He says I wont tell you that anymore. I said....Sorry, I guess I dont FEEL appreciated.

Wonder if he will get the conotation?

LOL!! Good one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

No whacks from me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Btw, u do know the Ws speak from a different dictionary?!?!?! It's called: Engrish LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thank you for the input Orchid. He seemed kind of hurt. All he had to say was... Ok. I just have to remember to not go over the line. I can do that easy. But he always says I am putting him on a guilt trip and he HATES a guilt trip....mainly because he has unreasonable guilt all the time...when real guilt comes up..I dont know if he can tell the difference. Maybe he will get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have not decided what plan I am in, so I am winging this as I go along for the moment. But it is almost like he is putting ME in plan b. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> But I emailed him the budget for this payday and asked him kindly to take his half, after bills, out of the account because it hurt me terribly to see how he spent his money and with whom. Then I thanked him for continuing to support his family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Too much of a guilt trip? lol


Katie

Well I might have stuck my foot in things today. WH texted me today. I had had a job interview this morning, so I texted him back that I had had the interview. He texted and wanted to know how it went. So instead of texting I just called him.

Talked to him about how my interview went. He said he was not having much luck there finding a job, but did find one he is going to apply for. I asked him if he is sure he really wants to do this,(move there). He said he was not sure of anything.

I told him DD and I were here. That we missed him and loved him. I told him that I loved him but probably was not in love with him, but that I was committed to our marriage and to change. Change for myself, even if he didnt come back.
He said that it was too late for him. I said it was never ever too late with God. Told him we really wished he wouldnt move.

I think he tuned me out at some point in there and when I finished, he very quickly said he had to go. Nice to talk to me, talk soon.

I am not sure about the too late for him. Not sure if he was saying for HIM it was too late to repair things with me, or that with as much as he had done it was too late. I dont know. I did text him after that and said I was sorry I had called because it always sounded like me begging or him feeling I was giving him a guilt trip. That it was never too late with God. That we love him, family needs us...our DD and DS.

Havent heard from him since. Sooo, did I mess that up terribly? I should have just not called him, but I was excited about my job interview and wanted to tell him about it. But when he started talking about his job situation and plans and stuff....guess I wanted to put in my plea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Think I messed up.

I just want to say, that even though I had that "blip" on my day, I had a really positive day. I had one job interview, applied for 2 others. Had lunch with my mom and aunt. It was like spring here today...in the 70's...Just a nice day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Tomorrow the wheels fall off. lol Going back to the deep freeze in the weather. Hope the positive feelings dont go with it. But, I think the distance and not so much communication with WH is a good thing. For today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Way to recover your perspective, Katie.

LA

Maybe I just have spring fever. lol Or maybe I am getting to the point I can see my life going on without WH if I have to. Dunno. Just feel better today. Now when I crash, yall will have to come to the rescue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

When does our hearts stop hurting? When do we cease to let things break our hearts? When we let ourselves become hardened and bitter? Or is it when our hearts are ripped from out chests? Or when we take our last breath? When does the pain they inflict go away? When do we cease to care?

Found an email wh sent to someone stating that his "family" had a to do this coming Saturday. He was referring to OW and her family as his "family". I guess we are no longer his family now. Not in his mind anyway.

I think it is time to write my plan b letter.

My plan b letter for review...

My Dearest H,

In this past year and half, I have come to realize a lot of things about myself that contributed to you feeling so unhappy that you wanted out of our marriage. I am soo sorry for that. When you left and started your affair with OW, it broke my heart. It was in that broken heart and brokeness that I finally accepted the Lord and I started to see all those things that led us to this terrible place. I have been seeing a councilor, reading and learning about myself, to change those things, so that I can change them and avoid them in the future.

I want to do that…to be able to meet your needs and avoid all those things that hurt you and me. To make a life with you that would make us both happy. To be your best friend and to always be there for you. But I cant do that until you end your relationship with OW.

I told you once before I could not be just your friend. You are my husband, the man I love…I cant be just your friend. Because I still love you, I cant be your friend on the side, while you continue your relationship with her. So, until you can end your relationship with OW, I am going to avoid talking to you or seeing you. I love you so much. There are so many things I still do love about you. But you must know how much suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW.

When we got married, I expected it to be for life. I loved you then, but it was not what I feel for you now. You are the only man I have ever loved. You have been my best friend, my husband, and my lover…the love I have now does not compare to when we first married. But somewhere along the way, we lost something. We married very young grew up together with our children. I realize now that we needed help understanding each other and ourselves, in order to meet each other’s needs in such a way as to build love and not destroy it. I planned on marrying once and remaining committed to my husband for life…it broke me when you left. God used that brokeness to bring me to the place where I could let go of my pride and selfishness, accept Him and see how He saw me. I guess even in this pain and suffering I can praise God for my salvation and for His mercy.

I will help with the finances as soon as I get a job, but until then I will email you with the budget prior to each payday. Maybe we can redo the financial arrangements then. When you want to see DD, please email her. You can call her or make arrangements with her via email. I will not be here when you come to pick her up. Our children need us a great deal.

If you never call me again, I will accept that choice. I know I cannot force you to stay against your will, I never could. But the Lord is going to take care of me and be with me, I know that now. You and I have been through a lot; we have 3 wonderful children and have had some wonderful, beautiful times together.
Please know that I love you and am willing to talk, should you ever decide to end your relationship with OW. But until that time, I cannot be with you. I pray that the Lord will guide you in your life.

All my love,
Katie

bump^^^^ for review.

^^^^^

Hey, Katie...

Don't rush a Plan B letter, though I understand it can feel like relief.

The shorter the better, more punch.

"I have been seeing a councilor, reading and learning about myself, to change those things, so that I can change them and avoid them in the future." Counselor, good, reading and learning, good...instead of putting "chose those things" own them, list them; which lovebusters you've recognized and how you won't give yourself permission to do them and what ENs you didn't meet (if any) that you recognize now (the love language thing).

"I want to do that…to be able to meet your needs and avoid all those things that hurt you and me." I like the "you and me" in here to show that you recognize that LBs hurt you, too. Very strong. You could work that in above, with the specifics.

I would subscribe to a structured letter...first paragraph, gratitude for your years together and your children and your goals for these things.

Second, what you've learned and how you'll implement it; how your beliefs have changed with becoming informed about so much you didn't know before.

Third, that you still desire to have a great marriage, with complete forgiveness, but as long as he is in an affair, that can't be. You have to protect the remaining love you have for him by no longer taking his calls, emails or seeing him. Any contact must be made through so-and-so, who will then relay information to DD and you. (Don't make DD be her own intermediary while her Mom is dark, please.)

If and when he would like to have a great marriage and his loving family intact again, then
He must end his affair and have no contact with OW.
A no contact letter must be written with your approval and sent.
That he enter MC with you, or seperately, with a pro-marriage counselor.
And that he stay transparent as to no contact.

I would say something to the effect that you know he's a man of integrity and will understand why you must do this, and you have full faith in God to guide and protect you both.

LA

LovingAnyway,

Have I told you how much I love your name and wish WH felt that way? Anyway, I appreciate your posts. I will try and rework the letter. And your right, I do want to detach from him. Hurts too much. Him calling her his family cut my heart out.
But I will re-read what you had to say and do my best.

Katie

I know you want to detach from pain and suffering. I want you to do so with class, integrity and the knowledge that you gave him a way back. Plan B isn't punishment or manipulation. It really is to save what remains of your love and to show that you love yourself also, to take conscious steps to do just that.

Not an easy letter to write. One that has to be rewritten a lot because of your pain and suffering and desire for it to stop. Totally human, Katie.

Thank you on the name...based on the Kent M. Keith paradoxical commandments...often attributed to Mother Theresa. It's a goal name that is coming true for me and my H. You are not alone in your hurting, Katie. You're just not.

LA

Good letter. Make it a tad shorter.

And keep in mind the mental picture james dobson uses to describe of the cage door flying open when you look in lmbt...he has another type of a plan B letter in it.

However, to keep from any legal quandries about YOU...to keep any RED FLAGS FROM GOING UP...should WH NOT come home or agree to NC or plan B ends..do not mention anything about counselors, or healing...

why? My WS was so reaching for straws he tried to use the fact I went to see a counselor against me..yea, the WS who is cruel and unfeeling and was cause of situational depression tried to turn it against me...the one hurt by his affair and lying and pathology.

It has not been the first time a WS has tried that. Please protect yourself and remember it with regard to plan B letter.

He also tried to say that b/c I left him a note right before plan B about what EN's I had worked on bettering for him...THAT I DID NOT AND WAS NOT A GOOD WIFE..THUS WHY HE HAD THE AFFIAR..foggy, I know...but this man actually had his attorney present this crapola in court.

The judge almost laughed.

But he tried it.

His attorney asked me, "Now Ms. Darth, Isn't it true you admit to BEING A BAD WIFE by not meeting Darth's profound needs for admiration? And for blah blah blah?"

He actually tried that defense. To get me to admit being a bad wife in front of the court...My attorney objected saying that I was going thru a specific marriage helping program designed to help want the WS to come back to the marriage thru the enticement of meeting their emotional needs...that it's just one tactic used. That was how my attorney diffused it. Judge said "I don't care what excuse you have...cheating is cheating period and you not admiring me 100 percent of the time won't make me decide to do something immoral or harmful if I don't want to do it myself. I think his cheating had little to do with his wife not hero worshipping this man."

Just remember...some words you write could come back to you later..in a twisted version. So be careful.

I am always cautious to any BS who thinks there is a small chance of ever being divorced. You should do all to save your family and marriage...but also be responsible in your actions in doing so to remain in a legally positive light..should you have to go to court..should your WS jump off the deep end into the affair.

Loving,

I do want to detach. New word I learned in counciling today. Learning the difference between detaching in love and detaching in anger. There is a difference and I can see where I need to detach in love, for him to be left with that picture. Not with me detaching anger and bitterness.

It is just I have been at this so long... I am tired. Tired of nothing changing, tired of not feeling wanted. Wanting to feel there is somebody in the world that thinks I am worth some effort. But then I see that is how WH felt for so many years in one way or another....and I am torn all over again. It has been 21 months since he first left. 20 months since his affair began. How long do I wait?

JP,
I have the Dobson letter as well as the plan b and tried to take the best from each. But it is long. WH doesnt like long lectures.
There is not a small chance we will be divorced...there is a big chance we will. But it will be an uncontested divorce. We will hammer out details ourselves I am sure. Custody of DD will be mine. He does not want that responsiblity. If things go to D and they are not shaping up the way they should be, then I will contest.
But WH is not going to use my going to counciling against me. I know him well enough to know that.

Ok, rework the letter. I will do what I can and get back to ya.

Katie

Katie,

I know you're tired. I know you're bone-weary and you keep at it. You have a lot of recognition for your part, his part and a huge desire to live what you can so easily see now as a thriving marriage. All that wears you down...if you allow it. Use it to pump yourself up into loving detachment.

This is about you, Katie. You are doing a hero's journey...you are attending to your own redemption, personal achievement and allowing the real strength that you've denied for so long to be loose upon your life. Feel that surge of energy to see how far you have come! Look at you, Katie! Honestly, you've got insight, awareness, fortitude and awareness of your choices and actions seperate from WH's...that's big. Let that be your energy point...the known change in you; not the wearing down lack of change in him.

See the diff? Congrats on the detach with love vs retaliation kind. I knew you'd get that and let your letter lovingly reflect that. The gratitude for the marriage is the experience of you owning just your part, so grateful for the experience to grow and know what you might have taken the rest of your life to piece together.

You aren't doing one long, drawn out war, Katie. You are doing many small skirmishes. Up your self-care and focus for resting in between. There is nothing defective in you--you are whole and complete and shining. Remember that. Treat yourself accordingly.

LA

I just came from seeing DS at the jail. Breaks my heart but, he did the crimes. I cannot bail him out. I wont bail him out. Just hard to talk to him. Hes getting ansy and stir crazy and it has only been about 3 weeks. I did take him his bible and AA book.
Never thought in a million years that my life would be turning out this way.
Maybe one reason WH decided to bail now. Tired of the old and wanted new. Which is somewhat true...since he is already calling OW his family.
I texted WH and told him I had visited son today. He texted...I have some stationary, going to try and write him every day.
Well, whooohooo...lets jump for joy at such dedication!NOT!
Guess I am just depressed today. Feel very unwanted. Like I am not worth any effort to anybody.

Katie,

"Like I am not worth any effort to anybody"

Know that feeling...been there, come close to it today for awhile. Know it leaves, too. You are worth YOUR every effort. You went to see DS because that is who you are--you draw the lines. I love you, support you and love you enough to not interfere with the consequences of your actions (even if you could). What a Mom. He prizes you, your other DS and DD do...you are their world.

Oh, wait...did I miss it? Very unwanted...and I'm telling you how much you're needed. I'm sure missing the mark lately, aren't I?

God desires you to be in this world, as you are, with everyone who you know. You're very wanted. When I feel that, I remind myself, I want me. I want my attention, my own self care towards me. Works for me, your mileage may vary.

Did you acknowledge to yourself that you are a vital, significant part of a marriage, family, community and world? Maybe it's not that you're unwanted, but you're not acknowledging who you are. No WS can ever take that away from you, Katie. You are wanted, loved, needed, admired, appreciated, accepted and considered--even when you can't feel it.

LA

Loving,

I know my children need me. Sometimes I dont feel very needed by them, but i guess more than that... I need them. I just get so hurt and angry that WH has traded us in for a new family.
I miss the feeling of being wanted for me as a woman. All the needs and desires.....guess i am a mess tonight.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I appreciate that.

Cathy