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worthatry #1595104 02/19/06 01:14 PM
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** applause**

good for you, WAT...

is it just me or are many threads..really good, legitimate threads posing questions... disintegrating into this sort of 'crap'??

so sorry yours had to go this way too, WAT...


Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1595105 02/19/06 01:16 PM
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Agree WAT, this should have never disinigrated into this nonsense. Unbelievable.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


worthatry #1595106 02/19/06 01:19 PM
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Sheese. Ask a simple question and start a war. I didn't want that.

So stop. I'll not have this crap continue on a post with my name on it.

I'll request the mods to close this thread right now.

WAT

Dude:

Sorry that this spilled over on your thread. Perhaps tensions are still to tight. I'll withdraw from this.

Lem


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1595107 02/19/06 01:26 PM
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MelodyLane
Good morning, and welcome back, by the way. It's good to see you again.
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Did anyone ever argue that the truth shouldn't be delivered in a thoughtful, careful way? I think that goes without saying, doesn't it?

That's what I think the responsibility is for telling the truth. And, if for some reason, you find yourself unable to BE thoughtful or caring then perhaps you shouldn't be the one to deliver the truth to that particular person.

If you deliver the truth in a way that maximizes devastation, maximizes pain, maximizes the chances that a bad end will result then you were probably better off leaving well enough alone. Which is to state that it might be more ethical for you to leave the situation alone if you have some barrier (for whatever reason) within you that keeps you from acting responsibly about it (ie, if you're emotionally overwrought and seeking vengance). Truth for the sake of truth ignoring all attempts at compassion, thoughtful, careful manners can be just as harmful as continuing to live in a deception.

That's what I think of when I hear "do no harm." Now, maybe that's not what other's mean.. but that's my interpretation.

Lemomman

Quote
I don't know why the issue of delivery got even brought into this. It is understtod that the kind of truth revelaing would be done with compassion and humanity. Once again, people get more caught up in the messenger than the message. It is my opinion, that that is an error.

Since I was the one that brought it up, I'll answer that question.

The reason I brought up the manner of delivery is because I believe that to be relevent to the 'responsibility' and the 'responsibleness' of the messenger. One thing I remember from when a friend of mine died, is that the hospital called the new widow (23 years old, H committed suicide, tragic) and wouldn't tell her the news until she went down to the hospital and they all but insisted she not come alone.

When I think of responsibility of telling an important truth that might be devastating to someone else I think of things like: 1.) is my information accurate? 2.) can I do due dilligence to prevent as much collateral harm as possible (ie. having someone come down to a hospital rather than telling them over the phone)? 3.) is there any reason that I might not be able to perform my duties as a messenger in an ethical way (ie. I'm too emotionally involved in the situation and I might mix untruths and simple opinions with truths because of my state.)

If the topic is "What responsibilities do you have when telling someone the truth." then those are the responsibilities I would think someone would have. Are they responsible for bad behaviors after they've done due dilligence? I don't think so. Are there times when, ethically, you can understand that you might not be the person to convey the message. Yes, I think so. Is truth telling always compassionate? No. Sometimes, telling the truth isn't the compassionate thing to do. But, as Melody Lane has often said, those are the exceptions and not the general rule. I think most people should examine their boundaries around those types of situations and make sure that it's truly compassion and not self serving squeamishness that prevents them from doing it. But, yes, occasionally, it can happen.

Mys

myschae #1595108 02/19/06 01:32 PM
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WAT,

I'm terribly sorry. I hope my post to Lemonman wasn't seen as disrespectful - it was an attempt at a lighthearted poke at him because I think it's pretty clear that he really DOES treat truthtelling responsibly.

Mys

myschae #1595109 02/19/06 01:39 PM
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Quote
[

That's what I think the responsibility is for telling the truth. And, if for some reason, you find yourself unable to BE thoughtful or caring then perhaps you shouldn't be the one to deliver the truth to that particular person.

If you deliver the truth in a way that maximizes devastation, maximizes pain, maximizes the chances that a bad end will result then you were probably better off leaving well enough alone.

I don't think that was what Gimble meant at all. Sure, he advocated compassion, but his larger point was an assertion that the victim probably doesn't need to know. And that the messenger bears a responsibility for the gravity of the crime by telling the victim.

Quote
"There is a responsibility that goes along with truth that many people fail to understand.

I was once asked privately if a person should reveal an affair that was over, and that would never be repeated, simply so that person could alleviate himself of the pain of his guilt. I told him no.


To your point, I don't know that the delivery method has that much power over the outcome. Perhaps it does have an impact, but I don't imagine it would be more than minimal. I think everyone here knows and agrees that delivery should be as compassionate as possible. That was never a point a contention and I don't believe was Gimbles' point.

I wouldn't agree, though, that an undesirable delivery method/method supercedes my right and need to know the truth.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #1595110 02/19/06 01:42 PM
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p.s. thanks for the welcome back, myschae. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


worthatry #1595111 02/19/06 01:49 PM
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Closed at the thread starters request.......


JustUss

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