Or extremely embarrassed or extremely confused or extremely indecisive or.......

Unless he IS willing to help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That's kinda my point.

Whether he's willing or not is not the issue. You NEEDING him to help is the issue.

Guys need to feel worth while. Asking for help with something - even if he refuses - presents the opportunity to fill that admiration EN.

I could be completely wrong about his state of mind. Just food for thought.

WAT

Thanks for the perspective.

I DO see your point. Admittedly, I am a little slow or obtuse or whatever when it comes to all of this. In my other life, I am a smart, confident, loving and beautiful woman. Has anybody seen her?

Sh*t, now I'm gonna be running around the house looking for something to break <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!!! Funny, that's how we met. I bought a minivan from the dealership that he worked at. He was the service advisor, and I kept having trouble with my van. They couldn't find the problem and I kept bringing it back, which gave me an excuse to keep seeing this really cute guy that I liked (him). I made up my mind to ask him out, but I kept chickening out. Finally, my friends told me that if I didn't get up my nerve and do it soon, I would have to start destroying my van on purpose in order to keep seeing him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />!!!

Got this email from WH yesterday:
"Hi
I was doing some paperwork at work at about 1:40 this afternoon. When I wrote the date it hit me like a rock that today is Josh's birthday. I left work early to get a card and left it in the mailbox. In it I wrote him a note saying that I am to blame for our current situation and that I would like to hear from him sometime so he can tell me how he is feeling. I'm telling you this just in case you want to intercept it for any reason."

He also made small talk on the email. I replied back that it was nice to hear from him and also kept it light.

He ended card to my son saying that he would like them to be friends again. My son cut up the card and the $20.00 bill into a zillion little pieces and put it in an envelope and left it in the stack of WH's other mail. Said,"Mom, please don't take that out of there. I want to make sure he gets that." This is the son (the 18 year old) that has been extremely angry and I know he got a lot of satisfaction from doing that. He tends to keep his feelings inside, so this was a way of venting for him.

His mother has talked to him a couple of times this week. No mention of OW or of her quitting her job. Two possibilities exist - he either wrote me because he hasn't been able to see her - maybe she ended it - or he's back on the fence because they have manged to keep the A going. Time will tell.

His mother did say that she told him if he "had any sense at all he would get his a$$ in his truck, drive home and do whatever it took to put his life and his marriage back together" (Go Ma!!). He replied to her "That's what everyone keeps telling me." Wonder who "everyone" is?

Interesting info. Nothing out of the ordinary, IMHO.

Patience, time, consistency.

Lizzie - be very patient. Time is your biggest ally.

WAT

Plan A is hard when you are not living in the same house. WH has periods when he contacts me quite a bit and then sometimes not at all. I have only heard from him once by email in the last 2 weeks. Even if A is ongoing, he must be experiencing SOME w'd now that he doesn't see OW at work everyday.

I keep struggling with whether or not to contact him - don't want him to feel chased or pursued. Sometimes it seems better if I hold back a bit. But this last 2 week period makes me feel like maybe things are slipping away. I am trying to be patient and still, but without contact I notice a shift in my feelings. I start thinking that maybe I should give up, cut my losses and run.

Anyway, I sent him an email. Kids are not home tonight so I invited him over for dinner and a DVD. Kept it light - told him me and the dog and the cat would like to see him. We'll see.

Lizzie, do you have any indication of whether or not the affair is still ongoing? If you really think it is over, then probably is in withdrawal and is angry that you ruined his affair. In that case, I think your tactic of being open, without chasing him, is a good one.

Secondly, if he is in withdrawal, you may start hearing from him when he starts coming out of the fog and his anger subsides.

But let's hope he responds to your invitation today.

Are you finding new things to do with your life so you aren't preoccupied with him?

I am trying to keep busy. I am swimming, running, doing yoga - the physical exercise helps me release a lot of emotion and tension.
I am converting my daughter's room into an office, so that keeps me busy.
The bulk of my time is spent reading here and reading many of the books recommended. Soooo...while that is all good and I am learning a lot....it also keeps me focused on my WH and the A. It seems to always be at the back of my mind.

WH accepted my offer and came for dinner. I think maybe he's in w/d. We watched "Walk the Line" and he got a little weepy a couple of times. He was a little quiet most of night. When movie was over I hugged him and he became weepy again. I told him I missed him and he said he missed me too. I asked him to stay but he said "I can't. I'm not up for it tonight". We hugged a lot more and he continued to cry a little. I told him he could talk to me about anything at all if he needed to, but he said there wasn't anything he wanted to talk about right now. He has always kept a lot of his feelings inside. After a little while, he left.
I guess I did a good Plan A tonight. I'm sitting here typing this thinking how f***ed up this all is. He's possibly grieving the loss of his A, and I feel bad for him. I hate to see him so hurt, yet, I feel like there is a knife being twisted in my back. None of this makes any sense.
Someone tell me again about the difference between being a doormat and a welcome mat.

Whew! Well, you got through that one. I think you did very well. My WH never showed the slightest sign of being sad or regretting anything.

WH coming back over today to pick up his mail - he forgot to get it last night. He declined my offer of breakfast.
How do I find out status of A? Should I ask or wait to see if he tells me that it is over.
He is acting much like he did when we were first together. He had been dunped by his fiancee some months prior when she had an A with a married man. WH was very private, didn't talk much about his feelings. Over time, he eventually opened up to me and we could talk about anything...except for the feelings he had that led to the affair, I guess.
I am thinking he is in some type of w/d..so, I still keep doing Plan A and give him time to get out of the fog?
If not, should I be thinking about Plan B? I have been doing a really good Plan A lately and think I could keep on, but I have read that a lot of people wish they had gone to Plan B sooner. Do I hold his hand while he is hurting or do I set him adrift so that he can fully feel the consequences of A? I'm confused.

lizzie, I would ask him about it and engage him in a conversation. Let him know that you know OW has left her job. Ask if he is still seeing her. Tell him you can see he is very withdrawn and sad, can he explain? Tell him you are so sorry he is sad and that you are here for him. That is part of Plan A.

I think you are very correct about him being in withdrawal. It is because of this that I wouldn't consider Plan B. Plan B is a plan that is used when the WS is in an affair. I don't think he is still seeing her. If it turns out he IS, then it will soon be time for Plan B.

But be direct without lovebusting, Lizzie, and you will be fine.

I will ask him. Even if it is ongoing, he will most likely deny because he knows that I have been in touch with OWH. However, in light of his behavior, I think it is probably very likely.
Will post update later. Thanks, Mel.

Hi Lizzie - it's been a busy weekend for me so I haven't been MBing.

ditto Mel

Try real hard to be compassionate, even though it may turn your stomach to do so.

Be sure you have enough intel to say you "know" OW left the job if you feel you need to say this. If he asks how you know, be honest. Remember your mantra.

WAT
-------------------
"If being stupid got us into the mess, how come it can't get us out?" Will Rogers

Well WH came over after work to get his mail today so I started a conversation with him. Asked him why he was crying on Saturday and he said he didn't know. Told him I knew OW was no longer working at his company and then I asked if he was still seeing her. He said "sometimes". Well I clammed up after that and pretty much ended all conversation and he left. After a few minutes I got really angry and I thought that I can't do this anymore. It hurts way too much. So I drove to his apartment and I did Plan B in person. While I was there OW kept trying to call him. Her H is working tonight so they are planning on getting together I guess. I told him that I loved him and had been doing all that I could to change my part that may have created the environmnet for his affair, but I told him that this was just too painful for me. I told him to not contact me at all until he is ready to end the A and work on rebuilding the marriage and if I still have feelings for him at that point, we can talk. He did not seem upset in the least. Definitely the fogged out, cake-eating, fence-sitting SOB. During the conversation I probably made a couple of DJ's - I did say that he had no right to take what wasn't his. I let him know about my conversation with OWH and how hurt he was. I also used Orchid's line that I hoped he was happy, because I certainly wasn't, and OWH certainly wasn't, so someone should be happy with all this mess. He didn't have much to say except that he was still confused. I told him that was because he hadn't made a decision. I also said that she wasn't going to leave her husband for him, but he doesn't seem to care - caught up in the throes of addiction, I guess. So, anyway, here I am in Plan B. Hopefully, I'll find some sanity. And hopefully, this hurt will go away.

Also left a message for OWH at his job to let him know and to again ask him to keep in contact.

OK, lizzie - ya still gotta write a Plan B letter.

He needs the reference to refer to later for why you're doing what you're doing and what he needs to do in order for you to interact with him.

WAT

WAT,
Do you think I went to Plan B too soon? I know I reacted, but I have been thinking about it for a little while. Plan A has been very hard and after reading Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough", I realized that I needed to move forward with Plan B. Exposure is done, I have done a really good Plan A, and he is still straddling the fence. I am just a fill in because it is harder for her to sneak away. I think I need Plan B.

I will work on my letter and post for review.

Please give suggestions on this letter. I would like to email it to WH. Is there anyone else I should send a copy of it to?

Dear WH,

I am writing this letter because it is easier for me to convey how I feel on paper. What I said to you earlier, I am saying again in this letter. This is by far the hardest thing that I have ever had to do.

Like I told you in a previous letter, I have been working very hard trying to identify where the weakness in our marriage was and what role I have played in that. In my heart, I believe that any problems we may have had were and are entirely reversible. I was always so proud to call you my husband and thought I was doing what I could to make you proud to have me as a wife.

Since August, my heart has been hurting, and that pain has only gotten worse since I learned of your affair with OW. I have been praying and hoping that I could show you that we have a good chance of rebuilding our marriage, but I cannot continue to do that as long as you are still seeing OW. Surely, you can imagine the incredible pain and emptiness I feel on a daily basis. I have held on to so many memories of us – the joy and passion we have shared, the places we have been, the things we have done, and the family we have built – but most of all I remember the love that we shared. I love you like I have loved no other, but I feel my feelings for you starting to slip away. Before I let that happen any more, I need to take steps to protect myself and to protect the feelings that I still have for you.

WH, I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past. I believe our marriage could be better and stronger than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I am willing to fight this battle with you, but I can no longer carry on by myself.

I am asking you to not contact me in any way until you have permanently separated from OW. I am not doing this to be spiteful or mean. It hurts me too much to see you or talk to you knowing that you and she are still together. This is something that I need to do for myself and to preserve my love for you. Please go to the post office and change your address so that your mail will be forwarded to you.

I will hold you in my heart for as long as I can. If and when you separate from OW, I would be willing to discuss our future and how we can put our lives back together. Until then, please respect my decision and know that I will be praying for us. I miss my best friend and my husband more than I can say – please tell him that for me.

Moon and Stars,
Lizzie

Sounds good, but maybe a little long. These WS's have a short attention span.

Do you have everything else in place to do a good, dark Plan B?

Usually folks go into Plan B, and break it very quickly. They say they needed to talk to WS about this or that. It is better to plan ahead so that there is no reason to have to speak to him.

No other details to take care of. I am not very hopeful at this point. he keeps his feelings inside and just holes up in his apartment. He has stayed away from his family and friends. We just went for 12 days without contact after he found out about my exposure to OWH, so I don't think Plan B will bother him very much at all. I needed to do this for me. This whole thing has taken over my life and threatened my self-respect and my self-worth. I wanted to have a good plan A in place before I went dark. I might have been able to hold on a bit longer, but in all honesty, I think that it was just enabling him. He had no reason to get off the fence.

I feel a little relief right now. I'm sure this will get harder as time goes on, but I still think it's the right thing for me.