Hi ladies,

The OW in my case made my H feel sorry for her also. She is young, single, 25 and told him that she had cancer (this was true but it was skin cancer and nonfatal. He felt bad that she was so young and sick....She had a 2 yr old son out of wedlock that she couldn't take care of (her grandmother cares for him), and had abusive boyfriends in the past, tried to commit suicide, etc. What started out for him as an escape from reality (like hopingfors') became a nightmare when she got feelings for him, and started making demands like a wife...he was like, I already have a wife, I'm not leaving my family for you, you can't even take care of your own kid...he realized that she was looking for a father for her kid...

My H was also never around to do work on the house, even before the A because he worked graveshift on the weekends. I had to do it or it wouldn't get done...I worked f/t through all pregnancies, same as you F&L, carting the kids from daycare to home to work and then to home to my 2nd job as I called it...we led separate lives, and I think that this A had to happen in order to stop the chaos. We lost each other due to our lack of communication and just trying to deal w/ everyday life.

I haven't asked for details of the SF encounters yet...He did tell me shortly after DDay that he did feel guilty and couldn't get it up one time, but I'm sure that she helped him through it..I know more about her than I do of their relationship and want to find out more, but he doesn't like to talk about it.

Along the lines of people feeling sorry for unattractive women as you said F&L, my H figured she was safe and clean because she wasn't sleeping w/ anyone else, and was not that attractive. But she thought she was a 10, so she projected that on to him, and then became very clingy when he showed her that attention. By then, he was in a real bad situation and was afraid to tell me because the baby was due in Aug and he was afraid that something would happen to jeopardize the baby's health...this was one of the reasons for him not telling me,and he was backing up off her during this time...He was afraid she would tell me and so he would go back with her. The OW Wanted what I had also, but without the kids...she just wanted H to take care of her...she refused to look at pics of his kids because she told him that she would never meet them...he would show his photos to everyone at work...No one knew about them and he wanted to keep it quiet but she wanted everyone to know...that was another part of her blackmail to him. Everyone looked up to him as a family man...I wish sometimes that she did call me, but I guess everything happened the best way it could. I truly don't know if I could've handled it when I was pregnant. I was a mess as it was.

There is a saying somewhere on here about entitlement and the WS..I can't think of what it is exactly, but they just think of themselves and feel that they deserve to be happy, whatever...

I'm glad your daughter is doing well...I am so thankful for my kids...they give me the strength to carry on too...

Hopingfor, when your H comes home tonight, just give him a hug and kiss and tell him you missed him...don't LB him..that is what he is expecting...don't make him want to not come home to you...you need to try to make your home a haven for him...

MF,

NO ONE IS SAFE AND CLEAN! The OW my husband was with also thought she was a 10, but what she doesn't realize is that she is a minus 10.

We don't argue too much anymore. Any arguments are about normal stuff. A lot of women would have given up, but I stuck it out and we came a long way. I've always loved my husband and would do anything to save our marriage. It took him months to realize this also. It was a terrible mistake for my husband to make, but he realizes that. My husband just had to be hit with a couple of 2 x 4's by several people to make him see. He also realizes how important communication is now. We made a promise to each other that we would always tell each other if we had a problem. We aren't still "out of the woods" yet, but we are on our way. Now we spend quality time together and with the family. Girls, I had to delete some stuff from my previous posts - causes problems - not that I haven't been honest but FWS reads all posts, doesn't like hearing about what he did.

Hi Forgiveandlove,

Yes, I know no one is safe and clean..>He knows NOW...Idiot!

I'm glad your Marriage is better now and that you are communicating...we are getting there also. We argue but we also talk and LISTEN more...and apologize instead of being stubborn...My biggest thing is that he never told me there was a problem before he had his A..well, let me correct that...he used to complain that we didn't have SF enough...but if he had told me this in a calm manner instead of angrily telling me he was going to find someone else, and I would yell, go ahead...then I would have changed my behavior and realized that he needed this more often...He would literally approach me for SF when I had my hands up to my elbows in dishwater, belly out to here, aching back,aching legs, after working all day and 2 kids yelling and running around...sorry, I'm just not in the mood. The other thing is by the time he even said that about finding someone else, he already HAD...They were flrting for months before anything happened so I know that he knew he had someone waiting in the wings, so to speak.

Anyway, we spend more time together now...i hated him working nights and that was a big cause of arguments...before I got pregnant the last time, I told him I wanted him to change to day shift. Whenever I mentioned it after that, he would say there weren't openings...now I know that he never even asked about it.

I love when we are all together as a family and I can see him looking at the kids with such love and he says this is where I want to be...it makes me feel really good that I didn't give up on him...I always loved him, even if I didn't show it enough, and now he knows it. I hope that if there are any temptations in the future, he is comfortable enough to tell me about it first...I think that he would.

No problem about deleting the posts, I wish my H would go on here but we don't have a computer at home so there is no way he would go on..;

Hi,

It didn't work for us being on the site at the same time. I was the one who suggested he go on thist site and it backfired on me. All my FWH did was look for my posts and bash me. then when people would bash him (which is all he got) he would fight with me. So, sometimes it doesn't work out for both of you to be on here. It helped me a lot in the beginning to vent and talk out my problems.

I used to get the same thing, I used to work full time, pick up the kids, cook, clean, pick up kid's stuff, laundry, by 9:00 p.m. I was falling asleep - dead tired. My husband would be sitting watching tv or playing video games. Most of the time, my husband would yell at me, boss me around, then when we went to bed, he forgot he just yelled at me and then he thought I wanted to be romantic. Yes, yelling at me and not helping me, makes me very romantic. Shouldn't it? What was wrong with me?

Well, if the husbands would see the OW in the same situation, real life, they would run for the hills, as fast as they can, away from the OW. If they saw the OW in reality, cleaning, sick, dead tired, caring for kids, coping with every day life, seeing them first thing in the morning, complain about not being helpful enough, dealing with a husband that acts like another child, etc., they would never have an affair.

My husband used to hear me but didn't listen/comprehend what I was saying. He would only hear what he wanted to and ignore the rest.

You got it right...my H's OW didn't even have kids to take care of, so her apartment really was an escape from reality. Just him and her, no other responsibilities...then I would be resentful when he came home after being gone, and he'd think, why isn't she glad that I'm home...she must not be attracted to me anymore, she must not love me anymore...then he calls OW and she says why don't you come over? The problem for them began when he would visit her and the tables turned. Then SHE was the one saying Where were you? Why didn't you come home? blah blah blah Why don't you take me out anywhere?? Reality started to come into that little fantasy world.

My H used to hear what he wanted to hear too. He mostly would tune me out though...He says now that we fought all the time, everything turned into an argument...he still doesn't see how OW was in the middle of our M even when I didn't know it. He does not want to admit that he treated me poorly to justify his A, to make him feel better about it, and to feel like he deserved more...He can't admit that he would provoke arguments with me and then when I would react, he would leave. He says that he wouldn't go to her because she would fight with him too. He would go out w/ his friends because he had nowhere to go (poor guy!).

You know what started to wake him up also re: the whole housework thing>? He saw a Dr. Phil show that had overworked wives and how the Hs did nothing and would come home and expect love and romance. That got him to thinking, hey, maybe my wife really is tired!

Hi MF and Hoping,

Hope you ladies are doing ok. I know it seems things will never be better, but they will - just be patient and strong.

Remember, life is too short, live it as if it was always your last day in life.

Good morning Forgiveandlove,

Thanks for this message today. I really needed to hear it...my dad just turned 80 last month and is in pretty good health but we have been estranged for a few years. He has only met my DS twice, last when DS was 8 mos old and has never seen either of his granddaughters...I'm happy for you and your dad that you had a great relationship for all your lives...I have tried to reach out to my dad but he is involved with another woman (my parents have been divorced for 20 yrs) and has another life..no other grandchildren though, and just my brother, who lives out of state.

My mother is 70 and is pretty healthy just the usual complaints. I am not very close w/ her but see her often. She loves her grandchildren.

I wish I could say my parents had a loving M...In fact they had an awful one, and I wished they had gotten Divorced instead of putting me through it. I was an only child (my brother is from my dad's first M and is 8 yrs older so didn't live w/ us) and I had to live with either fights or silence when they weren't speaking. They slept in separate rooms (the explanation was that my dad stayed up too late) and my Dad used to travel alot so during the week, it was just me and my mom, and on the weekends, he would be home...This is partly why I accepted the arrangement with My H working graveshift weekends, because I had grown up w/ a dad that was absent most of the time. I didn't have that role model marriage. My father was also very critical of my mother and she could never do anything right.

Well, last night H and I had a huge fight and now I don't even know if either of us wants to remain Med or if we are both just giving up...He said that he loves me and the kids but can't take me mentioning OW and if our M is going to be like this (fighting), he will walk away. I feel like I have been the only one working on trying to save the M, read the books, change myself, and he now has gone back to his old habits pre-A and during A. He doesn't understand that I don't feel the commitment to the M like I did before the A. Since his A went on for so long, it's like I didn't have an H during that time, and I feel like I still don't. He does not really know how to be an H anymore, at least not the H that I feel I deserve after all of this...We don't have a recovery plan and no MC so we have been on our own and basically living without talking about the A...I think he feels like we are back to normal and won't discuss it anymore. Before DDay, I would have said that we could handle anything because we always at least had each other. Now, I can't say that we have each other, I don't feel like we have anything special anymore.

I hope this makes sense. I'm at work now but will check back later this morning...Just have to get to work to focus.

Oh MF I feel so bad for you. This sounds so much like me. The rollercaster the H who thinks no work needs to be done.."just get over it" attitude. This week we were having a fight and he was being so mean ssaying "I know now you will never feel the same towards me" "You are torturing us" blah blah blah it went on so long I finally said to him "You are going to be sorry you said these things to me". Boy did he turn it around and fast. He was like what do you mean?????? Honestly I said it to wake him up but I CANT be a victim anymore. I am not going to take BS like that fromhim and I dont know what I will do if it continues. Too bad I am not making you feeel good about yourself how do you think the A made me feel. I think he feels like he is trying to shake it out of me like atough love thing.

This is so hard. You need MC or a plan if nothing else. It really really sucks that us BS need to do the work and I really resent it myself but whats your option. I think for me anyway I need to try. I am going to quote DrPhil again (I should be a groupie for him) but he says you are ready for a D when there are no feelings left. If you can walk out the door wihtout looking back its time. Plus I heard Oprah talking years ago and she said people think about D an average of 7 years before they do it. Its only been 5 months for you since dday its still raw. I know it willget better for you one way or another you will see waht you want but its probably too soon now to make such a big decision.

Its amazing to me how easy I thought our M would be. We loved each other so much in the beginning I never thought it was going to be work but it is. I wish our Hs could see that and make a commitment to WORK on fixing whats broken or what was broken at the time.

F&L
I love that you r parents had such a great relationship. That gives me hope. Both my and my Hs parents stayed married but not "in love". I think for me even when I feel totally in love with H its hard to maintain that affection b/c I never saw it at home. I dont think I ever saw my parents kiss or hug. H is very affectionate towards me but I am not that comfortable although I love it. Does that make sense? I guess I want what your parents had I just dont know how to do it its so far out of what I know.

We went to a funeral last year way before dday and the widow said to me "I can say he was always kind to me". I was so sad after that. H was very guilt ridden for years and took it out on me and the kids quite often. I feel now the same way so sad at the end of my life I will know that if we are married 50 years the last 40 years he has been faithful. Stupid I guess. I just wish our M was more pure.

MF saw you on my other post I made an appt today told H he could come with me to tell GYN! I am so humiliated by all this crap! Thanks F&L for jolting me into it. Mama I hope your day gets better and you make up tonite. I know how it feels to be fighting all day. H is home now for me and I feelso much more relaxed. MC today so I will let you know how that went. Lots to talk about wiht him today!
HF

Hi Hopingfor,

Thanks for the good thoughts that you are sending my way. I feel like at least I am not alone in thinking this way...I can't say there are no feelings left...I told myself after DDay that I wouldn't make any decisions for a year...I really do not want a divorce, but like you said, I'm not going to take this from him anymore...I won't be a doormat that he thinks he can do ANYTHING and I'll still be here...it's like he wants to call my bluff or something...he just doesn't realize it, and does the same thing about the tough love part...I know that I can get over the A...I have proved that to myself just by the fact that I can have normal days with him without it interfering in our lives....I just don't know if he has the commitment to do what it takes to really rebuild this M.

My parents were also not affectionate, and like you, I love it when H is affectionate to me, but it doesn't come naturally to me. He says this is part of the reason for his A...my lack of affection. Now, I am the one kissing him hello & goodbye, hugging him, etc. He said ILY on the phone just yesterday and I said it back. He said you're surprised I said that, aren't you? I said, yes. he said, well I do...

Good for you on making that appt. I know how you feel. But you have to get it done. I do too. I'm sure they will be understanding at the dr's office. Did your H get tested?

Thanks for the support. I feel better knowing that it's not just me having these feelings...

Have a good day!
MF

Awww..thats sweet the ILY. My H says that all the time thank God for him or my kids wouldnt have heard it their whole lives. I say it to them all the time but I NEVER heard it from my parents EVER!

I think its goingto be hard but I can and will get over it. I am very angry these days but I know it will pass. He is a good man who made a really bad horrible life altering decision but I will have to find it in my heart to frogive him somehow. I cant throw him away for this we have too much together.

Hs #1 En was affection by the way. I dont knwo why I was surprised I guess b/c he is always the one giving it I never thought he needed it? The funny thing is most of our freinds are jealous and think we have this great realtionship b/c he is so attentive and loving and calls all the time from work or when he is out with the guys. If they only knew what he did I am sure they would be thanking their lucky stars for their boring realtionship...maybe not. Maybe I am lucky I have to stop comparing I know but it makes me sad that my friends whose Hs are jsut there and not loving are not dealing with the issues of infidelity. I guess you take the good with the bad. No ones realtionship is perfect and I know noone would have expected this from my H. Perfect H hard worker coaches the kids...double life.

Anyway I am off to MC soon. H said he asked his Dr last year to run all the tests without explaining to him. He swears up and down he always used a condomn. Oh it makes me so sick to think of him doing that. Thinking of it buying condomns. I would lkie to think he just fell into her but thats not the case.

Will let you know how it goes in MC. Keep your head up I am sure this fight will pass and you will have a chance to fix your M but make sure he knows its his responsibility too...calmly of course MB style!
HF

HF,

My H is like that with the kids also--hugging, kissing, etc...I did hear ILY growing up but not like they do..

I know what you mean about not wanting to throw it all away. We both have said that and he says if we give up, she will win, and I don't want that...I guess we both just said alot of stuff we shouldn't have said to each other...THings that you could say pre-A that you didn't have to worry about. You knew it was just a fight and that's it... you would make up. Now everything is just so precarious like we are on a tightrope.

Good luck w/ MC. I wish we could go to it...You can't compare your M with others because you're right, you never know what other's lives are truly like...My H thinks that there are worse men out there than him and that I should be glad to have him...I know there are worse out there, and I am glad to have him BUT that doesn't make MY pain any less.

My H never wore a condom. He was really stupid that way....not that it really makes a difference, re the HPV thing.

Thanks for cheering me up. I will keep my head up and let you know how things go tonight. He was supposed to go out w/ a friend of his who knows all about the A, but I don't know if he is still going...I guess I'll find out tonight.

Ladies,

Don't be embarrassed about going to the OB/GYN. I've been going to the same one for 20 yrs and had to tell them why I was there. They understand. Make sure you get tested for everything - women have to stick together.

Ladies, if I could survive, so can you. I told you I could write a book. Sometimes, I think my life is like a "Lifetime Movie". I don't know if they have this tv station in your area.

Forgiveandlove,

Your user name really fits you...Yes, you're right, you could write a book, and I love Lifetime Movies! I love that channel but rarely get to watch it. You are definitely a survivor, and also a forgiver and a lover...I guess you are proof of the saying "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"...I'm glad that you have a good relationship with your older children...It's too bad that their father made it so tough for you to keep in touch with them (and took the money for CS to boot)...

I truly hope that you and your H can have the M you deserve..I see why you are so strong...thanks for sharing your story with us...

This is my first M and also my H's. We waited to have kids until our 30s so we would be mature enough to handle them, and so we spent our 20s and early 30s living with each other and enjoying each other. Things really changed after the first baby.. Of course I didn't see this then, but I was more attentive to the baby than to my H, sex life decreased, etc. He said in MC when we went to our first session that it has been 5 yrs that he has felt rejected, since our son was born...I become more of a mother than a wife, and of course, more babies mean less of mom to go around for dad...he feels like I gave up on him so he gave up on me. He swears that this was the first and only time he cheated and he will not do it again. I do believe him but am having a tough time coping with the pain of it all...

I know that I just need to ride this out and be the better person and just apologize and move on...we had a similar argument a few weeks ago when I threatened to leave, and he said he couldn't take my threats...I realized that wasn't fair of me to keep threatening unless I meant it, and I didn't....Now, he is the one threatening to leave...and I'm just perpetuating it by giving it right back.. Someone has to stop it and it might as well be me...

Thanks for being there...

Computer is messed up - I'll get back to you later.

Darn, I just lost all I wrote!

I had the same problem. When the girls were young, they needed lots of attention - I guess my husband was jealous of this and didn't understand. Men are like children sometimes, they need to be the center of attention.

Another thing my husband found it hard to accept was that now I was a MOM, once I had the girls. He thought of me different, than when we were going out - then I was a hot and sexy woman - now I was a MOM!

The MC made him see how wrong he was about all this. So I stuck it out, because in spite of all this I loved him.

Again, I told him how would he feel if I did this to him - to think of me making love to another guy, kissing him - having the other many touch my body. Would he be able to get that image out of his head? .

I just want to tell you about the people in the company my husband works for - they are all either divorced, cheated with each other, or going out with each other. Just so you can see what he and I were up against.

Sounds like a lot of gossip, doesn't it, but it's all true.
Makes me sound like a nun.

This is only in his immediate dept. The whole company is corrupt, right up to the top. These are the people my husband took advice from.

If I'd only known.

Forgiveandlove,

This sounds similar to my situation a little bit...at first, he blamed me for the A, but then he realized that he could not blame me for his choice to have the A. As soon as I read SAA and HNHN, I accepted my responsibility in creating the pre A M and told him this...It's hard to read those scenarios of the child centered Ms because that is just how it was with us...

My H, though, cannot blame me for any of the problems on the job because I never found out about the A until after. She caused the problems because he said that he was through w/ her and wouldn't have time for her anymore...he had decided that he had to break if off for good (I wonder if this was true or just what he is telling me...he had tried before and always went back to her...what made this time different?) She got fed up I guess and said You f-ed me, now I'm going to f-you...and that was it. So now he absolutely hates her and he has no way to put any of the blame for that on me...I just have to deal w/ all the crap about losing health ins, him trying to find a new job, etc...Everyone at his job now knows about them...some close friends of his knew but most saw him as the family guy....This was one of the problems they had because she wanted to show off to everyone and he refused. She would threaten to expose him to everyone including me, and finally did it to everyone at work after the fact..

Going back to your H seeing you as a Mom, I can identify. My H would call me Mommy which started out when my DS was a baby..it was cute at the time, and of course, as he got older, we would call each other Mommy and Daddy when he was around talking to him... But then H starts calling me Mommy when the kids are not around. This really bothered me...Also, when I would dress up and ask him how I looked, he would say, Good. Like a Mom...That also upset me... So in MC I mentioned it and the MC asked if he realized he did this and he didn't. So after that he stopped doing that...It seems like such a little thing, but it was like you said, he didn't see me as a woman anymore. I was just a mom. And because I was pregnant when the A started, I think that made it worse because he really felt like his life was passing him by...even though he wanted the baby very badly. I was concerned before I got P that he would not be around enough to help...and boy was I right...It was like I jinxed it or something...

I never was jealous of him, never bothered him at work, never went there or very rarely called him after. If he was going to be late, he would call and I wouldn't give him any problem...When I suspected, and asked him about certain things, he would deny it and turn it around on my pregnancy and hormones. and I would question my own mind and believe him...I trusted too much, that was my problem. Even things I really suspected, by the summertime, I didn't even ask because I knew he'd have an answer and I had no proof of anything...The usual, how could you think that of me? I 'm working to provide for you and the baby,etc?

My H is very upset when he thinks I am trying to control him...I don't try to control him ,but now I question him when he goes out, etc. I didn't have a reason to before. I was so trusting that I never even looked at his cell phone calls because I had no idea how to even use his phone... I wish I had the courage back then to deal with what I thought may have been going on...I don't know if I would have been able to handle it though, so I think his fears about the baby and me breaking down were not very far-off...

I'm glad that you and your H made up. I'm sure he is very frustrated and ashamed of his actions, and the situation it all led to. I know my H is feeling like that. He has been very very depressed. He and I didn't talk about the fight when I got home last night. I didn't have the energy and neither did he. We didn't talk much, but he did give the kids their baths and I made sure to thank him. We were just polite with each other. I think it's a truce of sorts. I feel better about it today than yesterday.

The people my H hung around with I did not know. He worked at a large casino that was 1 hr from our house, and I had not been there since he started working there. He calls it Sin City now and says it is a big soap opera, so that environment didn't help. It was conducive to the A...it was another fantasy world. My H doesn't miss it at all.

Based on your description of the company, I think it is best that he is out of there...I didn't know about the casino environment either. My H is somewhat of a flirt, but he is from the South and calls women honey and stuff like that as part of his personality/upbringing. He talks to everyone and is very charming...I never thought twice about it...never had a reason to...I was appalled when he told me the kinds of flirting and stuff that was going on...

The OW had "relationships" with several of the employees that he knew, but they weren't married, as far as I know...Her father works there also, and my H knew him, and she told him that he was abusive to her as a child. She had a rough life and looked up to my H...

Well, it's good that your H will be leaving that co....Your M is worth more than ANY job...

HAve a good day!

MF,

I never tried to control my husband. This was just all the bad advice he got from people on the job, that were cheating on their spouses. The only time I would call him is if I forgot something or there was an emergency. He hates wives that call the husbands every day. If he was in a meeting and I made the mistake of calling - I'd have to hang up immediately. Then, he would be angry when he got home.

My husband's idea of controlling him,was/is, me asking when he will be home, this is a no, no, what happened in work today, asking him to help around the house, asking him to fix something, giving me some immotional support, and asking him to be honest. If I asked/ask any of these questions, God forbid I did it in the past, I was controlling him. My husband doesn't know the difference between when I ask him to do something or when I tell him to do something - to him it's all the same.

I always trusted my husband during the years, because he was always home on time. When he first started coming home and hour or 2 late, I had no reason to be suspcious. But, after coming home on time for years, and then all of a sudden, for no reason, being late every day, hmmmmm. I had to face the facts. I guesss, I couldn't face the reality that it was really going on. Yes, my husband also had an answer to everything - always does.

F&L,

My H also PERCEIVES my questions as trying to control him. I realized that alot of this had to do with his childhood. His mother and older sister are very bossy and controlling, and order him around (or try to) when we visit. He cannot take it and will leave to get out of the house when they do this. They try to do this to me also. I am not like this at all...I do not make demands, or yell and scream like they do...It is all a perception issue with him. I am working on this so that he does not get defensive...

My hH also never gave me a reason to be suspicious, and even the long hours/ days at work did not make me suspicious. It was him not wanting SF as much as usual that was part of it...Hard to explain, just a feeling that something was not right...like I didn't know who he was anymore...

And yes, he still has an answer for everything!