He has never contacted her after dday. Actually he told me on dday he HATED her and maybe 2-3 weeks later he said he couldnt care less about her...of course now I hate her. He is all cured of his hatred and resentment he says because he knows he is not going to lose me over this foolish thing he did. Now its time to work on me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I am confused. You didn't find about the affair years ago when the boyfriend was calling your house?

How DID you find out?

Mel,
the OW wrote her a note (Dec 2005) telling her to watch her H when he travels......Hoping told him and he confessed to all.

That is how I understand it.

I think there is something really odd about him contacting her over the years just to 'stick it' to her. This makes me very uncomfortable. There is no need to do that if he has her out of his life.

I wonder what others think about that......it just seems really strange to me....

Good luck to you! I hope you can rebuild your M.

Daisy

WD, I caught that part, but how did she NOT KNOW about the affair years ago when the OW's boyfriend exploded and called their house and sent mail? This is what is confusing me.

From what I read I believe he is being honest.

As for him to contact her maybe he kind of felt used by her. He developed that hatred feeling toward her because he felt guilty and weak, and instead of blaming his M or you to relieve his guilt, he blamed her for what he did.

If he had behaved as so many WS while having the A or after, like turning their guilt into their lives, You would have noticed something was wrong. Add to that he was afraid she would tell you, so he had to be strong and feel superior over her. You never suspected because he was never trully involved with her.

He failed you and his own principals with the affair, she used him, she knew his situation, I bet she was the one chasing him, she took advantage of the situation. She probably even told him and made his mind as to be perfectly legimate for him to have an afair and that no wrong would come out of that.

I hope you understand what I am saying, (I am not good with words) but I believed he always loved you, he never had any doubts about it, he never even questioned it, and you were lucky she was really a bad character, those destroying feelings of guilty didn't affect your M.


But, from my very own experience, I believe you should tell him how important it is for him to openely tell you everything. He hates and doesnt want to talk about it. He's ashamed most of all, it's not easy for him. Tell him you dont want to blame him or accuse him, you just need to understand, better the truth then the unknown.

He has to understand that you (and him) can only leave it behind if he does it.

I dont think there's much more to be said, but prepare your self to feel more hurt, but believe me, it will be much easier after some time to forget it.

Because you fear his emotional envolvement, and he feels silly and so ashamed that he migh have had any emotional feelings (not love for sure) for her. Not saying he had them, but eventually he migh had them at the time.

Wish you all the best.

WD- You are correct.
ML- he called my Hs cell he was calling and hanging up on me at home to scare H he also sent the letter anoymously. I didnt know any of this till after dday

LW- I love what you wrote. It put it in perspective for me what we have been trying to talk out.

He definatley blamed her. Dday all he talked about was her manipulating him and the boyfriend and the shame of the whole situation. I kept thinking what is he talking about didnt he just tell me he had an A what do I care about this whole situation?

I could absolutely tell he was struggling with something but his mom died around the same time he was breaking it off with her and I thought it was because he missed her.

He said she chased him even told him she would bring the condomns. He likes the attention and in his own words it was a power trip. She lied to him saying her H didnt even talk to her and that it was her first A too.

I do feel lucky she turned out to be of bad charaacter (not to mention he said the sex was terrible and he could get the guilt out of his head) but I do feel the guilt ate him up and it did affect our M in many ways but not our love for each other.

We are arguing again right now about his impatience with my questions. I just have so much info in my head I cant keep it straight. I wish he would be more understanding.

HopingFor, do you want to send him here to us? If he comes and posts a thread about his impatience we can help him out.

I have asked him to post and he promised me he would last week. I asked him again for Valentines Day if he would he said he will so we will see.

Last night was a pretty good fight. He wants to not think about it and not talk about it. If I dont talk about it all I do is think about it. It becomes huge in my head and I think he is evading the truth and keeping hurtful things from me. He keeps telling me he doesnt remember (4years ago) and that whatever happened it was never intimate or emotional. I will ask specific gory detail questions to make my own determination like "in between times in 1 night did you watch TV, talk...if talked laying down or sitting up? walk around naked etc" am I being unfair? Should I just accept what he tells me that it meant nothing to him? Dont I have a right to know exactly what he did? It feels like I should its my life too everything he does or has done has been and will be a part of my life right?

Dear HopingFor,

I understand where you are coming from...My H had his PA when I was 3 mos pregnant, and caring for a 2 and a 5 yr old. I also put the kids first and he felt rejected by me and that I was not interested in him any more...This was not the truth, I was just exhausted, and we were living separate lives due to opposite work schedules...

The OW was a coworker of his who had been flirting with him for months, and assured him that it would just be for sex, and she would never tell anyone...He figured, well, my wife has been saying no, and what she doesn't know, won't hurt her..He swears that he was never leaving me and the kids for her..that he never stopped loving me...

It's hard to recover and I accept my part in making him feel like I didn't want him anymore...this hurts alot...why couldn't he tell me how bad he felt, instead of cheating? I trusted him completely, which was a mistake, and I did not trust my instincts...another mistake.

You are in the right place to start rebuilding your M...I have come a long way in my recovery after reading the boards here...I never thought that I would be in this position, or would stay with my H if this happened...Now I am looking forward to making our marriage better as a result of this A...My H told me this weekend that he was glad that the A happened, even though he wishes it never happened, because now at least we are on track to a better marriage...neither of us wants the marriage we had pre-A...

I wish you and your H the best...

MF- Thanks for your post. It definatley sounds like we have a lot in common. I could have written every thing you just did. I knew something was wrong but I did not want to even think it could be something like this. I also never thought I would stay with my H if he did something like this. I guess you never know how you will react to anything until it happens. My H keeps telling me "we will be better because of this". I believe this but I hate to think it took this OW to make us realize how much we love one another.

Why do people cheat? Is everyone just out for themselves? I know why my H cheated but why did the OW do this? How could any woman with children cheat with a man who claims he told her he was in love with me and had 4 kids at home? When I think of her it is as a predator. She found my H at his weakest time and pounced on him. Not that it exuses his behavior. I spend a lot of time wondering about her. I feel like she got one over on me even though she doesnt even know I know. I know I should focus on my Hs role but she pops up quite a bit. Does anyone else think of OW?

Hopingfor,

We ALL think of the OW...it is a daily struggle not to think of her...more on that point later...

You and I are similar in age too...my FWS also said that he was turning 40 (last year) and that was a BIG part of his reason...he was going through a midlife crisis, feeling stressed with the responsibility of another baby on the way (a baby who he desperately wanted, by the way), and he felt like he was getting old...here comes this young babe (25) who is telling him she would sleep with him anytime, and no one would have to know...Well, he and I have a big fight, and lo and behold, there she is, looking up to him, and he figures, why not? She was a predator also, she knew that he loved his wife and kids because he always showed pictures of us...He told her that he would not leave us. but they made an agreement that it would just be a sex thing...she fell in love with him after a little while and started making demands on him, and that's when he tried to pull away, but he kept coming back....

I knew something was wrong also, but was afraid to even think that this was happening...I confronted him many many times, accused him of having a double life (he was), told him that I felt like I didn't have a husband (he barely was home, didn't go to prenatal appts, etc), and he DENIED DENIED DENIED everything...he would blame my pregnancy and the hormones for my feelings that something was wrong...he would say that he told me something that he did not, and make me feel like I was losing my mind..you know how it is when you're pregnant....so I doubted myself...that is my biggest regret, that I didn't push him to tell the truth...but he wouldn't have unless he was caught red=handed...he was afraid to tell me because he was afraid that something would happen to the baby (I would be upset, not that I would hurt the baby)...he was afraid that the stress would hurt the baby...but even after the baby was born, he stayed home for 2 wks, then it was back to OW...and similar to you, we had sex at 5 weeks postpartum after my dr's appt, and he had sex with her the next 3 days...what an A-hole!!

The OW was a single mother with a 2 yr old that she is not raising due to her own emotional problems....my H knew that there could never be a relationship with her, so he felt safe that he would not be leaving me...He was afraid that he would lose his family if I found out.

I spent alot of time wondering about OW. My H tells me that she is not worth it...he doesn't think about her...he says that she is taking up too much space in my head...I'm a couple months ahead of you from DDay...it will get better and easier.. I don't know her at all so my imagination tends to run wild, and he has told me she is not all that...
Typically the OW is emotionally unstable, that is why they are attracted to married men that they cannot have...for my H, it was just a sex thing...why she would agree to this is mindboggling to me...

My H said something similar to yours about us being better because of this...he told me this weekend that he was glad that the A happened, because it made him realize how much he loves me and that he does not want to lose his family, and that we can make this marriage better and stronger than it was...he wishes he never got involved, and there are alot of reasons why it happened.

Have you read His Need, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair? If not, you must...and read HNHN for Parents...when I read it, I said this is us...we stopped doing anything as a couple when our first child was born, and that is when my H said that our sex life changed...Also do the emotional needs questionnaire that is on this site...

Why do people cheat? What a question...lots of answers to that question...in my situation, my H and I had separate lives, stopped caring about meeting each others' needs, stopped communicating...I see my role in this, but he made the wrong choice when he went outside the marriage to solve the problems...in his mind, he was getting sex enough so he went elsewhere..

I would like to continue posting to you tomorrow. I have to go home now (I'm at work)_ but will come back to this tomorrow.

Have a good night,

Re - "I spend a lot of time wondering about her. I feel like she got one over on me even though she doesnt even know I know. I know I should focus on my Hs role but she pops up quite a bit. Does anyone else think of OW?"

Oh yes. I certainly do. When my H told his OW how I felt about their lunch dates, she wanted to talk to me and he said no. My question to him was if she knew that their 'friendship' was causing his M such problems why didn't she back off?

I think about her reasons a lot and wonder how she would feel if the boot were on the other foot.

Georgina

MF-Wow amazing similarities. The OW in my case had a crumby life and told my H how great he was. How much fun they could have together. She also is not raising her own kids told my H her H was a better parent than her so he should have them. Real class act. He had shown her pics of us too before the A started and told her during that he would never leave and he loved me. He really just used her to make himself feel special. It was a power trip for sure.

I cant count the number of times he made me feel like I was crazy in our every day lives. I am sure in retrospect it was because he felt unworthy of me and his family. When I would ask him what was wrong he would say nothing and whenI would ask him about infidelity in general he would get defensive instead of before when he would laugh. Looking back I should have known and not been so blind sighted. Who would I think of such a thing? In my eyes and our friends eyes we are the perfect couple. We are and always have been close and do things together. He is very attentive even through these 4 years it was not bad. Still I feel I should have should have known I could have saved us from all that pain. But in some wasy its good because we both know now what it caused him to become (guilt ridden) and he knows how afraid he once was of losing me.

My H tells me the same thing OW is not worth my time. I am a much better person than her. She cant hold a candle to me etc. He hated her all these years and now that he knows he is not going to lose me he doesnt think or care about her at all. I dont know her either but lucky for me her pic is on her company website so I can pull her up any time I am really feeling low and feel worse.

I do need to get those books. I know we have not been the same since the kids. I know we both played a role in growing apart. Last night for Valentines Day we went to a hotel and I bought lingerie (cant remember last time I did that). In some ways the A awakened us. Our sex life since dday has been amazing. I am sure that has to do with us both appreciating what we could have lost. He keeps telling me "we won".

Last night we talked about his bachelor party for some reason 14 years ago. He said his freinds sent him into a room with 2 strippers who were up for anything. He said he didnt do anything. I asked him why and he said "because I loved you". That made me so sad that after all we had built together he didnt feel more love for me than he did when we were 1st together. Sometimes I am so happy for this second chance...others I think how can I forgive him? I really want to then again I dont. I dont really understand what forgiveness is? Not torturing him and making him tell me details? I read somewhere forgiveness is when the events of what happened dont hurt you anymore. I cant even see that ever happening.

Thanks for your post yours too Georgina. It really helps to talk this out as I have told no one.

Hopingfor,

I'm back...alot of what you said rings true for me and my H too...I also felt like I was going crazy due to all his lies to cover up what was really going on...I think he did this to make himself feel better about the A, and to justify it in his mind...I also think that he mixed up what he had told her and what he had told me about, and tried to say he told me that he had done this or that...and it was all stupid stuff, like something that he mentioned happened at work, and I said he didn't tell me, and he said, yes I did, don't you remember? oh it must be your hormones again...In one sense, it was almost a relief when I found out because I felt like, Hey, I wasn't going crazy...there really was something going on...I wish I had listened to my inner voice, but then I wonder, what would I have done?

My H used the OW for sex and figured he could attract her, so he must still have it (turning 40 was really bothering him, I had no clue)...they used each other...do not try to compare yourself to her...I used to and now I just don't give in to it...what I have learned here is that the OW is only meeting some of the needs, SF for my H, and the wife meets the rest usually....the OW could not meet his other needs and he knew he was not leaving...this is part of his problem...he figured that he wasn't leaving me, she knew that, I would never find out about it so why not have a bit of fun? Well it stopped being fun and turned into a nightmare of guilt and shame for him...he was terrified that I would find out, but couldn't cut her loose because she was unstable, and he kept going back for "one more time"...

I know what you mean about being sad about feeling that he didn't love you more after all this time...when I first found out, and I talked about leaving, he said, "doesn't 14 years mean anything?" My reply was "I guess not". because I felt that how could he do this to me after all this time...I must not have meant anything to him. I see that he compartamentalized his life now...He says he never stopped loving me, and in his mind, he didn't...I didn't feel his love at that time though...I still have a hard time with this...He has admitted to caring for her but not loving her....I know that he hates her now, similar to your H..

I'm glad to hear that you and your H got away for Val Day...and you bought lingerie...wonderful...our sex life has also been amazing since the A ended...same as yours--we see what we didn't have before. My H says if we break up, she will win, so he wants to make our marriage better than it ever was, so something good will come out of this crisis.

I told him that he never stopped turning me on, when he would make the effort to do it...He just stopped making the effort...with me, it was tougher to get laid..you know, the kids were around, so he would have to wait until they went to bed...I mean, a typical scenario for us would be after I worked all day, would be washing dishes at the sink, kids eating dinner, and he would say, let's go in the bedroom...I would kind of sigh, and he 'd feel rejected...He said he got tired of hearing no...she wouldn't say no, she said Yes, and anytime he wanted, she lived alone so they could do it whenever they wanted...It sucks to think about it. We just took each other for granted, and I didn't realize that he was so desperate that he would cheat...she was pursuing him and made it known that she would just have sex with him and that was enough.

Now he understands that he was blind to what I was feeling at the time.. He realizes that I was exhausted due to working fulltime, being pregnant and raising 2 kids...He realizes his mistakes...I do like to have sex, but just was too tired and felt rejected by him too...I stopped wearing the lingerie, stopped making an effort to do my nails, and take care of myself because I thought he loved me anyway...

As for forgiveness, I know that I'm not there yet, but I think that I will get there someday...There is a thread that I posted on called How can you cheat if you love your spouse (or something similar).. There is a lot of good advice on there, and at the end where I have been posting, there is good advice from Schoolbus, who was similar to us also. She and her H are in recovery.


It is not easy...It is much better to talk to people on this board who understand, than friends that have never been through it.. You can't just sweep it under the rug...

this is my first post and I am embarrassed to hear myself reveal my story.
Hoping For, I have no advice. I can only offer to listen and I hope my empathy comes through.
We were HS sweethearts, first date 3/17/1972. "Married" 10/10/80, 3 great kids (in spite of me). I have confronted H many times. The only "slip" he has admitted to was b4 we were married. I have suspected other episodes, but he has always emphatically denied any other activity.
I was watching myself die a little each day. I started drinking heavily. I finally stopped trying to numb my self, my kids were suffering so, and everything just kept spiralling down.
Now I started to rebuild myself, but realized (admitted) that I could not go forward with a past so full of holes. I started asking my H the hard questions I had always avoided because I was afraid he would walk. Looking back I know I was right about this, and he admitted that he probably would.
There have been many versions of different episodes, and I still believe there is a lot more. He swears he telling me the truth about everything. THIS TIME!!! As my anesthetic wore off the IMAX in my head has been filling in some of the holes. I have begged, repeatedly for the truth from him. I NEED TO KNOW.
But I still feel like I'm walking through a mine field. The flash backs never stop, and I have finally realized that this is all he is going to give.
I was "MARRIED" in 1980. He started wearing his wedding ring about 6 months ago (I have been asking him for years and accepted his reasons why he didn't wear it, knowing in my heart it was all bull ******). I gave mine back to him 5 months ago. He once again swore to be open and honest. We (I) tried to communicate regularly, patiently, truthfully. He promised. I'm still waiting. All of his disclosures allow him to protect himself, insulate himself from unpleasantness.
I am so unsure of myself, doubt my ability to make good decisions for the right reasons, question my interpretations, suspicions feelings. I have no self respect, no pride in myself (I have always been the strong, level headed, responsible one. I was proud of myself. WRONG!)
Well, I've tried your patience with this never ending saga.

He made the decisions that have changed your life forever.

Hoping For, take care of yourself first!! You deserve to be respected as well as loved.
Love yourself, trust yourself, and YOU make the rest of your life something to look forward to, (I can't stop looking at the past, but I can change my response to it).

I guess some mistakes we never stop paying for.

SAD
I am shocked at the depth of the sadness, things lost, future poisoned. Small word, unbelievably strong emotion

Moira-
Oh I feel your sadness! It is such a little word for how big the feeling is. I am not a big drinker but since this has happened I find myself enjoying the numbing effect on my pain. Not caring about the calories or the am headache..just trying to get through the pain.

You are so strong to confront him and bring it out into the open. I know I swept a lot of thoughts under the rug and if I had really truly thought the worst and I mean WORST I dont know if I would have had the strength to let myself believe it.

I too like you took great pride in this M to be the responsible, level headed one and as his guilt began to eat him up I only became more and more "the good one". The good parent...the good wife. Always willing to give my needs up for his and the kids. Now I know its not right. No one really appreciates when you sacrafice yourself. I do need to take care of myself or no one else will. YOu should too stand up for yourself and demand the truth. The only way your IMAX will get smaller is if you know everything. I know for me the wondering is soooooo much worse.

I do hope that at some time soon my H and I can stop paying for the mistakes we both made. We are only human. We have a long future together and maybe hes right maybe we will be stronger and smarter and not take each other for granted. Tough way to learn a lesson but learned none the less.

Dont be embarrassed by your story. I am so glad you shared it with me.

Mama Fish I need to go grab the kids I will write soon thanks!

Hey MamaFish-
So much in common. I too was almost relieved when I found out. I told H it was the missing piece to the puzzle. I knew something was wrong. I thought it was me that he wasnt attracted to me and that I was a boring mom instead of the fun loving girl he married. I always felt loved just not cherished these last few years. Its almost better now thinking it was his inner demons and not me. Although I do have those same thoughts now but they are differnt.

I think he didnt love me enough or cherish our relationship. He put everything on the line for this. I had always told him 1 strike you are out (jokingly I guess...not thinking it would happpen)so its not like he didnt think it was a big deal. It almost feels like he should be telling me he cared about her or he didnt care that much about me. Not she meant nothing and I never stopped loving you. So much of it doesnt make sense. To put our lives and the lives of our kids on the line like that just to get a little? Like he was a dog not a husband and father. That really hurts. My expectaions of him were too high I guess. I have to keep reminding myself not to be judgemental.

Again so many similarities my H said it was a fantasy an escape from the pressures of every day life with kids. I think a big part of my sadness is grieving who I thought he was. I thought he would do anything for me and certainly that he was strong enough to say no to something like that. I always wanted him to take care of me and be my knight in shining armour. Never realized he needed that from me too. So many mistakes for 2 people who were so much in love.

The other similarity is the nightmare factor. Oh how much I love that she turned out to be of such bad character (of course like I said before who would go after someone elses H knowing his family situation). He went to that to feel good and boy did it backfire. Bleck! He even said she was terrrible in bed. That he was never comfortable enoughto really enjoy it. Why..why..why?? Power trip again loved that he could have her. That she continued to chase him.

Also H said from the beginning he was able to seperate the A from his life, like you said about compartmentalizing. They emailed and talked but he claims only as buddies. He said he never wanted to go on a trip ever (where they would hook up). It was just an ego boost. He never wanted to be with her it was just something to do and it made him feel wanted.

Same thing again with the sex for us too. We have always been pretty sexual. After the kids it was very rare to have big love making sessions. A lot of quickies and morning get it out of your system sex. We were tired at night and busy during the day. But I never stopped wanting him he just didnt make the effort and I didnt either. I think for me I was afraid he didnt want me.

I also gave up stopped looking pretty when he came home from work. My thinking was that we were more than that. We were parents and partners. Why would it matter if my hair was in a ponytail?

Did you ever confront the OW? I would love to give her a piece of my mind or my shoe but I know it would make me feel worse? Did you tell your friends? I feel like I have this big secret now and I have never been a very closed person. I dont feel like I can tellanyone b/c I couldnt live with people knowing about this.

Thanks for sending me to that post I have to go back to read the whole thing but it looks good.

Hi Hopingfor,

Glad to hear from you...I also thought I was just a boring mom, not the person that I used to be...I never thought of myself as being OLD until this happened...the OW was 25 when it started...When I would ask my H how I looked in a certain outfit, he'd say "like a Mom"...That made me feel just awful...like I was only a Mom, not a person..I would tell him that I felt like I was losing myself, that I didn't know who I was anymore, but he didn't seem to care...

I always put the kids and him first as far as getting new clothes, etc to be in style...meanwhile I'm wearing the same old things all the time. I wear contact lenses and hate to wear my glasses..well he always tells me if your contacts bother you, wear your glasses, be comfortable..so I would, and it all goes along w/ not making an effort to be glamourous all the time...he likes me to wear dark nail polish, but it was too much work--it would chip right away and I'd never have the time to keep up with it...so I stopped doing it...My H always told me I was beautiful even when I had my glasses on and old pjs...I believed him when he said that...that was my stupidity...now I question everything he ever told me...

I know what you mean about him putting his life on the line. It will never make sense to me...I can't understand how he felt it was OK because he knew he would never leave me...and I would never find out...I just don't get it as much as I try to understand...I take responsibility for what I did to contribute to the state of the M at the time, and even understand why it could have happened once or twice...for me, I will never understand why it went on for so long...how he could think so little of me to continue with her, when he was only in it for sex? It wasnt' like he wasn't having sex with me at the same time, although it was infrequently. He could have had it more w/ me if he was ever home, because I was pretty aroused in my 2nd trimester but there was no H around to be with me...he was off with her when I thought he was working OT.

I was feeling rejected by him because I was pregnant and getting bigger.. during my previous pregnancies, he was doting, would cook , rub feet, go to appts, etc...always told me I was beautiful, didn't care that I was getting big, told me that was ridiculous--I wasn't fat...With this one, he did none of this...In fact, I remember him coming home and saying that he understood if I didn't want to have sex because some of the women at work were saying how pregnant women sometimes don't feel like it...When he said this, I thought he wasn't interested or attracted anymore, since Sex was always a big thing for him...we did the same--quickies that weren't satisfying for me, but did it to get it out of his system...

I never confronted the OW, I don't know her...sometimes I would like to slam her, but other times I think that is what she would expect...A better thing to tell her in my case would be that our marriage is better than ever because he realized how much he loved me when he was with her...this would get her because she fell in love with him and wanted him to leave me...

As for telling people, no I haven't really....At work, no one knows although when it first happened, they knew something was wrong with me, but I wasn't talking to anyone. I have only told 2 friends that live out of state, that I have known most of my life...one is my friend since 8th grade and one is since I was 18...They try to help and sympathize, but they can't understand because they haven't been through it..I would just encourage you to post here because people have more in common with you here than in your life...look at us...I don't know you at all, but I completely understand how you are feeling...you are not going to get that from others unless they have been through it...Plus, if you are staying together, it will be hard for you to deal with them if they know..

I get so angry when the wanderer tries to blame some outside source (human/oppurtunity).

HE MADE A CHOICE. AND HE CHOSE POORLY.

The only valid excuse is if he's in a coma or has had a lobotomy.

Trying to deflect blame indicates that he is not taking responsibility for his actions