S & C,

I really don't know why this statement of my post to Authentic1, who is a Christian would offend WAT.


I'm not quite sure why he called me on it, and then told me after I answered...that it was inappropriate.

If he would like to debate about the difference of counselors that is up to him. I really don't want to get into a big discussion about that, that would really be fruitless to me. I did feel an argument/debate coming on though, but rose above it the best I could. Thats not what I wanted nor intended to be involved in. You know what I mean?

Thanks.

Lady

NC,

There really is nothing I need to apologize for...so I will not be intimidated or belittled by your words.

Lady

Saints On Bikes!

I'm almost speechless.

Simply flabergasted.

S&C -
I wasn't sure what she meant, which is why I asked the initial question.

This is what she said:

How do you read that?

I read it that because Dr. Harley is a Christian, he can be trusted.

Why does that have to be said? The inference is that non-Christians aren't necessarily trustworthy.

How can it be read ANY OTHER WAY?

Thus, I asked the question. I agree that MAYBE she meant and thus SHOULD have said, "Dr. Harley is a Christian counselor so you can trust his counsel to be Biblically based." I got no problem with something like that. None whatsoever.

But that's NOT what she said and her responses to me indicate that's NOT what she meant.

And no, I'm not looking for an argument as my subsequent reponses ought to make clear. What I AM looking for is to nip bigotry in the bud when I read it here.

How would you read her statement if instead she or someone else wrote, "Dr. Harley is a not Christian counselor so you can't trust his counsel."??

Hmmmmm?

This kind of bigotry feeds those who would ridiclue Christians. Can't you see that?

So, I'm doing you a favor to politely point out that tolerance of others is in your own best interests.

Is THAT unbecoming of me?

Sheese!

Now, since you provoked this phase of the discussion, exactly what is a Godly or Christian counselor? Someone who says he/she is?

Why would ANYONE deny or grant trust on the basis of a self proclaimed label?

Osama bin Laden is godly. Just ask him.

And, BTW, what does a claim of godliness or Christianity or any other faith or non faith have as predictive value over future behavior?

I say none.

Sheese. Now I'm po'd.

Amazing. Simply amazing.

The only thing more amazing is that some of you cannot understand what I'm saying. You cannot see the bigotry. As indicated by her subsequent responses Lady doesn't have a clue about what I'm saying. NCwalker gave her an opening and she doesn't even see it.

Amazing.

WAT

Throwing this into the mix as food for thought...

I AM MOST DEFINITELY A CHRISTIAN, OK?

The best psychotherapist that I have ever had was Jewish. I just happen to know this..it didn't matter to me. He brought me a through a terrible time AND RESPECTED and ACKNOWLEDGED my religious beliefs, encouraging me to attend church regularly to help cure my depression...

THE WORSE "COUNSELOR" I ever had and WE HAD (my H saw her once) works at a "CHRISTIAN" COUNSELING CLINIC...


Some guy on here who is WORTHATRY was one of the GODSENDS on the MB's Forum who literally SAVED ME after my D-Day. His religious beliefs don't matter to me either...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Amen to that mimi!

WAT is not the enemy...

Hey WAT,

When I am flabbergasted, it is time for a beer.

And since we can't do that, how about a beer joke?

>> At a world brewing convention in the States, the CEOs
>> of various brewing organizations retired to the bar at
>> the end of each days conference.
>>
>> Bruce, CEO of Fosters, shouted to the Barman: In
>> 'Stralia, we make the best bloody beer In the world,
>> so pour me a bloody Fosters, mate.
>>
>> Bob, CEO of Budweiser, calls out next: In the States,
>> we brew the finest beers of the world, and I make the
>> king of them all, gimme a Bud.
>>
>> Hans steps up next: In Germany ve invented das beer,
>> Giv me ein Becks, ya ist der real King of beers, danke.
>>
>> Paddy, CEO of Guinness, steps forward: Barman, would
>> ya give me a diet coke with ice and lemon. Tanks.
>>
>> The others stare at him in stunned silence, amazement
>> written all over their faces. Eventually Bruce asks:
>> Are you not going to have a Guinness, Pat?
>>
>> Paddy replies: Well if you Fookin pansies arent
>> drinkin, then neither am I.

WAT, the best MC I had was not a Christian. The worst I had was. I think pro M MC is what is one should look for.

nc - a good one. I enjoyed it.

Several years ago I had an Aussie au pair for my son. She was a real hoot. Being pretty much uninformed on most things Aussie (overly influenced by advertising), I thought Foster's was THE Aussie beer. WRONGO according to "Taz" (my nickname for her). Turns out (according to her) that Foster's is the Aussie equivalent of Budweiser - the mass produced swill. "Vic Bitter is what you want, mate!" Her Dad brought me some when he came to visit. Yummy!

ff - this was not really about the quality of counselors. Every intelligent person knows that faith does not a counselor make, nor an attorney make, nor a plumber make. Duh!

It was about the Christian equals trustworthy thing, and by implication, non-Christian equals not trustworthy thing.

For the record - I couldn't care less about the faith or non-faith of a person - until they look down on others' faiths or non-faiths. I have close acquaintences of every flavor I can think of. Heck, my son goes to a Catholic school! With my acquaintences, mutual respect prevails.

Religious bigotry is the worst kind - because it also means you're a hypocrit.

WAT

Good one NCW. If you have anymore please post them on my thread. I could use a laugh or 2.

Opinions, Opinions......and a reminder.

Let's keep this about the subject matter (MC) and NOT about ANY particular poster! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Justuss - you too?

This was NOT about MC.

All opinions I have expressed are my own - and those of a LOT of others as well!

WAT

I am aware of the subject matter.

Please don't allow it to include attacking other posters.

Worthatry,

You have crossed the line into attacking me. I am not a bigot nor a hypocrite for telling authentic1 that Dr. Harley is a christian counselor. He is, but he counsels those of all walks. He is very well know in christain circles, and highly regarded as a good MC counselor all over the USA.
Why that offended you is beyond me. And why you wanted to twist what I said...to your opinion of all other counselors is beyond me. But the things you have said to me here are very hurtful, and rude.

Sincerely,
Lady

OK.

Apparently, this is going to be very difficult without sounding like an attack.

Because it seems that even the merest pointing out of an issue is an attack.


I have read this entire thread and have not read any malice or mean spiritedness on either side. I have just seen iron sharpening iron.

I HAVE seen a lot of pride and unwillingness for self-examination.


Jesus himself was not afraid to call a duck a duck. Clearly that verse above has a harsher tone than anything said here so far.

Ladysheep, here is what you SAID:


That is NO DIFFERENT from saying:

"Dr. Harley is WHITE so you can trust he won't steal your stuff."

It is NO DIFFERENT.

It is BIGOTRY.

That is NOT an attack, it is applying an adjective to where it fits appropriately.

You did not say that Dr. Harley was a Christian counselor. What you said was he could be trusted BECAUSE he is Christian. Which implies that non-Christians are less trustworthy.

THIS is an attack:

Pull the darn plank out of your own eye and apologize for your bigoted statement. That's all WAT wanted.

I can't say it any simpler than that.

You may not have MEANT it like that. In fact, I probably would BET that you didn't mean it like that. But it is a fairly simple sentence, and does not leave much room for interpretation. And CLEARLY it offended WAT.

Would it be too much to swallow the pride and apologize???

And to the rest of you, coming in here and pooh-poohing this.... SHAME SHAME SHAME on you! A bunch of hypocrites.

We all talk about how the WS has to face the music. We all talk about how the WS has to accept the anger of the BS for what has been done. We all talk about how the nastiness of the affair needs to be exposed.

Then something else nasty shows up and what do we do? Try and disarm it by changing the subject. THAT is exactly what the WS does and we call it FOG and disdain the behavior.

And if you are sitting there saying to yourself, "NCWalker, that's a little harsh, I am sure Ladysheep didn't mean it." Well as I said above, I am sure of it too.

And I am also sure, if you asked the WS's here, that THEY didn't mean it EITHER. They let there guard down and fell into their affairs. It is unlikely they set out to do it. I don't think most of them INTENDED on wrecking their marriages. They just stopped being careful. Stopped guarding their hearts. Stopped being self-critical about the morality of their actions.

HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT???

And if you are thinking "Well, there is a big difference between an affair and a slip of the tongue." I would say this: to YOU maybe. But can you speak for WAT? How do YOU know what bothers him?

There are people out there who live in open marriages and dislike bigotry. Surely for them, the greater offense is Ladysheep's. Who are we to say they are wrong? It's like looking at someone and saying "That doesn't hurt."

Jiminy Crickets. This is a lot of energy that could have been avoided with a simple sentence or two. Something like

Geez WAT. I see what you meant. I really didn't mean it that way and I'm sorry that it bothered you.

I have stepped on my own tongue on THIS exact same issue long ago. In fact, I think it was with WAT. And I apologized BECAUSE IT WAS WRONG.

NCWalker

NC, this has nothing to do with iron sharpens iron stuff.



My post to authentic1 was to her, as I thought it would be important to her as a new member and the fact that she is a christian, and christian principles are her core values. My post was to her, not to WAT.

Read her last post...it was important to her.

I'm only sorry WAT had to take everything out of context, and so did you.

Lady

Ladysheep - I apologize if what I said was interpreted by you as an attack on you.

For what it's worth, I was not intending to attack you. I was intending to point out how what you said came across to me - an objective, neutral observer.

I did not call you a bigot. I did not call you a hypocrit. If you felt that I did, my humble apologies.

So, again, I apologize for not communicating more clearly so that what I was saying was better understood.

I am saddened that my communication was misunderstood by so many. This was never about marriage counseling.

I think NC summed it all up rather well.

WAT

Yes you did, your insinuations that my post was one of bigotry was uncalled for.

I think what NC said was very wrong.

My posts to authentic1 were.


WAT, I will not accept your manipulative apologies.

Lady

OK.

So I will bite on this one and hard.

Attention everyone: the following post on this public forum is ONLY intended for WAT

Dear WAT,

Women ARE a bunch of emotional basket cases. They think with their feelings and as such, should not hold important jobs or be heads of state. I would not trust a woman to handle any situation in my workplace of any kind of importance.

Regards,

NCWalker

And I don't want to hear one darn complaint about the above. It was directed to WAT. Anyone else who heard it, well you can kiss off.

I want credit for GETTING THIS....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This kind of thread is a perfect example of why I am about ready to leave MB for good.

Why can't we all get along? Is this helpful? Is it healthy?

We could repectfully disagree, or just be nice, please.

We are all valuable here.

WAT, you are very helpful here, as is ladysheep. I believe an apology was offered, and should be accepted. No one is manipulating, WAT was just wondering. Asking for clarification.

ncwalker, your comment was very disrespectful and sexist. Not a complaint, just an observation.

If we believe in MB, then we should take DJ's seriously, and not allow them here.

Love in Christ,
Miss M