Have you read Hn/Hn yet?

L.

Btw, if your H wants to know our story, have him do a search on my name. Somewhere in those several thousand posts is my story. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

hey orchid, jennifer...

me again... lt's turn to brush her teeth...

she did read the book. i tried... but many of the examples just seemed to ring false for me. i hardly remember it now... and i think some of the examples lt found to be dead on... but for me the men's exampled seemed just cliche, and i couldn't associate with them at all. some even offended me, but i may have been taking them the wrong way, like the men who marry a "trophy wife" and then maintain that expectation as a tenet for a working relationship. but i'd have to look over the book again to delve deeper into my opinions.

i haven't read trueheart's letter yet... we had a somewhat busy day, and most of the time lt has been hogging the computer (little joke, very little)... but i will. as far as harley's policy of radical honesty and policy of joint agreement... i'm not so sure about either of those either. do i value privacy more than honesty? i think i do... although i hadn't thought of that much until reading his policies and thinking it through. lt has been asking me repeatedly if she should have an online affair with some other man and would it bother me... and although i fully admit my mistakes... i can't say that what i didn't know would truly hurt me. i'm not saying this to make excuses or rationalize my own behavior... but just that if she found someone who provided more of what she needed in certain areas of her life... whether male or female... that i couldn't provide... than i would try to be understanding, or at the very least not want to know. and i'd be ok with that.

the policy of joint agreement... about being enthusiastically mutually agreeable to each others decisions... that doesn't mean that much to me either. if lt really wants to do something, she has my blessing... regardless if i agree or not. i know this annoys her at times... as if i don't care or something... but i do care and i just simply don't put a whole lot of emphasis on the importance of arguing against something she wants that i might not. i'd rather see her happy, and avoid confrontation at all costs. i am somewhat (well, maybe a lot) passive/aggressive... so i'm sure i get my digs in at inopportune times... but i don't like to fight and for the most part keep to myself. we had a long talk this morning about her being a stay at home mom... and i love the fact she is. i don't begrudge or resent any part of the life we've had, and we have two wonderful children to show for it.

she mentioned in her last post that i feel i "did everything wrong"... but i wouldn't go that far. i think i've done a lot of things right. but i don't think i've done a very good job as a husband, even excluding the affairs, and i hard as i've tried to be everything i think that she wants and needs... i know i've fallen short. from communication (i suck - but you should have all figured that out by now) to religion (she's catholic - i'm adamantly not, but thank you so much for your prayers, jennifer... they are sincerely appreciated) i know we're separate people but i didn't know how the difference might fracture a relationship based on love and respect. and i do love and respect her, even though the affairs fly in the face of that... they were wrong and i was wrong.

as far as the 15 hours go... we spend far more time together than that. i love spending time with her, and with the kids. we have a GREAT time together, we always have. but we're struggling, and i'm struggling, and there's so much hurt that sometimes i just can't ever imagine seeing a world without pain. pain that i caused. pain that i can't seem to absolve... not without tearing apart myself in the process... and i tried so hard the first time that it's really hard to imagine doing it again... because it didn't work the first time anyway.

this should NOT come off sounding like a surrender. it's not. and i understand all too well the financial situation we're in. ugh*

and i haven't moved out... i've only talked about it with lt. as she has with i the idea of leaving or going on vacation. is it the right thing to do? i don't know... but it is something... something different... and different means a change from a norm that has decidedly become one of continual hurt.

she mentioned i wanted to see the "story of orchid" before i talk with orchid's h... this is true. i'd like some idea of what the circumstances were to identify similiarities and have some common ground to stand on. that and a few drinks and i should be raring to go (another little joke... i'm not a big drinker)

well... lt is done brushing her teeth... just about time for bed if i can get her off this computer... wow, i can't believe it's already 11!!!

thank you all again... the world around here is a little more stable thanks to your kind words and support... and i'm glad there are people like you here for lt and others.

- steve

Steve & LT,

Take this at your own pace and use what you find is best for both of you. It is good to think of your partner and put their interests ahead of our own. Tends to help keep things in balance.

The 15 hours is a couple time alone hours. We do things as a family also but not much couple time due to varying schedules. I am a full-time working mom. Have always been. Makes it hard to have time t/d more than the basic necssities.

Just a brief recap on our sitch.....

d/d: Nov 2000
WS: ONS (several times), last A lasted 3 years with OW (PBR - psycho babble rabbit - that name is a whole story in itself).

BS (me) found MB end of Dec 2000, joined end of Jan 2001. I read the concepts and SAA books in 3 nights.

Went to MC, had 1 session with Steve.....studied MB, Trueheart (a Xws MBer) helped me out by writing a letter to the Ws for my then WS.

Many stories and incidents with this OW. She was and still is a nutcase.....OW claimed 3 pregos w/o proof, threatend to have me arrested and fired from my job, accused me of having an affair with my FIL and being a lesbian. Geeze, I can't imagine doing all that and working 70 hours a week. LOL!!!

Bouts of depression, on the fidelity diet, attempted suicide. I did plan A, then plan B. Worked on plan D @ my own pace.

All the while the WS wavered....back and forth. Seemed this OW had her claws in him deep...... I finally got the strength to tell him it's over and to leave. I was finally ready to move on.....to my surprise he wanted to come home but I let him back too early and we went through several false recoveries. The OW pulled her last trumph card when it seemed I wouldn't go away. LOL!! She filed false charges against the WS (after he told her it was over) and he went to court. Asked me to go with him and I did. This is where I got to see the OW in the flesh..... she wasn't much to look at and even in the hall.....I past her by w/o a blink. Really a nothing person.

Since then the WS has transformed to and Xws and now to our H and father. It still takes time. I keep plan B in my back pocket and yes....the trust factor is still in the healing stage.

There is no quick fix. It is all about him being there for us. His family (son & I) have already shown where our loyalty lies....to our family and our God. Not to any WS.

BTW, H is a soft-spoken man who has learned to cuss since he was with the OW (who IMHO cussed like a sailor - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ). This is one of the bad habits he is learning to break.

There are still trigger in our livse. I am the primary giver in our family but have learned t/d less to get more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So that's it in a nutshell....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh Steve, can you please refer to your W as LT (all caps) instead of lt? When I see lt, I think you are writing It or it and well....it doesn't sound nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
L.

Wow, what a nutshell....how did you do it? I think that frightens both of us...that this will be a battle for years. That our relationship will never be "normal" again.
I want to say thank you to you and also to Jennifer for standing by me, i cant tell you how your words have kept me here, when i start to hear the voice that tells me to just kill myself, i come here to type, here to see someone cares...i will never have the right words to thank you all.

LOL, last night after i read my H post i told him the same thing about using caps for LT...

I had to laugh about that, too. I kept reading above how 'It was brushing her teeth'. Okaaaaaaaay. This is an interesting man we're talking to. Maybe we can get him to refer to his wife as a person, rather than an It. That could help....

Welcome to MB, even if I am slow on the uptake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Neak:

I have to say that i have idolized the way that you handeled your WH. I wish i had your strenght and resolve. How are things going with you two now? I have to say, I was a fool to believe that "all the h*ll" i put him thru the first time i really thought that he would never do it again....
live and learn i guess.

Aw, sweetie, we all live and learn. And you can borrow my Cape of Power anytime! WL, watch out if she does! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> We are doing really good.....good for recovery, that is. I am the one whose feelings are all over the map, but I try very hard to keep my actions on a straight course, regardless of those inconvenient feelings. I have learned the truth of "You (the BS) are the greatest threat to the marriage."

A's are very addictive. That is not to excuse returning to them again and again. But remember what the Bible says about "As a dog returns to his vomit...." It seems to take several tries in most cases to break the spell, and by then the BS is so fed up that the damage is 1,000s of times worse than before. Then the WS just wants to forget it ever happened and move on with normal life.

It doesn't work that way, so be very patient with yourself, and your H needs to be patient, too.

Neak,
what color is the cape...does it go with red hair and freckles? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Mine is Vivid Red, and another friend has Glowing Purple. If you have red hair and freckles, perhaps the standard Strong Forest Green would look nice. (But you get to pick your own color.)

When you wear the Cape, you are unruffled, invincible, unstoppable. You move through life with deliberate dignity, stepping over a WS in the path if need be, but aware that you are gracious enough to pause while the WS regains their footing, if they ask very nicely and you can see that they are genuinely making an effort to rise.

Glide everywhere you go.

Smile serenely at those around you.

Speak your mind, but sweetly.

Everyone should have one.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A mind? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you mean a cape. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad I understand now. I had half-a-mind to disagree with you, before I figured it out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Lost tiger---

It will get better. My WH had 2 yr A. DD 2/01/06. Kicked him out that night. Forgave H 2/14. We tried to work it out. WH kept lying. 2/28, contacted OW to confirm my gut feeling that WH had sex w/her. Almost had a nervouse breakdown for the first time in my life!

This is when I DECIDED I wasn't going to let him hurt me anymore. What I did is not in the MB plan. But reading countless of posts in recovery was too much for me to let my self go through months or years of living and wondering if my H will ever be faithful again. So I basically told him I was done. I'd rather spend those months alone and find someone whose values are like mine. There are MEN and WOMEN out there who will not trade in their self respect regardless how troubled their relationship is.

WE all have to put a limit on ourselves to how much we can compromise our self respect and dignity. People who have affairs are people who suffer from low self esteem. They do not know how to love and respect themselves. Therefore they are not capable of showing love and respect to those they profess to love.

So, I decided that I'd rather use each day as a recovery for myself rather than wondering if my H will cheat on me again. Doing this has allowed me to walk away with some dignity and self respect intact, something that my WH or the OW will never be able to.

Keep talking to friends.
Good luck.

Me (46)
WH (42)
M 2-1/2 years
A 2 yrs
DD 2/1/06
Today, 3/5/06 every day gets better

I was glad to come here, tonight, and see that you have been posting. There is wonderful support here, for you and your H.

I have faith that your situation can workout. Sometimes we have to hit our very lowest points in life, in order to rebuild from a new foundation. So I believe this is all happening for a reason, so that you and your family will come out wiser and stronger, and on more solid ground!

Hang in there! This will get better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

Well today i am running around with a borrowed cape...not the right fit but holding me strong for the moment.

Searching for one in my size and color. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

long, long day... not much talking between LT and i (i laughed too when reading the posts about my referring to LT as "it"... i would NEVER do that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)... but not much arguing either. trying to get back on my feet from an employment perspective and LT has given me the room to do so... despite everything i know is swirling around in her head... and i have to thank her for that. she's been far more selfless of late than i have been... but i think it's through much of the support you all have shown her.

not too much for me to talk about... very tired and worn down... and there's been so much talking the last several days i'm yearning for a respite. not that issues are resolved... just tabled for a moment or two. still waters and all that. i know... usually my posts are long and drawn out babble but i'm running a little low on fuel tonight.

plus my son has ISAT tests starting tomorrow and i promised him i'd get up to make him waffles... eggos of course... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

again, my thanks to all... and LT told me about the name change plans... and i WHOLEHEARTEDLY endorse that decision... because we can't even go to the zoo anymore without my being reminded... and i always really liked the zoo...

- steve

Glad 2 C U 2 posting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ok, now that we got all the initials and stuff straightened out....let's get down to business.

LT's got her cape and WL's busy in the job market.

U 2 have got your jobs cut out for you and hopefully that will help u 2 get closer together with the same goal in mind.....a happy M & a healthy family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

If it helps we can offer other chores..... I got some windows that need washin'. I tried to let the rain clean them but wind just keeps blowin' the wrong way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Oh, Oh, I have a chore...

Could you wash my truck?? It looks like I've been 4-wheel'n!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Steve - Good to see you posting again, and welcome back.

No chores today guys...

Not feeling very strong today, sort of a sit on the couch and stare into space day. Need to buck up for when the kids come home and Steve.

likewise here. barely made it home after a few hours of "work" where i'm running into dead ends and generally feeling miserable about the prospects of successfully launching my own business. maybe this just isn't the time to be doing this. but looking back on the past several years, which seem to be one employment set back after another... i'm not sure exactly what it is i should be doing.

compounded with a stressful home life, not that one is more important than the other, but having both be stressful is doing on a number on my mental stability. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

i guess i'm not alone in this. many of the posts i've read are very similiar. sometimes life is just hard it seems.

ok... enough with the woe is me attitude, i'm beginning to annoy myself... LT is off at a brownie dinner with our daughter and i need to scrounge up some grub for our son.

and then... "american idol"... and watching that is almost exactly the same as sitting on the couch and staring into space... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

- steve