Thank you for clarifying this! It means alot to me.

ML - Thanks for posting the article...I'll read it later and get back with my comments/questions...

I can see why it would bother you and not your H, 2bNormal. Because it is you who did the damage, you rightfully feel obliged to do the right thing and make amends to her. You are the one who is responsible, not him. No one but YOU has to live with your conscience. Your H doesn't have to live with your conscience, YOU DO.

And the OM didn't want to "disrupt his life?" Are you kidding me? Did he not think that having an affair might be somewhat disruptive to a marriage? sheesh... What he really mean is he didn't want to face the consequences of his own actions. By keeping it a secret he can continue to have affairs and possibly bring home STDs. If his W knew he was a cheater, she could take steps to protect herself from him.

Yeah...he was a real "work of art"...makes me gag when I think back to his words! He wanted NO consequences to his actions that's for sure. He could care less about what he did to his wife.

This is another reason why I am such an advocate of exposure; it makes it harder for creeps like that to hurt people. What is the old saying? Evil thrives when good men stand silent?

It sure is true in the case of affairs!

ML -
I read through the article you posted and it was one I have read before. I just can't find in there where Harley says to expose to the OP's spouse. The whole article seems to be about ending the affair and telling your own spouse.

Maybe this isn't the right article? I don't know why I'm having such a hard time finding his statement on exposing to the OP's spouse - even if time has passed. I do believe you that he said this on that radio show, but I would like to see it in writing so I can show my husband at a later date.

Thanks for your help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2BNormal, that is the right article. It outlines his principles on informing the BS and exposure regardless of who does the exposing. The principle doesn't change just because it is not YOUR BS, he just happens to be speaking to the WS. He doesn't have an article per se' on every imaginable scenario and timeline, just a general principle that is clearly outlined in that article.

However, he was asked about your type of situation SPECIFICALLY on 2-16-06 on the radio and affirmed that principle EXACTLY. [a BS had informed the OTHER BS four years after the affair had ended]

Here is cc46's post on this:


Thread here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2942830

I did get what he said about exposure and informing the BS in the article. I just didn't understand that it applied to the OP's BS as well. I have never read his book. My husband and I actually read the book Torn Assunder and it may very well have the same information. I'll have to pull it out again.

Thanks for posting the other thread. That's very interesting to know.

I'm going to have to pray about how I should bring this up to my husband and how to actually tell the OM's W. This is a scary thing to even think about doing after this much time has passed. Their phone # is unlisted, but I still have it stored away "in case" it was ever needed for ANY reason such as this. Hopefully they haven't changed their #, otherwise, I would have no way of contacting her.

Also, was it hard to get a chance to speak with Dr. Harley when you called into the radio program? Maybe I should try that?

You are a good person, 2Bnormal, with a good heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I found it very easy to get in to speak to Dr. Harley and was the first caller on his show yesterday. I only waited a couple of minutes. However, I know someone who called at the top of the 3rd hour and they couldn't get her in. I think the trick is to call right at 3:00 when they go on.

They also give every caller a free book, which I thought was very nice!

Thank you Mel! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Good info for me! I'll have to try to listen a few times to the show and then see if I can call in sometime. I didn't even know about this radio program until today!

I wish Bob would post what his thoughts on what you should do about telling BW after years have passed

In my case that would be an academic opinion with too many variables to make any sensible generalisation.

If years have passed with many NC violations or real threats thereof then YES I'd expose after years.

If my quality of life was in any way impacted negatively by OP and exposure could help prevent it I would expose after years also.

But if recovery had progressed well, and transparent NC had held in place I would see that it may cause pain in both families that does not advance our situations so I probably wouldn;t do it.

Through ALL this I have a moral dilemma that I feel it is the RIGHT of the OP BS to know their S had an affair, and my OBLIGATION to tell them.

So I am just thankful God gave me sand and sense to expose in the heat of battle. It was RIGHT and correct for all parties.

Dear members,

Since this topic has been raised (about exposure to the OP’s spouse after the A has ended), I would like to get opinions on this post I’ve posted on this thread yesterday… I would like to receive opinions on whether posters think:

1. Exposure to the XOM’s W was necessary in my specific situation or not?
2. If me and H did the wrong thing by not exposing to the OW?
3. Did we receive the wrong advice from my counselor regarding this?

As I’ve said yesterday, I still don’t feel 100% convinced that my situation didn’t justify telling XOM’s W (as suggested by my H and counselor) but at the same time I can understand their reasons for this. I’m in doubt and therefore I would appreciate opinions from MB members on this matter.

Before responding, please read my post first (the link above) to get the full background on my situation; the reasons why we never exposed to XOM's W and why this issue is still bothering me.

Please be honest with your opinions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks in advance,
Suzet

Suzet - frankly, if XOM tried to contact you 2 weeks ago, you should expose. End of story.

I don't know that I as dogmatic as some that exposure, years after is productive, but definitely I think exposure should have been done at the time of the affair. If the contact is ongoing it should be done regardless of the time since d-day.

In your specific case, you should have exposed originally, and yes - I think you received bad advice. A lot of councellors seem to advise against even telling your own spouse. They are all wrong in my opinion.

Bigkahuna, thanks for your response.

What I find strange is that XOM’s attempts to contact me are usually very sporadic and out of the blue. Usually a period of 6 - 9 months (or longer) will go by before he will try and contact me (usually by sending an e-mail, phone on my birthday or come by my desk to speak to someone) and then he will keep quite again for months. This has follows the same pattern for a long time now. I always handle the contact with an attitude of indifference e.g. professional friendliness but distant and to the point. I think this is the reason why he usually stops contact and then leaves me alone for a long period of time before he attempts to contact me again...SIGH...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Initially after I’ve send the 2nd NC letter during March 2004, he has left me alone for almost a year before he attempted contact again. The 1st NC letter was send 6 months before the 2nd one.

Of course I always inform my H about any attempts of contact from his side.

Hi Suzet.
You have struggled with these INTENSE FEELINGS you have for this man at work for nearly 2 years. (I guess it is true that our hearts have a mind of their own because I know you wish these feelings would JUST GO AWAY.)

When I read what you wrote yesterday, I knew you were NOT over these feelings for OM because you wrote in the PRESENT TENSE not in the PAST TENSE:

"Although I’ve become emotionally very attached and attracted to OM and have gone through intense withdrawal for many months, I don’t know if OM experienced the same level of emotional attachment and inappropriate feelings towards me."

You also said that there were NEVER any written or verbal words between you and him that would be considered inappropriate, is that right?

"The betrayal was mostly in my thoughts and feelings and the EA never reached the stage where we exchanged verbal, written and/or physical expressions of love towards each; discussed our spouses/marriages; had secret meetings and exchange gifts etc."

Since you and OM work in the same office building, it seems a little contact would be inevitable. It also seems from what you describe, that he is just a friendly guy. (I read once you said he sent email birthday cards to many or all the employees there, is that right?)

Suzete, I am just afraid if you call his wife, she will say something like "Yes, he has told me about this pretty girl at work that seems to have a crush and a bit of an obsession for him." What really could you say to her since he hasn't done anything out of line?

Was it ever recommended for you to try to get a job elsewhere since seeing him around is so hard on you emotionally?

You are just such a nice person, Suzete. You are so very
helpful here at Marriage Builder's to those of us in early
withdrawal. I hope you can soon get past this struggle you are having.

God Bless You.

Suzet -
Your situation is a little different from mine in that this man is still around and has contacted you, and that it never was a full blown affair or EA. Are these contacts by email, phone, etc. by this man any different from when you felt you were "almost an EA"? Do they make you feel that he is "trying" to start something, or do you feel he is just being professional "friendly"?

I still have questions regarding my situation. I've thought about it some more, and I'm still wondering if calling this OM's wife is the best way to handle it. If you would rather me take that to another thread instead of taking away from your questions, I will. Just let me know.

ItWon’tRainAlways, thanks for your response.

I need to apologize! English is not my first language and sometimes I write in the wrong tense, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> so I just want to make it clear that I meant to talk in the PAST tense and not the present tense yesterday. Therefore I WAS emotionally attached and attracted to OM – not anymore, although I’m aware there is a chance that feelings might get rekindled and that’s the exact reason why I’m so careful and will not allow myself to have regular contact with OM or become friends with him again. I want to protect my H and M against the possibility that such feelings might get rekindled again. It took me a long time to get through withdrawal and “get over” XOM and I never want to put myself and my M through such anguish again.

There were inappropriate exchanges between me and OM e.g. subtle flirting/joking on e-mail & me sending holiday photos of myself to OM on his continuous requests (e-mail). But we did not exchange expressions of love towards each other. However, after D-day I said to OM that I became emotionally too attached to him and could therefore not have contact with him anymore. During the friendship he did sometimes said things which suggested to me that he started feeling more than friendship towards me, but the messages were always subtle and I don’t know for sure. For example, during a time I felt very depressed because of a personal struggle in my life, he said he wish he could give me a hug but was afraid of doing so out of fear that he will like me to much.

We work in two separate buildings therefore we don’t bump into each other very often (the last time we accidentally bump into each other was more than 6 months ago but he did came past my desk before the December holidays to wish me well). Yes, overall he is a friendly guy who send birthday cards to some of his colleagues (as far as I know).

I understand what you’re saying and I guess this is part of the reason my counselor and H suggested to not expose to his W and why I am also in doubt about this… If I would call his W all I could really say is: “I was friends with your H and developed a ‘crush’ on him. The friendship became inappropriate when we started flirting and sharing photo’s on e-mail. But don’t worry, nothing else happened” Sounds a bit odd, doesn’t it? Also, it will be very easy for OM to spin the story around to let himself appear “innocent”.

Yes, it was recommended but I was never successful in finding another job. My H is unemployed for 2 years no because of victimization and unfair dismissal and so far he wasn’t successful in finding another job either. The contact WAS emotionally hard on me for a very long time, but not anymore. At this point I only experience it as a frustration and I experience light anxiety when I see him or when he try to contact me (which I think is normal).

Thanks ItWon’tRainAlways. I just want to make it clear again that I don’t really experience this as a “struggle” anymore. I have moved on from it and I’m doing fine. But thanks for your concern and kind words! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2BNoramal - yes, it is different. When he contacts me he doesn’t ask personal/inappropriate questions or try to flirt with me. But I still don’t feel comfortable with the contact though and is very much ‘on guard’.

He just appears being friendly and interested (like he would with any other staff member), although I do get the ‘feeling’ that he is trying to resume a friendship with me again - which I will not allow. He usually talk about his studies and will ask about my H’s court case etc. – general stuff.

No, it is not necessary. You can stay on this thread! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suzet, You are in a tough position to have to work with this guy. By what you said above, I would say that he is "trying" in a subtle way to resume a friendship at "some level". If you have these "vibes", they are most likely right on. Before the 2nd OM & I in my situation turned to an online affair, there were certain "vibes" and subtle words/expressions that I always questioned in my head about what he really meant. AFTER, it turned to an EA, I questioned him on those very comments and I was right on with my thinking.

It would be tough to expose to this man's wife given that nothing went on further than what you mentioned, however, IF he keeps contacting you against your specific request, something NEEDS to be done. I'm just not sure what? Has your husband ever talked to this man and request to him that he NOT contact you at all?

Thank you for allowing me to continue my questions on this thread...I have to come back later with more of my questions about my own situation.

I have some further questions on my situation, but wanted to first a little more background for the purposes of understanding if I should still seek to let the OM's W of the affair.

This OM contacted me in July 2003 and in Oct. 2003 he came to see me for 3 days....Oct. 8-10, 2003. After he went home (1100 miles away), my H discovered something was up and I confessed to him that very weekend of this OM and what happened. On that very Monday, I told the OM that my H knew and that we could never speak again. It was that Monday when the OM said the words "Just let me have my W"...meaning I want no consequences for what I just did.

At that end of that week, we resumed contact. We kept in contact through email/phone/IM until August 2004. That is when I told this man that I do not want to communicate with him again.

From Jan. 2004, during the time I was communicating with this 1st OM, I sought the help of another man on a Christian forum and he was the one that helped me to move past this 1st OM.

Sept. 2004, this 2nd man became the 2nd OM. We had an online affair from Sept - Dec. 2004.

During this entire time from Oct. 2003 - Dec. 2004, my H did not know I had further communicated with the first OM and also became involved with a 2nd OM.

When the online affair with the 2nd OM ended, I confesed EVERYTHING to my H. I confessed the further communication with the 1st OM and what happened with the 2nd OM. Also this 1st OM did contact me again on Christmas 2004 (after I told him I wanted NC). I told my husband of this as well.

When all of this was out in the open, I was in withdrawals from OM2. I never gave any thought to OM1 or even exposing to OM1's W. In my messed up mind at that time, I considered OM1 HISTORY. OM2's W knew of our online affair, so that was never an issue to expose to her.

From January 2005 till now, I have been dealing with issues related to OM#2. It's ONLY now that I thought of exposing to the first OM's W and IF I should. I know morally YES I should. But, IF it's me calling their house I risk the OM answering the phone. Or possibly NO ONE anwering the phone because I would block my caller ID as I would not want a return call from his wife.

This is where I am and I find it all so confusing at this point about exposing to this first OM's W. If I could do it by letter, would that be a better way to expose to her?
Honestly, I don't even remember what city they live in and it would require some research to find their address since their phone number is unlisted.

This is obviously a short version of what happened over the time period of July 2003 through the present, but I thought it might help those that have experienced similar or have advice.

I really do want to do what is right, but I am still concerned about contacting this woman and risking the OM answering the phone.

My questions are:
1. Is it still necessary to expose the affair to this OM's W, not knowing at this time IF he has even told her himself. I don't even know if they are still married or what their status is. I have not heard from this man in over a year. He is NO threat to my marriage.

2. IF it is highly recommended I do expose, HOW do I go about this? Is a phone call recommended? Or if it is possible for me to obtain their address, is a written letter sufficient?

2BNormal, I do think you should expose to the OMW, for the reasons I gave you above. But there is another reason I would like you to consider. Part of forgiving oneself and becoming whole again involves making amends to those we have harmed.

From a personal standpoint, when I have harmed others in my past, I was diminished as a human being. But I was restored by the MANNER I handled the wrongdoing. That is because good character comes NOT from being perfect [none of us are!] but in how we handle our imperfections.

When I truly made amends for my wrongdoing was when I felt restored and was able to forgive myself. Making amends removed the spot on my heart and conscience. It made me feel like a decent member of the human race again.

I would recommend a phone call, only for the reason that OM could intercept mail. You might have to call a couple of times to get through to her, though.