Jean - Hi! I missed your post earlier..Thanks for checking in. I'm going to have to sleep on this one. What a mess!!

Mel - Perhaps I should give WH the number to Harley's show & let him figure it out himself!! Just kidding with that....

I believe I"m off to bed....Have a good night!

Kim

Well, it won't hurt anything if you do counsel with SH, but I don't think he is ready. And I don't think SH will allow you to settle for crumbs either. But the reason I am a hard [email]a@@[/email] is because I can recognize a bullshi**er a mile off and this SMELLS to high heaven, Kim. I also have seen the UTTER HE11 that other BS's have gone through in false recoveries. The he11 of a false recovery, because a BS settled for FOOLS GOLD, is usually worse than D-Day.

You have been through ****** enough. If you are just patient and persistent, you will get what you NEED.

Alright, let's slow down then. You are right. I don't even know the letter exists except that he has told me so. Next step is to actually see the letter. So, that will be my text message for tomorrow.

"WH, I need to see the letter."

Kim

I don't have anything to add... just wanted to check in and say hi, Kim!

Gotcha. And I meant that in a good way.

Hi SadMommy!!

Kim

I know ya did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel -

did you see my thoughts about texting WH tomorrow - you suggested it earlier, about asking him for a copy of the letter?

Kim

Kim, why not just set up the appt with SH and text him the time? You have stated your conditions and he still disrespects them.

You told him nc until those conditions are met and you should stick to that. Have SH discuss this with him and get SH's feedback.

Your H just threw you another nothing crumb and expects you to just drop your conditions after you have clearly stated them. There is no reason to continually debate, discuss, and reiterate your conditions. He knows them. He wants to take the control back and is manipulating constant contact with you.

Hi Kim-

Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I still maintain that he want's this to work, he just doesn't understand the reasoning.

Does he have e-mail???

Why don't you suggest that he e-mail you a copy of the letter, and then there'd be no danger of you sending it. Tell him that the NC letter would have to have his signature on it, and that he can call the Other Woman *OW* in the email instead of her name.

Would that work???

God Bless,

-Caren

U r still talkin' to a fog head so howz about a bito' babble.

Instead of "WH, I need to see the letter."

Try: WH, would like to see the letter so I can make a decision.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> That'll give him some umph incentive....he has no idea which way your decsion w/b and you need to keep him guessing. Work his gray cells. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I agree 100% with this plan as suggested by ML...

Mimi, take a gander at this note exchange below and you will see why I am so leery. She clearly told him NOT TO CONTACT HER unless these conditions were met and he responds that he won't honor that. He doesn't honor any of her conditions and still believes that he has the leverage to set the conditions of his return. Example, he refuses to give her the nc letter "but would like to have counseling first." Meaning that he is hopeful that a counselor will side with him and not make him send the letter. He wants Kim to ask Dr Harley if his method is ok, he doesn't care what Kim requires and doesn't grasp that this is a non negotiable point. And he refuses to allow the OWH to see it. because he is still trying to keep this all a big secret. No doubt to make his continued pursuit of OW easier.

I do think that SH will be able to flush out his BS, but I don't think this is ANY indication that he is prepared to come back because he is not willing to meet her conditions. I think it's important that she stick to what she said and not speak to him until those conditions are met, lest she ruin her credibiity with him. He has been using these negotiations to draw her out of Plan B and endlessly debate her conditions. That has to stop, IMO.

KIM [note sent last weekend]:

WH -

Your choices have put me in a position where there is no trust. Trust has everything to do with a M and finances. Successfully merging your finances in marriage requires honesty, communication, flexibility and trust. I would never consider entering into any financial agreement with you until trust is restored in our marriage after a successful reconciliation. A sincere commitment to our marriage and repairing the damage is required for reconciliation.


Here are the steps that need to happen in order for us to move forward:
1 - I need to see a copy of the letter you have written to OW. If I agree with what you have written, then it needs to be mailed together with a copy sent to OWH.
2 - Counseling with Steve Harley.
3 - A committment to the Marriage Builders four rules of Protection.

When you can tell me you are ready for this, let me know. I am not interested in negotiating. Please don't contact me again until you can.


WH [note sent yesterday]

: "I don't know how we can communicate if you won't speak to me. I have written the letter to OW/you but I would like to have the counseling session first. The letter cannot be mailed and end up in the wrong hands. I will not be responsbile for any ammunition ending up in OWH's hands. As long as the message is delivered to OW - and it is approved by you. Why don't you ask Steve or Dr. Harley if this would work. Otherwise, I don't have a problem meeting your requirments. OW did what you asked her to do - now I am doing what you are asking. I want to be a functioning family again. Love, WH."

When was the last time Kim spoke to OWH's?

I believe she emailed him back in late December, early January. It probably would be a good idea to inform him of these latest developments and ask him if anything else is going on.

If she has already spoken to the OMW once, that is enough

oops, sorry, OWH

No, its not. They should stay in constant contact until the affair is ended. And often afterwards to compare notes and ENSURE the affair is over.

I guess we have to agree to disagree

sfjaj, the purpose of contacting the OP's spouse is to kill the affair and make sure it stays dead; however many calls that may take. There is no "one call" standard.

I am speaking from the perspective of a FWW; there comes a point where the BS efforts look desperate to the WS,and that most definitely pushes the other away. Initial exposure to kill the A, but further efforts do nothing to appeal to the WS.