I do...I do I do!

Mine...my xh IS PROBABLY THE POSTER BOY FOR THE WS.

HE NEVER CHANGED.

And sadly, there are some BS who do ALL IN THEIR POWER TO SAVE THEIR MARRIAGE...realize that they are ONLY HUMAN...

and that their time in purgatory must end at some juncture.

I did all I could do for my ds and myself and my very much loved H.

He responded faintly. Pretended and lied for a good six months. Lulled me into a false security. The lies and the pathology behind his lies and behavior still spins me if I allow myself to think about it.

I will not paint a picture of a hunky dory situation.

Many marriages here succeed. Many marriages here will not.

It is NOT a matter of you failing.

What is paramount is to DO ALL YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR FAMILY.

Our society is a throwaway society with emphasis on instant gratification.

With regards to matters of the heart, relationships and marriage...IT IS LIKE A MCDONALDS DRIVE THRU NOW. People expect to be fulfilled NOW! THEY WANT IT NOW! And if it is unpleasant, then they drive over to another instant gratification restaurant...maybe burger king? And they order that big juicy burger and what it NOW and HOT!

My wonderful yoda like older counselor told me that analogy! That's what's wrong with marriages today!

Plus it's too easy to get a divorce. Plus ATTITUDES OF SOCIETY SCREW THINGS UP TOO. There used to be a stigma if you were divorced. (kinda glad it's gone for my case though)...Even celebrities put their spin on the lies.

My most recent UNFAVORITES? GARTH BARF BROOKS AND TRISHA YEARWOOD SMEARWOOD.

He recently said during an article in parade magazine that He's KNOWN FOR 20 YEARS HE WAS IN LOVE WITH TRISHA. They knew each other casually. And he NEVER LETS ON TO FACT THEY HAD A TUMULTOUS AFFAIR WHICH LED TO HIS DIVORCE..the whole article was filled with revisionist history...And he even tells of Trisha going thru not one..but TWO FAILED MARRIAGES...before their AFFAIR MARRIAGE BEGINS.

Talk about families lying in the dirt behind them? Sick. Makes me sick.

It is this change and spin on the mentality of affairs..the "Well, everybody is finally happy now" mentality is what gets my goat.

To answer your question truthfully. Yes, I have a HORRIBLE XWS. WHO IS STILL A XWS.

Rose colored glasses must be removed before reading my truthful response my friend.

JustPeachy-

IT IS LIKE A MCDONALDS DRIVE THRU NOW

I wondered why my husband's picture was on the 99 cent menu...LOL!!!!

I really do get what you're saying though, and I agree with you on Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood it makes me want to vomit. I used to like Garth (never cared for Trisha), but now, not so much....he ticks me off.

I want to drop off Garth, Trisha, Lance Armstrong and Sheryl Crow all off on an island where they do nuclear testing... so I don't have to look at their moraless asses ever again.

I'm probably a little over sensitive, given my situation....but I had a burr up my butt about Lance and Sheryl LONG before this happened....HELLO his wife stood by him through CANCER....and he does this? What a loser.

I don't know, you think the public buys into all that crapola they spew???

I wanted to see the Oprah interview....just to see what they said, but I decided against it.

God Bless,

-Caren

I just want to cross-post something I posted at 4060 today, slightly edited for clarity, because it was a pretty big penny-dropping moment. Although it was suggested to me here that WH had already started his affair well before he left, I am still 99.999% certain that this is not the case. I am still positive that MLC preceded this A. The A is his self-medication and consequent addiction. But realizing just how big an effect his A has had on him is a major moment for me; I can no longer consider the OW as just a "symptom".

Anyway, here it is.

-------------------------

I’ve done a bit of obsessing over the past couple of days, going over my journals, my posts here [at 4060], and so on, reading, re-reading, and adding to the pages. Today, I did some math.

MLC is MLC is MLC, right? Right. It’s the same pain, the same difficulty, the same challenge, and yet… the more I read, the more I see just how incredibly NASTY men with an OW get. Today I started tracking things through my writings. When this first began, WH was following the MLC script: overt depression, making me responsible for everything, coldness, absent eyes, occasional rage, etc. But he didn’t get NASTY until the OW entered the picture. I had to backtrack it. I looked up the date he told me about her, and then b/c he said he’d been seeing her for a month, I looked it up. Lo and behold! The start of ALL the stuff I have been writing about here, the stuff that makes experienced, wise women wonder that he’s ever been a decent person. The EA had begun by the time I found my way here, I just didn’t know it at the time. The moment the OW entered the picture was The Birth of the Monster.

And yeah, I know the OW is a symptom. But when the OW helps give birth to a monster, then you can’t stop thinking along the lines of symptoms any more. You have to deal with the horrible reality of a monster in your life. Nothing, but NOTHING good can happen while there’s an OW in the picture. Ever.

I now believe that if this chippie hadn’t come along, my beautiful H would be here today. Instead, all there is in his stead is a monster, birthed by guilt and entitlement and sheer MLC lunacy.

---------------

[In reply to a reply] I totally understood this, I just wanted to point out that I think there are particular characteristics to MLC men who have an OW. Sure the OW is self medication, but (without getting into a philosophical argument) unlike other self-medications, this actually requires the most heightened act of betrayal on the spouse. It is infidelity, and quite clearly the breaking of a promise that people take very seriously. Some people have even gone so far as saying that the better the person before the A, the worse the behavior during it: not only do they have to demonize you and hold on to guilt and entitlement, but they also *have to act as bad as what they think they are for having the affair*.

MLC men self-medicate. They self-medicate to the point of the addiction. Psychiatry and psychology went through a bad period when they believed that the way to treat an addiction was to deal with the root of the problem; this was a shocking failure at treating addictions. After some years it became clear that when there's an addiction, the addiction is a problem all on its own, and also contributes to the underlying problem, so the thing to do is to the deal with the addiction first, and then deal with the underlying problem. And I have come to believe that this is the case with OWs. The OW MUST be out of the picture before anything else can happen. While she’s there, ain’t nothing happening. And while she’s there, the MLCers’ spouses MUST protect themselves because men – particularly men who were previously very good men – can act quite, quite insane.

You’ll recall some weeks ago that I posted my WH’s reaction of “Whatever,” when D18 finished a phone call with, “I love you!” I couldn’t BELIEVE this. I know it’s par for the course with the way he’s been, but still so far removed from the H I loved that I was left aghast. Your question of “Why do you love this man exactly?” was exactly what I was asking my own self, but I was also left wondering whether this was surely the worst MLCer to walk this earth, to treat his children this way? I took my query to MB, just because there are far more people than here. It turns out that my WH isn’t alone in this kind of behavior. It is common, common as muck, AMONG PEOPLE WHO HAVE AFFAIRS. So it is clear that it isn’t JUST MLC we’re dealing with when there’s an OW involved. It makes an already huge problem bigger than is imaginable.

Anyway... I feel like a bit of an idiot in hindsight. At the time, I remember being deathly afraid that he'd turn to someone. When he finally did, I couldn't make the connection between his nastiness and the OW. After all, they were "just friends" weren't they? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Reading back through my diaries, all the clues are there. I don't think I would have done anything different, because I don't regret my actions of the past nine months in any way, I just wish I'd known exactly what I was dealing with.

---------------------

[Replying to a post about how OWs know how to manipulate and entrap men] Well, in our case, stealing another woman's H is the ONLY way this OW knows how to get a decent man. Her last major R was her own marriage, which ended a few years ago. Her H left his OWN first wife and children for HER when she was just 17 years old. Believe it or not, I don't hold much rancor over the way she obviously is. The pattern for her was set so bloody early. She was 17, for crying out loud! What chance in he11 did she have of learning how to "create" a husband, rather than stealing a "ready-made" one?

... Any OW would have had the same effect. But given that all OWs also share a script (ie. no "wonderful" "angel" of a person messes with someone else's H), there are common denominators to ALL affairs.

... I have to admit though that doing the math I was very upset and crying a lot, because really, I was realizing that I was pipped at the post. By the time I discovered the fact that WH had depression, which led me to discover that he was in MLC, she was already in the picture, and I was just never, ever, EVER going to win. I tried to so, so hard to help him; he was suspicious of the help. I changed, but he didn't believe I changed, didn't trust me. Why? Well, now I know. This was transposition of the highest degree: he was suspicious of me because I should have been suspicious of HIM, he didn't believe me because HE was lying, and he didn't trust me b/c HE was untrustworthy. Nothing I did was ever going to be any good, b/c the OW was in the picture. And you know how hard I tried... I tried so hard, with the best of intentions, always. He said, "I can't believe you want to help me without wanting something in return, without wanting to get back together with me." Well... what he was saying was, "You can't have anything in return, I am involved with OW now."

LIGHTBULB MOMENT FOR YA, RT...YOU'VE GOT IT!!!!

I'll share with you recent things I've learned in conversations with my FWH.

He definitely had a MLC..affair with a young woman..he has said, prior to Recovery, "She SAVED me when I was suicidal" (YUCK)..the self-medication bit...

Well, recently he shared that when he began flirting with her, he was trying to RECAPTURE the FEELING that he had when we were DATING..As long as the A stayed at that level it was "FUN"...

Then came PLAN B and they had to do "REAL LIFE" and he tried to do "REAL LIFE" with his "true love". This is where SHE FAILED. This is why I understand the value of PLAN B now. I fussed about doing PLAN B but Mortarman urged me on...and I am thankful. What Mortarman said was so correct. The OW is clueless. She doesn't REALLY know YOUR HUSBAND. You've been with him all these years and you know all his quirks..how he folds his underwear... There's a limitation on the amount of PLAYACTING that she can continue to do...

My H has said that I HELD HIS HISTORY. With her, it was always a brand new day and he kept attempting to EXPLAIN his history to her. She wasn't there. I was...

See here goes the history thing again..... I keep thinking about that but for some reason it just does not seem to matter with my WH.

But one thing for sure as long as there is an OW nothing changes......


Hurting

Hurting:

He did not recognize or tell me about the HISTORY thing while he was still involved with the OW. This has been said in retrospect...

I understand Mimi......

I just have been thinking a lot about our history myself and wonder why he seems to forget it.....

So many questions and no answers .......

It'll be ok .....

I also wonder about the hold that our history will have over my WH. This is why:

About seven years ago, my H went into sleepwalking mode. It was a major depressive episode. It freaked me out and I sent him to a therapist, who said that he arrived just in time to avert a nervous breakdown. She began treatment, and it was the classic, "tell me about your childhood" stuff (incidentally, the WORST kind of therapy a depressive person can have). His reaction to his therapy was a violent turning away from his parents. Granted, he comes from the grandaddy of all dysfunctional families, but nothing prepared me for what he did. He rang his folks up and told them he wanted nothing to do with them for now. They weren't to ring or come round, or get him gifts for birthdays or Christmas; and this was to remain until further notice. My MIL rang me up in hysterics that night. Very calmly I said to her, "Give him time. Just give him time." It DID take time - one full year - before he started talking to his folks again. But the thing is... he never really resolved things with them. He's full of resentment and doesn't trust them.

This is, of course, how he also feels about me: he resents me and doesn't trust me. When this whole thing blew up, and before the OW entered the picture, this incident with his folks is the first thing that came into my mind. I could say that OK, eventually he DID approach his folks again and craft a relationship with them, but I have yet to see him set aside what he sees as the injustices of his upbringing. And you know... I can see exactly the same thing happening with us. I can imagine that he might decide he wants a normal R with me, just not a marriage; I can fully imagine that resentment and lack of trust will win out. That history will be EXACTLY what he wants to get rid of, seeing as it's so "traumatic" for him after all the "emotional abuse" I put him through. It is very frightening. Normally, I believe that "love will out", but in situations like this, I don't know that it holds true. I WANT it to, but I don't know that it ever will.

i wonder if this is true in my situation?

Hey everyone,

I've been doing a lot of thinking over the past week or so, and have come up with another theory which I think will probably be proven right (as a rule, at least) when I talk to enough people in the same sitch. (These aren't MY theories, btw, they're just things that are occurring to me as the pennies drop.)

I am 99.99% sure WH didn't leave because of an existing affair. I AM, however, 100% certain that he started - for whatever reason, but my bet is on MLC and the need for a feel-good antidote - looking for someone straight away. He started visiting single women friends within a few weeks. After a couple of months, he told me, "I've been visiting old girlfriends, trying to rekindle old relationships." Although his nastiness escalated with the introduction of the OW, it actually began at a very early stage, as soon as he began looking.

I now think that spouses begin to feel guilt, and as a result begin to act horribly towards their spouses, *as soon as they begin considering having an affair*. They don't need to do the deed to feel the guilt. In their minds, they've already betrayed you, or are preparing to betray you, so to justify themselves they get horrible and accusatory.

I've run this past a few women already and they all agree this is true in their case. What do people here think?

No further thoughts about this?

Backtracking the events, did your WSs nasty behavior begin with *serious thoughts* of infidelity, or the actual act?

In my case, it was the serious thoughts. Most definitely. It escalated with the actual deed, but mine was a classic case of the New Testament "commiting adultery already in his mind".

I think that my STBX's despair for our marriage/thoughts of infidelity are what began his rotten behaviour, too.

Just after Easter 2004, H went on a trip to Spain with OW and another colleague (they're teachers). At the time I was very ill, and was having tests in hospital. He was very worried about me. I think he started talking to OW about me, how worried he was, and that's when the EA began.

The PA (he told me) began just before Christmas 2004 - if he's to be believed. But in between Easter and Christmas, his relationship with OW was growing and growing, and he became more and more distant from me.

I am 100% certain that he trashed our marriage because of my illness (Crohns) and not because of the OW. He couldn't cope with it.

After my diagnosis, he became more and more distant, and never once asked me how I was feeling. Sometimes I would come out of the bathroom, having half passed out from pain, looking like a ghost. He didn't raise an eyebrow.

When he left, he told me he was leaving because I was like kissing a fridge, never wanted sex, never paid him any attention. All I could do was sit there with my mouth open.

I asked him if his leaving was anything to do with my illness. He became extremely angry, and denied it heatedly. Then I knew the illness had everything to do with it.

In a way, the betrayal of being left because of something I can't help - my illness - is worse than being left for another woman, although I guess STBX did both. It's helped me move on, though. He's a stinking coward who can't cope with the unpleasantness of life. Fine, let OW and him live in the rosy cocoon they've built around each other.

So yes - to answer your question. STBX became a stinker before the PA started. But he became much worse after it did.

Alph.

Alphin,

You're right in saying your WH is a coward for walking out on you when you were sick. Shows true character.

Apparently some people vows are more like this; "For better or ....., in ........ and in health, for richer or ......, until I do us part"

Sad but that's the impression I get from most WS's, when things get tough, "I'm outa here".

My FWW was a very different person too when she was satisfying OM. From her words and actions to me it felt like she had absolute hate for me. Even after the A's when she was still in the fog, there were times she would tell me to my face that she wishes I were dead. Talk about a dagger in the heart.

...which brings me to this point, After they say and do all that, how can the BS then in turn do all these nice things for them. I find it very hard. My W tells me she needs more romance, conversation, etc. from me but it makes it very difficult for me to do 'cause most of the time I want to do something for her, these words and how she treated me then come back to haunt me and ruins the moment.

Does anyone know how to surpass or overcome that?

Beat:

This is the painstaking and heartrending job of Recovery!

The key is for you to live in the moment..to live in the present..

You have to work on the PRESENT MARRIAGE..putting the past behind you...

Of course, you can't do this alone. Your wife needs to be willing to share with you in this process. Early on, she may still be in the fog. However, with time, she will be able to hear and respond more to YOUR NEEDS..

It does mean a lot that she CHOSE to be WITH YOU...Actions speak louder than words in a FWS...

I also have realized that it took time for me to heal..

I read some of my posts from last year and I HAVE COME A LONG WAYS...

TIME AND PATIENCE..the process takes TIME...