Thanks, I'll try those things.

As far as children go, she wants to be here sometimes when they are here so we don't have to tell them there is a problem.

They need to be told there is a problem with an affair. Don't lie to your children to protect her, terps. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies.

I would make her come up with her own money to finance her little escape. Don't help her destroy your family by financing it and hiding her secret for her.

Dr, Harley wrote this letter recently to one of our members:

2334pem: While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Terp:

You have some good experienced people on your thread and they all come at this board from a different perspective. Knowledge is power and you need to learn what you are up against. Accept this situation as the devil himself trying to destroy your life as you know it and learn to never let your guard down.

WS's lie. Our most treasured and trusted women of our dreams and the mothers of our beautiful children betray us and lie to us. So many times, it is an accidental happening, but it still happens. It evolves from a smile to a conversation to a kiss, to the real deal, etc, but it does not mean it is over.

It is hard to explain but you must learn to not trust the woman you love during her fog state. Things are different now and your world as you know it has changed. When things the darkest, the best can rise from pain and suffering but you have a lot of painful work to do. One day at a time. Do not follow your heart, follow Dr. Harley and these experinced posters and you will have a chance to regain your position in your marriage. I am truely sorry for the work you are facing. It is painful but possible. One day at a time. Ok, now that you know the issues, throw your pride out the window and let's move forward and beat the demon. \

TooSoon

My WH said he needed to move out because he "felt pressured to work on the M" and he needed time to "focus on [his] own recovery". Did not seem to matter how well we were doing. And, the bar kept changing, he would complain about something, and I would improve in that area, and then there would be a new complaint, until it got to the point he was complainng about my thoughts.

He seemed to be being pulled out of the M. So, after I recovered a bit from the separation, I was not in the least surprised to discover him at OW's. But, according to him, he did not contact her until after he moved out (but, cell records show a ton of calls between them for someone he had just recontacted---4 in one day) and they are "just friends" (last time they were only "friends", it was actually a PA), but he is willing to destroy our M and his kids (they have not handled any of this well at all), so he can still be "friends" with her. Of course, I do not buy that he has not been having an affair with her prior to moving out, or that they are "just friends". He seems to think I am naive enough to buy his story. Where is the BS icon when you need it?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So, I would say based on what you are saying, she is in contact. Do what you need to find out the truth because she will continue to lie about it, unless faced with evidence. And, even then, she may still lie. Sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all your input. Suzet*, what do you think?

Other than threatening to end the marriage, I don't know what else to do to keep her from moving out. I guess I could go to plan B if she moves out.

Terps,

Melody Lane has given you brilliant advice. Seriously. Expose her affair as widely as possible. Children, friends, relatives, OP's W etc. It's a war and "fair tactics" don't cut it.

I can personally vouch for the fact that I am happily married today because I had the balls to expose my wife as widely as I am suggesting you do right now. Her 3 month soul mate love of her life was no where near as attractive 4 days after exposure.

If you want to be married, expose her. Simple.

What if not exposing the affair at this time is the only thing keeping her from leaving? I think this may be the only thing that is keeping her home. Also, wouldn't this be a bigtime LB? She knows I will tell everyone if she moves out.

I know you all are giving me good advice. I am listening closely. I've learned my lesson on this. I might not be in this situation if I listened to other people before. But you know how it is when you're smarter than everyone else.

Dude--

The advice you've received in this thread is accurate.

All signs point to her continuation in the affair.

If you haven't already, you need to:

1. Contact the OM's wife and see if they are going through similar circumstances. Regardless, she needs to know that your wife is out there and available to her husband so she needs to step up her monitoring.

2. Explain to your WW that you have no intention of funding her time away from the house as the money you make is for the maintenance and care for the family and household. If she moves out, she is not a part of that.

3. Expose. This is the mistake I made in my WW two affairs -- I kept it quiet and between a few trusted individuals. I thought that by showing concern for her feelings and reputation, she'd appreciate it more. No way -- it gave her room to wiggle and worm he way into other contacts with the OM. She needs to know that the people she sees (friends, family, etc) know and are going to help you hold her accountable.

4. Monitor. Phone calls, car conversations, etc. Not too expensive really. If you can get a GPS unit (not a real-time unit, but a retrieve and download type), you'll know if she went near his town or what her usual haunts are if she moves out.

She's not thinking straight. Perhaps you could discuss some comfortable boundaries in your relationship as you rebuild it that could give her some "space" but keep her in your home. Be reasonable about the boundaries -- don't let her mandate them -- you still need to be able to hold her accountable.

Good luck, man. It's a steep climb out of the pit.

She will be furious with you. She will rant and rave and tell you that you are through for sure now. She will say that until you did that, she was going to stay and work on marriage. She may even in fact leave. But if you don't expose, I can give you 100% guarantee you are stuffed.

On the other hand, if you expose, after she settles down, she will still be there and you just might have a chance to save your marriage.

There are people on this site who lament not exposing their WS's they are divorcing today. But there are very, very few who will say exposure ended their marriage.

Part of Plan A is exposure. Exposure will p**ss her off but it isn't a LB. Melody Lane has already told you what Dr Harley says about exposure.

You might be smarter than me - but I am still married to a wife that loves me. That's the prize in the end.

I'd take dumb and have my wife love me any day. I'm going to follow your advice. Thanks for your help.

Exposure was the number 1 tool that saved my marriage. I stairstepped exposure and I used it as a tool to get her to stop seeing her lover. I would expose, then tell her. When she didn't stop the affair, i would expose to more people and then tell her. I held back from the people that meant the most to her. She stopped the affair before I had to tell them.

Exposure is your best friend and yes, she will hate you but today, she does anyway to justify her relationship with the other man. Don't be afraid.

TooSoon

Yeah I see where the exposure will be a big help. Your right about her hating me to justify the relationship. To use her words "emotionally detached".

Buy as many infidelity books as you can read. Dr. Harley and many others have spent a life time studying infidelity and they all say the same thing about WS's. They are very predicable people.

WS's, deep in the fog, change the histroy of your marriage, they totally blame the BS, they have a self rightiouness to them, they turn their back on their family including their own children, they change their own moral beliefs to allign it with their new infidelity lifestyle and they they will look you in your eyes and lie through their teeth. All of this is done to allow themselves to have an affair with the new man or woman of their dreams.

Accept your share of the blame for assiting in the breakdown of your marriage and make the needed changes as a spouse that aggrivated your wife prior to the affair. Another words, do a good Plan A and act and be a better man for her to openly see. When her affair is over, you want her to come back to you. Keep us posted.

TooSoon

terp, you have been given some excellent advice here. Following it is your best chance at saving your family.

Your natural instinct is to BELIEVE your WW but take it from those who have been through it...they LIE, LIE and LIE even if the proof is right in front of them. So don't try to rationalize this, instead read and understand what you are dealing with and learn how to fight it.

I'm sorry you are here but these fine people can help you...if you let them.

good luck and stay strong

Too soon,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I am going to use the stairstep approach to tell other people about the affair. If she leaves she knows I will tell everyone. Hopefully, this will keep her home until the fog clears and I can show her how much I love her.

Terpsfan, I agree with the others that your W might still be in contact with the OM. At least through e-mail, Internet and/or phone.

And if your W is not in contact with OM (which I highly doubt) then she's in great danger of contacting him as soon as she moves out of the house. She is still in a fog and can't be trusted at this stage. You should do all you can to prevent her from moving out and you should do all you can to get proof of continued contact.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Take care,
Suzet

Exposure is not a LB, it's one of the tools to help stop the A and save the M. However, I think you should first determine if the A is still going on and only expose if you're 100% sure your W is still in contact with OM. That's why it is so important to do everything you can to get prove of continuous contact. I think it will not be a good idea to expose without 100% certainty and proof.