Moira,

You are right..he chose poorly...he made the choice to have the affair, without any consideration for anyone's feelings except his own...There are no "reasons", they are all excuses to me...I have told him that I take responsibility for my part in making the M the way it was before he had the A...It was his choice not to talk to me...It was his choice to seek SF from someone else, instead of telling me how he felt...If he had told me, I would have been able to change my behavior and reassure him that I loved and wanted him...He did not give me the opportunity to change my behavior or work on the marriage...it is a painful situation all the way around... there are no winners, only losers...he used both me and the OW to suit himself...I don't blame her, but I do blame him for his actions...he betrayed me, she did not. She acted in an immoral manner by getting involved with a married man with young children, but she ended up getting hurt because she fell in love with him...they were both using each other...

Hey MamaFish
Sorry I havent written. I was not online all day yesterday. I had a couple of good days this week and then last night I just melted down. Maybe it was from not being here???

So funny to hear you say how old you felt. I told my H the same thing a few days after dday and OW was olny 4 y ears younger than me. I was walking through a store and caught a glimpse of myself and was really taken aback. I dont know if it was because I felt so much like a little girl that needed to be taken care of or because I felt so scared about starting over with my H or otherwise. I hadnt acted sexy in so long it was scary to think here I am with all this wasted youth.

My H has always told me I was beautiful. I dont know how much I believe him now or how much I believed him before anyway. The scars of everyones childhood are with them forever and mine stem from my dad telling me I wasnt thin enough the entire time I was growing up. It hurts to even type that now. What a thing to say to a little girl. That is probably the main reason I gave up on my appearnce. I figures he loved me inside so much what should it matter how pretty I was outside. I do thinkmost of the issue though was with him. He alwasy felt abandoned because he is adopted. He was feeling I abandoned him for the children. I never knew how much he needed me. I needed him so much to take vcare of me and make me feel accepted and all this time he needed the same thing. I look at us now as two birds with broken wings.

The thing is I dont think he truly cared about how I looked. Not that he wanted me to becopme a beast or really give up but after the A he really wanted me to be something else. Some sexy thing so I lost weigth although it really hurt me to think he cared so little about what was inside. About a year later I started to gain it back and he started contact with OW again just emails he says maybe a few phone calls. Coincidence? He says yes but it hurt him that he thought I wasnt into being a sexy couple. Even at my thinnest ther was something missing. He didnt want me anymore than before I had been that weight our whole marriage. His guilt was the reason for all these weight conversations we were having. I used to be so happy that he loved me anyway regardless of my weight now all my old insecurites will be there with him now.

So my point after all that self confession is that maybe you werent being stupid believing he thought you were beautiful. I would bet what made him cheat was something to do with his own issues and not your unpainted nails. Not that we all shouldnt look our best and I take resposiblity for that too. But comeon they are getting older too right? The fact being that with both our Hs it was thrown at them and they wanted to feel good. It was more important to feel good than to honor their marriage vows and I think until I fully understand where he was coming from I cant have any peace.

As far as the OW I would love to just see her to let her know seh didnt kill me. Which is how my H felt for 4 years. Maybe a good pity letter. I would lkie to hurt her in some way but I wont. I am a better person thatn she is and she is not worth the effort.

I havent told ONE soul here. I have fantasies about that too. Dday was 2 weeks before Christmas and when people would say "how was your christmas" I wanted to say "ok My H cheated on me" but I didnt. I am trying to be strong. I am glad I didnt I dont want anyone to hold it against him or us. He says I should do wahtever I need to to get better. He also says "you dont know there could be a lot of your friends that have had this in theri M". I think thats wishful thinking in his mind but maybe its just me feeling so alone in knowing this.

Thanks so much for being there and helping me talk it out.

Hi Hopingfor,

Thanks for being here for me too...it helps alot...I agree with you about our Hs telling us we were beautiful...I think we can and should believe them...but at the same time, I think the OW was exciting and new, and we couldn't really compete with that, not that we knew we were competing with them...but...

Hey I have to run into a meeting...will be back in a little while..have more to say...

Hi MamaFish-
If its new and exciting you cant compete but if you have a history and kids and love then it should be no contest or competition. So sad its not always like that. We had so much more than he did with her. Cant believe its in my life. So easy to blame the OW and not the love of my life bu the truth is no matter how much it didnt mean anything to him it meant something to me and he made that decision for both of us. Sometimes I think its going to hurt forever.

I wanted to mention that at our MC said yesterday that most A happen during a midlife crisis or the birth of a new child. How sad is that that at such a joyous time that men would be going through this panic phase when women are so excited and happy.

I had lunch with a friend yesterday whose sister in laws H is just freaking out (2nd child born in fall). He is just acting really weird. It just makes me wonder if he is feeling those same things.

Who knew all this stuff? Who would have expected it? I guess we will be smarter for sure and hopefully it will make our M stronger and better. Positive thinking!

Had to pop in here and say thanks for this thread......
I have only read page 3 so far but it has really helped me... I feel so many of the same feelings and the same thoughts!

As I am reading I just want to cry! So much in common!
It is crazy!

I am going to ask H today to sit down with me at this site and I want to read this thread to him and see what his thoughts are about this. What if anything is similar in his mind? Maybe this can help him to better answer my questions?

He has said before that he dosn't want me to print out things for him to read and he will not pick up the books I have (LoveBusters & HNHN). But that if I want to talk and share things with him he will listen. I hope he is willing to do this with me.

I want him to see the similarities. To hear the emotions and effects that this has caused others and to know that this is what is going on with me as well.

I am so sick and tired of him not helping me deal with this recovery and avoiding talking to me about the A. I want tomove forward.
The only time we confront anything is when I initiate it with a direct question. He offers nothing, elaboartes on nothing. I am always left feeling short changed by the conversation or answer he may or may not give.

Thankyou for sharing, your words help so much to know we are not alone in this nightmare we have found ourselves in.
(unfortunately)

Be Well,

okay, I'm back...

I get your point about the A being more about his issues and problems than whether or not I did my nails, wore makeup, etc...Like you too..it was more about your H than your weight...I think that the WS starts to get very picky with the BS during the A (at least my H did) and I felt like I could do nothing right....it seemed that he would turn everything against me to make himself feel better about what he was doing, to justify it in his mind...Like, well my wife won't wear lingerie, see how she is, she doesn't want to have sex...and the OW is there to say, you poor thing...They just projected their guilt onto us to make them feel better about their choices...it sucks! I had enough problems with selfesteem before, and now this...and he tells me that he felt rejected by me...how does he think it feels to be totally rejected in every way, and not even know what is going on??

I think that they both wanted to feel good and that was more important than their vows...they felt entitled to feel good...I think that my H did it the first time out of anger at me and she was there...then it became easier because he had already broken the vows and nothing happened (I didn't know, so what was the problem?)...it only got tough for him when she started acting like his wife and making demands on him...he was like, wait a minute, I already have a wife..we agreed it was just sex....I think he thought it was okay to do it because he knew he was never leaving me...

Don't contact OW...you ARE a better person than she is...I think you said that her H divorced her, so she is alone...the fact that you and your H are still married and she is not is probably killing her slowly anyway. You should make it clear to your H that he should not be contacting her at all...

I would say don't tell anyone now...it's something for you to deal with privately and here...you don't know if others have had As but you don't really want to know if they did, do you? If they didn't, they may make you feel worse...As I said, I told 2 friends...both had known my H since we first started dating...one is having an affair with an older married man now...she is single...she listened to me and tried to help me for awhile, but her attitude was get over it...she has withdrawn from talking to me about her life because she has seen how devastated I am, and it hits too close to home...I never "approved" of her affair but never was judgemental towards her..after DDay, I have first hand knowledge of how destructive this relationship of hers is..but she did listen to me when there was no one I could talk to...I didn't even talk to her for about 2 mos after DDay...My other friend was supportive and said she would be there for both of us, could tell he was remorseful and in alot of pain (she only visits about once/yr and could tell something had radically changed just by looking at my H)...she says I am handling this so well..this is the side I portray...Inside, I don't know how I survived...if it weren't for my kids keeping me busy, I don't know how I would have done it.

I find this board to be a great place...I don't have computer access at home, so can only go online at work...next week, I am off because my son has a break at school...I think I will be going to the library to get my fix of MB and check in...I try to be careful of the posts that I read because some get very depressing...over all, I get alot of support from reading and posting...

I wish I knew about MB years ago...I stumbled upon it by accident and I''m so glad I did...I listen to coworkers in the office complaining about their wives, and want to tell them about meeting ENs etc...The only thing that gets me through some times is thinking that it will make our M stronger...My H tells me if we separate, she wins...He wants to make our M better so that he can tell our kids someday to never cheat on their spouses...I just wish that he was working harder at the rebuilding part..

Sorry for the above post...I'm trying to figure out how to use these darn Quotes and ended up quoting a blank part and adding my comments below...and quoting my comments...LOL

Harmonie,

Glad to hear from you...I am having similar problems with my H about avoidance, and not discussing the A...Look up a post called BS...be still posted by Ark...I asked Ark for some advice and was given a good plan to stop asking to know it all at once...read it and see if it will help you...I 'm at a loss now...I want to know everything but will try to take Ark's advice and go one step at a time...

I hope that your H will listen to you...Mine is the same, I print all this stuff out and he won't read it..maybe I will try to read it to him and see if that helps.

Welcome Harmonie
Hi MamaFish
Sorry we all have to be here. I too am having problems with my H understanding my need to know. Let me ask you all are you asking the most graphic detail questions or is it just me? If I could see in as a movie I would. Last night I asked "when you slept next to her did you have your back to her?" Its been 4 years and he barely remembers. I find it hard to believe that the only person he has had sex with besides me in the last 17 years he could forget so easily. I also think he is sugarcoating things to make me feel better. I wish he would read MB. He has read some posts...mostly to make sure I am not ready to jump off a bridge. It bums him out he is ready to move on with life and love me the best he can now.

His thought is that its so over and he wants to focus on loving me which is wonderful I am just still in a whirlwind of ^&%&. He just called and I told him I needed a hug. I just had a converstion with my mom about her friends. She has known them for a couple of years. The H is really personable and the W is kind of cranky. My mom has told me she is always watching him like a hawk. Well they came fora visit and the H told my dad that he cheated on her a while ago and thats why she does that. I asked my mom how long it had been and she said "Well I dont know 10-15 years maybe...thats not that long ago" my heart sank and then she said "you know once a cheater always a cheater". I am so sad right now because the truth is 2 months ago thats how I felt. Now I just hope to God thats not true. What a crumby day. I feel lkie curling up in a ball. Again like you if it werent for my kids I think I wouldnt get out of bed sometimes.

Anyway thank god for this website. I can get everything out. Regarding your post MF I did so much feel lkie there was something wrong with me. And since a couple of months after he started getting on me about my weight I reverted back to my childhood thoughts of not being good enough. That is so hard for me to think about. My H tried to make me feel bad to relieve his guilt like "youre not so perfect anyway". Some of our fights he would say "You have no flaws" or "you are so perfect" I thought he was nuts b/c I feel I have plenty. Now I know it was him thinking I was better than him b/c he had become the ultimate "bad husband".

I asked my H if he was angry with me he says no. I just cant picture doing that to someone you love. It would make more sense if he was angry however misdirected. I did want another baby it turned out to be twins. I did have easy pregnancies with my 1st 2 and the twins were much more difficult. He really had to kick in. He was overwhelmed but he says not angry. I know what you are saying I cant look at the pics of those beautiful babies with out thinking of him doing that at that time. I also feel so bad for my little girls because they are 4 and have never seen their daddy relaxed and comfortable. They are just getting to know now how wonderful he is. He was always afraid he would be out. I think he distanced himself from them because it would hurt too much if he got close. So much wasted time for such little instant gratification.

As far as the OW he says he had lunch with her in 2004 and she blamed him for her boyfriend (not her H) leaving her. He called my H and my H didnt lie. Her job is in jeapordy (they are in the same industry). He says he knows she is in a bad place and has been for a while. I hate that a person like her could have caused such havoc in our lives.

Weird about you Hs grandmother dying my Hs mother died during the A. It was a major event for him. I always thought that was the issue. I will be away starting Tues but I think I will have internet access...definately not as much...I actually have been thinking about that all day how I am going to survive with out talking about this all week!!!! If you get this before you leave work I will look for you next week hopefully we can both hook up with a computer. Have a great and peaceful vacation I am hoping to so the same!
HF

Hi Hopingfor,

well, I snuck out (left the kids with H to go out and told him I needed a break)...so I am at the local library..I need to get some of this out...Had a crying fit last night, had too much wine, my H was out. he came home and I was crying in bed. He didn't say anything at all. I was hoping he would give me a hug but he didnt'...today I am a mess again and told him that I don't think he is trying and that he isn't committed..I said I am hurting so bad inside and he said that he is too., and that he cant' take my threats of leaving him....I totally LB'd but that is how I feel. it has all balled up inside of me with nowhere to go...so I had to get out of the house...went to walmart, bought baby food (my little one is just starting stage 1 foods <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...and I wanted to come here to vent and get some feelings off my chest...I feel better...listening to songs on the radio...this was the first one I heard and how appropriate...you are my age (I'll be 39 in April) so if you are in the USA, you should know Guns N Roses

Sad woman
take it slow
It'll work itself out fine
all you need is just a little patience

you and I have what it takes to make it...


THat really got me...it's true...we both start LBing..I'm going to go back and try try again...maybe we can do the EN stuff tonight...

Now, let me comment on your post...I was so busy getting stuff done at work yesterday so I could go home on time, that I didn't check in again...

I asked some graphic sex details, but not many...I want to know it all...he has done some things a bit "differently" since DDay, mostly in recent weeks, that I have told him I liked...I KNOW he must have done them with her and it sucks to think about when you are trying to enjoy it, but it's like a voice in my head that says, did she like this? I hate it...I never asked him about if he faced her when they slept...good question...I think you were going to read the post I mentioned from schoolbus..she asked her H to tell her his story and then stopped him for details. I'm trying to get there...I did say something about the fact that she must have had some great techniques with blowjobs and he said no she had no technique, meaning I was better...other than that he has just made stupid comments to me like, after we did it in the shower a month ago, he said we never did it in the shower...I guess he doesn't remember but it's been some years...maybe your H doesn't remember details after 4 yrs too, if it was just run on the mill sex...he truly may not remember, or he may try to not hurt you, hard to say...

I don't think that once a cheater always a cheater is true...i think that your H and mine realize what they almost lost, and how it was not worth it for a little bit of sex...

My first and last pregnancies were pretty easy...I was on bedrest for my 2nd, because of low fluid issues, and my H was great...for this last one, I think he thought I could handle anything and everything..he always says I'm so strong..so he didn't help me with anything...I love my daughter so much and he says that she looks like him because I hated him and fought with him so much...I said i don't hate him...i still don't hate him...i'm just sad right now...my H distanced himself from me during the pregnancy and I think he felt he didn't deserve to be there...he knows he didn't take care of me the way he should have...I didn't eat right, and this baby was the smallest we had (almost 7 lbs, still fine) and he blames himself for not being there....she also was in the NICU for 4 days due to a high fever after delivery ( i also had a fever after delivery) and he was still distant with me...when I had to leave her in the hospital, and they released me, I cried and he was so cold that he couldn't even comfort me...My H was opposite yours, he would say cruel things to make it seem like I was so demanding that it justified what he was doing to me...when I think of it, I get so upset...he was always so critical of everything I did...

When My H's grandmother died, he withdrew from me...we had to go out of state for the funeral (one year ago feb 10).. I thought it was grief and gave him space...he says he withdrew from everyone but when we returned, he went back to the OW and stayed with her...there were alot of things going on in our lives at the time...I just wish he could have communicated to me, but I guess he took the easy way out to escape his reality..

I'll be in touch next week too...I hope you have a good week...I feel better now that I have been on here and got to vent a bit...

Thanks for listening!

Hey MamaFish
Had a bad night last night myself so I know how you feel. I am so suspisious of what his relationship with OW was I asked a bunch of LB questions he hates to answer. Specific graphic detail questions. Wanted him to hold me and apologize but I mad him angry which made me angry which led to more and more LBs. Horrible horrible fight! Went on for hours. I just dont understand how he can not get what I need. Just be nice and eat &^^% for a few minutes so we can get on with our night. He doesnt fight fair says stuff he doesnt mean. "I never should have told you"..."how is this going ot work". When its over he tells me whatever it takes he willbe there but when I am feeling low he cant comfort me. It hurts him to much to see what he has done I guess. I REALLY wish he would take advantage of the MB webstite/books. He says ya ok but never does it. It makes me feel like he doesnt want to help make us better. He just keeps saying we will be fine.

Of course I know the Guns and Roses song never listened to the lyrics before. How fitting. Not only am I in the US but I read you posts to schoolbus and can you believe it I am in New Engalnd too! Weird the similarites keep going on and on.

Funny about the bj comment. H has always said he thought I was great at it. More so over the last few years. I even caught him drunk one night telling his friend how great I am at it!!! I think the 1st night he told me how HORRIBLE she was at it. All teeth. He said he couldnt believe it. He didnt even realize it could be so bad. He said he gave her the tap (Sienfeld joke) and the next time let her do it agian because he just couldnt believe it could be so bad. HA HA. I love that. All this pain and agony for a few nights of mediocre sex and then she turns out to be a complete skank. That gives me such hope that he will learn his lesson from this.

It wasnt about the sex for my H it was about feeling important. He told me today she would hang on his every word like I did in the beginning. She didnt nag him to pick up diapers or burp a baby etc. And I bet she didnt have leaky nipples and a baby on each breast like I did either. How could I have been so wrong about what was important to him? I really thought I was moving the world by taking care of these kids and the house etc.

I do think my H doesnt remeber a lot of stuff. I am constantly correcting him on so many things that have happened in the past. I guess its hard for me because I would never forget something like that he keeps saying it wasnt memorable or intimate it was just an ego boost.

My H always told me I was strong too. After the twins my 2 boys came to visit and later that night came down with a high fever which they passed to the twins. They were one week old when we went to the ER for spinal taps and IVs etc. Spent 3 days there and then the fluid in my stomach started to break up while I was in the pedi unit. The ER doc told me at 4 am that since I had had a csection like 10 days earlier it was probably a blood clot and they could put me on blood thinners but I could die that day (nice bedside manner). Turned out to be nothing but I remember walking out of that hospital the next day thinking we did it. We survived all this! What a team effort me and H. Now I knowhe was flirting with her at hte time and probably thinking of having sex with her. Thats a tough one to get over.

I do think my H was cruel to me at times to. We do have a very loving relationship but when we would fight and he felt threatened he protected himself by telling me Iwas crazy..blowing things out of proportion etc. Now I knowit was his guilt. Big prices we pay us BSs.

Glad to hear your little one is on solids that is such a fun time. I loved trying all those new foods on them!! At the very least you can enjoy your kids every day and you H is there. I do think it would be so much harder if he werent. Its so hard for me to be a grown up during this time but I know I need to be (ie no LBs--just makes things worse). So glad to vent. Hope to hear fromyou soon!
HF

"When its over he tells me whatever it takes he will be there but when I am feeling low he cant comfort me. "

My H has told me that it is not possible for him to comfort me as he is the one who is causing my pain. Good one that. I would have thought that this might make him think twice about continuing to cause the pain?

Georgina

Hoping and MAMA,
Can I join ya....
We are all up here in New England it seems.. and I have twins also, girls, and have 2 others..son and daughter too.
Maybe we are twins..lol
My FWH also loves to sugar coat the A, and not tell details. He gets ugly when I ask, and tells me either I dont know, or he forgot too.
Weird is all I can say..
JE

Georgina
Hi..I dont know your story but it sounds like you H is still involved in an A??? He must feel so much guilt that he cant comfort you. That really stinks. It seems the more I need my H the less I get him. He doesnt want to see me in pain but you are right...he caused it. I am trying to be understanding but when he pulls back at the most difficult times for me it is really rough to be a grown up!

JE-
Of course join in. So strange about the NE thing. Hopefully we wont all have to move to have faithful Hs haha. I was just thinking about MamaFish saying her H didnt remember the shower thing. That would be so typical of my H too. He really doesnt remember stuff. Its hard for me because if I had ever had an A it would have had to be EA as well. For my H I really am starting to "GET" that it was just an act for him.

Its so hard for me not to ask all the gory details. I think for me if I know everyhting I can be at peace with what it was. If I figure out how much he knew about her then I can figure just how intimate he was. He says he doesnt want to think about it anymore. Thats all I can do. The truth is even if he did tell me everything from day one it would be his interpretaion of the events not hers or thet reality of what happened. I guess I want to know so that it never happens again so maybe I will know if there is a next time???

He says NEVER NEVER NEVER. He hated himself for this. I knowthis is true. I am just so scared to trust him. I dont even remember myself before dday. I have changed so much. Sometimes the pain is so unbearble I want to scream and cry and curl up in a ball. Other times I think ok this is ok its over hes still here he says he loves me ok this will all be ok and a distant memory someday. The next day I think I will never get over it. I am hoping it will get better. We have been closer than we have been in a long time. He feels like the man I married again now that its out in the open and he knows I still love him. Still I hate that he made this decision that cahnges my life in so many ways. I fear I will never be truly happy again. I have always appreciated life and family and I can be so bitter now.

Oh well another day closer to healing. Our MC says only time and neither of us doing anything stupid on that time will heal us. So if I think positive I accomplished something today. Hey does it get easier with the twins too?? Mine are CRAZY. My boys were so easy these two are nuts! I cant imagine them at 14. We will have to put bars on the windows!
HF

Hi Gals, (Hoping and JustEmpty),

I'm back..it's been a few days so forgive me...I'm glad to read these posts, makes me feel better, alot of similarities...

That is funny about the three of us being in NE...could it be the water?? I'm in CT and the weather here has been great...getting cold today though. At the library so only have a little bit of time...haven't had the chance to come back until today.

Well, let's see, where do I start? GNR song--I never really listened to the lyrics either...seems there are ALOT of songs with double meanings now, even Tv shows and movies, alot that I can't watch anymore...

Hope, I understand what you mean about being in the ER and now you are thinking about your H flirting with OW...my H called the OW right after I delivered our daughter...He excused himself from recovery (natural delivery) to make phone calls...he called my mother, his mother, and then OW...when I asked him why, he said he was calling people that he knew would be up at that hour (4 am..she worked graveshift)...of course, she screamed at him about why was he calling her to tell her this (she refused to look at pics of his kids because she said that she would never meet them--yet she was in love w/ him but wanted him to give up his kids for her)...A week after delivery, I was up and doing too much, and ended up bleeding very heavily and the dr put me on bedrest so H had to take care of the kids and me...at the time, he seemed distant and now I see that he probably had wanted to go out to see her, but then he wasn't able to leave me...I hate thinking of all this, it makes the memories tainted by what was going on in the background, and I was unaware of it all...

Cruelty of the WS...here's a good one, my H would tell me that we were so close to a divorce, and I didn't even realize it...this was at the beginning of his A...when I bring it up now and ask what he meant, he can't answer.

I also thought I was doing what was important to him by taking care of the house and the kids...in fact, we were filling their needs for domestic support and family responsiblity...these are the ones the wives fulfill..they aren't the "fun" ones and these are the ones that they end up realizing how much they need them...they didn't realize at the time...

I'm trying to comment on everything I read above, but not sure if I will get it all..On knowing the details, I feel like I could write a book...so many opinions but I agree with Hoping, I feel like if I know it all, then I can move forward...reading threads, I have learned that keeping secrets is just protecting the relationship with OW and building walls with the BS.. The truth hurts, of course, but better to get it out now then later...that is my feeling...I always feel better when he tells me honest answers, because many times, my imagination of what happened is worse than what was real...for example, my story above about how he called her when the baby was born...in my head, I thought, he must love her if he 's telling her this...why else would he call her? and it was only when he told me that she was angry, that I felt better...I still think there was more to it, but I was glad that she was mad (petty I know, but it makes me feel better).

I have some progress to report since my last post...I did go home and we called a truce...the next day, Sunday, was OW's birthday and a year ago they were just in the beginning of their A...but I forgot it was her bday until Monday...I completely passed it over...I think that is why I was having such a tough time last week, dreading that day in my mind...H and I had a long talk on Tuesday with no kids around, and I told him...You know, He didn't even realize it or give it a thought.. he said, now I see that you may be thinking of things that were going on last year at this time...he doesn't think about this at all unless I bring it up.

Anyway, it takes time to get your H to open up...I have LBed him so many times when he starts to answer questions,by saying "didn't you think about me? and how could you do this?" type remarks. There is a great poster here, Ark, who said to me, take it slow...plant a seed in your H's mind that it will be good for him to be honest with you, and change your approach, without expecting anything in return at that moment...well, it worked...this time, he started to talk about OW and I just listened, asked questions from time to time but I wasn't judgemental or emotional...if he stopped, I would either ask a question or let him continue...I think he felt safe in talking to me...I forced myself to be calm and to focus on HIM and not on ME...

We still haven't talked about the gory details of sex, but I think that we will get to it...and I will get to a point where I will tell him what I felt during his A. He also can't talk about it for long...he gets upset...like when we were talking about how As start, and I said, talking about personal issues, like dissatisfaction with the wife, etc...he got up and said "the getting to know you stage...I'm very familiar with that"...then he withdrew and that was the end of our talk...


If you can get your H to open up, do not LB on him...you have to assure him that you are safe and will not get mad...Also, tell him then, or afterward, that you appreciate his honesty and know that it is difficult but you feel better after hearing the truth...this will make him more likely to confide in you again.

Best of luck to you...I will be at work on Monday and will have computer access so it won't be so long in between posts...

Hey Mama Fish
I am still alive. Just got back last night from Fl vacation what a shock to be back in the NE! Its COLD here!

We had a good time. My parents are down there so they watched the kids for us while H and I escaped to this beautiful resort for the night. Very nice. Not to say I didnt have many many melt downs. Boy would I like a few days or a week off from all this stuff thats in my head.

I did get on my mmoms computer Mon night and found this weird thing on my Aol account from the year he had the affair a people search engine for the state in which she lives. he says maybe he did search her he doesnt remember. He says that she chased him so why was he searching for her? He says he wanted to know what kind of person he was dealing with. Sadly the search was right after my search for baby announcements. We got into it preety good that night.

As long as I am crying and weak he is ok with my pain. But as soon as I get mad and i do start the "how could you do this" he gets so angry and defensive and says things he doesnt mean (his words after) like "its never going to get better" etc. Honestly I feel like I need to get angry b/c I really do feel like how could he? It makes me so mad that he shamed me and our marriage and I do feel sometimes like I will never be normal or whole again.

Anyway I hope to hear from you soon I hope your week off went well!
HF

Hey hopingfor,

Oh, wow, coming back here after FL...it has been very cold all week.. and snow tomorrow here anyway...I can't complain though because our winter hasn't been too bad...that is nice that you and your H were able to have a night alone...very important...I find it so hard to get alone time with him...

I was wondering where you were...Our thread was buried...I'm back at work now and doing okay. My week off was much needed. I had not had more than a day or two off since my maternity leave ended in Sept...and you know, that is not relaxing by any means. I really needed some time for just me even though I didn't do too much of anything. It was nice not to have to do anything.

I know how you feel about getting angry. Sometimes I think I am not angry enough. But my H is the same as yours. He gets angry and defensive when I get upset. When I cry or get mad, he gets defensive. If I am calm, he is Okay and can talk about things...He doesn't understand how I feel..He thinks that because he was not leaving me, that everything is Okay.

Let me ask you a question I have been asking myself lately. Are you in love with your H or just love him? I love my H, but I am struggling with knowing if I am in love with him...do I feel passion for him like in the beginning? No, not really. The SF has been good, but that is tainted by thoughts of her. I want to tell him that I feel neglected by him during all of his A, that even if it was just for sex, he had someone to hold, to kiss, to make love to...someone to talk to and laugh with. I didn't have that. I was just alone with the kids to talk to. That is one of the hardest things to deal with. I didn't have anyone to run to, like he did. No escape, just the responsibilities.

Oh, I just wanted to comment on the AOL search...I understand your reaction to it, but that is going to be the hard part...Going over all the stuff in your head that was going on when he was having the A and you didn't know...I think of family outings that we had that I thought were happy ones...then remember that he had to leave to go to work early. I remember when my car broke down on the highway when I was like 6 mos pregnant with both kids in the car and no cell phone. I was on my way to work and had just left him, he was going to walmart in the next town...by the time the police saw me and called for a tow truck, it was over an hour later...the tow truck driver called my H on his cell phone. He was an hour away at the gym near where he worked, so could not come to help...That was what I believed then. Now I know that he had left to go see OW, not to go to the store....My mind races--were they in bed when I called? I haven't asked about this time...there are just so many, I can't dwell on it. I'm sure I will ask one day...Maybe I'll be wrong about one of the times...so far, I've been pretty right.

I'll check in with you later.

Hey MamaFish
Yes I can definately say that I am in love with my H. Sometimes I think it would be easier if I werent so in love with him. But I do think you and I are in different places.

First of all for me it has been 4 years of watching his guilt eat him alive (even though I didnt know what it was). There were plenty of times I told him he was spiraling out of control...his driving, drinking, failure to pay the bills on time...he just didnt seem like he cared about anything. Now that the weight has lifted I can tell that he is a differnt man.

On one hand I will kill myself trying to remember what was happening in our lives and on the other its hard to imagine who we were then. My H says he doesnt even know who he was when he was having the A. Unfortunately for you it will take time (and I imagine lots of it) for him to prove to you that he is a different man. I do believe that God gives you what you can hadle and I think that is why I found out so much later because at that time I had all I could handle. That is not to say that I will ever trust my H again but I think its easier for me to know it was so long ago and that he hated himself for it for so long. I guess in a small way he has already proven something by staying faithful for the past 4 years.

Secondly your kids are so young. I remember those days not so long ago ...its all consuming and to have to devote energy to this too is a lot to handle. Also because of the kids I am sure you have no time together. It gets so much easier as they get older to just put on a movie and go upstairs to talk or fool around. I can imagine thats close to impossible for you now. I remeber our 10th anniversary (which now I know was during the A). H surprised me with a limo to the hotel we were married in. He arranged sitters and even packed for me. I was completely surprised. I was not really that into it though. I was stressed b/c of the babies (the twins were 5 months old). I was consumed with my responsiblities and couldnt let go and relax.

If you asked me then if I was in love I probably would have said yes and thought of my kids 1st. What a mistake I made thinking the family was as much his joy as mine. The truth is he needed romance when I was happy with parenthood. He even said he missed what we had and it was always so great before that he was looking fo that feeling again. Its hard to decide if I shoud be angry with him for not being like me...strong and responsible or at myself for losing me.

So my point after these 2 points is that you are under a lot of stess right now. Were you in love with him before dday? I am sure its hard to answer. I just dont think its a question that you can answer right now because of all the hurt you are feeling and all the pressures you are under too. I hope that helps dont give up hope I think if you still love him when all these things pass or dull it will be easier to be "in love".

H printed out EN questionnairre we are doing it tonite I cant wait. I really want him to get involved in our healing but he is so ready to move on from this ( he is 4 years ahead of me lucky him). I have asked him to post about his frustrations with my pain and he promised he would but doesnt I printed stuff out for him to read but he doesnt. I am so sick of doing all this work myself its frustrating. Sometimes he spies on me here so maybe he will read this and take some action ha ha. Will let you know tomorrow how the questionairre went! Have a good night.
HF

Hi Hopingfor,

How did the EN questionnaire go? I will write more in a bit.

Hopingfor,

Thanks for your post. You are right. We are in different places but there are some similarities too. Was I in love with him before DDay? Yes, it' s hard to answer. I think that I was, I was not so concerned back then about always feeling in love with him. I felt like we were committed to each other through the hard times...I do have to say, similar to you, that I did notice a change in him after his last contact with her on 9/12...That month in between that and DDay, he was staying home more, but very depressed, and anxious, something bothering him but he wouldn't say what it was--just that it was something at work. Guilt-ridden like your H. He even asked me, Are you still my friend, no matter what? and I answered yes, and begged him to tell me what was going on, but he wouldn't (or couldn't). He was also drinking alot more than usual. But, at the same time, I thought things were improving because he was home more...I didn't have that feeling I had since February that something was going on. So, to me, I felt like we had kind of gotten over that bump. I was back to work after maternity leave, so the $ problems would improve. I really felt like things were getting better...We have been together for so long that I didn't think much of this at the time. I let the kids and all the other stress take priority over the romance also...It's easy to fall into that trap.

Now, I am frustrated because we have not been making any progress on our MB. He told me that he would do anything I wanted after DDay. We went to MC a few times...In the last 2 mos, we have done none of the MB stuff. We did the EN questions, but still haven't discussed them with each other. It's hard to make the time to do it, but I know we have to. Part of the problem is that Yes, I have alot to handle with the kids and all, but I am STILL doing most of it on my own, like always...He does help here and there...I feel like our M has to be better in order to have something positive come out of the A, but I am losing my patience....


I also think God only gives you what you can handle...I think I did not find out about the A until after I had the baby, because I would not have been able to handle it all. I was still working f/t. I think I would have really been in a very very bad place. All along, I felt suspicions, as I have posted before, but he denied it so much, and I had no real proof. He was afraid to tell me because of the baby. I was afraid to push it and was in denial because of the baby. I guess that's what was mean to be...We named our baby Janie (after My H's grandmother) and someone told me that her name means Gift from God...I couldn't agree more...

I agree with you that your H has proven himself by being faithful for 4 years. I also understand how you are feeling now. He has been able to prepare for this and you are just working through all the stages. It's good that he is supportive of you during this time.

Well, I have to get back to work now. I'll check in later this afternoon. I am on the rollercoaster today and have to get my mind off this for awhile.

Thanks for listening...