lizzie, all of your feelings are perfectly normal. It is normal to doubt everything he ever said to you. But, it is recoverable and it is possible to love and trust him again, if he is willing to do the work to repair the damage.

It won't be easy, I won't lie to you. You are looking at a tough year of recovery in a best case scenario if you take him back. On the other hand, divorce and starting over with someone else is often harder. So you have to make the choice.

That being said, you don't have to make any choice at all right now. You can sit back and see if he is really sincere about committing to your marriage or if he is just lining up a fall back since the OW just dumped him yesterday.

I get the feeling that the affair is probably not over, just recessed until the OW can get out of hot water. It rarely ends this cleanly without several resumptions. The last thing you want to deal with is a false recovery where he has not really ended contact. When he is really done, he won't be resistant to sending that nc letter. That is a good barometer of his sincerity.

So, take it slow and let him prove his sincerity to you. You are right to be sceptical.

Liz - I feel your frustration. I honestly don't know what I'd do in your shoes - other than what you seem to be doing.

Please tell me that your logic isn't being clouded by your "outside" prospect.

Being second choice or the default position must feel cheap. I can sorta relate to this in that I wasn't even THIS much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I recommend you let all this soak in for awhile. See what your H does. You've stated your conditions and you have no need to be in a hurry - since you're not gonna enter the market right away, right?

Bottom line - I understand your ambivalence. Your H has several strikes against him that require MORE than routine MB approaches. Your kids are not his and you have few financial entanglements. Further, you are probably an attractive choice for future suitors. You hold the cards.

The last thing you ought to do right now is jump out of the pot into the fire. Take your time. I didn't meet the love of my life until I was 49. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Liz,

Chiming in here...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> right now it is not about him but about his family. His letter does sound sincere but also sounds like he is scared of losing his options.

So my advice is to ask him what are his thoughts on a recovery plan. His letter was still all about him and not much about you (expect for the 2 wk comment).

He needs to earn you and your family's trust back. Is he up to it?

L.

First off, I called the "outside prospect" and cancelled the pending date and told him that I was mistaken in pursuing dating.

Spent most of day with WH today. I have the no contact letter. He will agree to counseling, but he is not happy about it...he doesn't see the point, but has agreed to give it a chance. Lots of good talking today. I still feel like second choice because he did say that if the OW had not chosen to remain with her husband, he's not sure what he would have done. hard to take, but honest, right? Didn't I read somewhere that it's not WHAT gets them home, but the fact that they DO come back to the M. He has read the first 4 chapters of SAA and stated that what he read was "eerily familiar".

At this point, I am being very cautious, but the no contact letter was HUGE, in my opinion.

Would love feedback.

lizzie, that is a good first step. Have you looked at the Four Rules of Protection article? That is what Harley recommends for reconciliation. And you are right, it matters not what got him back. As he withdraws frm the OW, he will draw TO you regardless of why the affair ended. [provided you are a safe place to land]

I would pay particular attention to the HONESTY PORTION of the 4 Rules. He will have to PROVE to you that contact truly is ended. I would ask him how he intends to do this and suggest that he open up his life to you. That is the start of rebuilding trust. In the meantime, watch your back and keep your eyes wide open.

Update on our progress:

WH spent the night last night and stayed for a while today. We are trying to work out the details of this recovery. His suggestion: "Spend time together and make lots of deposits into our love banks". Can you believe it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He HAS been reading! So far I have the no contact letter which will be sent out tomorrow. I'd like to deliver it to the wh*re in person, but will not sink to that level.

We have discussed the 4 rules of protection. WH has agreed to be an open book. I also told him that I do not want to constantly be harping on him about maintaining no contact and it would be easier for me if every day he would reassure me that he was committed to the R and tell me that he has maintained no contact. He said he is willing to do that. I also asked him what he needs and he replied "affection and forgiveness. I need you to have faith in me again someday."

Have also talked a lot about the things that have bothered him about our M and a lot of them hit home with me. I am a much stronger personality and he always let me take the lead because he is more passive, but he really resented that a lot, and never said anything. So for now, we have agreed to try to take things slowly - he will be talking to the boys later this week - and to work on spending time together and just talking.

So I feel OK. Still really scared. I vacillate between feeling really courageous and really foolish.

Sometimes, I still hear a little "fog" talk, but that's normal, right? It will be some time before he's fully out of this. By fog talk, I mean that sometimes he still tells our history a little differently and then at others he is right on track. Maybe we just remember it differently?

Anyway, how am I doing?

lizzie, he should be going through withdrawal real soon here and it might not be pleasant. I will give you a link about withdrawal and what you can both expect. You should expect some fogginess for at least 6 months. And it will be very hard to meet his needs until he is out of withdrawal, so prepare yourself for that.

You are doing an excellent job of laying out a plan of recovery. I am alot like you in that I am very strong willed and tend to overwhelm my H. I ran off my last H doing that and have learned to stand back and let my H take the lead.

My natural tendency is to just take over and make all the decisions. This is the kiss of death in most marriages and made my H feel disrespected and less of a man. It is good that you realize this so you can retrain yourself.

Have y'all had STD testing?

withdrawal: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

Yes'm to the STD testing. According to WH, when he saw OW on Weds. night that was the first time in 2 weeks. We talked about withdrawal, and apparently he has been going through it off and on for some time. I posted on 3-18 that I thought maybe that was the reason for him being weepy that night. So, we discussed it and are both anticipating it. He did say that he thought he would miss her. I thanked him for being honest with me about his feelings and told him I would support him as best I could. He again told me of his committment to no contact.

I believe that she will try to contact him once she gets the no-contact letter. From what I have found out about the skank, my H is not the only one to have left his home and family in hopes of being with her. It is a game she plays. There is even a rumor that her youngest child is not her husband's. So, I am sure that she will try to get him to break no contact so she can get a thrill. We have also discussed this. I hope she does just to prove me right!

hi Liz - glad to see some progress.

disclaimer: I have NO experience with marital recovery

Because of that disclaimer, I cannot speak from experience, only from what I've learned from others here on this forum.

An indicator to watch closely, I deduce, is his reaction to counseling. Not being "happy about it" may be either an expectation to be judged, fear of looking inwardly, or insinceriety to really work on the marriage. His reaction may help in determining which.

Pleae so some homework before selecting a counselor. Half of them are below average. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The MB counselors are consistently praised and recommended if the counselorees can accept the telephone interface. It stands to reason that face to face interaction may work better for some people.

WAT

WAT,

No disclaimer necessary. I have come to greatly value and respect your opinions, not only to me, but to other posters as well. As I have said in previous posts, your way of thinking and acting is very much in keeping with mine....SO don't go anywhere, OK?

As far as the counseling goes, I believe that it is a combination of expecting to be judged and a fear of looking inward. He said that he feels like a counselor will "take sides". Other than the few counseling sessions we had when he was involved in the A (and it was still secret), he has never had any experience with what counseling is. I have explained it from my POV and that is when he agreed to try it.

In the meantime, he has been reading. This is a BIG indicator for me of his sincerity, because he hates to read. SAA has really hit home with him.

For the first time since the A was revealed, he saw his entire family yesterday. He had Easter dinner with his family and I had dinner here with my children. That was also a big step. In a letter he wrote me (another big step for him), he talked about the shame, embarrassment, regret, anger, and loneliness that he has been feeling because of what he has done. His reputation is badly damaged at work and with his friends and family, and he knows that he will have to repair that.

In the meantime, I will try to do what I can to fill the EN's that he will let me. He will be coming to pool with me on Wednesday night (we are in the playoffs!!) and will be walking into a situation where numerous men have hit on me, everyone thinks he is a big loser, and people will probably make rude comments. He knows this, but is willing to take the plunge towards getting our lives back together. I will be there standing at his side, classy, strong, supportive...his WIFE. Your advice previously, WAT.

All in all, I believe a slow approach is necessary. I usually step right in, take right over, and lead, lead, lead. For him (and probably for a lot of people), that is a big LB. In this, as long as he is sincere, maintains NC, and we continue to follow the rules for recovery, I am willing to let him set the pace. I believe we have made some real progress this weekend. Probably more open and honest discussion from him than I have ever heard. He is not a talker...so I am hopeful, but ever cautious.

Last night he called before going to bed to tell me about his dinner with his family and ended the conversation with the 2 things I told him I needed: he told me he loved me and that he had maintained no contact. I thanked him for honoring that request without me having to ask.

Should I move to the recovery board? I have done a little lurking there, but I guess i am not ready to say I am in recovery...or am I?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I don't now the answer to that!

Are you superstitious?

WAT

Very!

In that case, "lurking" is probably legal, but posting there might be a jinx. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe if you caveat any posting there as "tentatively in recovery" that would provide immunity.

As you should be aware, recoveries are prone to false starts. Not all, but many. Go slow and remember that optimism is contagious.

WAT

WH has had NC with OW since 4-13 and we have been spending quite a bit of time together, talking and taking things slow. WH at times is talkative, at others, not so much. All in all, we are proceeding cautiously.

Here is my problem. I have spoken to both of my sons and told them that we are talking about trying to work things out. Youngest son cried quite a bit because he is afraid of being hurt again, but is also hoping that his step-father will come back home. He has been missing him a lot. Oldest son (18) is extremely angry and wants nothing to do with WH. Says that he will never forgive him, that he doesn't deserve a second chance, etc. I tried to talk to him and acknowledge his feelings but to no avail. He says that if WH moves back home, he will not speak to him or even eat at the dinner table with him. Doesn't want to go to counseling - keeps all of his feelings inside. This is a kid who is usually very loving and giving - but in this he is relentless.

So, I am torn. One son wants us to work things out, the other doesn't. Ultimately, I know that this is my decision, but I don't want to feel that i am in the position of choosing either my kids or my H - because quite honestly, after all I have been through, my kids would have to come first.

Anybody go through anything similar? I am looking for any suggestions.

While it is good to take your children's feelings into consideration, when those feelings are based on too much emotion, then you'd best make your decision based on a clear mind, calm heart and lots of love and patience.

What is the Xws willing to do to earn his family's trust back? No 1/2 hearted recovery......there's a lot of hurt feelings to heal.

L.

Hi Liz - this is a toughie.

The 18 yo is, well, 18. What's in his near term future? Going away to college maybe? Heading out on his own in the employment world?

I suggest you acknowledge his feelings, but be a parent and say that you are making the decisions for the household. "I sincerely hope that you will embrace the family either way it turns out, but I acknowledge that I cannot force you to accept any outcome. In time you will be forced into tough situations and have to make tough choices. Welcome to life."

I have a 17 yo son who knows everything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He also resists and poo poos my "power" over him. It's quite a challenge. I keep in mind that famous Mark Twain adage:

Hope this helps a bit.

WAT

It seems the more time I spend with WH, the angrier my 18 year old becomes. I have not even told my oldest children about this tentative reconciliation because I fear more of the same reactions. They are all fiercely protective of me as they have seen the crap I have lived through before and have been witness to this betrayal. I am afraid that they will see me as weak instaed of forgiving. I am planning on scheduling a family session of counseling for me and the boys this week and see how that goes.

Still very unsure about recovery. WH is reluctant to talk or counsel. I sense that he wants to deal with this the same way that he has dealt with everything in his life - bury it. I have told him that that is not acceptable. We are writing each other letters - it seems to be a good form of communication for us. He expresses himself much more easily in a letter. Taking things slowly is very hard for me because I like to fix everything, but I know that he is feeling overwhelmed with the far reaching consequences of his A. I guess any progress is good progress and he has maintained no contact as far as I can tell.

Would love to hear anyone's experience in this early phase of recovery - what to expect, what to do, what to focus on, etc..

Thanks.

Let your children (who s/b part of your support group) know how much you appreciate their help. Also let them know that due to circumstances, they may not have all the details but enough to know how to lend you support. Then let them know that since you have taken them into your confidence you will respectfully hear their POV and suggestions, providing it is done respectfully. The last thing you let them know is based on all this you need to ask that they respect your decisions regarding your M.

This has been done before.

JMHO,
L.

I am so confused. Hopefully, I can get some much needed feedback. WH (FWH?) has maintained NC with OW since 4-13. He spends every night with me (except for the ones that I work), accounts for his time, calls me at work, and in general has been honest as far as I can tell.

Not much into talking yet though. I know this is normal and I also know that his ambivalent feelings about saving the M are normal as well, but they still hurt and confuse me. Since H is uncomfortable talking, I wrote a letter to him last week and included some of the MB postings about W/D and recovery and offered my support to him. I have been encouraging him to talk, because he tends to avoid conflict and stuff his feelings and I think that contributed to his A. I also asked him for a key to his apartment, but he has stated that he is reluctant to do that as he feels his apartment is his "safe haven". Do I think he is still seeing OW? No, I really don't. He says he is scared and confused, unsure what the future holds, some days he is ready to jump back in and others he feels he has to pull away. Is that normal?
Not sure what avenue to take here. I really need him to be transparent, but I can see he is on guard and wondering if I will revert to being "pushy" to get my way.
Should I write another letter explaining how I feel? Ride it out? Should this be somewhat like Plan A again?
All of this is complicated by sons' anger. He is over quite frequently but has yet to formally apologize to sons. He is friendly, but I think they need to hear his remorse. He, of course, just wishes this would all go away and we could put it behind us. I don't think he is being callous or insensitive, just that he wishes to not face this. If that is the case, I have little hope that this "recovery" will be real.

Suggestions and feedback, PLEASE.

There is no hurry to do anything. It sounds like things are going fairly well. If there is NC, your husband should be coming around in another couple of weeks. I would keep doing what you are doing, and give it some time.

It is much too early for him to really feel any remorse, so don't expect that. The fact that there is NC needs to be enough for you right now.