Things have changed enormously since I last posted. We have continued to work through the HNHN book and had a very serious discussion over the Honesty chapter.

H told me that he understands completely why I do not trust him as he recognises that his story keeps changing and he can see where that would lead me to be distrustful. He has talked in great detail about things that we discussed with the counsellor months ago and now it seems that he can understand what she was talking about.

I have told him that I will not accept responsibility for us being in the situation that we find ourselves in as it was his behaviour that caused the issues. I have also told him that I will not accept sole responsibility for the solution.

Since then things have been amazingly different. It seems that the fog that everyone keeps talking about is gone. H tells me that he has not seen OW for several weeks and I am experiencing a different person. H holds himself differently and seems more confident within himself, he is talking about day to day things that happen in his life, and is sharing a great deal more about himself. None of this behaviour is over the top but is close to what I would hope for as normal. Evryday seems a little bit better and I am feeling happier and lighter of spirit than I have for ages.

We had our 34th wedding anniversary last weekend and had a lovely weekend. We just normal everyday things and went out to lunch together. Altogether a great time.

One day at a time, but things are certainly looking up.

Georgina, thanks for the update. I was wondering about you...

I'm very glad to hear there are some improvements in your M and H's behavior! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your H said he hasn't seen the OW for serveral weeks now... Do you think he also doesn't have any type of contact with her (e-mail or phone) whatsoever? And do you think your H has finally realised that his friendship with OW is not a good thing for him and the M and have therefore ended it?

Suzet

Thanks for the response. It sometimes feels very lonely while you wait for a response doesn't it?

H and OW both work for a very large organisation and have no work related contact. He has told me that he intends to be totally honest about his behaviour even though what he tells me may cause hurt (this probably meant that if he told me he had seen OW) and to date he has not mentioned her at all. I do not think that they have had any contact recently. They both work there but H has told me that 'the friendship has probably run its course'. I think that a lot of things have hit home recently. I told him many times that I could not believe that if this was just a friendship then I could not understand why he would even suggest that he would leave the M for it. I think that a lot of things that we have talked about over several months have finally been absorbed.

I have tried to do a Georgina style Plan A - lots of loving actions, trying to be caring and involved etc and am wondering if finally it has paid off and H has realised, as you suggest, that this friendship is not a good thing for us and that what we have is worth more than the friendship. I am not sure if he has formally ended it so will wait out on that one and deal with it when I need to in the near future.

Georgina

Yes, it does. I understand what you mean! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I’m living on the opposite side of the world (South-Africa) and therefore I mostly reading & posting from work while the majority of posters are still asleep in the USA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Georgina, it sound if the friendship has died a natural death (or is still in the process of dying a natural death). It’s very good that your H realizes the importance of total honesty with you – especially regarding possible future contact with the OW. I hope if there might be contact again in future, he will stick to his word and inform you about it so that there will not be any further ‘secrets’ between the two of you. One of the ways to help affair-proof an M is to be totally honest and open with your S about interactions with friends/members of the opposite sex.

Take care,
Suzet

What a difference a day makes!

Why is it that we are so trusting? Is it because we so desperately want the problems to just go away that we accept what we are told?

H told me last week the the EA as I call it, or the lunches as he calls them, has just about had run their course(at least I think that was the expression)and that, coupled with other things that we discussed such as honesty made me believe that things were on the up.

I had a sense of unease this evening and asked him if he had seen OW this week and he told me that he had lunch with her on Monday and Tuesday. The ensuing discussion was not pleasant. I told him that he had told me that it had run its course and that he was going to be open and honest in his every day actions. What a joke. I feel like I have 'Bloody Idiot' tatooed on my forehead. I feel like an absolute fool. He was obviously just saying what he thought I wanted to hear so that I got off his case.

I feel pretty lousy tonight.

Georgina

Ref my last post I need some advice folks. If H cannot see what his friendship with OW does to me, what hope do we have?

Georgina

It is very late on my side of the world and I need my beauty sleep. Any advice / comment from you folks of experience would be helpful.

Georgina

^^^Bump^^^

Dear Georgina, just to let you know somoene cares and is reading your posts...

I'm sorry to 'hear' your H still have lunches/regular contact with OW. I can only suggest that you keep letting him know how hurtfull his behavior is towards you and the M, but it seems he just keep on disrespecting you in this regard...

I hope someone will post soon and give advice.

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers...

Take care of yourself,
Suzet

^^^Bump^^^

Someone please advise Georgina.

Georgina,
I'm sorry you are going through this. I know you are in a different country, but what about emailing Dr. Harley with your questions? Maybe he can give you better advice than we can.

Is there marriage counseling where you are? Is your husband Military? Is there counesling available through his work?

Sincse you found out he was still having lunch with her, did he tell you again that he refuses to stop doing it?

Is there a way you could start meeting him for lunch on a regular basis?

Moveforward

Thanks for the response. No my H is not in the military and there is no help available via his work.

Last Wednesday night I asked him whether he was having lunch with her because his behaviour changed completely - it always does when he is seeing her. He stops talking about the ordinary things of his day. I think that this is because he has already talked about them with her and has no need to discuss them again.

When we were in counselling last year, the counsellor asked him what he talked about with her at their lunches. He answered that they talked about the inconsequential things about their workplace. She told him that that information belonged to me. He said only last week that he did not understand that at the time but indicated that he finally did. However the lunches have begun again and he has stopped talking again.

I told him on Friday night that I can't cope with the lies that he keeps telling me about his r/ship with her, so from now on what he does when he is away from me is not my business. I now know that he intends to keep seeing her as he is still insisting that it is just lunch so I am not going to torture myself any more over it. I have asked that he behave with decorum as, even though he has told me that he does not care what other people think, I do.

He asked if it would make a difference if he said that he loved me. I told him that I thought that this was absurd because if he loved me he would not have told the lies that he has over the last five years about his r/ship with this woman.

I am dealing with a whole range of issues at work at present. I am being moved to another position and have to clear my work and hand it over to a new starter. This is very difficult for me. H told me when I first knew that this was happening, that it is not fair but he has not asked me since then how I am coping or if he can do anything to help me. This would have been normal behaviour for him in the past. I tried to talk to him about it tonight as I have to go back to work tomorrow after the weekend and I am finding it very difficult. His response, such as it was, is that he finds it very difficult to talk to me when I am 'like this'. I asked him to explain what that meant but he chose not to do so.

I am alone in so many ways and just not coping.

Georgina

*bump*

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(((((Georgina)))))) I am so sorry for your pain.

Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? (Sorry I can't remember and I don't have time ot read back this morning)

I'm wondering about your plan A. Have you exposed at work?


I'll be back this afternoon- just popped in a for a few minuites before work.

(((((Georgina))))) I'll be thinking about you today.

Moveforward

Thanks for the response.

No I have not read the Surviving an Affair book. I was about to purchase it but things were going so well I put it on hold. I think that this is an affair from the perspective that H spends time with her that I have asked him not to and he just continues to tell me that she is his best friend, or, it's just lunch!

As far as exposing at work goes. This one is difficult. They are not in a sexual affair, so what do I say? My H has lunch with an OW and I don't like it? Not meaning to be sarcastic or anything but on paper it sounds somewhat silly despite the hurt I feel.

Also, people at H's work are already aware of what is happening. One male colleague even asked them late last year if they were an item. H and OW thought that this was rather amusing and H could not see why I did not get the joke! I still don't and he is still saying it is just lunch.

Maybe it is just lunch but the thing that I can't get past is that I have asked him not to continue and he just keeps telling me more lies about it.

I am over it at the moment and not coping well at all.

Georgina

My question might sound a bit prosaic given the depth of problems that some of you within this forum face in comparison with my stuff, but how do you cope with the ups and downs of life?

On one hand I feel that I can cope, and separate myself from the issues for a short while at least, and then I feel it hit me again and I become overwhelmed. I even start wondering if this is all in my head and I should just 'get over it' and move on.

How do others cope with the highs and (more often) the lows?

Georgina

Georgina, I haven't read the whole thread so I apologize if it has already been said but two things come to mind.

1. Have you read the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass?
2. Your H cannot be "best friends" with a woman. It is disprectful and harmful to your marriage. Period.

As far as coping with the highs and lows of the rollercoaster consider detaching yourself some. Realize this is not about you. Your H is in an EA. It is all about HIM. Find things that interest you, that make you happy. Use this time to become a better Georgina.

Thanks Faithful

I will try to get some of those books. We were working through HNHN but after doing the Honesty chapter we have stopped. I guess that (without discussion) we have mutually decided that there is not much point. Dishonesty has been the focus of all this and anyway, if H cannot accept that I have a right to be hurt about all that has gone on I feel that there is little point on working on anything else.

I am going to have a more thorough read of Plan A. My understanding so far is that I apply all of the loving principles that I can to the marriage with no LB and H is to have NC with OW. How can we achieve the second part if he will simply not agree to this?

Also I find it extremely difficult to do the no LB thing, when he is LBing all the time through continued contact with her. I am also extremely angry with him a lot of the time as I cannot believe that this man who I have known for so long and whose opinion I valued over all others (so much so that I quoted him ad nauseum to all around me during discussion on any topic) would quite deliberately continue with an action that causes both me and our marriage such harm. By the way, I now rarely mention his name in general conversation outside of our home. How can I quote someone whose opinion and values I no longer respect?

Before this came to a head late last year, things were as good as they had ever been in the marriage. The kids had all grown and left home and we were having a ball. We were extremely close and did everything together. We would often (and scarily still do) say exactly what the other was thinking. H is still trying to behave as if everything is normal. Well I guess, why wouldn't he? He is still doing exactly the same as he was before I found out only now I know about it.

Very Muddled Georgina

Georgina, FF is right, your H cannot be "best friends" with a woman. However, he is having an EA for sure. That is evidenced by his statement that he would leave the marriage over this friendship. Can you imagine him making that threat over some MALE coworker?

I sort of see you at a crossroads, though. If Plan A fails to attract the WS out of the affair, the next step is Plan B, which is total seperation between you and him. I suspect you are at that place and don't think he will end his affair without some drastic measure.

That being said, you mentioned above that might choose to just live with it. It looks like that may be your future unless you do something different.

Can you bring me up to date on exposures? Have you exposed this to OWH, your children, the workplace?