Where in the world is anything in there a Plan B like issue? This tells me that you do not understand Plan B. Plan B isnt JUST no contact. I told my wife that I wanted us to POJA our future and that if she couldnt do that, then for many issues and reasons, I had to begin to make decisions on my own for the sake of the family. Plan B would come if I began down that road and she didnt coem with me. At that point, I could send a PBL, and continue down that road. The PBL would be so that she could not come along and interfere with my forward progress.


My financial changes were made because my wife refused to sit down and POJA them...and they had to be taken care of. They werent done for manipulation. Shoot, at the time I figured the opposite would happen...that they would just be an excuse for her to run away and end things. But I had to make those decisions. Far be it from manipulation!!


I dont have much to differ with you on this. I think dazed was laying it on kinda thick. But guess what? I dotn know Mrs. Dazed either. Maybe that's what she likes. I dunno! So sure, I think Dazed could have laid a little lower in his Plan A and not gone so overboard. But again, that is a matter of degrees. All in all, he has had the best Plan A of almost every thread I have read on here in 4 years.


We are kinda stupid like that!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I dont think so. His wife would have acted differently. Would have gone about this differently. If your theory here is true, then much of what she has done since court does NOT make sense.


Sure, there is truth in there. All WSs manipulate. That is how they eat cake! But again, I have read her actions and reactions and they all add up to she is very addicted and this guy is manipulating her. Somethign Dazed needs to avoid doing if he wants her to come out of the fog.


I dont disagree!


They both are.


As do I.

In His arms.

I use caps for emphasis.

I do not yell. Not even in real life. When I want emphasis in speaking, I speak very slowly...

and you can't type slowly as there's no way to show that distinction on the internet..lmao!

MM:I dont think so. His wife would have acted differently. Would have gone about this differently. If your theory here is true, then much of what she has done since court does NOT make sense.

Untrue my friend! And I am unable to keep this banter up as I have to take care of home/son issues and can't do this all day.

but back to the Untrue my friend!

Yes...his wife has done things differently.

has it occured to you that MAYBE SHE AND OM have a few plans up their sleeve? After all OM is still actively pursuing an affir with her?

I see her moving home and the pretended reconciliation as WAY TO BUY FOR MORE TIME...to change perceptions legally. To show she is not livng away from home and abandoning her family. She may have been and I'd bet she has been coached by OM and the laywer they hired. He probably told her to go on home...to pretend to be a good wife so she can GET SOME CUSTODY..instead of losing all of it. And he probably told her to get some dirt while at home too...like "does dazed yell? if so record and write it down. does dazed demand? does he make you feel threatened? if so write it down."

Thus by virtue of living under same roof she can present a different "view"...

again, this is something I know...and not learned by choice. I have several friends who went thru this. Their WS had their back up against wall legally speaking. One woman, my friend who got the job and did all she could to "convince" her WH that she was 100 percent meeting his needs...that woman? Her H moved home. Was still entrenched in his affair...but pretending he was trying to end it. What did he do? He documented anytime that his wife could have been perceived as "crazy"...he had even by court time subpoenae'd her medical records to show that BS had been placed on antidepressives...he showed each outburst she made...like "You're going to drive me mad...can't you WS stop lying? This lying is making me crazy!" This kinda banter. He recorded every nuance. He also RECORDED THAT HE READ 2 MARRIAGE RECOVERY BOOKS. And the WS also recorded how long his W was out of home working...and how long BS was gone each day...and how much BS made dinner...cleaned and took care of kids AFTER THE JOB..

all that stuff...IT MADE A DIFFERENCE. She LOST HALF CUSTODY. She lost SPOUSAL SUPPORT. SHE LOST CHILD SUPPORT. And she almost lost her life after it was all said and done.

She almost took her life the DAY AFTER THE DIVORCE.

so yea, ALOT CAN HAPPEN. ALOT IS AT STAKE.

And no, I don't think it is ANY ACCIDENT HIS WW IS AT HOME. I think it is part of a plan. I think it's the OM/WW/Lawyer 's plans...and their only chance in hades to make out decent in court!

MM..you're a military man...think on these terms...

My poor friend. Her eldest son now detests the OW. OW is living in the former family home. Her dd...has become somewhat of a recluse and quit ballet. She was an excellent ballerina.

All kids have lowered their gpa's.

They are so sad, the kids...and their mom? My friend has been practically inconsolable for the last few years. Unlike me, she has not even attempted to date as her clinical depression is still present...she doesn't want to trust.

Her XH is living like a king. She lives in a smaller home. And she lives on a small income now. He was able to twist the minds of a judge...because he had a little more time to do so.

In washington, they call this spin. I call it plain evil. but it happens day in and day out...and why people pay big bucks to be advised by an attorney.

but then does plan B, which would put her in the role of single parent and mother at times for her visitations...(and give her access to the kids alone....she could do what she pleases) really help with that aspect of it?...


plan a (for however much longer dazed chooses to do it), keeps her under the same roof...her interactions and truthfullness to some extent, can be monitored by dazed....this can only be better for the kids ..at this immediate juncture...

I mean, why would you want to give her MORE time with them alone?...if she cannot be counted on to be a good mother?


there is really no need for anyone vs. anyone...tempers and/or emotions should be calmed..if they are in danger of 'heating up'...lol...we do not need YET another thread dissolving or becoming locked...please.


thanks for the 'heads up' regarding the emphasis, peachy...LOL...I was like, WOAH....GAK!!..she really really really wants to get ther point across....lol...I understand much better now....my son knows too that when mom starts speaking slowly.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I do not belive his WW should have the child alone at all.

She is a danger to herself and her child imho.

I think she's warped.

I think that's why if I WERE DAZED: I would call for emergency hearing NOW>..and get custody done...for it will not be done in 10 days from now or could be...I don't know laws in that state. Lost Husband does though.

I would go for an emergency hearing and plan B immediately.

In my state, you can get an emergency custody hearing within 24 hours.

WIth all the turmoil, it is NOT good for WW to have such responsibilities right now. She is just too unstable. It is not about reward/punishment. It is about facts and the behaviors of the WW.

In fact, she really needs help before she's allowed back around her child. She's been emotionally cruel...very very cruel. She has left the child alone with teenage boys and LIED about the xsil being with the child supervising when XSIL was NOT THERE. She has driven recklessly down the street at top speed with the child in the car.

I can agree with these statements. What does that have to do with Plan B? Everyone seems to think that the cure for a bad Plan A or about mishandling Plan A is to go to Plan B. And I am not sure why that is.


Agreed. Not sure why you had to state this.


Agreed. Not sure why you had to state this either.


She executed Plan A and boundaries perfectly She executed Plan B perfectly because it was done the right way and for the right reasons.


All true. My marriage as well may fail. None of this is full proof!


Agreed.


Agreed.


Agreed.


So, why is Steve Harley advising the opposite when he knows what Plan B is? Maybe Steve Harley is as confused as I am about Plan B?!?!


True. I have been there. That aint gonna change anything though. Did the WS not knwo that before the court date?


Again...I did also. So what?


Okay, in your case you went too long. That does not mean that it applies to dazed. SH, his counselor, believes he is doing okay. I have been there...I am a man. It is hard as heck for a man to get custody...and I got custody! And I know dazed will also. he lost nothing in doing this. his case is still just as strong. Actually, more strong! That judge is going to see an even more selfish WW than before. That judge is going to see a man that has tried every attempt to save his marriage, his daughter..and to work with his wife. And all she has done i nthe court's eye is run around. Dazed is just fine legally!


Dont I know. But Dazed's wife is penned in now.


All true! And again, as was said by someone else...SH and his family are experts at this and save marriages everyday. With their principles and their counseling. SH has assessed Dazed's situation and come to the same conclusion as I have. Could Steve be wrong? Sure. Is it likely? Probably not.


I have advised a change also. Just want to make sure that he uses Plan B for what Plan B was designed.


She will get that anyway. She will have visitation. That is a foregone conclusion! Nothign Dazed can do about that! He never could have.


All affairs are!


I had a WW that did the same. I know!


Dont need to. Orchid and I have talked and been friends for years. Believe me, she knows that I know alien speak!!


Agreed.

Again, I think you are confusing me with maybe other posters. I am not a newby, nor am I unaware of MB principles and what happens. Once my wife and I reconciled, I took a break from MB for awhile. But when I came back on last summer, I was appalled at the lack of stickign to MB principles on here.

Look, I am not looking for an argument here. But I do know that what you are proposing that Plan B is...is not what the Harley's say Plan B is. Call Steve. Ask him. Dazed did. And what did Steve say?

In His arms.

Incidentally, I have already had 2 meetings with my attny this year about my xh. His affair wife and he have done some things that I consider not that close, but very close to what dazed's wife has done.

I have had the attorney phone my xh's attorney 2x. He as informed my xh each time that if his behavior does not change, we will be in emergency hearings as quick as you can say "custody change"...and I'd have full custody.

I am not venomous to my xh. I try to help the situation it is now. My son needs to see his mom and his dad. But only if both are being good parents. I am a great mom. He comes ahead of me. Always will. And my xh? He's getting a bit better. But it is rough when his affair marriage is crumbling ...I am determined as a mom to NOT have my son witness this stuff on a magnified scale...much more than it was with me. His stepmom is crude imho, and is only a lady if you think that dressing in designer clothes and driving luxury vehicles and having a country club membership means you're a lady...

MM...then let's ask Orchid her thought? I sent an APB to her earlier. I will give her a call after I take ds back to walgreens to get more fever reducer.

got stuff to do.

I just think that this has gone on too long..and I have seen what a WS can do to buy time ..

and YES A WOMAN CAN LOSE CUSTODY...

I know one man from my divorce recovery WHO GOT FULL CUSTODY B/C HE DOCUMENTED EVERYTHING HIS WW DID...AND SHE WAS EXACTLY LIKE DAZED'S WIFE...AND ORCHID'S H...AND YOUR WW TOO!

It can swing either way.

Trick is...documenting well..and cutting to the chase when action is required legally for something to happen.

Answer: Would it be BEST FOR DAZED'S WIFE TO EVEN HAVE .01 PERCENT OF CUSTODY?

No.

My xh does not yell at my son. he has done really bad things..but he's not belittled my son. He has not driven at top speed with my ds. I will give my tip of the hat to my wayward foggy xh...on the night HE WANTED TO GO OUT AND PARTY THIS LAST SUMMER...he brought MY DS TO ME...b/c he knew he wasn't a good dad.

And I had my ds alot during that time. My ds was not allowed around the affair wife this summer when she was choosing to NOT take my ds to hospital when he had the huge ashtma flare up. My xh came down hard on it...and I kept my son..

At least my fogged out wxh knows when to parent and not to parent. Dazed's? Nah. She's out there. She is just plain abusive. My xh has never and would not leave my ds alone with a would be sexual predator like dazed's wife has.

He's foggy. He's wwayward...he's my xh. But he isn't so bad that I want to take away his custody. Should that happen..

SHOULD HE CHANGE...AND BECOME WORSE...

I WILL BE THE FIRST PERSON WHEN THE COURTHOUSE OPENED THE VERY NEXT MORNING DEMANDING TO BE SEEN BY JUDGE WITH MY ATTORNEYS AT SIDE!

As I am fully versed in alien speak, as well as the tactics of WSs, then yes...I do understand they have a plan. They ALL do! So what? Every affair has a plan. And 98% of them fail.


Even if true...it doesnt matter. The court will see through that. So, if true, nothing will have changed for Dazed except he lost a few weeks.


Again, so what? I know this. So does Dazed. So does SH. So does Dazed's attorney. So what? She is going to look so bad in court that the judge isnt going to even listen to what she has to say! I know...I have been the guy in court and watched his WW try to pull out all sorts of BS (after she had returned home to make herself look good in court). Jusge didnt buy it. Dazed's judge wont buy it either (unless the judge is some leftist lunatic...and if so, then there is nothing Dazed could have done anyway).


And by virtue of her cheating with another man, with her abandoning her husband and daughter to be with said other man...that alone will crush her. Judges are trained to read thru bullshite!


Again, I cant speak to her specific situation. Maybe she got a not job judge. Dont know. Of course, documenting means a lot in court...which is why dazed has been documenting everything. If you document everything, then you can refute what they say. If you have no documentation, then it is your word against theirs. And if they have documentation, then you are sunk! Dazed does not have this problem!


All true. But again, Dazed has lost no ground...and he has really gained ground legally!


Even if true, it wont work. And again, if true...OM wouldnt have gone nuts and been driving up and down the street crazy like all day and night. Her lawyer would have said that is a BAD thing because it will make the judge think twice about letting her have custody because the judge wont want DD around a psycho guy.


I have thought on these terms. Which is why I believe Dazed is just fine. Just as I was...and am. Dazed's legal case is rock solid. Can crap happen? Sure! But crap could have happened before.

As my attorney told me, I handed him the most rock solid case he has ever tried. And that is saying something! My attorney was the guy years ago that got an ex-husband custody of his kid who had been with his mother for years without him around.

For anyone's sake, here is what my attorney said in that famous case: "Her experience, her track record, pretty clearly indicates what kind of parent she's going to be with any other child. It's also very difficult in custody cases to separate lifestyle choices from the example that parent is going to pass along to their children." The link for this case is: http://www.angelfire.com/va2/the2girls/.

Look, I think you really do not know me. I guess others can come on here and speak that I might know a little about this. But as you said above, I dont want to get into this being about me or you. But please understand...I do have this legal thing down to a science. And I do understand MB principles...and believe in them. So far, any advice I have given has not waivered one bit from what Jennifer or Steve have given other posters. I figure that makes me pretty much on the MB gameplan.

In His arms.

These are all good things. I am glad to hear that you have done these things.

In His arms.

Ask her. She knows me! Oh, and I hope your son feels better.


I agree. But guess what? That judge is NOT going to have this girls mother not see her. Even with full custody, Mrs. Dazed gets to see her daughter for visitation. Sure, it might be supervised. Maybe he can get that...and should shoot for that if he can. But make no mistake, she will get to see her daughter and Dazed cannot stop that.


I understand. The best that judge will do is warn her that any further actions like that will warrant her in jail and her to lose visitation. But he isnt going to stop her from seeing her right now.


Agreed. I laid down the law too with my wife when she was gone. Told her under no circumstances will the kids be around the OM. None.


As you should!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

In His arms.

""it's really up to you, Dazed....and what YOU consider a reasonable period of time....

if you are counselling with Dr. Harley, what is HE telling you?...""

Ok. I am getting a bit tired of this.

I know you're a good guy.

And You will know I am a good person too.

Enuff of this.

We have two totally different views.

And we shall choose to hold onto our views.

I choose to respect you and your views and ask you to choose the same.

We shall choose to disagree amicably <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I love when this happens !

.....group hug.....

Thank you kindly..and hope you find your "soul"...which I think is not lost and in fine shape btw! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I need a little soul...I listen to Al Green! lmao.

lmao....

Lou Rawls.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Justpeachy,

No problem! As always, everyone is invited to say what they think and feel.

I only take a punch in the mouth personally!!

In His arms.

by Please Helpsprinkle in some sarcasm for everyone's opinion who disagrees with you....

nasty - just plain nasty - of the attitude that no one else's opinion counts - just yours. We all care about Dazed, Mr. PH - please remember that! And I'd recommend that not all marriages are saved by the same identical road map - and Harley's map changes from time to time.

May I refer you back to the thread which heads this section of Marriage Builders - Everyone's Opinion Counts - and I hope you will play nicely with your fellow betrayed spouses in the sandbox in the future!

By now, I won't embarrass you with other details of your diatribe, except one point, which I hope as a professed Christian you will remember!

If you're going to quote Christian scripture - please speak as a Christian - Love is not RUDE... not self-seeking... keeps no records of wrongs...

Your editorial comments on this scripture, along with other measured invalidations spoken with rudeness, definitely requires a trip back to the Sunday School of the Heart. Please check your pride at the door when coming in as a Christian!

Thank you.

Now back to your regularly scheduled assortment of strong opinions on this topic!

Especially for Dazed:

Please follow the plan that suits you best - with this caviat!

If your wife wins anything but supervised visitation, the OM is going to have access to your daughter. You have police evidence of stalking, which should mitigate the possibility of that happening.

Please protect your daughter, as it's difficult to protect your wife!