Start with God and work yourself backwards...

God created you. Check.

You didn't create yourself. Check.

God loves you just as you are, without deeds. Check.

Wait...how do you love? Because of how someone treats you or because of who they are...or do you choose who you love?

If I believe I earn love, then how do you earn that to yourself?

If you don't believe you earn love, but are wholly lovable because you exist as a human...then where is the hard part?

LOL

LA

LA,

My councilor has been working with me about this. How thoughts affect feelings, which affect behavior. And has given me a list of scripture about what scriptures says about how I feel about myself. I read them and I have the head knowledge, but hasnt trickled down into my little girls heart yet. Ya know?

I dont know how to get it there. Osmosis? lol

Heart and mind syncing up takes time. You can't rush it, even if you know. However, with time and patience..... it will come and when it does.....watch out WS..... a BS with her/his mind and heart in sync is a strong enemy..... those BS don't like t/b fooled or fooled around with.

Much harder for a WS to deal with a BS whose thoughts, goals, boundaries and objectives are clear.

take care,
L.

Katie...how about the books?

Healing the Shame that Binds Us...Bradshaw

Homecoming: Healing your wounded inner child..Bradshaw

Helping you help yourself. No rush. Takes time. You just sounded angry at yourself for not getting there...which is draining and gives you no energy to get there.

Orchid is right on!!!!

LA

I havent read either of those books. I will look for them at the library. No, I am not angry today. Just depressed I guess. And yes it does take patience. Something I dont have a lot of sometimes. And its lonely. Tired of being lonely.

Thank you both for your encouragement. I will try and read all this when I am more in the frame of mind to get it.

Cathy

Depression can be anger you can't handle. Anger at yourself. Being patient with yourself has a big payoff.

You said you'd get those books before (if I remember right)...so please do.

You're not alone. God is with you, and you, you are great company to yourself if you let yourself.

((((Cathy)))))

LA

Go to a bookstore that is open late.....sit and read. If you are still lonely......go find someone you can cheer up..... if you need more t/d, let me know.... I would like someone to come and clean my windows. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I had a lot of andrenaline while I was a BS. Used to clean, bake then bake and clean like you wouldn't believe. Kept posting here to help others which in turn helped me stay focused. Posted like crazy in the early days. Helped me keep my sanity.

Try it.

L.

Well, WH texted me in the middle of the night. Gist of the whole conversation was that he missed me and DD. I gathered he is miserable but doesnt see a way out. He ended with he was very tired.
Maybe his little vacation with OW made him think a little?
I dunno. Was one of those conversations I used to get all excited and hopeful over. I guess I still am, but I know he has to do this on his own. I cant pressure or beg or want to rescue him. I have to let him come to me.
Is that right?

Ok, another cryptic message from WH. I had told him last night that God had made a way of escape. He just had to choose. His message today said that he wished he knew what the escape route this time. That his web was now a chain.

Sounds like something has happened. Trying to not have hope. But it is hard. I just told him to call me if he wanted to talk.

Any advise here?

U feel like helping him? What if you found out that he is trying to find out if you w/b willing to enable his A?

If the messages are vague and cryptic, then don't respond. Don't offer t/b there to be used. Offer t/b there if he can prove he wants help. If he says he doesn't know how.....ask him does he know how to get into trouble? If he says, yes, then tell him t/d the opposite.

L.

He has no problem finding trouble. I guess getting out is a wee bit harder.
I want him to WANT to get out of trouble. I want him to take the steps himself. All I have done today with the messages is offer encouragement thru scripture and point him back to God. Tried to leave me out of it for now. But I did make sure he knew that we loved him and missed him.

Thanks Orchid.

I think your efforts are noble but to a WS could be wasted and it will hurt to see your efforts go unheeded. Time will tell.

I know, I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to help the WS. But what is help to a WS is not help to the BS and family so it was like spitting in the wind.

Later I learned that at this time, the best help was really no help. It was important for the WS to know that no one was waiting for him to come back as a WS. I let him know we loved our H and dad but not the WS within. If he chose t/b the WS within, then he was not going to get any love from us.

It took a long time to get to that frame of mind. My mind and heart had to get in sync t/b able to make that move but once I did, recovery for me went much faster. The WS lost the grip he had on reeling me in. He was seeing his family slip out of his fingers and all that was left was him and that stinky OW. Not a good replacement and even through the fog he could see that.

L.

So what would you suggest, Orchid? Send him a plan b letter now? Just sit back and do nothing and dont respond to his messages? Just would like some advice on how I should proceed right at this moment.

Cathy

See I did give you a suggestion.... I will reiterate again:

If you feel you just HAVE TO respond, then Offer t/b there if he can prove he wants help. If he says he doesn't know how.....ask him does he know how to get into trouble? If he says, yes, then tell him t/d the opposite.

L.

Well he texted me again. So I just asked him what was going on with him. He said he was growing weary of feeling guilty and wanted to be righteous again. That he missed me and DD.
I told him we missed husband and daddy too but he know what had to be done and he was the only one who could do it. I asked if he had ended the relationship.
Havent heard back yet. I know he hasnt ended things because he was there today and tonight too I think. Dont know if he has gone to his place now or not.

I guess i wait and see?

Yes. Remember, he has to fix himself. You can show him if he will let you. Otherwise it is a wait and see game. This is why it is important for the BS to cultivate patience.

You did fine.

L.

Thanks Orchid. I couldnt sleep after that last text. He hasnt texted back so I guess I should go to bed. But thanks for the encouragement.

Cathy

Hope you are getting some rest. The WS don't like to see the BS well and rested. They much rather see us haggard and grouchy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Spoke to WH today. He says he is going to try and end things with OW. But he doesnt know if he can. Doesnt want to give me any hope because he has none to give. (huh?) But didnt say he wanted us either. Just knows he has SA issues and needs help.
I did tell him I loved him but it had taken a beating. That for now I was willing to work on our marriage and relationship but I didnt know for how long. I did tell him he should check out the forums here. That there were a lot of people that could help him . So we will see if he comes.

Sorry on both counts, Cathy...

If you change your screenname, your posts remain..however, your new screenname goes on all of them.

Also, sorry to hear that you are willing to work on the marriage for awhile and then might not. Plan B doesn't work three and four times. Just doesn't.

You took him back and broke Plan B before with this very same dance. Didn't stick. He's in and out of your home (YOUR HOME) and is not making headway in his own recovery.

His own recovery.

SA isn't just something that's come up he's struggling with. It is a life-long perspective of escape...replacement addictions with SA being at the bottom of it. It has torn him up due to his spiritual beliefs, some of which may be what he is escaping most. God doesn't create it, but uses it as a way back to him...12 steps, acceptance, wisdom, courage and prayerful reunion.

Don't get in God's way, Cathy.

Now, I don't advise you to measure his personal recovery. I view that as a DJ. However, he has his own place (sorta kinda), he knows how to recover...there are SA groups all over, IC's who specialize in it, and some are MC's as well. He has demonstrable accountability measures he can take, and add www.recoverynation.com to those.

All these, and months of doing them with reports to you via his sponsor, would give you a solid, different way home, one with hope. You, too, would need to do the partner program on the same website. And work on getting how God loves you for you, his creation, as much as WH.

Do not, given this is two years of ping ponging through Plan A and B, same OW...a predatory animal of an OW...you must give these loving conditions to him and back them up. You want real recovery? He wants real redemption? This is the way. No more in house no contact time. You've been there, tried that, a few times.

This protects your children from the repeated betrayal, and your heart. This is where the rubber meets the road time.

Tough love is real love. The other stuff just enables YOU to not change. We're behind you...Time to use Orchid's reverse babble until conditions are begun and then completed.

You can do this. You have to do this to demonstrate your love in Christ. You don't have to do it alone. You promised to stay. I'm holding you to it.

LA

(((((((Cathy)))))))))