This week I asked H to switch visitation days because I had plans on Thursday, to which he agreed.<P>Also, I went out Friday night with a (male) friend, and didn't tell him where I was going. Nothing special, just meeting a friend for dinner.<P>Not trying to be secretive, just getting on with my life.<P>Monday night he started fishing around trying to figure out what I've been up to, but he didn't come out and ask, so I didn't volunteer. <P>Today he called me at work. No "hello, how are you", just immediately -- "Okay, I can't stand the curiousity, what are you doing Thursday night?" So I told him (going out with my father!) Then I told him about meeting my friend on Friday. He got angry! He said "Remember how before you found out about the affair you knew something was up? Well I had the same feeling." The conversation ended shortly thereafter, as I was at work and didn't want to get into it.<P><BR>I can't believe he would compare one dinner with a friend to his affair!!! And what does he mean about having a feeling? There's nothing going on, so what's the feeling?<P>What's going on here? I'm not interested in trying to make him jealous -- I don't believe in playing games. But I deserve to have a life!! <P>So what do I do? I composed the following email to him, but didn't send it (sorry this is long): <BR>What I do IS your business, because I'm your wife. Because I don't want to get divorced. I love you and I'm still married to you. For me to get involved in a 'romantic' relationship at this point would be the same as having an affair and I won't do it. <P>At the same time, I want/need to get a life. I want to know that there is a life waiting for me after divorce. It would be nice to know that someone enjoys my company and finds me attractive, even if I don't want to act on it right now. <P>Some people would say I should keep you guessing. Make you jealous. I don't believe in playing games. Picturing you with Tasha causes me the worst pain imaginable. I won't put you through that kind of hell just to mess with your mind. Your mind's messed up enough already :-) <P>All my love,<BR>Annie <P>This is the marriagebuilders way -- reiterate my commitment to him.<P>But the divorcebusters way would be to keep him guessing. He initiated the phone call, why should I give him more information he hasn't asked for? Interestingly, the marriagebuilders way hasn't gotten me far, but he seems to be responding more to the idea that I'm going to go on without him.<P>What do you all think? Do I send the email or just do nothing?<P>Boy, things are getting really weird around here. <P><BR>[This message has been edited by Animac (edited September 29, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Animac (edited September 29, 1999).]

My life is such a mess that I can not offer much advice, but how bout a smile <P>Your baby is 1 day older than mine, and aren't those "suck your face" kisses the greatest thing in the world! My little girl smiles at me and the worlds uglyness just melts out of my mind!!!!<P>cozy

I'm not familiar. Are you in A or B?<P>Also, I think part of your letter is a lovebuster. Blaming, and defending.<P>If you are in B, the re-explain that you don't want to lose love for him, and when the relationship is over with the OW and he wants to work on the marriage, then to give you a call.<P>If you are in A, then you are lovebusting big time.<P>I don't know about the divorcebusting methods.<P>But, don't send mixed messages - and I think this is what this email could do.<P>Sorry if it sounds judgemental, but it is only my opinion.<BR>TNT

u2b-yes, its a great stage! I thank God for this beautiful little miracle every day!<P>tnt-<BR>He filed for divorce 10 days ago. He officially stopped seeing the OW in May, but he works with her so there is contact every day. I vacillate between plan A and just letting go. <P>I'm interested in your opinion because I'm not good at the lovebuster control. Would you send an email? What would you say?

Animac, I probably have no business replying since I don't know your situation and I just now registered but here's some heartfelt advice, which seems to fly against some advice given. It boils down to human nature, and human nature is very strange in ways, like if we feel (aka your H) that our spouse, or SO is finally moving on with their life, we feel shocked and are reminded of the love we have/had and want to pull them back in, not wanting to lose them. It could become quite a tug o'war should we let it escalate. That's the mindgame aspect. And those who are dutifully waiting by, well they should get the respect, but they don't, and why? Because they don't keep their spouse second guessing and because they are too predictable. It shouldn't be like this, but it is, unfortunately.

Connor-<BR>Sorry, we were posting at the same time. <P>Yes, this is what the divorcebusting method says (lots of people here are also familiar with that approach). So that would argue that I don't send the email, because reassuring him tells him I'm still committed and hanging on, which makes me less attractive. Why is it we only value that which we don't have?

Annie<BR>You need to take care of yourself.<BR>I know that my H has grasped at silly little things that don't seem to make sense.<BR>If he asks specific questions I would answer them as calmly as possible.<BR>I don't think it would hurt him a bit to do some wondering.<BR>Just take it easy and take care of yourself okay!!!!!<BR>Keep doing things for you.<BR>If he knows where you stand then just keep giving that message short sweet and calm.<BR>

Hi Animac -<P>I think I understand how you feel....I <BR>have a lot of problems feeding into the <BR>"games" that I perceive are being <BR>played. Can't stand that stuff.<P>Some of DB is great with the Common <BR>Sense and other things like this is not <BR>to my liking but is unfortunately what <BR>happens in people's thinking... so you <BR>kinda have to go along....<P>I would look at this not so much as a <BR>game but more of letting his thoughts <BR>sway back this-a-way awhile!!<P>It's like if you catch something out of <BR>the corner or your eye that peaks an <BR>interest.....you would turn to look a <BR>little closer!!!<P>Let him look closer......<P>Does this make sense?<P>Hugs, <P>Sheba

Animac, that's what I wonder. I'm not familiar with the DB (is this divorce busting?, because I have heard of Michelle Weiner-Davis, but haven't read anything on her site yet) <BR> <BR>It just seems that so many people (betrayers) want to be entertained in their relationships, and if they aren't completely entertained, that they will seek outside influences until they find what they need. This is where the fantasy aspect comes in, and where some begin to realize there is no such thing as perfect love, because love is what we make of it and it takes two. I guess the more I read the more I realize, and it doesn't have much to do with my husband but it does have a lot to do with betrayers like me.<p>[This message has been edited by Connor (edited September 30, 1999).]

Personally, I would've said:<P>Why do you want to know what is going on Friday night? Do you have an alternative plan? And not even mentioned my planned event if I didn't have to - because I think it is good for him to realize that you have a life that you are trying to live peacefully and fully, as well. I guess that would be sort of a modified B approach.<P>Or I would say, I was going to dinner with a friend - would you like to come along? That would be more of a Plan A approach.<P>Just be careful not to send mixed messages, because mixed messages usually accelerates conflict.<P>Mis-communication is the root of most conflct. And conflict is a lovebuster.<BR>

Hi Animac,<BR> I vote do not send the letter, keep him WONDERING and play it cool but friendly. Probably not the MB way but this seems to be getting a reaction from him. (I'm a fan of DB)....just don't act like you are TRYING to make him jealous.......my opinion for what it's worth. Lu

Annie don't play games with your husband you don't know what he's really thinking.<P>His phonecall doesn't need a response from you. Be prepared though for further questioning. Just be honest.<P> I would continue with your life of recovery but try to include a night out with a girlfriend to reinforce your no- dating approach. What you want him to see is that you are able to have a life without him, but do reassure him at every opportunity that you would like to include him in that life. JMHO

Annie, I have to agree with awoken on this one. And I don't think your trying to play any games in your e-mail to him, quiet the opposite, your trying to be as upfront and honest as you can. I would send the e-mail only because it says the truth and he should want the truth as well. I don't think it makes you look pathetic, I think it makes him aware of how you feel in a non-threatning way. God Bless!<BR>Bren<P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>

Well, I'm not one for games personally, but the women I knew who played "the rules" naturally, before there was a book, did attract a lot more men. Gag. So I do think there is validity to this approach.<P>Obviously you are not comfortable with it, so withholding information and keeping him guessing is probibly wrong for you.<P>Maybe you can modify a bit by not giving more information than necessary and by being just a little elusive, not deceptive, just a little different. <P>I agree you should not seek a romantic relationship, but with divorce does come a new life and perhaps the only bright side of that you can really look at yourself and your life and make some choices of who you want to be. Reinvent yourself a little. Keep the real you, but make sure all the strength you have found is not buried, but melds with your origianal personality to showcase the vibrant, strong and capable woman you are.<P>Get a make over (if you want) change your style a bit (if you want) choose your facial expression, posture and demeanor. Live your life to the fullest within the appropriate perimeters.<P>If you are doing it for you, then you aren't playing games.<P>If you do need to send that e-mail, I would leave off the last sentence. Yeah, his mind is messed up and you wrote that lightly, but my H can dismiss the whole of what he reads or hears if he disagrees or is offended by one sentence so you don't want to lose that powerful message. Maybe state again "But the truth is, if you divorce me, I will go on and I will seek love again. <P>And yes, I do think he's a little jealous and I think the feeling surprised him.<P>Final answer, don't decieve, but be a little elusive, be loving and let go of lovebusters like your Harley advise (plan A), but start living your life as if you were going to live it alone sans romantically.<P>I think your H is not ready for what divorce really is which would be physical and emotional detatchment from you. Kind of like you don't know what you got until it is gone...and you now have given him a glance at how that would look and feel.<P>Don't be too quick to save him from the natural consequence of seperating from you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Annie, I'd probably send the email (but take into consideration what a success--NOT--my methods are sometimes). But I would leave off the last 3 sentences starting with "Picturing". Yes his mind is messed up. My H's is as well, but I don't joke about it unless he starts it and then I join in very gently, or even reassure him. You don't want your H to have any more reasons to stay out of the marriage, "Well Annie thinks I'm crazy...".<P>I feel like I got off the rollar coaster onto a tightrope...

Annie:<P>I don't think you should send the e-mail. The last paragraph is love-busting - it's a disrespectful judgment. The rest of it could be seen as defensive. You don't need to respond this way.<P>Frankly, you are entitled to go on with your life under these circumstances and don't really owe him an explanation. As I've expressed before, I think the most appropriate behavior is for you to pull back from him. NOT to play games, but to REALLY BUILD a separate life for yourself. A side impact, which is already apparent, is his realization that he actually stands to lose you, that you do have boundaries that need to be respected.<P>Plan B and last-resort are almost the same thing in practice (both rely on you focusing on you, not him). You need to pull back, let him know that you love him and intend to wait, but also that you will be building a life for yourself, working on your personal development and no longer taking care of him. That means he is really on his own, but you are clear to tell him in the letter that you take these actions out of love. In both approaches, you do not report back on your behavior or converse with them about your relationship. Last Resort is incidental contact with minimal, cheerful (no LB) interaction, Plan B is no contact (but if accidental, also cheeful an no LB). The main difference really is that LR doesn't demand a complete separation. In both, the infidel is left to wonder what you're up to (and you will wonder the same about him, believe me from experience).<P>I'm not sure you realize this, but you are fulfilling needs of his that are apparent in this conversation. He obviously feels that he "owns" your love at this point, that you are accountable to him for your time and who you see. That gives him a sense of security/power, even in this divorce (this is illogical to us, but I bet very important to him). It's also clear that he doesn't understand the ramifications to your relationship coming from the divorce. I think it's time to show him.<P>If you're ready, you should probably write him this kind of letter (with Steve's help). But I would not directly respond to his phone call. You have nothing to be defensive about - your behavior is completely reasonable. And especially, do not lovebust in regard to this or anything else.<P>As a side note, I think his behavior in this instance is extremely controlling. I know he can't see that, but I bet you can. It's quite ironic.<P>Sorry if I'm coming across a little strong here. Too bad I'm only capable of giving advice, not following it ...<p>[This message has been edited by Distressed (edited September 30, 1999).]

The latest weirdness -- he sent me an email today saying he wants to sit down and share some thoughts with me tonight. This is the first time he has initiated a discussion. I guess not sending the email was the thing to do. I doubt he's changed his mind about wanting a divorce, though, so I don't know what its about. I've learned through bitter experience not to get my hopes up, though.<P>I appreciate all the advice. I know what I'm doing is reasonable. But I'm still confused -- do I reassure him that I'm still waiting for him and still consider myself to be married? I'm doing two things at once -- hanging on to my marriage, but also preparing for divorce.

Hi Animac -<P>I'm so glad that he has initiated a discussion!!! WOW!! I know how much that means....<P>I would be steady with stating that he has made choices and steps toward the outcome of your situation with the marriage and that you apparently have no choice but to accept his decision. It is not something you want.<P>You need, however to begin to look at your own life and start things moving in a more positive direction. You've been learning a lot about relationships and how to improve and avoid things that have occurred in the past and that has helped you start those steps in moving forward. <P>You can reiterate to H that you want to share these things with him so that he can understand and grow from this also. But no matter what the outcome you will be better prepared for what life has in store for you. This has helped you be able to take steps towards the future.<P>Hope this helps......<P>Hugs, and good luck - you'll do fine.<P>Sheba

Like my daughter's teacher says "Put your listening ears on."<P>Be slow to say more than hmmm, with a pleasant poker face. If you need variety add Oh. <P>If it is rare that he has something he wants to talk over with you, make sure he feels heard and understood, even if you disagree. Hold your disagreement until you are sure he feels understood.<P>If it is appropriate for you to tell him you consider yourself married, but you have no alternative but to prepare for a life without him, then do so.<P>You'll have a chance to respond. Just be so anxious to listen that you may need some time to think before you respond.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Ani -<P>It's so confusing isn't it? I like you have learned not to get my hopes up AND not to expect rational or consistent behavior/actions. <P>I do not think I would assure him you are still "waiting". I like Sheba's advice because it reinforces that he has taken steps that will have a natural consequence and outcome (i.e. file for divorce = end of relationship = Ani moves on with her life, like "duh", but maybe he hasn't thought of it this way yet!).<P>I know this past weekend, my H said he was "writing me a letter" and that he will share it with me but that it isn't done yet. On the one hand, I don't want to get my hopes up, on the other, I sure hope it's not some wimpy "you're a great person, mother, etc., BUT...." kind of thing. Oh well, I'm focusing on me right.<P>Good luck Ani - you'll do great. Let us know how it goes.<P>Starpony