RT - which is exactly what I wish he could get through his fogged out brain.



Mel - you are right. I am so confused right now - to the point of not even knowing if I want to work to get him back anymore. I don't even feel like sending him that note, but I will. It was easier in Plan B when I didn't have to hear his crazy ideas and hear him badmouth OWH and defend OW. That's taking deposits out of what little is left in my Love Bank.

I like what you added to my note:



Elspeth - I agree that rolling debt into a refi is a bad idea especially if you don't have a solid plan to fix how it happened to begin with. I want to discuss other plans with him once we reconcile.

Orchid - I absolutely don't want a WH. The more I think about that last note, the less I want to even work on getting my H back. I have to remind myself that the note DID NOT come from my H though. I have forgotten that it is the WH who is still corresponding with me. I need reverse babble badly. I am going to think about some of the things he has said to me recently & figure out a good reverse babble response. I am sure he will say similar things to me in the future.....

thanks!!! from a not so enthusiastic Kim....

Melody -

Should I give him the whole print out(you gave me a link a week or so ago) for the Four Rules of Recovery(includes the letter from the woman in an A & Dr. Harley's response) or shorten that & give WH only the specific four rules??

Kim

I agree with Elspeth - the refinancing is a bad idea, even if you two were getting along famously. He needs to live within his means. This will be good for him in the long run.

I don't know, whichever you think is best. I can understand how he is running down your lovebank, that is because he is not sincere. But please understand that holding your ground and being patient will get you what you must have. He is still very fogged out and is trying to manipulate you.

I don't know that you really comprehend how very adept at manipulation he is because you are not manipulative AT ALL. You don't really expect or see it in other people easily. To a former professional bullshi* artist like myself, I can see it VERY CLEARLY. And he is bullshi**ing here.

Thanks Believer - I know it is true.

Mel - I think I will shorten it. I want him to see the meat of the link(the four rules).



I swear, he was not like this before the A. I'm just blown away by it all......



I will.....

Thanks Mel,

Kim

Do you think another copy of the WS toolkit would be helpful? I gave him to him way back in August......It's long also. Perhaps I should just stick with the Four Rules of Protection........

Kim

I agree with sticking to the 4 Rules of Protection. I don't think he is at a place where the WS handbook would have any impact.

Please don't feel guilty about not bailing WH out of his financial bind. Would you cosign a loan with your sibling that said they will stop smoking crack??

I hope you have a good Sunday.

Thanks Jean - You too!! Hope you enjoy your day. It's going to be a beautiful day here!!

I don't know what's wrong with me though. I woke up with a sick feeling in my stomach. I keep reading the letter for WH. I added "I believe in us." at the end. I wanted something to let him know there was hope. For some reason I feel like this is an ultimatum of sorts.....I guess it is. These are my conditions and if you can't meet them, then forget it.

But the four rules of protection shows him that there is a plan and that I want to work on the M.

I've got to stop analyzing this!!

Kim

Kim, he will respect you for standing by your conditions and refusing to negotiate. When he does come out of the fog, he will be GRATEFUL because your actions will have brought him to his senses.

Promise me that you will put in the part about the OWH, Kim. I think that is the key here, because if he knows that OWH will be kept in the loop he will be less apt to try and pull a fast one here. If he balks at this, then you KNOW he is not sincere.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T! I've got that song going through my head!

Alright, here's the reply from WH - he says he doesn't know how we can communicate if Iwon't speak to him. He says he HAS written the letter to OW/me but would like to have the counseling session first. He stills says the letter cannot be mailed. He does not want it ending up in the "wrong hands". Says "he will not be responsible for any ammunition ending upin OWH's hands." Then "As long as the message is delivered and you approve I don't know why it must be written."

Then he suggests that I ask Steve or Dr. Harley if this would work. "Otherwise, I don't have a problem meeting your requirements. OW did what you asked her to do - now I am doing what you are asking. I want to be a functioning family again.

Love, WH"

so - first off, when did I ever ask OW to do anything? Is he referring to the copy of the Plan B letter? at the end I told OW that I would wait for my chance to show WH that I loved him, that DS needed him home......

WH is closer, but still not there. He does sound open to counseling with SH. I think my next step is to call WH tomorrow night & arrange a time where we can both talk to SH.

How does that sound?

Kim

I think I would just let Harley try to break through WH's BSometer.

Just out of curiosity, I wish you could ask WH "What is the worst thing that could happen if OWH's knows you are done rutting around with his wife?" I just don't get your WH's stance on that.

I'd just let SH talk to him and then advise you from there.

Jean -

I think that is the next best move. When WH gets something in his head, it takes FOREVER to break through it.

I had asked WH what his problem was with OWH getting the NC letter. I said "OWH should be thrilled to see that you are out of their lives." WH said "I don't want to give OWH anything to be thrilled about."

It's not like the A is a secret or anything, so there would be NO ammunition.

ML says that WH doesn't want OWH to get the letter so WH can keep the A a secret & continue pursuing the OW>

Maybe I should say something like this to WH: WH, I hear you keep saying that OWH doesn't need to see the letter. That just tells me that you want to keep it a secret so you can continue pursuing OW."

WH has been conned by OW. In a big way.

I hope one day he sees the truth of this. I just don't know how I can move forward working on the M if WH is still holding this huge torch for OW, putting her on some kind of pedestal. Oh, and he's making OW out to be a martyr(did I spell that right?) "OW did what I asked her to do."

Now, I'm going to vomit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Kim

Kim,
I hate to bud in here, but his stance on OWH not finding out about the note is really troublesome.....He is still worried about OW! I know WS go through withdrawl and all that, but is he not going to keep wondering about OW's supposed safety after he moves back home?

I just worry he may contact OW later if he is so concerned about her. He does not get yet, that he needs to be concerned about YOU, the woman he married and wants to reconcile with.....

All the best, lets see what others say to this new development.......

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Concern about the OW was the last thread for my FWH..

He continued to feel GUILTY about USING her and CONCERN about her DEPRESSION after he left... FOR WAY TOO LONG...

This is the major need for the FOUR RULES OF PROTECTION...

Even though he didn't not want to be with her, he, at first, accepted primary responsibility for starting and maintaining the A...

The more I talked bad about her..the more he felt sorry for her..

Over time, he has come to DISLIKE her and to see her through CLEAR not FOGGY lens but it did unfortunately take a LONG, LONG TIME....

YUCK....

I don't believe for a minute he is worried about the OW or her safety. If he was, he wouldn't be having an affair with her. I think he is worried about outing the affair by sending a letter to the OWH. That will ruin his plans.

Kim, I don't think you should tell him what you really think about it, unless you happen to have a conversation about it in the future. I think you should just tell him your condition and leave it at that.

Mimi - so did you stop talking bad about her? or continue until he got it??

MelodyLane - Since he sounds willing now to speak to SH, would you suggest going ahead with that? Even though he still has not agreed to all of my conditions??

Thanks!

Kim

Kim, hold out until he agrees. No sense in wasting your time until he does.

Mel -

He just sent up a note - to let him know when our session with Steve Harley is scheduled so he can plan ahead.....

I don't know, I'm really thinking hard about this.

Kim

Did he agree to the other points? You told him not to contact you until he agreed to everything. Until that happens I wouldn't even respond.