LT,

I'm in Hawaii. The MBer's who post here are from all over the world. What a support system.

What you are feeling is the effects of the what we call the 'roller coaster'. Please read the link in my sig line about the 5 stages of grieving and see which one you are in. I'll let you figure it out.

Right now your mind and heart are not in sync. Been there, done that....may of us have. So take our hand and let us guide you in a supportive way to recovery. Trust me the next stages will set your emotions in another direction and your H's life would need t/b protected if those emotions were left unchecked. LOL!!! Motherly instincts run strong and faithful dad instincts are right up there. It's those dern WS' selfish 'stincts' which mess up our lives and our families. All the more reason for you and your children to form a family bond to fight the WS tooth and nail to get your H back.

Ready to fight? We got the MB plan.

L.

LT, you are definately on the rollercoaster of infidelity. Your emotions will continue to be up and down, back and forth. You are not bi-polar, you are normal.

The thing you need to focus on, is keeping your strength for the sake for your children. You have to talk to yourself, and remind yourself of what really matters in all of this.

You have to tell yourself, over and over, that you will be ok, and SURVIVE this, with or without your M. We need to pray for God's will to take place in your life, for the ears to hear, the eyes to see, the heart and mind to open and the strength to follow thru, with whatever His plan may be for you.

Spiritual strength is the best source to draw from (along with MB, of course!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />) The more you can work on this area, (spiritual health), the more HOPE you will find, in seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And it's also a sense of peace that you could never imagine.

Anyway, this is just my thought and opinion. I wish you well, and I will pray about this, LT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Take Care...Jennifer

hey...

lt's ws here... and i'm not sure entirely what to say in the wake of the last few days... which have been a roller coaster (to borrow the phrase from above). it's been argumentative, it's been painful, and it's been my fault... and as most other ws's out there can probably attest, the guilt is at *all* times almost unbearable.

i had my first affair last march... a full year ago... and it ended last june... and there may be earlier threads by lt that provide detail into that mess. i made mistake after mistake after mistake... falling further and further behind in what i should have been doing. it was selfish and irresponsible and left me a devastated wreck that it was even possible for me to have forgotten what it meant to be a husband and father and friend...

but i'm not asking for pity or forgiveness, because i've never forgiven myself and doubt i will, because the pain i've inflicted seems impossible to overcome. to describe the past few months without sounding again selfish and callous isn't fair to lt... because i don't blame her for her emotions and i do understand. i really do. but it also hasn't stopped me from talking to other people without her knowledge or consent... in fact, in realizing that she would be upset i purposefully hid two of the relationships i had with people who were associated with the ow of my affair. one was a male... so i didn't see any problem with it... even if it was kept secret. but deep down i did know it was wrong. the second... which came later... was with one of his friends who was a writer and he let me read some of her work and i asked to be introduced via email. we exchanged correspondence off and on... she would send me new writings as she finished... and a basic friendship grew that extended into our personal lives. although there wasn't a physical affair... or any discussion of such... it was still an inappropriate relationship because it was hidden and did have the potential to be more... whether unlikely or not. i do understand that, but at the same time thought i could keep any inappropriate under control... which sounds really lame after everything is out in the open. so i never saw it coming... even though i should have known it was wrong. anyway...

i've been worried sick about lt. the talk of suicide... tears me apart. the thought of being responsible for causing so much pain to someone you care for so much... especially not even realizing that your actions would trigger that type of reaction... it's crushed me just as badly this time as it had the first. and i don't know what to do. as recently as three weeks ago lt had asked me to move out... to leave... because i wasn't happy, and truthfully she wasn't happy either. the repurcussions of the first affair have proven insurmountable to date. i can't look in her eyes without seeing the pain i've caused. she can't look at me without thinking about what i did. and the pain we both feel has crippled our lives.

i never wanted to leave. never wanted to move out. but i wonder now, if caring and loving someone is enough in the face of having hurt each other more times than not. i don't want to hurt her anymore. i don't want to feel this pain anymore. it's not that i don't feel i deserve every bit of it... but it's killing me emotionally and physically. every day. so why would i do it again? i'm torturing myself over that... i didn't think i was... but maybe i was... no, not maybe... i could have easily made the same mistake twice if the circumstances allowed... at least part of me, the part that feels i'm selfish and not any good, that part says of course i would have.

kind of a just an outpouring of thoughts... so much has been going through my mind. i've tried to be here with lt... to comfort (although i doubt i'm the best person for that) and to talk. there have been fights... and i hate that the kids were exposed again to that... but mostly sadness and numbness and confusion over what to do next.

i want to thank everyone on the board who has provided so much support to lt... sharing experience and offering help... you've been able to help when i could not. thank you all so much.

i think i'm done typing for now... i was reading about radical honesty and some of the other harley concepts... and i'm letting them sink in and trying to understand... i'll read them again tomorrow.

thanks again...

- steve

Steve,

Didn't know you posted here last year also. Is this the same OW?

Glad you came and posted. Now I know I don't have to show you the MB ropes..... you should already know.

You have given your family several d/ds...not good.

Please go and read Trueheart's letter to the WS in my sig line. Even if you have read this stuff before, read it again. You've been back in the A and those words have lost their meaning, so read this stuff again and let's see if it will stick this time.

LT can get in touch with me if she wants. I can even ask my Xws to talk with both of you or just you, if you want. There are other Xwsh's here who are regular posters.... you are not going to find any A sympathy or any type of watered down version of NC here. Nope. We believe in nipping this stuff in the bud....more like cutting 'em off at the knees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> OUCH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My address: mborchid2@yahoo.com

I have to go to the hospital this evening to visit my aunt. Will be back later..... I know your time zone is a few hours over so keep posting and others will help.

LT, watch over his posts for me ok? Let him post whatever he feels he needs to post. Some of it may hurt but we can fix that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care....both of you....take care of each other.

L.

Hello, Wanderlost, and welcome to MB. Your's and LT's situation is definately in "rollercoaster" mode. But I'm glad the two of you found your way here, to MB.

There is alot of info. here, and ALOT of support, for both sides of this kind of situation.

It's a good sign that you are here, and acknowledging what is happening, here. I hope you can find some answers to all of this.

We are definately concerned about LT's talk about suicide. All of us here, are trying to support her, and tell her it will be ok. But the real support will have to come from you, which it looks as though you are willing to step up, and begin the recovery process.

I wish the two of you and your children the best! The others will be along soon, with their wisdom and advice. Good Luck to you both, and tell LT, that I did pray about this! Take Care...Jennifer

no sympathy expected, orchid... just putting thoughts to paper, or the web in this case...

sidenote... what is d/ds mean? lt think it might mean discovery days?

i have not read trueheart's letter yet, but i will.

it is not the same ow... i think lt may have the irony of the situation in a prior post... this woman is the ex-best friend of the ow... the ow had stolen her boyfriend after she cheated on him... and it's really a bizarre soap opera... which just gets worse and worse...

lt and i have been on for the most part together... although there are several posts here i haven't read. she's reading this as i type...

thanks again for being here...

- steve

Heyyy, WL, what about me? I'm not sympathizing for ya', either!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, but really, it does sound like there are quite a few twists and turns in this situation. But, it's still not hopeless!

As long as you both are committed to recovery, there IS hope. Just keep the lines of comunication open, and be supportive of each other, and put yourselves to work on this! It'll be just as bumpy as the A, but it'll be worth the effort! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

And WL, I think it would be a great idea for you to speak with Orchid's XWS. You could get some great insight from someone who's been in your shoes!

Best Wishes...Jennifer

Orchid:

LOL, i have to tell you that just a few hours ago I told my husband that if we needed space, fine that it would be me leaving him here with the kids while i go to Hawaii for some R&R.

Ok so the five stages of grieving....
I think that i was very stuck in the anger phase for affair #1. In fact it was only 2 weeks ago that something hit me and I hit acceptance mode...I finally was doing my part of the working on the marriage building..unfortunately i didnt inform my H because i thought that he would think it was just another false start so i thought time would show him. I was very proud of myself...then for some reason (GOD) i felt i needed to check his phone and that is when i found out about EA #2.

so....now i think that i am bouncing between anger and barganing. With depression following nearby. You see, i am angry and i lash out and that doesn't work so i turn that anger toward myself, hurting myself

Jennifer:
thanks for the prayers...keep them coming i could still use some more if it isnt to much to ask.

Steve has always had a problem communicating his feelings...i hope that i can keep him opening up to this board cause i know it could really help. I even told him that if there were things he needed to say without me reading I would respect that...he is having trouble with the whole radical honesty concept which is driving me crazy he still will not give me the password to his email with OW #2 and knowing that he still could contact her without my knowledge is killing me. I dont want the account destroyed because i want to know what was said in it, no matter how painful...i have to know because otherwise my imagination is so much worse.

thanks to all who have been supporting me
thanks orchid for not giving up on me.

Jennifer...

he went to bed but i'll be sure he reads what you said. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey LT, I think we cross-posted!

No, it's not too much to ask for more prayers! I'll be more than happy to accomodate that request! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are some first steps being taken here, and with this, it offers hope! One of my prayers were already answered, by seeing your H's post, reaching out for help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wish you both a healthy recovery, and the prayers will be coming your way!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

LT,

U R welocme to leave the snow and come out to the tropics. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It's been a bit wet out here these past few days.....flooding in a few areas but hey, you got your swim suit you'll survive. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your H has posted here before so he is familar with what we do here. If he really means it, we can help. We can be brutal to the xWS who act WS like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am glad u r both posting. If possible see if you can get your hands on the book: His Needs/Her Needs. It is by Dr Harley.

You can both benefit by learning the general different communication styles between the genders.

Add to that differnce the A and it's attitude and you have the potential for WWIII. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

However, if you learn HOW to overcome the difference and use it to build your R, then your M stands a good chance of getting better. Oh yea, there w/b days you just want to kick him out to the curb. I did. Several times.

My motto is: I keep plan B in my back pocket and I am NOT afraid to use it. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps. Never, never give up on yourself or your family.

take care,
L.

My H has made a couple of comments about spending time away from each other...to decompress. The thought of him moving out of the house terrifies me. I realized that what i am afraid of is twofold. First, i am afraid that it will allow him to spend more time talking to OW and Second, i am afraid that once he is out he will realize that he really doesn't want to be with me.
A few years back i suffered from panic attacks sparked by the news of my fathers cancer..i went to theraphy to get me thru it and in the meantime found that i have loss issues. Therefore the thought of "losing" my husband is what is evoking such an extreme reaction in me.
I know what i "should" do. I need to find the place in me that is comfortable being alone. I need to find the strenght in me that does not make me so dependant on him. Deep down i dont want him to stay out of guilt or a sense of obligation...i want him to be with me because he loves me. Which is all real good on paper, but i am having trouble finding out how to get to that place in myself. Finding the strenght to say to him fine leave and mean it because i know that i can go on without him. Where do i begin to find the strenght in myself so i stop allowing a WS behavior?
So this is what i currently need to do for myself.

IMHO, at your stage, that w/b a step backwards in addition to being financially a stupid move.

Consolidation and establishing a solid family unit to help you all cope with your recent change in employment status along with M recovery will be a 2 fold challenge but doable.....together.

If you have a few bucks to spare....,best to invest it in a couple of session with Steve H @ MB.

Get the book Hn/Hn I previously recommended. I know for me, in order to best support you from here, I need to know what from our posts have been beneficial and what has not.

Dr. Harley speaks of spending 15 hours couple time each week as a tool to improve the M relationship.

That's a start....there is more. The book Hn/Hn is real helpful.

How is he doing today? Btw, my H says if you all want to takl to him, that w/b fine. Just let us know via e-mail. I don't check that addy often, so let me know on here when you've sent it. We will be in and out of the house off and on today.

L.

LT & WL, how is the day going for the two of you? Good, I hope! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ok i guess. I am trying to keep my depression at bay today. Took the kids to see "AQUAMARINE" it was a nice movie, but there was a line in there that one of the girls said along the lines of her father leaving her and her mother for another woman....and i thought...i just cant get away from it can i?
i am sad because i am unsure of R. I am not confident that my H will do what it takes to make this work. He still holds that secret email and i cring when he is left alone with his blackberry.
I keep thinking that maybe i just want to run away for awhile...that if i am gone and he has to take care of everything and the kids he will see what he is missing.
Cant picture myself moving on cant picture myself in another relationship, cant see loving someone else.
On the other hand we havent been fighting today, but i know he sees my sadness and then i see his....

Well, you are still on the rollercoaster. If only we could just turn off our emotions with a switch, sometimes...

And it is weird, how things will just pop up, just about anywhere you go, to remind you of these things.

I believe God has a plan for this. And I prayed that His will, would be in front of you, so you could be guided in the direction that is in His plan, and the strength to follow thru. I also included your H and kids, in this prayer, that by His grace, the right thing will happen.

Hang in there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

PS...Have you or your H considered talking with Orchid's H? This could be a positive move.

yes we are considering talking to them...
although i have to say that i feel a bit shy about "talking" in person to them, stupid i know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

my H would like to read up on their situation a little first...but who knows when that will happen, tomorrow will be a big busy day of trying to drum up some work consulting wise.
What also bites is that not only are we trying to rebuild a injured marriage, but also employment and the damage that being unemployed does to a person.
ARRGGGGGGGHHHHH, I hate this, i hate this site, i hate that there has to be so many hurt people, i hate infidelity and the pain that it causes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gee am i in the anger phase right now, hummmmmm, i wonder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Well, if you are in the anger phase, this is a good place to cut loose and VENT your heart away!!

I just added employment to the prayer.

I know you have a lot to rebuild, besides the marriage. But you can think of it all, as a clean, fresh start, from the ground up! A complete overhaul! And maybe this time, it'll will better than the first!

The trials of life is what makes us strong. And you WILL get thru this! And come out a TOUGH person! Have faith. I know that is easier said than done, but it's very well worth the emotional investment!

We're here, LT!!

I just dont see how this is going to work itself out...
My H has never opened up and is having trouble with many of the MB priciples...

Before d-day #2 i brought home from the library HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS and tried to get him to read it...he thought it was a bunch of hoohaa. Where i was saying...see this is what i need this is how i feel.

I ask him what he needs from me to help him through this and he says he doesnt know...
i am lost, i dont know how to make him happy, and if and when i do do something wrong he will not communicate that to me so either way i lose.

we have two very different ways of looking at things i am a total communicator, not really one to keep any secrets no matter how insignificant it is from him and he is a conflict avoider who doesnt express ANY of his feelings whatsoever and really values his privacy at all costs.

I guess in our relationship he gave, cause what made him happy was to see me happy...but somewhere down the line he felt like he did everything wrong. Problem is i never had any indication that he felt this way because he does not share those things...so i continue on making misstakes never knowing that i am making him unhappy. YEt when i ask him what i do wrong he says "i don't know" so again no win for me....