Dazed,

I am sooooo happy for the progress your marriage has made. Recovery is going to be a long bumpy ride but I know that you will do great because of all the strength you have gained through Plan A.

As far as the RO goes... I would go with your wife and file together for this creep to stay away from you, your wife, your property, your wonderful DD, and your places of work. I would also get the one with "teeth" so he has some serious problem if he violates the RO. I would also do this ASAP.

God bless you and the new marriage you and your beloved will make together.

Loni

We're back from Jamaica and an unintended, but volunteered for and compensated "bumped" layover for a night in Atlanta...thank you Delta ($1,200 in travel vouchers).

I called your cell phone this afternoon and left a message.

Glad she dropped the divorce. Protect her from OM before he assumes some fallback position and the waffling continues. Get him arrested for fear of committing suicide. Barricade your wife in the house. Go to her bosses and get them to go along with a leave or just quit. She needs a few weeks of withdrawal before she can come even near the flames. She needs to detox. Maybe send her to a relative far away. You don't necessarily need to be together right now as you really can't reconnect with her anyway till after the fog has cleared. Maybe JustPeachy has a spare room she can hole herself up in ---> LOL (no disrespect intended).

Don't contact him and personalize this confrontation at all. This dispute is between him and HIS delusions.

Mr. Wondering

Mr.W-
I hope you two had a great time together in Jamaica.
Contacting you two with my marriage problems after your vacation seems wrong of me to be doing.

Again I need help. Our weekend together was great. When she went to work he jumped all over her again. He completely disrespected her letter. We talked Monday about no contact with him and how important it is. She told me about the first couple of times he contacted her but know she is backing up again.
Last night she wouldn't even talk to me. She was basically tring to ignore me even when i was talking to her.
This morning she told me that she feels she made a huge mistake and asked me what she was thinking over the week end. She told me she just don't understand why she thought he was so bad and why she decided to even stay with me.

For a few nights she even wanted to sleep in our room together. Last night she stayed int he guest room.

I have been telling her about withdraw and mixed feelings are normal but will pass as long as there is no contact.

She tells me that she thinks she is horrible and crazy and don't know how to make sense of her feelings.

I want her to talk to someone that can help her understand. Knowing she has been in contact with Mrs.W I was thinking that it might do some good for the two of them to talk again.
I am also going to try to get an appointment with Jennifer for both me and the wife.
I want to give her some space and time alone but that damn OM will not go away.
HELP...

Dazed-

So once again she managed to get the whole D proceedings cancelled by coming to you saying she was ready to work things out, and then turned around and went right back to what she'd been doing the whole time?

Honestly, it sounds to me like she's a lot more cunning than I would have thought...this sounds planned out to me. You know the saying..."Boo me once, shame on you...boo me twice shame on ME".

I'm beginning to think that this is all continued cake-eating. I think she's doing everything she can to maintain status quo. I would suggest that you talk with SH again and get his take on your next steps.

I don't think she is cunning at all. She is that confused that she can be spun in any direction very easily.

Its pretty evident that he's working his guilt trip on her again.

Didn't you mention a trip that a sister-in-law wanted to take her on? Set up counselling with Jennifer then switch cell phones with her, so you are the only one able to reach her and put her on the next plane out of here.

Dazed, Read this email back to your wife and ask her if she wants to spend the rest of her life with someone who cannot stand on his own two feet. What could he possible offer her under those circumstances? It is needy manipulation at best. Gently point out that this is all about him. He is not offering her anything but a stranglehold. Remind her that suicide threats are "normal" for OM but rarely followed through on. If she continues to be concerned, act concerned too and tell her "You are right. He might hurt himself. Let's go and have him committed." - whatever. Also ask her why it was okay to walk out on you and hurt you her **husband** but not okay to hurt the guy who knew what he was getting in to?

Dazed, can't you take out a restraining order for the both of you? Call the police and talk to them.

Also, now that the divorce petition has been dropped, watch your finances. She can clear you out and you would be screwed, since you are both "married". Maybe you should beat her to the punch and withdraw all assets and hide them until your sitch is under control. You would probably be responsible for half of her debt now as well.

I'm rooting for you. Hang in there and good luck. The OM is in a downward spiral. Let's hope he crashes and burns soon. Maybe if you rent Fatal Attraction with Michael Douglas and Glenn Close and watch it with your wife it will wake her up a bit. I'm not offering advice but I sure as heck would want to have a few "words" with OM. I would like to call Joey Bag o' Donuts into town to have a discreet conversation with this bassturd about the current state of his knees. This "OM" is a schoolyard bully and deserves whatever he gets, by his hands or someone elses.

This is EXACTLY right!

In His arms.

I see your point...and might agree to it, but when I look at the timing of WHEN she's done this...it's everytime she's been on the brink of making a major choice.

And when she's done so, she chooses her marriage...just long enough for Dazed to 'fix' the situation so that she's no longer facing the loss of him and his support. She'll agree to anything she needs to in order to get him to do so...and reneges IMMEDIATELY once he's done so.

I could be wrong, and I won't say more about it. But like I said...after all of this time, to me it starts to seem more intentional.

Lexxxy,

You can help me with this, as you will know if what I am going to say will actually apply to his WW. Here goes...

Dazed, your wife is on the fence but leaning toward you. The two of you (you and OM) are tugging on her hard from both sides. It is driving her crazy and she cannot figure out what to do.

We know how the OM is tugging, thru his threats and manipulation. But you educating her is also being perceived by her as manipulation.

My suggestion??? Dont educate her right now!! This is a time for action, Dazed. Your wife is SCREAMING out that she needs you to help her. So do so.

How? First, dont talk about it...you go down to that courthouse and get that order. You dont need her with you, you dont need her permission. Dazed, your wife is under attack from a very evil man. Protect her. She is weak right now...you are going to have to make the decisions here. Get that order TODAY!!!

Just that alone will begin to give your wife cover for her to scurry away from OM and hide from him.

Next, this is not a Plan B action...so dotn take this next thing I tell you as such. But you are gonna have to take charge. Not in a manipulative or abusive way. But in a loving but stern way. And here's what you do...

After getting that orde, you sit your wife down tonight and tell her that you know what she wants. And you know that she is hurting and cant find a way out on her own. So, you are going to help her.

Then you tell her you got the order and that you are prepared to help shut down all other areas of communications with him. That the cell phone will be shipped back to him today (have a box there with his address on it), and that she is going to take a leave of absence from work and the two of you are leaving town this weekend for two weeks in order to take a break and let things settle down.

And then dont say another word. Dont discuss it with her, dont negotiate it. These are statements of fact.

She might get angry with you and say things like "I'm not doing that..." Your response? "Honey, the time has come to make a decision. You said what you wanted this past weekend. Thus we must move forward and protect you and this family. Nothing else is more important. We have to do this now."

Notice I said nothing about the OM directly. It is time to stop discussing him...mentioning his name. You are trying to take this lady and point her in the direction of the future. Time to not let her keep looking at the past.

Now, I'd like to hear what Lexxxy has to say about this. Dont do this in a way that LBs. This isnt even Plan B. This is you taking charge. Thus, you have to go get that order...that will show her that you are serious about protecting her...and then you have to lay out the steps she must do now.

She is an addict. If she had a cocaine addiction and had said last weekend "Dazed help me. I want to stop doing cocaine"...you would do whatever it takes, right? So, when she is withdrawing and starts wanting her coke because the dealer keeps calling and pressuring her, what would you do? You would protect her. You would call the police on the dealer, you would take your wife away from the situation and get her some help.

This is no different Dazed.

As I said, you have done an amazing Plan A. And your wife WILL come home...I have no doubt of that now. But this pain is going to continue unless you step in now...when she is practically asking you to...and be the hero.

In His arms.

MORTARMAN-LEXXXY
Here is an email she just sent me....
What do I do with this... I know it's wrong but I want to go find that guy something bad right now....
___________________________

ok-here it is--
he is driving down the road & saying he is going to hurt himself-- i am wanting to call my atty. & see what other options i have w/ the divorce- i am feeling pretty unsure about the decision i made anyway--do u understand--i know i am hurting u so so so much, but i dont know what to do I dont know what i want i am such a mess i just wanted u to know.

Okay...here is my suggestion....

You need to do an emergency consult with Steve Harley. Call the hotline immediately and they will get you fitted in today. It might be at the end of the day, but he will get to you. Since this guy is saying he is going to commit suicide, this is not a laughing matter. This is serious! Call Steve immediately and get his take on this, as he is the expert and has dealt with this situation before.

Let us know what he says.

In His arms.

I think you're plan is great MM -- except for one element.

I think wife needs to get away, but she won't want to go with Dazed right now. Quit her job today (your family is far more important than her paycheck...) If you can talk to her boss to let him know what is happening they will probably let her come back later. Regardless, it doens't matter -- she needs to not be where he can find her.

Dazed should remain here. Protecting his home, his daughter, and his territory. Daughter can't just vacate school for two weeks. Dazed can't leave his job for two weeks.

I believe in the other post that a family member (sister? sister-in-law?) wanted to take her to visit family for a couple weeks. If this person is a friend to your marriage, send her away with that person immediately.

I would schedule counselling with Jennifer or Steve (immediately - tonight - emergency) so that their message is the last thing on her mind. Tomorrow she is in the car or on the plane.

I would remove any way for her to communicate with OM. Give her your cell phone, you take hers and take her secret one. (I wouldn't send the secret one back, I'd just let him think she was ignoring his calls...) Then get her out of town.

Make sure S/SIL babysits her and doesn't allow her to contact OM in any way.

Meanwhile, you put your protection plan into place. Get all the restraining or protective orders that you can!!! He'll being going nuts for the next couple weeks if he can't reach her or find her. He'll walk right into violating the order.

I agree. The only problem with getting away is that if she is alone, she may be tempted to call and "check up on" the OM. That is why I said get away with Dazed. Dazed can keep her "gainfully employed" for those two weeks.

But, if he can get her away and with a friend or family member that will do the same, then I absolutely agree with you.

In His arms.

I want to reply to her message. Any suggestions about that?

I called MB earlier today and set up a call with Jennifer for next Tuesday night for both of us. Jennifer is out of the country right now.
I will call back and see if I can talk to Steve by myself.

I will call her work place today during lunch break. The owner likes us.

Dazed,

Mrs. W is emailing your wife in the next few minutes. As she is unaware that we know so much of her story, Mrs. W is only going to discuss why she was away, our trip, and how wonderful it is being in a reconciled marriage and how my changes have been awesome and permanent. She'll then request an update from Mrs. Dazed and hopefully renew some dialogue.

MM and Lexxy are dead on. Last weekend when she ended the divorce she thought OM was done, decision made, she'd broken his ultimatum and now she could come back to you and try. But, Alas, OM STILL loves her soo much...he can't live without her. He's willing to STILL take her back. Love, Drama, addiction...It's all so confusing. Mrs. Dazed is completely lost right now and IN PAIN. Doing what MM advised above in the "manly" thing to do, it is strong and protective and you must follow through. This is a CRISIS point where change CAN be affected. Take the opportunity...what have you got to lose.

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - I know you have no vacation time and your job has been in some jeopardy as of late but if you can by any streach get away TOGETHER that would be best...If not, send her away ALONE to a trusted relative that can lock her up...literally. She'll call OM in a weak moment no matter where she is. Crap...have her committed herself...she needs a break from all this however you can get it done.

Dazed...

I just emailed Mrs. Dazed...I kept it brief, just asking for an update...I will wait for her response and an opening before I proceed further...I think she has to be handled with kid gloves right now...I am hopeful...

Mrs. W

Use common sense. Work as a team with her. She'll keep bouncing back and forth as long as both of you have access to her.

Go to her right now. Go to her office.
Tell her:
"WE" need to help him...He needs "professional" help..."WE" need to call for help for him...

And from her office, make that call with her. Call the police, tell them OM is threatening suicide. Let them lock him up on a pysch evaluation. (At the same time, its more documentation for your protection order.)

Talk to the owner right then and there. Remove her from that office where he can track and find her.

Take her this afternoon to fill out all of that paperwork.

Get an emergency session with Steve for tonight if you can.
Get her on a plane tomorrow morning.

I wanted to respond to the specific email she sent, though...and then maybe help you come up with a response. But I am still telling you that you need direction immediately from Steve (Mr. W was dead on just now) and you need to move forward on protecting her!.

Now, her email...


Mr. W is an attorney and can help me with this. But if you have this email and any others that show her saying he is going to commit suicide...then you can call the police immediately and they will lock him up. First off, if he isnt serious, then this is a huge manipulation ploy (I vote for this one). But, if by some chance, this guy is "mental," then he just may harm himself. And whil he is a scumbag, you still need to do the responsible thing and have someone evaluate him. If he is playing games here, then he is issuing threats to your wife. That is illegal!!


Okay...here is what I hear..."Dazed, I want to see if I might go back to doing cocaine again. I am feeling pretty unsure about the decision I made this last weekend in stopping coke. Do you understand? I know I am hurting you so much, but I cannot stop. I dont know what to do.I dont know what I want. I am such a mess...and just wanted you to know because I know that you are the only sane person in my life right now and I deseperately need your help."

That is what I hear, Dazed. I hear an addict who is in such pain that she cant get out. When she tries, the drug dealer (OM) throws everything in the way, causing her to just fall back in.

Again, dont look at this as an affair or love. This is an addiction. Can you see that now? She is an addict. You said you would be there for her in sickness, in worse. She is sick, Dazed. She is hurting and she continues to ask you to help her. She is lost.

Be the hero. You get things moving now. I am willing to bet everything she WILL follow.

In His arms.

I went to her office. She was surprised to see me.
The cell phone that has been dead at home was setting right on the corner of her desk.

She did not to leave the office. She did not want to talk to anyone about getting some time off.
When we talked about getting him help she was not against it but did not say either way. I told her that by him telling her he was going to kill himself there is only one of two things to take from that. 1) He is serious and must be helped by a professional or 2) He is messing with your mind. Do you want to take the chance? Let's get him help so you don't have to worry about him. She did not argue but did not want to call anyone. I suggested she call the police and talk to a desk officer or the hotline out of the phone book. She said she thought she just made a mistake Monday and there personality's are just alike and when she talks he can finish her sentence because they think just a like. I said, would you listen to yourself. You finally get a week end with out pressure and stress and you figure out what you want and when you do it he can't respect that.
I understand you care about him and don't want him to hurt, so let's get him help.

I dialed the police from my cell phone and asked the desk officer to talk to her. She told the officer there was not problems and she had talked with him and everything is okay.
The officer wanted to know his address and she got scared and quickly got the officer off the phone. The officer calls me back wanting to know the address. I suggested she get the information from my wife. My wife got back on the phone and declined to say any more and begged the officer to leave him alone and not embarrass him by sending over police. The officer said it was to late for that and they will be sending over officers to check on him.

Later in the parking lot the wife went off on me for calling the police on him.
She says that I stabbed her in the back by breaking her trust in my by telling me that stuff. Now the cops will go over there and embarrass him and he will have to explain himself to them.
I told her that he needs help and we did the right thing. She said no you did it and I will never forgive you for this. How could you do this to me and embarrass him.

I said I am only trying to get him help and protect you. She was now in her car and trying to leave. I told her she was not going over to see him. She told me she will do what ever she wants.
I told that can not allow her to run over to his house knowing he is unstable and thinking threating you with killing himself. She said he wont do it. I said well then he is just manipulating your mind or is her really going to do it. Either way it's wrong. I don't want to have to explain to our daughter why mommy is not ever coming home because she is dead.
There is only one Mrs.Dazed and because I care we must do something to prevent things like this from happening.
She said, I don't need your protection just let me leave.
I made a big mistake by staying with you. You are just manipulating me as much as he does. You just do it differently that him.
I filed on you because I did not want to be with you any more. I should have just went through with it but I felt sorry for you. I don't know what I was thinking.
You are horrible. You get out of here right now. If you don't get away from my car I will only be home tonight to get my stuff and leave.
I said, you will stop talking to me like that. No one is stopping you from nothing. I am only standing her talking to you. I did not force you or push you into anything.
She went off and said another round of hateful stuff to me. I said, okay... I hope you are happy with yourself.
I walked away and got in my truck and left.

She called me minutes later screaming; "I hope you are happy with yourself"... The cops are at his house and questioning him... I hate you.... I hate you....

So, I would say that went well...huh

Very well! You may not think so right now, Dazed. But it went very well.

As I told you before in one of my last posts, she will perceive your actions as manipulation, like his are. But with time (NOT with your education)...she will see the difference. He threatens...you are a man of action. There is a huge difference!

Let the dust settle, The police will probably talk to you. Show them the email(s). Discuss about him driving by the house all of the time (they already have that on record). There is a pattern here.

And again, the next step is get the order, Dazed.

You are taking her away from her drug dealer...and it hurts. She is gonna be angry...know that right now, okay?? Anger wont end your marriage...the addiction will!!

Her rant is more fog babble that she is conditioned to say when she is hurt.

Oh, one thing I might say in response to her "I only came back because I felt sorry for you." The response: "No honey, that is why you continue to go to the OM...because you feel sorry for him."

Anyway, hang tight. No educating (so forget that last thing I wrote!!). Stay on target. This is gonna cause this guy to lose it. He has been stopped by the police and now questioned by them. He cant get your wife to make a move here. She keeps going back to you.

This guy is gonna lose it now. Either he is sane and will just say that your wife isnt worth all of this mess...or he may be dangerous. So, prepare your house and daughter for this. Watch your back. Get that gun if you have to. Definitely go get that order now! And be ready to protect your wife any way you can.

Dont force this now. She may up and try to leave again. Just be quiet and let her go thru this. She has to in order to have a chance to come home! Just stay still and keep shining that light. The OM is going to be even worse than he was before to her. That relationship can never survive...she has seen his ugly side.

Keep us updated. Get the order. Protect your family. Talk to Steve ASAP.

You are doing fine!

In His arms.