Ok Loving,
I have read thru this and understand some but unclear on other things.

"Do not, given this is two years of ping ponging through Plan A and B, same OW...a predatory animal of an OW...you must give these loving conditions to him and back them up. You want real recovery? He wants real redemption? This is the way. No more in house no contact time. You've been there, tried that, a few times."

Him and I both agreed we cannot do that again, the in and out thing. He doesnt want to move home at this time. Knows he needs to deal with his issues alone for now. And I told him I couldnt let him come back home with her still in the picture. That when he ended things with her, then we could talk about things. But I also reminded him we both have issues. That even if we lived in the same house, we could work on our individual issues at the same time. But without her and he knows that.
He just doesnt have much confidence in himself because he has tried this several times and failed.

As far as the,... "sorry to hear that you are willing to work on the marriage for awhile and then might not. ",...I was trying to get him to see that I am not going to wait forever for him to end his affair. That I was committed to him and our marriage but I didnt know how long I could do that. That I had been thru a lot. Should I not say that?

I have not gone to Plan B. Have waited on sending that letter. But have had limited contact with WH. He is going to night shift today, so he will not be able to attend the SA meetings. So he is wondering what to do now. I have given him several websites to look at but he cant do all that at work and he does not have internet access at his apt.

I will suggest we find a councilor that we can both see that will work with us individually and is pro marriage. I think my councilor would be very biased to see him at this point. It would be unfair to him. Better to start fresh?

I guess I am just asking you to lay things out as to what would be the best way to proceed. Step by step please.

K

Well, I have more information. Turns out that OW is living with my WH. Moved into his apt. She is looking for a job.
He says he wants to get his relationship right with God, but is trying to get her a job and on her feet first. Said he cant dump her in the street. That he promised her things. I said you mean like you promised me things? I am sure he has promised to marry her and all that.
He said he didnt know if this would make me feel differently about things but he was still working towards getting things right.

I dont know how many more of these i can take.

OW doesn't need the WS to survive. If she choose to move in with him, she can choose to move out. He is stalling to keep his options open.

Do you want t/b an option?

L.

Apparently she has no place else to go. Her mom kicked her out. She is separated from her husband. Has no car. She is using his. I just dont see this ending.

And no I dont want to be an option.

She has options.....she is too lazy to find them and he is too sappy to kick her out. That is her problem..... not his.

Your his responsbility. You decide whether you want to wait for him until it is convenient for him to come back. The WS will milk this opportunity to keep both actions going. Don't fall for this ploy.

JMHO,
L.

I agree that she has options. And how do I get him to see that? Maybe some other FWS can give me some insight on what he is thinking. I dont know. I know that from my point of view, the longer and deeper she gets in there...the harder it is going to be, for everybody. But I think all he can see is her feelings.
He said his ending his affair really had nothing to do with me. That if we recovered that would be icing on the cake but that he was ending things because he wanted to have his relationship with God back.

Is there anybody with this kind of background that can give me some advice at this point?

Let him know that waiting for her to 'get on her feet' is like helping the Devil dance. Why should she do anything to get on her feet when she has a sugar daddy? Ring those words in his ears or let someone else say it for you. Do you have someone who w/b strong enough to talk to him like that?

L.

He has not let anybody really talk to him. He has avoided all our friends. He is currently getting started with emailing AskMe. But we will see how that goes.
I am sure that the promises he is talking about is divorcing me and marrying her. They did just come back from a 2 week vacation to Vegas.

But I dont know if me telling him things like that will have any impact on him at all. And it is something I have said all along. She is not going to mess up a good thing. Already been thru 2 husbands and wore out her welcome with her mother. So WH is all she has got. Or so she says and he says.

You decide if you want to wait t/b chosen. Then expect it t/b drawn out as long as possible. The sooner you make noise about not waiting for him, the sooner that A can end.

The WS likes having options and right now you are just a # to the WS. Not to your H but to the WS.

U decide.

L.

More information revealed. WH moved OW into his apt over 3 wks ago, before the trip to Vegas. He said he is way farther along than I think he is.
I am going to take that to mean he has probably proposed and quite possibly given her a ring.
However, he is having a problem with all of it. He is weary of his sin and is having a great deal of pain in divorcing me and marrying her.

So this is what I have. How does he extricate himself from this? I know my H and he will not just abandon her. He wont give her deadline. If I know him like I think I do, he is going to wait for her to get a job before he ever even says anything to her about wanting out.

So anybody have any suggestions from here? It has been said that I am only a number to him. I dont think I am even that at this point. I dont even know if we have a chance at recovery. But I am wanting to know if anybody else has been in this situation and if they have any advice.

Thanks,
K

My situation was different in that my H had moved in with a wealthy OW and her 3 kids. I would wonder what would make him want to leave that and come back to our middle class lifestyle. But he did. This was all after she had gotten a divorce. It seemed like it was due to the A but it could have been an exit A...wasn't her first A.

If you haven't already, read 'Love Must Be Tough', byh James Dobson.

If and when he comes back this time you want to be sure it is the real thing. He just can't come right back and resume his old life. Big growth and changes in him have to take place prior to you allowing him back. Get that attitude? Allowing...Don't at all seem like you are at his mercy. You need to be your best self: attractive, vibrant, starting to toss around options should he chose to continue his pathetic A with this well used and worn OW leftovers.

Ok, this is a vent!

WH comes here today so we can go see DS who is in jail. He has a drug addiction, btw.
I tried to have a conversation without OW or relationship. IMPOSSIBLE!!!! She has contaminated my whole freakin life!! There is NOTHING we can talk about where she is not there. I asked him about his trip to Vegas about his brother that lives there....the WE came up. I couldnt handle that,so change the subject. He saw friends of ours in Vegas... the WE came up..change subject. EVERYTHING...she is everywhere.

It was almost comical to listen to WH talk to DS about DS drug addiction. Asked him if he was thinking of going to rehab. Getting some help. DS almost laughed. DS told WH he didnt have any right to talk to him about any of that. WH did tell him he was his father, sort of. His responsiblity. DS asked him about us. WH told him we had both made a lot of mistakes and now we were payin for them. That all we can do now is try and fix what is fixable. WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT MEAN???

Ok, I think I am done. I just want to either yell at him or cry every time we have a conversation. Seems the only way we can communicate right now is via email. WH has been telling me he wants to get his life right with God. Knows he needs to end his relationship with her. But I know he feels sorry for her and "loves" her too. The knight in shining armor thing. She has nobody else, she is obese so she tells him nobody wants her. She has told him before that she is disposable. She uses people. Takes advantage of them, even her own mother. So now she has my WH as a sugar daddy and he has a soft heart with a rescue problem. Oh and get this...he said in an email last night that he loves her and that she has fulfilled many of his fantasies for him and the like. LIKE I REALLY WANTED TO KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now all I can think about is what did they do???? UGH UGH UGH!!!!!!

Ok, now I think I am done. Just an emotional day all around. Glad its almost over.

It has been a long and weary day. I feel like my heart has been turned inside out and there is nothing left. How long does this emptiness last? How long do I feel so very alone?

I found DS is facing charges that, if convicted, would put him in prison for up 20yrs. He's 19.
When did the WS become so self absorbed and arrogant that they can just inflict hurt at the drop of the hat?

I pray that others recover from this hideous nightmare. I dont know that I will.

I have talked to WH and he is talking about ending his affair with OW. Might not be the MB way, but we have discussed him moving into the spare bedroom.
OW can have the apt for one month to get her act together. But she has no car and no job and is not from here but 100 miles away. Not sure what she will do.
But I am sure WH will want to loan her a car for the month.
We are just talking at this stage. I told him I needed to ask questions and get some boundries before I could make a decision to let him move back in.
WH is having a hard time dealing with his guilt of living with OW and the fact his relationship with the Lord is gone. His sin and his conscience are killing him.
So I have no doubt that this is probably the motivating factor. He does say that no matter how much he cares for her it is not going to work.
So that is what I have today.

K

I hope you won't let him back until he has ENDED the affair. Otherwise you are just letting yourself in for more heartache. He needs to make a clean break from her, and start protecting YOU and his family.

I agree but it is a bit more complicated. She has no job,no money, nobody here but WH and no car. It is his apt. and we dont have the money to rent him a new place. We have been separated off and on now for almost 2 years. So it is different in the way that I have to look at her. Does that make sense? Almost like an ex gf or ex wife since they had planned on getting married.

Her problems or lack of funds are NOT your problem. If she was stupid enough to put herself into that sitch.....she'd better get herself out, NOT expect you or your H to bail her out.

That's an excuse that the WS and OP will milk forever if YOU let them.

L.

Well I agree with you there Orchid. I tend to be tough that way as well, but WH is not. He feels sorry for her. He has that rescue thing going. I have been offering him several options about what to do with her, but so far all he says he doesnt know what he is going to do. Maybe he will think about the options I have put to him.
But I did tell him i couldnt let him move in here with no plans or guidelines.

He does not want to hear your options. He knows they are good options but the WS in him will reject everything and anything you as the BS will say. Why? Just because he is a WS.

So what t/d? Stop offering opinions. You might consider removing yourself from that triangle.

L.

Thought I would give a small update. WH came over yesterday. We took DD to see a movie and then to see DS in jail. Came back and cooked dinner and hung out as a family, watched a movie. Was a lovely day. WH and I had some time alone, talked some and didnt talk some. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
He knows what he needs to do, but is having great difficulty in abandoning OW. He said something about not knowing if he had the strength. I said well you found the strength to leave us and I understand that I was part of the problem leading up to that. But that if he knew what was right and was going to do it, he would find the strength. God would give it to him if he asked.

I asked him if he had told OW what he has been thinking. He said no, not in so many words. I told him that he should tell her and give her the opportunity to decide for herself if she wanted to stay in the town they are in or move back to her hometown with her friends and family. He did say they have argued a lot lately, I assume in reference to his "no, not in so many words." He has great guilt in staying and great guilt in going.

As hard as it is for some to understand, I can understand and sympathize with WH in this situation. I know WH and I know what kind of heart he has and this is very hard for him. I have tried to put myself in his shoes and I dont know if I could do it either. I feel somewhat sorry for him. He did say he might call a gentleman from our church and talk to him.

Anyway, I checked out Codependant No More and giving that a read. Going to get out of town for a few days this week on spring break with DD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

K