Hi girls
F&L I cant believe the stuff that goes on in your Hs company! Outrageous! Mama glad to hear your day is going better. I am struggling with some stuff that went on in MC yesterday. I feel soooooo bad today. Is this EVER going to get better.

I feel like you Mama I am just going to be nice so we dont fight. It feel though that if we are just cordial to each other there is no passion you know? I want so desperatlty to get along it is thte only time I feel good.

Anyway yesterday I was upset at MC because MC said there are no guarantees in life..you could get in a car accident, you r kids could get sick (which hits home b/c one of my best friends has a little boy recently diagnosed with cancer) blah blah. And I thought but you wear a seat belt and you take your kids for check ups. You always worry about that stuff but its in the way back of your head. I never worried about our M never gave it the attention it needed. Anyway I was so upset thinking OMG what is he does do it again. This of course has always been there but heres this MC saying repeatedly I might add that anyone anyone even me is capable of cheating!

Let me ask you ladies a question. Do you ever just get stuck one thing and cant get off it? Today I am thinking about an email he sent to her with a flirtatious comment and a (; winky eye 2 years after a was over. I realize I am under a lot of stress but this is drivingme nuts. I mean clearly H is capable of lying and doing so for years but he has told me it was all her and when he found out what a s--t she was 2 months after he broke it off in 2002 he thought she was disgusting. So when I find this he says oh I ran into her and we started taliking via email a few times. Why I ask he says 1. I dont know 2. she was the only one that knew what I had done so I could talk to her (althought he swears they never talkied about it) 3. I wanted to get back at her for turning me into a cheater I dont know but all I can say is I was never honest with her after I found out about her.

Okk so this is all water under the bridge but its important to me to know how he felt about her. Should I just try to forget this stuff? In reality what does it matter it is over and has been but what if he was pursuing her? I am just ion the middle of a bad bad day I think!

Up down up down I am ready for an up day! Hope allis going well with you guys!

Hi HF ,
Sorry you are having a bad day. I only have a minute or two before I have to leave work...I feel for you, I really do..

Yes, we are all primed for an A, per Harley..>I feel like
I could have had at least an EA while my H was having his A due to his neglect...I guess I never had the opportunity. He used to ask me if I was interested in anyone then and I would say, who would want me, I'm x mos pregnant...

I also feel better when we are not fighting. If I feel disconnected from him as I have the last few days, I get anxious and depressed. He is very depressed now and we have not had SF in over 2 weeks...not usual since after dDay...i had my period so that was 2 weeks ago so last week I approached him but we just had a quickie due to time . We were supposed to follow it up but he wasn't interested due to his depression, he said, not me...I still feel rejected though like he turned the tables on me...

I do tend to obsess over one thing (like that email)but have to force myself to stop.

It will get better. At some point you have to just accept what he says as truth in order to move on. I also ask, was he really going to end it for good that day? I will never truly know. I have to accept his word that he was or else I will drive myself crazy (or crazier)...

Have a good night. I'm going to try to.

Hi Hoping,

I am the same way - when I get something in my mind - I can't get rid of it. I think about it over and over again., especially if I sense something is wrong. I have to talk about it.

I don't think your husband should be e-mailing the OW. Even though the husbands are trying to be honest about things and supposedly tell us everything - I think they only tell us what we want to hear - for fear of us getting more hurt or angry. I'm sure some things are left out - not to imply that the husband and the OW are making plans to get together again.

Yes, I think anyone is capable of cheating. But, I think it's how strong you are towards temptation. Like I said before, I also had many opportunities to cheat and felt I didn't get the emotional support or physical support I needed, but I thought was it worth it? No I always thought.

Believe me it gets better - I see your D-days are Oct & Dec.05 - mine was earlier than that - so I had a couple more months to heal. It will come. You will have many ups and downs.

It's very hard trying to make yourself believe what they are saying is the truth. I have the same problem - but you'll drive yourself crazy if you don't. I usually have a feeling when my husband is lying.

Good morning,

I agree with F&L, you should feel better after MC, not worse. And yes, anyone is capable of cheating...I think that the Harley books do a good job of making that point, that it can be very gradual and that the person that thinks it will never happen to them (or that they would never cheat), is at very high risk because they are failing to protect their boundaries (this is my H...he never thought he would cheat because both of his parents cheated).

The point about Hs being a loaded gun is a very good one...I like Dr. Phil alot==he is pretty straightforward. When my H's A was in the beginning stages, and I was early pregnant, he told me that some women at work told him that pregnant women don't want to have sex much, so he understood if I didn't want to. After that he did not initiate very much, and if he did, it was for a quick one or a BJ. There were only a few times that it was very good for me and that was after I had stopped fighting with him alot. I was kind of acting Plan A without realizing it. I was feeling better physically, although tired, but had stopped doing alot of LBS just because I was expecting the baby...I hope that makes sense. I was just trying not to fight w/ him everytime he came home because I realized it would just push him away. But at the same time, I was missing him terribly when he was gone. Yes, he said that he got tired of asking and being refused, (wait until the kids go to bed, whatever)...then he stopped asking and I didn't realize it...I think it's very true though. I guess that's why we had been having lots of SF lately. I realized that it is his way to connect with me, and not just for SF, but emotionally as well. I am trying to show him that the sex with me is alot better than it was with OW, even if it may have been more exciting at first.

F&L,
I'm sorry that you are having a bad feeling. I get those kind of insights sometimes too. I had them on and off through the A, but denied it thinking it was just me.. Now I know to trust my instincts. I hope that nothing bad happens...

Hope you both are having a good day!

Morning everyone
Happy St patricks day! Hope everyone is having an up day. Nothing much to report here. I did want to clarify F&L that the email I found was from 2004. I scoured his computer and I mean scoured! I found a few things like the inapproprate email to the asst. 3 flirtatious emails to OW and and email from her on his doculments for some reason a joke titled "something cute" and she wrote "not a picture of me haha" and it was a joke about infidelity! Can you imagine? I really dont like her very much!! I wish I knew more about the A. I wish I had protected myself and checked while it was going on. I wish I was more computer savy to get more stuff out of his computer but I guess its all gone now anyway.

I think Mc was trying to jolt me into something he actually said I dont know how to help you if you cant hear me. H and MC want me to move on and accept it. I am just so heartbroken I dont want to. I wake up just hoping against hope that its all a dream b/c I dont know how to deal with it. Last night I had a dream it was my son who did this and I was so disappointed in him and sad that I hadnt raised him right. Two things I amthinking 1. I feel I did our M wrong by not nurturing it 2. I am obsessed with my kids learnign about this and would hate to see them make a mistake like this in theri lives.

My H is a good man. I know this. He trearts me with respect and dignity bar the obvious. I just cant or wont allow myself to get past this. I keep thinking about the post on here about being still and try that when I get crazy. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done.

Right now as far as our relationship if we took out the A and dealing wiht that evrything would be great we have really reconnected. But i keep thinking what about when we start getting into a rut again. I dontknow anyone who is like head over heels in love forever. Right now we cant wait to be togethre most of the time (when its not total despair here). Its nto going to stay like that forever I m not 20 I know that. H says we will know whenit happens again adn he will be stronger. H says he will never do it agian but he doesnt knowthat and I hate thinking I will have to live with this in the back of my mind for the rest of our lives.

Mama i think that too H said he ended it in July 2202 and heard form her other OM in Sept but i wonder when he saw her again would he have done it if he wasnt so disgusted by her? I just cant beleive his reassurance b/c he has lied ot me so much. And like you said F&L I think too he is leaving stuff out so aas not to hurt me but I really want to know now what his feelings were toward her. So much has happened since then he doesnt even remember.

F&L I hope all is well with your Hs work it does sound a little weird but it always does it seems so when you write it out. Maybe its nothing I will hope for the best for you.
HF

Happy St. Patricks' Day!

I don't know much about computers, but I think that unless the whole thing is completely cleaned, a computer expert would be able to find it. Honestly, I think you have done enough..This was years ago, he hasn't been contacting her recently so you have to look at it that way.

The MC we went too also wanted me to move on, didn't think that knowing details would help me...I disagree on that. I obsess over details and that is the only way I feel I can move on is to know what really happened.

HF, I'm not 20 either and I hoped that we would grow old together and have a long happy M...I also didn't nurture my M and have to live with that guilt. When I think of it, I try to imagine my H's guilt at what he did...it makes me feel more sympathetic to him. This is why he hates to talk about it. He says that when our son is older, he wants to tell him never to cheat and have him learn from his lesson...Of course, he didn't learn from his father's lesson, maybe because his father left his mom for the OW and married her and they had 2 kids and were married for 20 yrs...I think that if the M is protected and needs are being met at home, that another A is more likely to not happen....if the communication is there so that our Hs can talk to us when things start getting in a rut, that will be the difference.

I also look at the Be Still printout when I'm having a tough day. It helps. Ark is a great poster...

Mama
I told H the other day that i wouldnt trade places with him. How bad he felt for 4 years thinking he didnt deserve his family? How bad he feels now for being resposible for all me pain? Its so much when it just happens to you imagine if you were the one inflicting all the pain it would be too much guilt to handle for me.

I is just so unfortunate. I am trying to be stronger I am just not made that way. It feels like I am so weak unable to maove on and have good days and I look at my friend whose little boy has cancer and she is always positve and just goes with the flow. I wish I was more like that.\
HF

HF,

You are stronger than you realize. You will get there...I think back to when I was where you are (time after DDay) and I was a total and complete mess...It just takes time. Lots of time. I think it's better to know that it may take 2 yrs to recover because then you can kind of prepare and know that you will have good days and bad days. Try to enjoy the good moments for what they are.

I don't think I could handle the guilt but at the same time, I don't think he could handle what I'm going through. He would not be able to handle me having an A and a double life for all of this time. He knows this, because I asked him what if the tables were turned? He wouldn't be able to do it. I don' t know if he would even try to work it out with me...

I'm trying to take my own advice and work on myself so that I can better handle the ups and downs.

Hope you have a good weekend!

Good Morning Mama
How is everything with you? I had a preety good weekend. fri and Sat were great and Sun I started to melt down a bit. We went out Sat night and we were both tired and crabby on Sun. Sometimes I think the pain is never going to subside and others like Fri and sat I think hey this isnt so bad! I will be fine! Its so tough. I am grateful that H is with me and willing to work on it but I still get stuck on stuff that I cant get past. I am trying like you said to just go wiht the moment and nopt worry about when the next breakdown is coming.

I think I told you MC said men are far worse copers than women when this happpened. I asked H if he ever thought about OWs H. He said only "what if this was my wife doing this?" For my H I should be aperfect mother wife not a hose bag like he was. He couldnt handle me being like that I know that for sure. He still hates that I had a life in college wihtout him!

Hope you had a good weekend!
HF

Hi MF and Hoping,

I haven't had a chance to write back.

I told him he has to accept responsibility for his actions. I am so tired of me getting the blame when things go wrong. It always seems things get twisted and it winds up being my fault. I'm having enough of a time dealing with everything and then to get the blame on top of it, just makes me feel hopeless.

I feel like I'm going around in circles again.

Hi Girls,

I am so angry today!!!!
Well, much to my surprise I found a letter that he had written to OW.He told me nothing of this. He said in the letter that they had a discussion. I'm sure when they were alone, she told him how much she loved him, how he left her, and all that baloney. There aren't any cameras or anything, so they can say whatever they want. It makes me so maaaaad!

I told you I felt something was wrong!!!! I know he didn't tell me everything that happened, especially the letter. If he was just trying to reason with her - he should have told me. He completely left out that he had a discussion with her.

He told me he didn't have any contact with her. I'd like to know what's going on. I know sometimes he feels he shouldn't tell me things because I get upset, but I hate to find out afterwards because I feel he's not telling the truth. I heard so many lies, sometimes I don't know what the truth is.

I swear, everytime you think you are getting ahead you take two steps backwards.

I don't know what to believe anymore.

Oh F&L thats terrible! He should be truthful with you by ALL means! I am sure he is trying to save you from feeling jealous or hurt but it just looks so bad! Why are they so stupid????

I just had convo with H this am about the lies he told and he insists they were to save me from being hurt. I think they were mostly to save himself from being hurt.

If he was going tomeet with her he should have asked someone else to be present just to prevent further reason for her to bring up charges. He is leaving the co anyway right? Have you been to his office lately? just wondering if you have afeeling of the atmospher there.

He needs to be completely honest with you and tell you every little thing and contact needs to STOP. I realize this must be hard in the same office. And he cant look at you like you are the bad guy for asking him to quit. He created the mess he is in. I almost asked my H to quit just be because OW was in the same industry as him and I hate thinking of him traveling around wiht women any more.

You should read the policies on honesty here and print them out for your H. Healing and recovery cant start IMHO unless honesty is the 1st policy. I told H I would not be lied to ever again. I have always been honest wiht him about everything (granted I had nothing to hide). I am sure you have been honest too. You need to make him see things cant move forward unless he is honest and if he wants to save the M he will want to.

I hope I dont sound too hard headed. I want to follow my own advise its all much harder when its your own life not a Maury show!

Do you guys go to MC. I dont know if it helps me but it does make my H see he needs to be more patient and understanding and for that reason alone its worth it.

I think you are doing the right thing by leaving it on the counter. Let him explain it. Try not to blow up right away (I would I know that). Give him a minute to dig himself out. I would say follow your instincts but I know for me I have no idea whats going on in my life apparently! Good luck tonite I will be thinking of you and praying for the best!
HF

Hoping,

Well I found out the real story last night - a lot of arguing.

I asked in a round about way if he knew what had happened. He said he hasn't talked to her about anything in a long time - no talking to her alone.

At first he didn't want to admit that he had been with the OW, but finally did. My husband said he wanted to clear things up. He got angry with me saying he didn't trust ME. He doesn't like me snooping into his work business. He can't trust ME??????

He didn't tell me because he knew he wasn't supposed to be talking to her at all - the administration even told him this. He is not supposed to have any personal contact with her.

He knew I would get upset, so he didn't want to tell me. I told him it's worse when I find things out later, than if he would have told me in the first place.

Sometimes, he just does such dumb things and regrets it later. I told him so many times to be honest and don't hold things back, no matter how small. They always wind up to be blown into a big thing.

His first instinct is to lie - I don't know why. He always thinks I'm going to use things against him - as some sort of evidence. I'm not going anywhere or have any intentions of doing so - he knows this. I'm trying so hard to support him, not get angry and make make things work.

I told him I'm trying so hard to believe and trust everything he says and does - but when he does these things - it just does the opposite. Why can't he realize this. Things go along fine for a while - then he does something dumb to set us back.

This site was great for me in the beginning because people gave me insight, hope and I had a place to vent. I still need this every once in a while.

Things are better this morning - he called and we talked - said he always wants to protect me from finding things out - so I won't get upset - he thinks I'm fragile.

Whew! What a scene huh? My H is the same way with the lying about little things. I actually was telling him about your situation last night and when I got to the punch line "so he had a meeting with her and didnt tell F&L" he was like "Yaaaa....and?". I dont know if its the whole species or what? Why dont they understand that honesty is so important to us after we have been lied to? I dont get it!

Can I ask you did your H lie to you before the A? I dont think my H did but he is so ussed to lying I think it doesnt bother him anymore. If I say what did you do? He says when to a bar with work people. It turns out it was one girl from his office. THATS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!

My H still justiofies his lies. In 2003 I asked him if he had ever cheated becauise I was having a female problem and the dr said it could be sexually transmitted. He of course said no in 2003 so I asked him the other day and he sai well I alwasy wore a condomn so I frigured it couldnt have been from OW. Still justifying! That makes me so mad!

I cant believe what went on at your Hs office. Its really outrageous. If there was a place to be tranferred to she should have been gone day 1. Thats poor management and could have saved your H his job. Althought from what you have said before its probably better that he is leaving that crazy place.

I am glad you aare having a better day. I am off the MC today but am dreadding it as last time I was not happy when I left. Ugh....I am trudging thru hoping to have a good day soon. I think the initial shock and despair is wearing off for me and I am just getting angry and disgusted by what he did! Its just so gross when I think of it. I have to figure out a way to accept it but its so hard. I really feel wronged and I dont know how to accept he is human and flawed. I know I am too but i never would have done this I never could have hurt him like this and I hate thinking that he is capable of this.
HF

Hi Ladies,

Sorry that I have been away since last week. Been very busy at work and not able to check in. I just caught up on your posts....So much has happened to you both./..

F&L , Sorry to hear about the whole situation at your H's work. I hope that it all works out well and that your H figures out that you are the one who is truly on his side, no matter what happens. He shouldn't be blaming you for losing his job, but he hasn't accepted the responsibility for that yet...The bottom line is that it was his choice to have the A, and any consequences that result from it. She is the one making problems for him, not you. My H also lies about things like this to protect me...and also makes decisions without consulting me, that he regrets later. How many times have I thought, why did he do this?

Hopingfor, Good luck on MC. I hope you have a better session than last week. Try to look at the big picture. I hope your days are getting easier. You may be hitting the angry stage now which is normal, and means you are progressing toward recovery...so that is a good thing.

As for me, I only have a few minutes, but I am doing much better than last week. We have both assured each other that we are committed to the M and had gotten lazy with MB and relationship talk. He has assured me that he loves me and is glad that he married me, has complimented me over the weekend on what I was doing. He is very depressed and I think it is his guilt catching up with him. He does not know how to reach out to me so he withdraws, and I withdrew from him last week because I was so frustrated.

I hope you both have a good day/night and I will be back in touch later. I am thinking of both of you, even if I am not posting as much.

Hi Hoping and MF,

Hoping: Before the A, my husband never lied to me. I could always tell if he was lying about something small because he would always have this silly grin on his face.

It's funny, because my husband thinks by only telling half the truth that it's not a lie. He just omits half of the part that he's not supposed to be doing. He only tells me what he thinks I want to hear. Then when I find out about the rest, making him a liar, he also justifies his actions -as to why he didn't tell me and why it was just an innocent thing.

Hope the MC goes ok. How many times have you gone? You should be feeling better now. My husband and I have stopped going, because after a while we really didn't have too much to say to him - things were progressing smoothly - no too much arguing - but we left it open, so we could go back if we needed to. My biggest thing, too, is accepting what he did - it's very hard. It's just so hard to get the mental picture out of my mind - of the two of them together.

Mamafish: I hate when my husband withdraws from me, because that makes me immediately feel something is wrong - that's what he used to do when he was having his affair. So, when he's withdrawn, quiet, or doesn't want to talk - a "red flag" goes up. I keep asking him if anything is wrong, please talk to me, I'll understand, etc. After a while he usually opens up.

My husband loves me too, but sometimes he's just such a "hard head". Sometimes, I'd like to hit him over the head with a frying pan to knock some sense into him. He's such a an intelligent man (book smart)but has no common sense.

Darn this internet, I almost lost everything I wrote.

Hey girls, I'm back again...

My H would lie to me at times before the A and I would usually know it was a lie by his face also. During the A, he got very good at it, to the point that he didn't know what the truth was, he had told so many lies, that he stopped talking, couldn't keep track of everything, did he tell me this or tell OW this?? He was caught a few times by me for stuff he swears he told me.

Now he looks me in the eye (I make sure) and I still search his eyes to see if it is the truth. I can't trust his eyes anymore...

Question on HPV--if there is no medication and no way to treat it, what do you do if you are diagnosed? Does this mean that you could have it, then it goes away, and you won't know unless you have that test? Does the test tell you if you had it in the past without knowing? I also never had an abnormal pap test.

After DDay, I said to him, you lied when I asked you if there was someone else, you lied right to my face. His answer was, no I didn't, I didn't look you in the eyes...
That was his justification!!! He didn't look me in the eyes, so what does that mean, it wasn't a lie??? !!

Your H's company is not handling this properly, but given the situation you described with the moral atmosphere, that is not really surprising. They are trying to keep OW happy so that she does not press charges against the company or any of the other men she slept with. They are probably afraid she will bring the whole co down.

As for my H withdrawing, he also did this during the A so that was a big trigger for me, and I was lost in the past last week, not really caring, and thinking we should have been farther along than this. We made up on the weekend. I haven't pushed the MB but we talked more about it. He opened up more on Sunday, told me how he never expected to stay in CT for 18 years when he moved here from VA, but was glad he did because of me, and the kids. He was really sweet and appreciative of me this weekend. I think the guilt was getting to him, I really do. He is on anti depressents and was in a real funk last week. We are both better now. I 'm trying to not let his moods affect me. I told him that I was afraid to approach him last week and tried to leave him alone.

I find it very hard to accept what he did..the pictures in my mind...knowing he chose her over me for so many months. I will never understand...

It's nice that you are able to have fun with your dad, F&L...Enjoy those moments with him.

Have a good night gals. I;ll holler at ya tomorrow.

MF,

Here's what I know about HPV - I found out the hard way.

HPV is so wide spread - at least 80% of women have or had it once in their lifetime. Amond college students this is the most widespread STD disease. There are no symptoms in men or women. Only women can be tested for this by a Pap Smear. The Pap Smear will show abnormal cells and they test further to see why the cells are abnormal. Although, you have to ask to be tested for ALL STD's - and they will also test you for HPV. Men can't be tested - blood tests are inclusive. If you are tested for HIV - this does not include a HPV test. Incidentally, there is a new HIV test that they dip a swab in your mouth and have the results in 20 minutes. You don't need a blood test anymore. Lots of clinics do this for free.

There are several strains of HPV from mild to severe. If you have a certain strain of HPV, it could lead to cervical cancer - yes, cancer - I don't know which strain. Not all HPV's are cancer. Not all HPV's will show signs of genital warts. If you are tested positive for HPV, you will have a test that injects a vinegar solution into the vagina and the bad cells turn white - indicating HPV spots. They may want to take a biopsy, just to confirm it isn't cancer. If the biopsy indicates cancer a hysterectmy is recommended and whatever else is needed to treat cancer.

If you test positive for HPV you will have to be tested every 6 months for the next 3 yrs. It will usually take 1 yr. for it to heal, on average. There is no medication for HPV - no antibiotics. HPV has to go away by itself. Some people get it once and never have it again in their lifetime. Yes, you may get it more than once - it may reappear. But, if you don't have any signs of HPV after the 3 yr. period, you should be ok.

If you have HPV warts, there is a cream that could be put on them. Sometimes if needed the warts can be cut out. Men could be carriers and never know it, because they show no symptoms. CONDOMS DON'T PROTECT AGAINST HPV.

It can be spread by hand contact to infected area, by using same towels, underwear and then touching yourself. Your husband can touch a woman's vagina, without having intercourse, and if she is infected, he can get HPV and give it to you.

HPV can be detected several days after contact with an infected person. BUT, HPV can lay domant for months and years, yes years. You can have an outbreak years after contact with an infected person.

Important to all women: the best thing to do is get your regular Pap Smear every year. If you suspect your spouse was involved with someone - get tested immediately for everything, most important HPV. If you Pap Smear cells are normal - you're ok. For HIV, you have to wait 6 months before you should get tested. HIV takes a while to show evidence of being infected.

There is a new vaccine that's going to be available shortly for HPV, because it is so widespread. It has to be approved by the FDA. They want to give it to young people as a requirement, like measle shots, but it's a big issue, and will bring lots of controversy.

Hope, that's enough info for you. But, look it up on the internet anyway.

Hope all is well.

Hi F&L,

I haven't left MB yet, thanks for your quick reply. I am so sorry your DD and you had to go through all this. I had 2 pap smears last year, both were OK, one right before the A, and one at the end, but he had sex with her the week after I had that one done. So if the Pap results were normal, I would suspect that there was no HPV. But as you say, if it is dormant, who knows.

Thanks for the info! Have a good night!

MF,

My daughter's assailant was convicted..

I'm not going to say anymore, but you know how convincing someone who is older than you is. How can someone you trust, do this? She still doesn't understand how she could have been convinced to do this. She had to go thru so much shame and humiliation in school - when they found out


How he endangered her life. What a creap!!! I just wanted to slap the crap out of him. I want to stop, because the thought makes me angry.

If you have girls, please watch them very carefully. Watch what they do on the internet. Don't let them go on MySpace.com. - very bad sight!!!Always watch what they do on the computer. Watch their friends. My daughter never even went out at night, straight A student, and it still happened. Even if your children think you are being strict, so be it - it's for their own protection. Always ask where they are going and when they are coming home - check up on them, so see if they are where they are supposed to be. We thought we were strict, but we weren't strict enough.