I know that all BSs have suffered terribly because of their WSs actions, but some of us have had to endure abuse, cruelty, and all kinds of horrible behavior on top of what is already an incredibly painful sitch. It is amazing that so many marriages can survive being put through the wringer like that.

Mimi, you said that it was a very important realization for you when SH told you your WH was no worse than anyone else's, that his behavior was no worse than anyone else's. I am wondering whether mine is, not because of what he's said and done to me, but because of what he's said and done to our kids. It's not just the neglect, and the fact that he appears to have replaced S10 with OW's D10. He lashed out at S16 when he was comforting me on the phone, calling him a "d***head", and there's what he's done to our DD. Back in July, he had an episode I can only describe as insane. He became irrational and took it out on me and ALL our three children. He disowned our DD; at one point he had both his fists up against her jaw. It was frightening, and all four of us were left quivering in distress and fear. Then there's what he did yesterday, as per my second-last post here.

Needless to say, this is COMPLETELY unlike the man I have loved for over two decades. (I never would have lasted the distance otherwise.) He used to be kind, gentle, loving, and was there for them no matter what. I can understand all the rage and sheer wackiness directed at me, but the children? No. It will not and cannot sink in.

So... what? Is he worse than other WSs? Is redemption possible for a man who does this to his children?

My Squid was as bad as any I have seen on here. She neglected and verbally abused our kids shamefully during her affair. When I pointed this out she said snidely " kids are resilient". She also told me that OM said his estranged kids from his three marriages had BENEFITED from divorce as it made them independent.. * sigh *

When Squid emerged from withdrawal she was tearfully ashamed of all her actions, towards the kids most of all. She is as soft as a bag o' cotton candy with them now !

I have let that go. It was the WS saying and doing those things not Squid.

She was never violent towards them however. If your WH holds his fist to you or your children again, call the police immediately.

Jennifer Harley does not seem very surprised at my H actions as bad as they seem to me and some others here. She says that it's all because of the addiction.

She has many other WS to compare mine to, and she still believes that the man i loved (not this monster) can still find his way back.

I agree, my FWXH was as bad as they get.
He had screwed up his life so badly and he could see no way out....he was a mess and par for the course of most WS's he took it out on his family.
I even had a Protection From Abuse Order for a period of time...and like you, it was hard to believe I was dealing with the same man I had loved for 20 years.

Believe it or not, the man I loved came back to us after a very long 2+ years! We are all healing....

Hang in there.

thank you for sharing this shugah!! I needed to hear it!!

Sad to say, RT...

My FWH did much the same as your WH or worse..without going into the gory details...

If you would ask him about this today, what he does remember he would attribute to INSANITY..he actually thinks of himself as having GONE CRAZY...

As is the case with Shugah's H, today, completely out of the fog, my H is just as sweet and kind as he was before the A. Plus, he is establishing a close bond with our oldest son..It will be more difficult with our youngest since he suffered more of the abuse...

I think of it as a MIRACLE every single day that I have my H back. Back then, I never would have thought the happiness that we experience now would ever be possible again. I stare at him in ABSOLUTE AMAZEMENT..He was a CRAZY MAN back them...plain and simple...

I know though that it also took A MIRACLE for me to withstand all that he was putting me through. I'm not sure how I did it....

Hang in there...

Believe that your H is no different than many heavily and strongly addicted, sick WSes....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I really do believe this is the key!

RT - some have postulated that the WS's degree of "weirdness" or "abductioness" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> is directly proportional to the degree of their artificial justification for their decisions.

In short, the weirder they are, the weider they have to be.

Also, the bigger "delta" between their normal selves and what they have become is a predictor of how fast and hard they may crash.

In short, the weider the better.

Actually, I think this point is one that sometimes is forgotten.

Yes, many Wayward Spouses are horrible and vile acting (causing bankruptcy, STD's, having other children, job losses, etc..) during their "addictive" affair(s)....BUT, many times I see that it is simply the tolerance of the Betrayed Spouse who is the ultimate litmus test for the marriage.

History has shown that the extreme majority of affairs die, and the Cheating Spouse usually (at least once) will want to come back to the marriage (not always, but usually)....BUT it is ultimately the Betrayed Spouse who has the power and decision making in the end. However, there is only so much addictive abuse that a person can take and still remain sane.

Mimi, I agree with you here (go figure), it must have been a modern miracle for you to have withstood everything that your WH did to you and your children and yet you stayed fighting for the marriage. I don't portend to understand it. I don't think it is "understandable". A case for a miracle if I have ever seen one.

Lem

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate you sharing your experiences, particularly when they are so painful.

You know, it's a measure of the weirdness of the sitch when we all compare notes of how nasty our WSs have been! How downright uncomfortable is it for me to take heart at the fact that someone else's S was horrible to their kids?! You have no idea! I'm torn. On one hand, it makes me sick to read what some of these WSs will do, and on the other, it makes me think that this is cause for hope. Sigh... My life - and thought processes - used to be NORMAL!

A particular note of thanks for your concern, Bob. There is NO WAY my W will ever raise his fists again. That day, I drew a line in concrete, not sand, and he knows he is not to trespass it. Besides, when he did this, I told the person he respects most, above the authorities: his shrink! She gave him a good telling off and he's under caution from her.

I am a FWW (and current BS), and I can tell you that my WH and I, who rarely even fought, much less yelled, became abusive in many ways towards each other after the As. It was very sad to see us deteriorate to that level, but we did.

This is a man who was rarely even mean to me. It is very hard to watch and you start to wonder if they can ever go back to the "real" person. I think they can, but they will not until the A is over. There is so much anger inside of them and they lash out at the easiest targets.

You are not alone--we all have been there.

all WS are horrible while they are WS - some just are a WS longer than others and manifest in different ways.

All still hurt the BS.....

You are definately not alone...and no ones WS is really worse than the next - how can you compare bad to bad???

It's the FWS that are better and some BS's are luckier than others to have really good FWS's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Improving and Dorry. I wasn't comparing my WH's behavior to me, the BS. It's absolutely true that you can't compare bad to bad. I was wondering whether others had had a FWS who had behaved horribly towards the children . Being nasty to the kids, IMO, is another thing altogether, and WH's behavior towards them made me think that perhaps he IS a monster, one out of the box, and beyond redemption.

does neglect count? mine are 4 and 5...I neglected them during my A, and my husband abandoned them completely during his...

A WS only puts HIM or HERSELF first while they are wayward - hense everyone - even children - get hurt

I think I said it before on Caren's thread: neglect IS abuse. So, yes I think it does count. I should have quoted me to myself earlier! LOL

Unfortunately, I can add neglect to WH's behavior AS WELL. Groan...

RiverTam, 5 years ago, when WH and I were counselling with SH, he actually did seem to think my WH was worse than average as he told me that despite being an advocate for marriage, he recommended that I divorce WH, mostly because of his extreme verbal abusiveness toward me.

My WH was also horrible to kids - kicked me out of the house after a failed reconciliation, then moved MOW in and kicked kids out the next day after they begged him not to let her come over. It was late in the evening, they walked to a neighbor's with no phone, and I didn't find out until the next day. He also raised his fists to the kids and called them terrible names. I was staying in some friends' spare room, so I rented a cabin at a local resort so we'd have a place to stay. I went to court ASAP, filed for divorce with a restraining order to get us back in the house and get him out. He also replaced kids with MOW's then 5 year old D, which was very hurtful to them. That was 4 1/2 years ago. I still have the RO and we've had NC for 3 1/2 years.

Although we haven't reconciled and are headed toward divorce court, I now feel sorry for WH more than angry. He has destroyed his life. He's abusing drugs and alcohol, he's lost his son and his mom and had no relationship with either when they died. He lost his professional license and hasn't worked since he moved in with MOW. I heard rumors about an OC, then that it might not be his, and most recently, that he and MOW had split up.

This is not the person he was, not the man I loved. I still pray for his recovery.

Thanks, Lemonman for encouraging me to rethink this statement:



I THINK OF THIS as being a MIRACLE but it really was not. It took HARD EMOTIONAL WORK..TONS OF COPING STRATEGIES. I wouldn't want River Tam or others to be expecting or waiting on a MIRACLE...

How I withstood my H's actions is REALLY UNDERSTANDABLE to many although NOT UNDERSTANDABLE TO YOU , Lemonman. Again, I am speaking with calmness and conviction..not any anger or animosity towards you. We have agreed that we find it difficult to UNDERSTAND each other.

I have been reading CAPTIVATING by the ELDREDGES. They say this best about the HEART AND DESIGN OF A WOMAN:

p. 33

...women are endowed with fierce devotion, an ability to suffer great hardships, a vision to make the world a better place.

No fear of me thinking that I have to do nothing to get through this! Already I have invested so much soul-work on myself as well as my children, my WH, and the sitch in general that it makes my mind boggle if I stop to analyze it. Besides, who's to say that this isn't what miracles are? What's the old cliché about God helping those who help themselves? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

GOOD POINT!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of miracles, my daughter saw something on television yesterday that said "Do you believe in miracles?" and she said "I think I do....Mom? Do you believe in miracles?"

I said "Yes, honey, I do."

I think it is a miracle any of us get's through this. People think miracles are something that happens quickly, out of no-where, and I suppose sometimes they do, but I think it is more of a test when you make your own miracles. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi-

I absolutely love the quote from the book

...women are endowed with fierce devotion, an ability to suffer great hardships, a vision to make the world a better place.

It actually made me tear up.

I find that everyday God gives me something to be hopeful for. I know that I am always thankful to him. I thank him for the beautiful years that I was able to have with my husband, and I can only pray that we will have a shot at that again.

River, I am sorry that your WH is treating your kids badly. My husband hasn't really ever gone that far.....he was *shorter* with DD11, but he is IMMEDIATELY remorseful for it.

I hope that your kids are okay. I am glad you are explaining his reactions to them the way you are.

You're a strong woman RT.

God Bless,

-Caren