haven't been on computer for several days so here's a brief update. things have calmed down a bit. not much talk about the cs issue. we are going to see fh's attorney and go back to court to get things more detailed in writing. it will most likely happen in a month or two. fh needs to make a very detailed list of what she wants to have addressed. as far as i can see it will consist of 3 main things, 1- no hair cuts (which i think the judge will feel is a petty issue), 2- no ear, nose, eye, or any other piercings or tatooing, and 3-no out of country trips. if you remember om is from quatamala.

we have been dealing with some other issues with oldest dd. 3 weeks ago she moved 5 hours away on the spur of the moment to live with her oldest d father. she left him 6 years ago because he was physicaly abusive. well she thought that since his letters had been so promising he must have changed. well he hit her the other night and she moved back in with us. fh and her don't live well together under the same roof.

lynn don't worry. nothing is going to happen here without some counseling which i have made an appointment for on march 27. and get this, the counselor that we (or i if fh backs out) see is the same counselor that fh and i were seeing while she was pregnant with grace. we haven't been back to her since before grace was born.

the things fh likes are going out to dinner and movies. we went out to dinner to the tune of over $450 a month plus the movies last year. I didn't realize how much we were spending until i was doing our taxes this year. i told her that was a lot of money and she said yeah but we don't do anything else. well in my world $5000 a year can buy a nice vacation or two. point being although we were going out and meeting one of her needs on a pretty regular basis none of mine were being met. we used to go boating but she doesn't like that anymore and she is not a sports fan. although she says she wants to go to our kids soccer games she usually has a reason why she can't or won't. when she does go and the team loses she says if that's the best the team can play i don't want to go or she gets furious with the refs for bad calls and says something similar.

anyyyhowww, i am hoping that the counselor will be able to help us and her get thru this. she went to a counselor (different one) a few months back and when fh laid out all the things that were eating at her the counselor told her "i can see why you're depressed, i would be too". then she stopped going. reason is unknown to me. if this new/old counselor doesn't work look for us i am sending a letter off to dr phil. he would be my last ditch effort.

I certainly don't know your situation, pops, as well as others who responded to you. You were one of the first people I remember, however, when I first came to this site. My 2nd exWS and I were considering reconciliation and integrating the OC into our relationship. My ex told me up front he would never "abandon" a child of his, and knew he had no right to ask me about reconciliation. I was willing to consider reconciliation, but had never heard of this kind of situation until I came to MB.

Anyhow,
As more of an outsider...I don't think enough focus is being given to the fact that this dynamic with fh was going on before the affair and all the other crap that came with that. Your needs were not being met then. What is it going to take for fh to make some changes in her behaviors??? She already chose a behavior that she regrets (affair) and yet has made no changes in herself to try and change some of the earlier relationship dynamics...including meeting your needs.

There may be guilt, shame, depression, but when do the excuses stop?? She places herself in a victim situation IMO. An excuse not to change. Sometimes people actually "like" chaos in their lives. It gives them an excuse to ignore their own issues and need for change. In which case, fh will never work on the marriage. It's one thing after another in her life. They're legitimate concerns, but this could go on indefinitely. One needs to pay attention to one's own fires before everyone gets burned again!

As far as taking meds for depression, sometimes life is about compromise. Especially when if affects so many in your life. I take meds for depression. I hate being dependent on something external to help me with my depression. But, I had to get over it. Let my ego go. My family was paying the price for my condition, one which I could improve. My depression has been medication resistant. I have gone through various kinds of AD meds and various combinations. It hasn't been an easy journey even on meds. It's still not real easy, but my kids deserve their mom to be the best she can be,,,even if it's not perfect. (I'm divorced so I don't have to deal with a spouse's needs at this time.)

Don't like taking meds? Well, I didn't like not being accessible to my kids, not meeting their needs because my depression consumed me. fh choices are affecting lots of people. I realize that lack of motivation is a part of depression, but it doesn't sound like this is something new. I was at the point of seriously considering suicide. My marriage was falling apart. My health was going downhill. I felt like I had nothing to give my kids, anyhow, so why be a burden to everyone? I went to the sheriff's dept, took my handgun test, bought a gun and ammunition, practiced loading and pointing it, and wrote a letter to my sons.

I had never been willing to try hospitalization. I was a mental health therapist. I might run into some of my past, present, or future clients! I was smart enough never to say the things that could get me involuntarily admitted. I, again, set down my ego, and decided that my ego was just going to have to suffer for the sake of trying to be there for my sons. I had tried everything but hospitalization.

Well, I was blessed. This was when insurance was generous. I found a specialized hospital program in Texas to go to . My insurance paid for it..even the flight out there! That helped my ego a little bit! lol I did get more stable. Not great, but functioning. I got my courage up and filed for divorce from my first H. It was a decision I had avoided for a long time. But, something had to change. And it looked like it had to be me.

If nothing changes.....nothing changes! Our ruts can feel comfortable, not satisfying, but comfortable. Change stirs things up. It can be pretty uncomfortable for a long time. But, so is divorce, or giving up on having your needs met.

There seems to be a flavor of "rescuing and enabling" here. My second H.was an addict/alcoholic. I did lots of rescuing and enabling trying to make things better. Afterall, he couldn't help it that he had this disease! Well that excuse only lasted for so long....too long. I finally got to the point where I was fed up with his choices. I was tired of my life being centered around his crap. My needs sure weren't being met. That didn't stop me from continuing the behavior over and over. I had to get so uncomfortable with the behavior that the discomfort of change didn't seem so bad.

I stood firm on him getting treatment or I would no longer be a part of his life. We didn't have any children together so that made it easier. He'd drank and drugged since age 15. He was 41 years old then. He had relapsed numerous times. He went for treatment, and stayed clean and sober this time. It was rough going for the first few years, rebuilding trust. But we ended up having six very good years together. (He then had an affair with a 21 year old he met at his AA meetings! I considered this a "relapse". All the old behaviors were there even if he wasn't drinking/drugging. The OW was his drug of choice.)

Those good years would have never happened if things didn't change...on my behalf and his. I don't regret those years. They were good ones. The outcome of the marriage was what sucked!

I'm not saying my opinions are accurate or correct. I'm just sharing how this situation struck me.

heart,,,, that is what i am looking forward to addressing at the counselor on the 27th. i said it before that i have spent most of my marriage trying to do the things that fh said would make her happy. imho, i have been enabling her to just find another excuse. AND it has been enabling me to feel somewhat admired because i have solved the problem and all is well for a brief period. or so i thought.

she has become, as you said, comfortable in her life ruts and even wrote it in the letter to me the other week. she said she is stuck in this sad state and doesn't know how to get out of it.

i also think that she feels she is being punished (cs and visitation) to this day and it will continue for the rest of her life for her affair if we don't ask for this pardon. like the guy that gets life in prison for stealing a candy bar. i believe it is her own quilt that is keeping her in her rut.

thanks for the input