First thank you to those who responded to Eagle 15's post. I have said alot of what you folks have said. It doesn't mean anything when it comes from me, he mut hear from someone trusts/respects/likes etc.

I have supported him and his career in the AF. I told him I was behind him 110% at whatever he wanted to do. I studied my butt off for my test and he was sort of supportive of that. When I didn't make the neext rank, I was very disappointed. I called him to talk and all I said was that if I "had" one more year I would make it. I mentioned that 3 times to him in talking. He took it as that I was abandoning him. He told me that I wasn't sticking to the plan of retiring at a 20 years and a day. I understood that and asked about the plan of him staying 20 and a day, but ended up staying 24 years. I told him that I didn't feel like he was supporting me. Husband says what have I been doing by taking care of the kids/house etc. Noe understand I have done the same thing when he was in the Gulf War area a couple of times. I had a full time job, 2 kids under 3 years old and took care of household duties. I feel that when you are a parent, it's your job to take care of your kids. I put in my paperwork to retire.

As for the rules of the website/books, husband doesn't want me cleaning the house and putting stuff away. He says if he wanted a maid he would hire one, I mentioned that I wanted to stay busy (as the books say) and to contribute to the house since I'm not working. He told me before I got here that I needed to decorate the house so that I would feel comfortable here. Husband says that what books I have read didn't "take" so that I need to read them again and get on the website to read responses from yo folks to get me moving in the right direction. So, here I am on the website and reading, it cuts down on one argument. He has said thank you about this and said your welcome and I'm doing what I'm told to do. I know that wasn't very nice, but it just slipped out.

We didn't spend our 2 hours last night because he was on the website and we went to Walmart. I asked husband to cuddle with me when we got back, he had to check the website and would on about 10 minutes. I put the kids to bed and then went to be bed too. He was going to sleep, but I did snuggle up to him until he rolled over. This morning he still pissed and left with out saying goodbye or a kiss. I called his cell but no answer.

Well, that is enough for now. Have a good day all.

As far as seeing a lawyer, husband said in this state; adultery will allow him whatever he wants. I will loose everything, so I just want to see where I stand here. I can't afford to file paperwork right now. I told huband all of this.

Mrs. E, are you planning on getting a divorce? Why are you seeing a lawyer?

MelodyLane,

As I put in a response that I wanted to see where I stand here in this state. I can't file for divorce due to finances. I want out, but I'm here to see if this works for our kids.

Ewwwwwww Eagle, that's not the right way to look at it.

You can't want out, and be seeing if it works.

Are you still in contact with OP?

You still sound foggy to me.

God Bless,

-Caren

Do you realize how much resentment your threats to divorce are causing? It is not going to work if you make that very destructive threat and go visit lawyers. What is the point of all that if you have decided to "see if it works?"

He can't very well be expected to try and make things work if you are lobbing threats of divorce. That is also extremely upsetting to children to hear that.

Do you see how very destructive this is? And how very contradictory it is to say that you are going to make it work while you are making divorce threats?

Melody - Eagle is amped way up, and doing the same. And he says he has the money, and will see to it that she leaves without the kids. Both of these two need to call a truce.

Yup......they do need to call a truce if that's the case.

You guys are either working it out, or you're not.

There seems to be some question of whether or not you want a divorce.......that in itself is a reason to put all the *D* talk on hold and see if this marriage can be repaired.

Divorce won't solve your issues, they'll still be there....you have to solve them, see if the marriage can be saved, and take it from there.

You guys aren't helping anyone in your current positions.

God Bless,

-Caren

Exactly.

MrsE,

"It doesn't mean anything when it comes from me, he mut hear from someone trusts/respects/likes etc."

Have you been able to read about Lovebusters? I found them to be very important in establishing safe communication with my H. I quoted you above because that was a Disrespectful Judgment (DJ) that I had of my H, also. When I read that, I felt the old resentment and frustration of not feeling heard or respected by my H. Back then, I couldn't see how I was disrespecting him all over the place. I can't control him, but I sure can control me. I got rid of the DJs and stay vigilant to not LB him or myself.

Whether you want to bail on the marriage or see if it works, safe communication is essential. I didn't just DJ my H; I DJ'd my kids, friends, strangers...all over. I'm sure I would have taken them into a next relationship had we divorced.

LA

You want a divorce, and yet you are cuddling up to him at night? You are considering his opinion about your career, and yet you are persuing a divorce? You seem to care about his opinion and you want a divorce? You seem to be respectful of him (obeying his wishes of you not cleaning?) and yet you want a divorce.

I know there are other threads here about you two...but, something is still afoot.

LovingAnyway

I try to talk to him without DJ, he asks me a question and I answer him honestly without LB's. When I'm honest with and direct with him, he tells that I'm using honestly as an LB. When I explain to him that I'm not, he doesn't believe or shuts down. He doesn't listen to what I say because it ahs happened with one of our mutual best friends and Chaplain. I would say something and would be ignored or no response, but friend or Chaplain say the same thing and he would thank them. He's told me that he needs to be told 6 times, he seemed very serious about this.

MelodyLane & Caren

I'm not shouting about a divorce everyday. I'm seeking legal consel to see what rights if any that I have. According to husband this state will skin me alive for an affair. I don't have the funds right not to file. I'm here doing what I can for my kids. The only time that the word divorce comes up is when husband is beating me down and asks me what I want and I tell him know what I want.

Rook

I do want a divorce, but if I don't try to give this an effort then that will be thrown up in my face. I don't want to cuddle,affection or SF; but I have to do somethings that I don't like/want. Husband says that I'm not doing anything or minimal efforts. If I don't ask for his opinion, then I'm not making him a partner. I get beat over the head with alot MB stuff that he thinks applies to me (excerpts that he pulls out, if I point out things then I'm LBing)

Have a good day all!

If you all want more information read the thread from Eagle15 concerning WW reading this website. It's in the question section and it stays pretty current.

You want D you get D, go to the lawyer and file. I give up, you take the kids and house in Athens, I'll take house in FL. I'll take camaro and avalanche, you keep all the rest. You keep your retirement. I'll keep mine! No child support, nothing else. I will move my finances by the end of the week. You wanted it you got! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EA2-

I have somewhat followed both your thread and your H's. Please realize up front that I am NOT judging you or him...I truly don't know either of you well enough to do so.

I have a question or two for you, and am curious as to what your thoughts are on this....

You noted that:

1. What is YOUR opinion on how much you're doing here? What, specifically, do you feel that you've done to truly make attempts to fix things in your marriage before you make the final choice as to whether or not you should end it?

2. Do YOU feel that what you've done up to now is sufficient to have given your marriage a real chance at recovery? Are YOU comfortable that you've done 'all the right things' that you should have done in order to give your marriage a fighting chance at recovery?

3. If you don't feel that you've truly given this your best possible effort to recover...what's your plan to fix that? (if you feel this way...if you don't, this might not apply)

Again, this isn't an attack. I'm really just trying to do two things...one, get a feel for what you have done up to this point, and two, see if YOU feel like you've done your part.

My only suggestion at this point without knowing this information would be that you both should consider a joint counseling session with SH and ask him to specifically help you both define the meanings and intents of all of the various plans and phrases in his plan. Perhaps your H doesn't actually understand what a LB truly is or isn't... or perhaps your definition of a DJ might not be the same as your H's or what we here believe is one.

It sounds to me as though your FIRST steps here need to be to improve how you both communicate with each other...clear meanings and the same understandings of key points being the initial goal. After that, BOTH of you need to learn how to communicate with each other PROPERLY within the framework of the tools provided via MB. THEN you can proceed to working on true R issues...at least that's my take.

Eagle-

You have both been repeatedly advised to remain in your own threads and let each other speak freely in their own thread...and you're back AGAIN taking shots.

THIS is one of the key areas I was referring to above...unless you BOTH begin working on RESPECTING each other's opinions/rights/etc... there isn't any basis for healing to START from.

Bluntly...BOTH of you need to knock off the anger with each other...quit blaming each other, quit taking angry shots at each other...and start LISTENING to each other without angry judgements!!! The ONLY reason my wife and I managed to recover from her affair was because I learned how to listen to what the real issues were without taking them as personal attacks...instead, I simply tried to find ways to solve the problems. Give that some serious thought!

Sorry... 2x4 done now.

I agree with OWL.
My FWH and I both are guests on these boards. I now see why so many advised us not to read each others posts.

Eagle2,
My thoughts and prayers are with you. You seem withdrawn, reserved to the fact that the M is over. If so, then that is what you must do. Just remember, like I wrote on eagles thread, you both will still have to deal with each other, either in R or in D. The kids will still be in the middle. Think about them in the process.
I wish you both PEACE.
JE

Owl

First of all, you are scolding Eagle15 about being on my thread; but on his thread he told him to refer to your response on this one.


You are right that respect is not there. I have mentioned to husband that he doesn't respect and he said you're right I don't. I try to respect him and have told him so, but he said he didn't want my respect that he wanted his old wife back.

I'm trying to do what I can this point. I don't want SF and affection, but I'm giving him SF, showered with him, hold hands, kiss & hug, cuddle & nap with him. If you read the his threads on how he feels about the SF. I'm giving what I can right now, giving in to him to avoid an argument. His emotional needs of SF and affection are 1 & 2, so he gets SF when I can talk myself into it.

Husband wants to know my plan for this not happening again. I told him it won't, I can't go through this again. I'm going to work and back home. I have a cell to contact me at all times. I have no friends or family here to hang out with. So, no shopping trips etc to provide any outside influences.

I believe that we both complain/rant on here for responses, but we do get in arguments. From my point of view he fusses at me about not doing enough for make him feel safe. I remind him what I am doing for him, it's just not fast enough or what he thinks I should be doing.

Husband gave a response to this thread about a divorce. He told me from the start that he doesn't do divorce, he does MB's. I guess my thread/responses pissed him off.

Good day all.

Justempty

Husband has said to me that divorce is horrible and can't be cordial. He says I've been watching too much tv or Oprah. I know divorce is not a good thing I watched him go through his first one (2 years together before his divorce was final), but I'm so tired of feeling beat down and defeated.

I love my kids very much and being around them, but I don't enjoy being with husband.

I am a BS so I come from your H point of view so temper my comments.

I think from reading your thread that you are coming at "trying" from a point of "well if I try and I can convince myself that I did something to try and save the M". All the while already having decided that it is a hopeless cause. This is not trying. You can only truly being accused of trying if you "choose" to believe and concede nothing. I have no beliefs that this M can be saved, but I also have no beliefs or preconceved notions that it can't be saved. Only employing this type of belief system are you really trying. Otherwise you are going through a range of motions to satisfy your guilt and or to humor your husband in hopes that it will prove to him or wear him down (which it has worked) to the point that he will no longer want to be with you.

Think hard about what I said above and see it is applies to your efforts to date.

EA2-

I referred to him looking at my response to his post here...I wanted to ensure that he saw what I had to say. Nothing more, nor did I think that it would confuse the issue.

As a BS, perhaps I can shed a little light on what your H is looking for in a "plan".

I felt horribly insecure in our marriage after my wife's EA...rightfully so. It was clear that our marriage was in deadly danger, and that she was willing to go outside of the marriage to satisfy her own needs regardless of the impacts to myself and our kids...in much the same fashion that happened in your case.

And I too wanted a 'plan'. Not just knowing that she didn't have the 'opportunity'...but that she had learned from what happened and was applying what she'd learned to keep it from happening again. In our case, her EA began via internet and went to phone...and when I 'caught' the IM's between them indicating their love and future plans, she was all set and willing to go live with him...even though they hadn't met.

So..back to the 'plan'. When we first started to deal with this, she was in almost the exact same state that you are now. She was also in withdrawl over the end of the A, which I'm not sure how much of that you've dealt with. But, she was angry at our entire family for 'ruining her chance to be with the love of her life'. Lashing out at me at every chance...it was horrible.

I managed to keep my temper, keep from DJ'ing and LB'ing pretty well, even though I'd never even heard of this site. Instead, I made myself see past what I was feeling to what SHE was feeling. She was devestated by the loss of 'what might have been'. She was scared, ashamed, angry, embarassed. She had no desire to truly look at what she'd done to our family...instead, she wanted to blame US for everything. She was still living in that 're-written marital history' that you'll see some of us talking about...she'd convinced herself that she'd NEVER been happy in our 17+ year marriage. (Pure hogwash...we knew she'd not been happy for about that last year...and had fought tooth and nail to help, but to no avail). Instead of taking all of this personally, I worked to help her deal with her own emotions first...let her deal with her withdrawl, helped her to see that there was nothing to be embarassed about. Showed her that while she may feel ashamed, she was still loved and cared for. Not just by me, but by our families, friends, etc...

But...she still kept talking divorce and seperation. Finally, she realized that if she did that, she would lose me in any capacity, forever.

We began to reconcile. But I still needed a plan...how would we keep from having this happen again? Unless you've been through it, it's impossible to describe the sheer emotional devestation that being a BS is. To put it into perspective, I'll simply say that I've been diagnosed for PTSD twice in my life...the first time was post-combat. The second was this...and it was FAR harder to deal with than the first.

So...that plan. How would she show me that this wouldn't happen again? Sure, she could quit playing the online games that would have let her resume contact with OM. But, she was still occasionally IM'ing him. She DID agree to counseling...but refused to apply or use any of it since she didn't like the counselor (our first MC was actually completely correct in what she was saying...but had no tact and quite honestly didn't know how to 'sell the plan' to my wife). But, we started seeing my IC for our MC...and started that plan.

She HATED that I wanted to check her email...as a matter of fact, it was that fact that finally led to the real NC between them...because she knew I was 'looking'. But a few days later, she told our MC that she now understood why I wanted to check her email...it wasn't that I truly had expected to find anything...but it was the only way I could SEE that she was doing her part with NC.

She started the EA because she didn't understand what was wrong in discussing our problems with opposite sex friends...she didn't realize that listening to THEIR problems would lead to her eventual interest in them. She didn't understand emotional boundaries. But once she did, she began implementing them. If someone started talking on a subject that became too personal, she now would put a halt to it rather than let it go on.

She began to take steps to keep herself from being attracted to others...in other words, she began taking steps to keep it from happening again. She sat down with me and our MC, and learned what it was that led up to her having her affair...and how to avoid those things. A PLAN.

My feeling that it's THIS kind of thing that Eagle is looking for from you.

I'd also guess that he's looking for you to quit threatening or considering divorce...at least for now. Instead, simply find ways to make your life together more enjoyable for BOTH of you.

My wife and I didn't do a lot of R talking outside of the MC office for the first several months. We'd do our homework...but we wouldn't let ourselves DWELL on what happened. We wouldn't dwell on the problems...we'd dwell on the good stuff...and save our problems for when we had a nuetral third party to help us deal with them...our weekly MC.

So...as a suggestion for you in this case, I'd suggest that you simply stop with worrying about a D. Sit down, and honestly think about what WOULD make you happier in your current marriage. Think about the good things you shared in your marriage...what made you happy before? There WERE things, or you wouldn't have made it this far. Start renewing those things...and start small at first. Walks, talking...NOT about the A or R. Find a hobby to share with your H...and when you share it, don't let the A or R intrude on it. Become FRIENDS again first...then later on you can work on the marriage in more depth. And realize that neither of you have to make any final choices today or tomorrow...you've got your whole life to make a choice.

Hope this helps you get some perspective.