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Kim, there is nothing here AT ALL taht indicates he wants to reconcile. NOTHING.
And another problem is that he CAN'T set YOUR conditions. YOU set the conditions. I think it is best he speak to SH and let him determine if he is sincere.
You said in your note yesterday that the nc letter must be delivered to the OWH, right? What was his response to that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Kim, he has agreed to all your conditions in the letter? Has he shown you the letter and agreed to send it to the OWH? Because that was one of your conditions. What did he say exactly?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just basically that he wouldn't be responsbile for any "ammunition ending up in OWH's hands"
Well, I'm not calling WH tonight. WH still doesn't see how there were TWO people involved in the A. He seems to believe that he was the only player here. What he can't get through his skull is that OW has choices too. OW chose to involve herself in an A. I don't think WH held a gun to her head.
So you agree that a joint session is in order? If they would let me e-mail Steve beforehand I'd love for him to be briefed. When I called last week, they said they could split the session with WH going first or vice versa.....
Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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Kim, he has agreed to all your conditions in the letter Yes, except for the letter getting into OWH's hands. He has agreed that the letter goes to OW. Has he shown you the letter No. If I talked to him tonight, I was going to ask him to read it to me. Then I was going to ask AGAIN for a copy. Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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I agree with just turning WH over to Steve. I know that my wayward-o-meter is probably all out of whack. I would not trust my instincts with the WS. Let SH sniff out the bull and get a cliff notes report.
Me-41 BS (FWS) DH-41 WS (FBS) 2DD's- 10 and 12 Married 15 years Separated for 2 years after my A Reconciled for 1 year before his A D-day for his A 8/23/05 WH moved out 9/16/05 Divorce final 1/23/07 Affair ended or month or so later My Story
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See, he is still trying to negotiate his return. He doesn't want he OWH to know so it will be easier to continue to pursue the OW. Don't back down on this condition, Kim!
I would set up a split session like you suggested and just let him know what time. You could go first and talk to SH and then WH could get on.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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AND here's what I'm betting....I'm betting that OW will show the letter to OWH anyway.
I remember OWH telling me once how his wife told HIM how WH kept calling her & calling her but she wouldn't return his calls.(This was way back in July I think)
I think that WH has OW figured all wrong. Poor little sap.
Another hunch I have is that OWH knows a lot about what WH is doing b/c OWH has figured out who I am on MB. Just a funny hunch from some comments WH has made to me. I know, highly unlikely.
Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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Kim, can you text message him and ask him to send over a copy of the letter for you to see? Did he offer to send it over since you told him you must see it?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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AND here's what I'm betting....I'm betting that OW will show the letter to OWH anyway. And I bet the odds are even HIGHER if he sends the OWH a copy! Especially, since there is ABSOLTUELY NO REASON to not send it to him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You could go first and talk to SH and then WH could get on. This might be my only chance for a while to have a session(got to watch the $$). If WH went first, then I would get the chance to know Steve's assessment. Otherwise I will have to schedule another session with him soon after..... Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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You could go first and talk to SH and then WH could get on. This might be my only chance for a while to have a session(got to watch the $$). If WH went first, then I would get the chance to know Steve's assessment. Otherwise I will have to schedule another session with him soon after..... Kim I gotcha, but how will SH know the status if he doesn't talk to you first? Can you split it up with you the first 5 minutes, then him, then back to you? Will they do that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Kim, can you text message him and ask him to send over a copy of the letter for you to see? Did he offer to send it over since you told him you must see it? I believe that right now WH is guarding that letter. He didn't give me a copy yet. I will text him tomorrow requesting he call me in the evening. Then I will tell him I need a copy of it. He is worried I will send it on in the mail, I'm sure. I can't very well approve the letter if I have no idea what it says! Should I tell him I need to see it before I schedule the session with Steve? Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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Kim, he has not really agreed to your conditions at all, has he? He is still trying to set his own conditions and is not ready. The letter must be approved by you and MAILED TOGETHER. It should be mailed to the OW and the OWH. Those were your conditions.
Kim, why are you backing down here? He is throwing you crumbs again. He has agreed to nothing except possibly counseling with SH.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What did his note actually say?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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gotcha, but how will SH know the status if he doesn't talk to you first? Can you split it up with you the first 5 minutes, then him, then back to you? Will they do that? I asked about that & they said yes, that if there was anything that I wanted to tell Steve before WH talked to him I could do that first. I think I'll have to 3-way WH onto the call with him on his cell. I am hoping that they will say I can send Steve a short e-mail beforehand....... Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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"I don't know how we can communicate if you won't speak to me. I have written the letter to OW/you but I would like to have the counseling session first. The letter cannot be mailed and end up in the wrong hands. I will not be responsbile for any ammunition ending up in OWH's hands. As long as the message is delivered to OW - and it is approved by you. Why don't you ask Steve or Dr. Harley if this would work. Otherwise, I don't have a problem meeting your requirments. OW did what you asked her to do - now I am doing what you are asking. I want to be a functioning family again. Love, WH."
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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Honestly, I don't see the point of counseling with SH if he won't even agree to do the VERY BASICS. He wants to keep his letter a secret from you and the OWH. That speaks loudly of someone who is still very invested in protecting his affair and not commited to your marriage. This step is recovery 101 and he isn't willing to take that step. He is still very much under the illusion that he can set the conditions of his return.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"I don't know how we can communicate if you won't speak to me. I have written the letter to OW/you but I would like to have the counseling session first. The letter cannot be mailed and end up in the wrong hands. I will not be responsbile for any ammunition ending up in OWH's hands. As long as the message is delivered to OW - and it is approved by you. Why don't you ask Steve or Dr. Harley if this would work. Otherwise, I don't have a problem meeting your requirments. OW did what you asked her to do - now I am doing what you are asking. I want to be a functioning family again. Love, WH." WH, please refer back to my recent note and see my conditions. Once those are met, I would be happy to discuss a counseling session with SH. Please contact me when those conditions are met. Until that happens, there is no reason to communicate. All my love, Kim
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mel - you are one hard @$$.
I will think hard some more on this & see how I feel tomorrow. I am leaning towards the session.....
Thanks Mel & Mimi for your help tonight!!
I so appreciate all of you -
Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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I have written the letter to OW/you but I would like to have the counseling session first. The letter cannot be mailed and end up in the wrong hands. I will not be responsbile for any ammunition ending up in OWH's hands. As long as the message is delivered to OW - and it is approved by you. Why don't you ask Steve or Dr. Harley if this would work. See, as long as you don't get to actually SEE the message and send it yourself, he can tell you ANYTHING and you wob't be any wiser. How would you EVER KNOW if he even sent it, much less sent the version he "reads" to you? You would never know. This is why the letter is to be mailed TOGETHER. But he is not interested in sending any letter at all, which indicates his lack of commitment and sincerity. Further, he still refuses to keep the OWH in the loop, which just tells me he wants to keep him in the dark for some reason. He wants the letter to be a SECRET. If he were really done, he wouldn't care.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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