conversation went o.k. I told him I was not comfortable enough at this point meeting with him about finances, that it seemed weird. That I was confused.

I just let him know that a letter sent to OW would make me feel safe and able to move forward. We are still stuck on that. I didn't give him an ultimatum or anything, but let him know that was important to put closure on the R.

He has tried contacting her recently. 13 days ago. Said he gets lonely, needs a support system or something. I told him that was by no fault of mine.

He said that he knew I was probably having trouble with paying bills and that it would be crazy to let this ruin us finanicially. I told him that what was crazy was what he had been doing over the last 8 months.

He tried to pull the "our finances are already merged" line. I told him that the bottom line was that I was not comfortable and could not move forward even with a financial advisor.

We talked about ways to get the NC letter to OW. Then he started talking about how OWH treated her. I asked him to stop. I said everytime you start talking about her it hurts. I said it just drives that knife further in.

He said he wouldn't talk about her....that he didn't want to talk about her.

I told him that at the moment I still believed in us & our M. I tried to imply that I was not waiting around forever.

So, no letter. But WH knows he needs to get it done in order for us to move forward.

Now, I am going to go back dark again until I hear otherwise that WH has made a committment.

I feel better having gotten some things out in the open I just hope it doesn't have a negative impact on all that I've accomplished so far.

Kim

So doesn't this mean that he suggested meeting together with a financial advisor?



But, Kim, isn't this what Steve told you to do?

With me, Steve was pretty clear about.."DO WHAT I TELL YOU TO DO...I AM THE COACH"...



Sounds like to me that he may be recommending that you MEET with the financial advisor to gather info...not to make a decision..

This goes back to what MERGE was saying on Hurting's thread..the need for the WS to get the sense that you are LISTENING prior to RECOVERY..this is not about you AGREEING but being willing to LISTEN...



That's not going to happen for months and months and months..if ever...SORRY!!!

With a lot of this, unfortunately, I HAD TO JUST DO IT!! Sink or swim...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Kim:

This is a real quick "drive by" post.

WHY do you overthink this so much???

Your WH KNOWS WHAT HE HAS TO DO. HE KNOWS...HE KNOWS.

What is it that is so confusing to you? Is it that you DON'T Want to hear the reality that your WH is not ready to end his affair yet?

ALL of his excuses about giving the letter are pure and unadulterated Bull$hyyt. Plain and simple. No "nicer" way to say it.

He is a man who figured out how to cheat on you and his son....and got away with it for a good while.

He is NOT stupid. He is not CONFUSED ! He is not fearful for the OW's safety. He wants to be single now, and have the "right" to do whatever he wants (including have the OW) AND he wants you to help him with finances (this by the way is his biggest NEED now). The finances issue drives all of this.

It is all VERY simple. A man who wants something will go out and get it. If He WANTED to reconcile, and he wanted to end this other woman BS...HE WOULD DO IT. Oh yeah, I know there will be the "addiction" rationalizations, and the "confusing" rationalizations, yada yada yada...but come on now. Why are you denying the sky is blue here?

Plan A, PLan B, financial advisor...do whatever....but PLEASE, PLEASE do not self delude yourself here. Your WH is not ready to come home. He isn't. If he was, the letter would be sent, and you'd NOT feel so "wrong" about this. You feel the way you feel for a reason.

Perhaps he will do this in time, but ANYONE who tells you any different now is full of SHYYTTT. Expert or Non-expert....your being played the fool here if you think there is anything different going on.

Sorry if this isn't the "supportive" enabling stuff you needed to hear today, but I literally cannot sit by anymore and be silent ...at least today I can't....Perhaps a moment of weakness

Love ya either way.

Lem

Edited: For clarity

Kim:

BTW, I agree with Lemonman that your WH is not yet READY to come home.

However, I still wholeheartedly believe in the counsel of Steve Harley who spoke to both you and your WH by phone.

Steve has helped many, including me, to reconcile our marriages, if that is what you are wanting...

I regret that Lemonman continues to have to refer to folks in this way...as indicated below.. I don't feel that it is necessary...


Maybe you can understand this type of communication on your thread where we are all trying to help you but I can't...it's driving me away from helping you because I don't like to be in the midst of such hatefulness...YUK....

Well, now you know why he doesn't want to send the nc letter, he is still in contact and wants to continue chasing her. He is holding out of hope of CATCHING her in his chase, which also explains why he doesn't want the OWH to know. So, the nc letter is useless anyway.

Kim, you did so good in holding your ground on the nc letter.

I would just take it slow and let him know that you might be still there when he is sincere about ending contact. But, you can see he is not done with the affair. He is not finished chasing her and until he does, you aren't safe with him.

I don't think SH is telling you to bring him back under those circumstances, and have to agree 100% that anyone who tells you he is, IS full of SHYTT. But, I betcha already know that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was just going by what KIM SAID THAT STEVE HARLEY ACTUALLY SAID....

I don't agree with anyone using such language in regards to a poster here who is trying to be helpful...



I'm surprised at you, Melody..

IMO, one does not have to use such language to make a point to me or anyone else...

It's just not necessary...

I can listen to what you have to say without such rudeness.. in fact I don't listen to what someone has to say who has to resort to such gutter means of expressing their point of view...

That's just me...

Kim,

I reread all that you posted regarding your session with SH.


SH is clearly telling you both that the A has to be resolved before you can work on the M. Going to a financial advisor should happen when you begin to work on the marriage.



Did SH specifically tell you, to go see an advisor even if NC is not established, no letter has been written, and WH has not committed to ending the A?

I don't see anywhere in your post that he told you to go see the advisor even if NC is not established. Am I misreading it?

It sounds to me that he told you that when you do work on your marriage that you will have to address the financial situation, and show that you are hearing your H's concerns. However, that does not mean that you must agree to something (like to refinance). I just don't see where he tells you, that you must do this, BEFORE NC is established. I still see SH telling you that the A has to end first!


My opinion is, that your WH knows what needs to be done, and now is just listening to one part of the conversation with SH (the financail part!). He knows, NC is what needs to happen, that he needs to end the A first! He knows, and he is choosing to not do so.


all the best,
Daisy

Kim:

I certainly may have misread what you said.

My two cents is..I had many sessions with Steve Harley...

I found him to be more liberal than the folks here on the forum...

He also was VERY DIRECTIVE with me..telling me EXACTLY what he recommended for me to do...

He would say: WRITE THIS DOWN..SAY THIS..DO THIS..I WANT YOU TO GET THIS..I'm looking at some of my notes right now...

He sees himself as a COACH..

So I say..DO EXACTLY WHAT HE TOLD YOU TO DO...not what we say...

What matters MOST is that you are working towards RECOVERY of YOUR MARRIAGE..

Mimi, I am surprised that you are bringing your very apparent - and vocal - personal resentment against Lemonman to this thread. THAT is not helpful and I hope you don't allow your aversion to him and that kind of "gutter language" to divert you from the the issue at hand. That would be very tragic for Kimberly.

This is what she is not too clear about, Daisy, and sent SH an email. Hopefully, she can get some clear direction and also notify him that her WS is still trying to contact the OW, which is why he is so averse to sending the letter. Like SH said, the letter is a symbol of his INTENT and the fact that he won't send the letter is indicative of his intent. He is not commited to ending his affair and that is clear from his admission of recent contact.

This is what I was making reference to that Kim said:



She did not say that these actions should be done in a certain order. She said that Steve recommended for them to do these things.

Kim,

I think Lemonman and Melody Lane have this spot on here. Don't budge until your WS REALLY wants to come home.

Steve Harley recommends a STAGE OF NEGOTIATION...

Mimi, she is not clear on exactly which direction SH wants her to take. He has given her certain tasks, based on her situation and not anyone else's, and she is not clear on the exact path.

This is why she has written him in order to get more clarity. I know that SH told YOU certain things, but her situation and her H are not the same.

Of course, I know our situations are not the same. I was just saying that she should make sure to do what he says and it seemed like to me she said he told her to talk to a financial advisor...

She was told to gather information from a FA, but she is not clear on what the level of communication should be between she and WH since it is clear he is still actively pursuing the OW. Hopefully, SH will clarify this in response to her email.

He said we need to gather info from a financial advisor.





Well...I think that he is still too focused on the financial issues. He is not going to miss a chance to put the pressure on for that refinance.

I wouldn't go with him to see a financial adviser. I would go alone...and let him see one alone...then put them together and see where they meet...or differ.

Donuts to dollars, his is going to show that refinance in there..and it will become apparent what his agenda is.


I think you have a tougher nut to crack than SH is aware of ... yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JMHO
committed

Hi everybody -

Listen, I really, really appreciate the posts I get here. Eveyone's posts helps me to think, digest info and make sense of all of this mess.

I went over my notes that I took during the session w/Steve. Unfortunately when I get to the page where we start talking about finances my notes get sketchy. I wrote this "strongly suggest sitting w/a financial advisor to understand an option. don't either of you take the other as a financial expert. Get advice first."

I do believe like Mimi said that SH is more liberal than we are here on the forum. I just can't tell from my notes what order all of this should be taking place.

Steve did say that if it was finances that got us to this point, then "so be it." He's glad we are on the phone. That WH is interested in finding out what it will take.

Steve did speak AGAINST refinancing. So, WH did not get the o.k. from Steve to push me on that.

I have done a bit of research & have an idea of what I'd like to do to correct the financial sitch. But, I will take SH's advice and gather info - alone - and then share that info with WH.

Please, don't stop posting to me guys. I need your help. Each of you brings something to the plate --- You don't know how much I appreciate each and everyone of your input. I have long gotten adapted to everyone's style --



Mimi - I think that's where I am....but it seems WH is still so on the fence. I wish I had taken better notes. SH has not responded.....



Yep, that is so true.

Thanks again, all of you!!!!!!

Kim

Can you swing another session of your own with Steve?

That might be a great FINANCIAL DECISION despite its cost.

In the meantime, I would suggest waiting for your WH to contact you first..make him do most of the work...MODIFIED PLAN B...

You say he's on the fence..

Did OW break up with him and he is trying to get her back?

I'm sorry, Kim, I don't know the story on this...

Mimi -

He says that he misses his family. I point blank asked him a couple of conversations ago (probably 2-3 weeks) if "he was done chasing OW." He said yes, that it caused too much pain and that it just wasn't worth it.

And yes, it appears that OW has dumped him. WH said that he recently (which I don't know what his definition is of that) learned I had sent OW a letter --- The only letter I sent her was back in Oct. which was a copy of my Plan B letter with a note telling her that I loved WH & I would wait for the chance to show him that again & that DS needed his daddy home. WH said that this is the reason why OW wouldn't ever return his calls - b/c of my letter. OW is doing what I asked.

Again, WH is blaming me for yet another thing. OW won't call him b/c of me. But, I know this is all part of the process. Perhaps one day he will take some responsibility for all of this and stop blaming me for everything. It's like he blames life in general for everything that is happening -- nothing is b/c of him.

The reason I say he is on the fence still is b/c of he recent attempt to contact her - 13 days ago. He says one thing, but his actions show nothing.

Thanks!

Kim