my luck, they'll change it to the 3rd- my
bday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> !!

Made me feel kinda sad to look up the conference info- it's
at WH's and I favorite resort- a beautiful place in a very
European style, ski resort town, where we have been many
times. I went went with him to the conference in 2004- had
a great time attending the big trade show, going to some of
the sessions, meals, and dinner/dance with him, as well as
going to the spa at the hotel. Last year, WH had called me
while he was there, said it wasn't as much fun and he wasn't
doing much while there, but I later had found out that OW
did come up and was there part of the time- ugh !

Slammed

Dear Slammed,

Sorry I haven't been able to post much recently - as you know, I started my new job on Monday and also because of my latest blow with WH (his deciding to get D after all), I have not been able to really read other people's threads because their pain so much reminds me of mine, and also because I was feeling so weak myself to advice anything that is positive and encouraging. I was thinking of you a lot though while I was going through difficult time!

I am very happy to hear about your job interview. How did it go? I will be praying for you to be yourself and to get this position! I know something good is now about to happen to you!

I analyze companies' financials, and every company has 'cycles' - there is no such thing that a company keep doing well forever. I try to think of us like that - just like it's impossible to be having good time all the time, it has to be impossible to be at the bottom of our 'cycles' forever, especially when we are trying so hard to get happier! This has to end..., this WILL end...

We both hope really hard that that means our WHs will come out of their fog and make a committment to our M, but only God knows what will happen. We may become EXTREMELY happy after we get divorced, we just do not know.... Well, we won't be happy for a while after we officially get divorced, but we never know what that might bring to us. And EVERYONE I have spoken to has PROMISED me that things WILL get better with time.

I know you are having hard time, but at the same time I know how strong you can be. You are 100 times better person than me, so I know you will find happiness you deserve soon.

Thinking of you,
Milk

Hey Milk- Good to hear from you. Glad you are liking the new
job ! My interview is for next week, will keep you posted.
I also applied for about seven other jobs this week-surely
something should come through soon !
Had a decent day- ran errands and enjoyed being out on a
really nice fall day. Was to meet a friend for a drink and
food tonight, but she's just called and isn't feeling well
so had to cancel the plans- maybe tomorrow !

I really don't know what to think about WH, and know better
than to try to figure much out anyway, but it really does
bother me to not know what has brought him to decide to file
the D paperwork again, now, after letting it expire before.
Seemed like the longer the A continued, the more it would
become less a "fantasy" and more reality, and that all the
"drama" with he and OW would have drastically lessened the
appeal, but hasn't seemed to work that way.

Did read something on a thread on DB though that really "hit
home"- and maybe helps makes sense of that- it was talking about the addiction theory in relation to affairs, and said that when the affair begins, the "feel good" chemical are just overflowing, the egos "bursting", and the WS feels like they have everything they have ever wanted, whether it
be sex, attention, companionship, someone to talk to, etc..
For someone who has been depressed, they feel better than
they have felt in ages, better than any of the meds could
make them feel, so they are easily "addicted" and believe
the OP is what is they have been missing and need to keep
feeling good. Later, when the excitement and newness of
the affair starts to rub off, the OP becomes more of a real
person and not so much fantasy, and things aren't so great,
the WS may still stay involved with them, despite the magic
being gone, just hoping to get that feeling back because it
was such a relief to them when it was happening.
That sure does sound like WH- and maybe explains a little
about why he keeps going back with her despite the games,
drama, paranoid, inmaturity, or likliness of a future ?

I agree with you that our efforts to make happy lives must
be going to pay off ONE of these days- surely we can't stay
in a "down" cycle forever !! Don't agree that I'm a better
person than you though- you have shown great strength, lots
of patience, love, and courage all along.
Hope your weekend is good - thinking of you too !
Slammed

I totally understand how you want to make sense of this - but I really believe our WHs (or any WS for that matter) are so emotionally unstable and they do not even know what they are doing, we can't possibly figure out what they are thinking.

When my husband began mentioning the big "D" word two years ago - he did not think of our "happy" memories at all. When I asked if they do not mean anything to him, he just said "let's just keep them as happy memories and move on". Well over the past several months when he wanted to come home, he asked me several times "don't you remember anything good and happy about us? Don't you remember our happy memories?", which I thought was very contradicting. My friend's co-worker recently got divorced. Her husband was like ours, in a sense that he was taking ADs and was possibly going through midlife crisis or something. So he filed, and she was devastated. Anyhow, during the process, he would email her to let her know of the court date and end it with "Love, XXX". How backward is this!? My girlfriend's husband had an affair and filed for divorce. He moved out and started to live with the new girlfriend. YET, he got jealous when he thought a guy was visiting my girlfriend (it was just her friend who was helping her fix something around the house, though) and yelled at her. He also complained that she did not "even try" to fight for their marriage while he was living with his girlfriend and abandoned his little daughter.

They are all so selfish and do not make sense. They use whatever the excuses that sound good and convenient to them at the moment, but they change all the time. They cannot be consistent.

Hang in there,
Milk

Glad to hear from you, Milk.
It is funny that the WS can have such "selective" memories
isn't it ? My WH is the same way- seems to remember nothing
but negatives, says nothing we did was "special" or "fun",
and says "none of the good times or memories matter", but
then when he was home (during what ended up being false
recovery) he said he "missed" things we used to do, our
special memories, appreciated all I did for him, that I had
believed in him and our marriage.
That, and lots of other things WH has done have certainly
been very "illogical" and true to "WS" form !

Tried to make the most of the weekend- had really warm and
beautiful weather so I mowed, trimmed, worked in my yard
and put out my fall decorations on the front porch. Also
did some laundry and housework, and watched a movie at a
friend's house last night.

Don't know if it has anything to do with last week's sitch
with OW calling here and me letting WH know, but there have
been no emails, no attempted calls, nothing from WH in a
week- the longest he's ever gone without any contact.
(no calls from OW either). Makes me relieved to some degree on one hand, and sad that he is so detached he isn't even trying on another. ??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Applied for another position this morning, will run a couple
errands this afternoon, and have rehearsal tonight, so the
day is passing quickly-

Slammed

Oh, something else I thought of over the weekend and left
out of my earlier post today (above)~

Am having trouble getting straight, in my head, a difference
between having the attitude of "letting go", and of "giving
up". ?? Can you help me get a better grasp of this ?

Examples below:
I know that I have to "let go" in order for WH to try to
have all his needs met by OW, in order for him to possibly
miss me and "us", and to see how life would be if we D.
The PBL expressed my "letting go", but the willingness and
belief that we could build a better life and marriage, IF
and WHEN he ended all involvement with OW.
Guess I have some confusion in that this sounds like I'm saying "I let go," but then it also says I am willing to
work on the marriage and still love WH, so isn't this kind
of contradictory ?

Seems like the recovered marriages here have all had in
common a situation of the BS "moving on", and showing that
they are going on without WH. Yet, I've also read that we
should not tell WS that we "give up" because it lets them
"off the hook" so to speak, lets them feel we think it's
"okay", and lets them feel they aren't the "bad guy".
How do you "move on" and show you are going on with your
life, but without giving the impression that you "give up"
and accept it ?
WH has, many times, told me I just need to "accept it",
"accept that it's over", "get a life", and "move on".

Not sure if I'm explaining this very well, but part of what
has made me think of it is the possibility that I will have
to go to the initial D meeting this week, where I will have
to meet with a court facilitator and WH.
Went to this same meeting last year after WH filed the first
set of paperwork. I was very sad and upset, but said little.
WH walked out with me to the car, said something lame like
"It didn't mean things were over with, didn't mean he didn't
still care about me and dog, but he just couldn't make up
his mind right then, didn't know what to do, and it was good
for us both to know how things would work".
Cried after I got to my car, and ignored a call from WH a
bit later. He left a message to say basically the same as
he'd said when we left, and that he would call me later to
see if I was okay. The A continued on, WH spent T-Giving
with OW, and they probably would have had a "lovely" Cmas
together too, had WH not gotten the DUI on Christmas Eve.
As you know we then had a brief "false recovery", with WH
moving home, going on meds and into IC, and his making what
seemed like some genuine effort for a little while, but then
going back with OW and moving out again.
About that same time the D paperwork expired, with nothing
having ever been done after that initial meeting. WH filed
a 30 day extension, but still did nothing, and it expired
again and was finally dismissed entirely.

I know that the whole circumstances, WH's "mindset", the
DUI, and a big variety of factors likely had to do with the
outcome of this, and that my reaction and response at the
D meeting may have had nothing to do with it, either way,
but I'm wondering about how to handle this now that we are
in Plan B ?? If I go, stay cool and collected, handle just
the business at hand, say nothing to WH and just leave, am
I showing "I'VE LET GO", but still love him and am willing
to work on recovering M, or am I showing "I GIVE UP", and
thus, am "okay" with it, and "accept it" , making it easier for him to proceed without feeling like a "bad guy" ??? This confuses me !!

Slammed

Hi Slammed,

Wow, your WH said the same thing. It's so weird. It's almost like their mind/brains were snatched and engineered by aliens to make them only see whatever convenient to them at that time (no recollection of fun memories when they want to divorce but use them shamelessly when they want to come home!). It really shows how foggy these men are.

I hope you have a good day today - we have pretty bad storm up here.

Milk

If you have to go...go protect your rights.
-look GOOD, really GOOD and smell good too.
-wear your wedding ring but don't flaunt it (he'll check to see if you are wearing it.)
-smile and look calm.....but if you get upset let it show...don't sob or beg...but getting choked up is understandable.
-do not be confrontational or aggressive...but not a pushover.
-if they ask if you want a D....say your choice would be to save your M.

Pebbles WH use to try to say how he still cared for her...he was looking for an ex w/benefits.



If you are upset tell him your are sad he will no longer be part of your life after the D. When he says it doesn't have to be that way say "Yes, it does. I am your wife it would break my heart to be anything less than that."

But being in plan B you shouldn't really have any personal conversation w/him alone. This all just stinks!

Thanks Milk,
Yes, the WS seem to all have this same thing in common-
"re-write" history when it's convenient, and remember when that helps THEM... either way, very self serving.
Sorry you are having a stormy day- it's beautiful here,
almost 80 ! (unusually warm for us at this time of year,
but probably won't last long !)

ChaCha-
Glad to hear from you, and thanks for the suggestions.
How are things going with you now ?

Mimi/A.M.- You are both so good at helping me get a "handle"
on things- please read my earlier post w/questions aboout
"I let go", VS. "I give up" and give me your thoughts when
you have time.
Slammed

I am doing well.My job is good, I started taking Country Line Dancing Class...fun, I've forgiven myself for the mistakes I made in the M, I'm ready to build a new M but I can't do that w/o FWH. I'm still waiting for him to catch up. So I continue my personal recovery, rediscovering myself and what I enjoy.

FWH is home more and more but he has not moved back home yet. He is making some statements about some of his past behaviors that leads me to think the fog is lifting some. Still no substantial progress w/ M.

I have "let go". I gave up the notion that I am soley responsible for the state of our M. That I could make FWH do or not do things. That if I grabbed on to M and held on tight I could control it. I can't...I can only control myself. I haven't given up but I want to make room for the M to grow without blocking the air supply with choke hold.

This is FWH horoscope for the day:
Sometimes the biggest stroke of luck can be not getting what you want. Think about it: If you get what you desire, it's only as good as your imagination made it. If you leave it up to the universe, it'll be a lot better. .

This is your horoscope: (Libra right?)
You have only just scratched the surface on a new goal -- and this is one you can conquer! So keep working at it today, despite a potential schedule crunch. You should make amazing progress, and the accomplishment you feel will give you the energy you need to keep at it -- sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but in a good way! All this positive energy will feed new ideas and encourage things to go in the right direction. You officially have permission to get excited about things.

Letting go and giving up have similarities and differences.

Letting go means you no longer accept responsibility nor do you try to control outcomes. It's an "acceptance".

Giving up is not acceptance at all. It is a wounded, hurting response to losing control.

Letting go is a choice - an empowered choice to live, as "Sweet Charity" ends with "hopefully ever after". It is choosing to be a victor over circumstances and outcomes by letting go of expectations of how it should look or feel.

Giving up is a posture of martyrs and victims.

So what if he thinks you're going easy on him and het's "getting away with it". By trusting in a power greater than yourself, you know full well that the full karmic debt is going to hit him like a ton of bricks and there's nothing you can do to prevent it, you are just letting that higher power work it's full force on your husband - something he has needed to feel for a very very long time.

Bad guys are bad guys, whether they try to live in denial or not. He may be numbed by booze and OW right now, but someday that particular painkiller isn't going to work so well. He can either feel it then, or try to find something stronger. As long as you are there, he'll use you like a drowning man would push a lifeguard under water...

All this is not for the EFFECT of what it SOUNDS LIKE. The purpose is for YOU to FEEL BETTER. "Letting go" is for YOU because you can have NO EFFECT AT ALL OVER HIM. You need to really believe that. I believe this about my DH now. I CAN ONLY CONTROL MYSELF. I HAVE NO EFFECT OVER HIM. Make sense? He leads his own life and makes his own choices.



Here you go again. It was not about SHOWING that I was moving on. I actually was MOVING on. I had no choice because my H had CHOSEN not to be with me. Remember: I HAD HOPE FOR THE FUTURE BUT ACCEPTED THE REALITY OF THE PRESENT. That's how I faced each and every day.



I didn't care what he thought about what I was doing. He was a foggy WH who was clueless. THE SIMPLE MESSAGE THAT HE HAD TO GET WAS...GET RID OF THE OW OR THERE IS NO US. It was as simple as that. He did not need to understand what I was doing or why I was doing it. It wasn't hard for him to get the SIMPLE MESSAGE. I wasn't doing what I was doing for the EFFECT or to SHOW him anything. I was trying to make it from day to day. I was trying to survive and I couldn't survive thinking about him at all. I had to erase thoughts of him completely out of my brain as we have been encouraging you to do. Thinking about him was USELESS to me and got me nowhere...

Sorry, Slammed. This is probably more info. than you needed to hear today from me...



Definitely go and be CALM, COOL and COLLECTED. Why wouldn't you? As of that day, he doesn't want you. So you don't want him. Don't think of SHOWING him anything. What's most important is your self-respect. You don't want a man that doesn't want you. That's not giving up hope. That's facing the reality of that day. If he wants you back, let him come begging...like my H did....

This was REALLY how I felt..NO SHOW..

But on the other hand, keep in mind that MY H FOUND THIS NEW ME TO BE MORE ATTRACTIVE..STILL DOES...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

ChaCha-
Glad to hear you are doing well, staying busy, and keeping
a good attitude as you work towards recovery of your M.
Sorry that FWH is slow getting "onboard", but at least it
sounds like he's on the right track !
Have been having difficulty myself lately, in accepting and
trying to forgive myself for the mistakes I made in our M.
Think it's going to take awhile~

Thanks for the horoscopes. I read them in the local paper
most days, but always seem to get the ones that say stuff
like "struggling, hard times, be careful with finances",
etc. while WH (Gemini) keeps getting "time for a romantic
dinner for two, relationship getting better, and time for
fun". I'm just waiting for the day WH's says "affair blows
up in your face" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KaylaAndy- Thanks for the very eloquent definitions of
"Letting Go" and "Giving up"- that did help get it more clear in my mind. Realized a long time ago that nothing I
have done or said has made any difference on WH doing what
he wants to do, not that it kept me from trying anyway !
Guess we sometimes feel like we have to "try" even when it's
as helpful as banging our head on the wall !
Yes, I'm sure the Karma will come around and get WH one of
these days and I wish that was more of a comfort right now
while I'm feeling like all the bad stuff has happened to me.
Don't know what I ever did to deserve loss of my best friend
and marriage, losing my job, likely losing my home, and all
else that has come with this miserable affair... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, Mimi, for your explanation as well. You always
are able to get through in a way that make sense !
Wasn't meaning "showing" as in "for show", but more as you
described it, as being the "reality" of things.

Slammed

The rough stuff hitting you may be your heavenly personal trainer putting more weights on than you are comfortable lifting, but you need to let go of the dead weight your husband has become and focus on what you can improve and strengthen.

It's heavy lifting for certain, losing a job, and dealing with the financial fallout from alcoholism and infidelity of an addicted spouse.

If and when your husband hits bottom, he will also have a choice - to see the bad stuff as punishment, or an opportunity and step into the process. Just like someone who eats and eats and never works out, eventually they have to get on the health program too. It will just take them longer than someone who was mindful of their health and pays the price as they go.