I was told the test yesterday was a PAP and the results will take a week or two to come back.

She did not say anything about an STD test. I think she might have wanted to get checked out because she had been with OM unprotected. Maybe something else made her want to get checked. I know she has been using linears lately and she never liked using those before unless she had to. I don't know. I am a dumb guy when it comes to that stuff and I feel kind of weird discussing this here.

There is no way she could be pregnant. She was tied years ago.

She also came home yesterday with a new package of Zohlof. That was a surprise. A month ago when she got her first prescription AD pills OM took them away from her. These ar new and a different brand so i know she did not get them back from OM.
I guess she is starting back on AD's today.

I presented the MB week end to her a couple of weeks ago. Of course she was not recepitve to it. Our anniversary is April 18th, and I am tring to pitch the week end as our anniversary week end together. Still working on it.

Thanks again MM...
You are always in the know...
Yes, I can see that with recovery patients and keeping on a course is going to be hard work.
She already is testing to see if the old me is going to come out and play. Also I can tell that moving the marriage in the right direction is going to be mostly all my job and I will have to lead the recovery if real healing and connection is to take place.

***I know she has been using linears lately and she never liked using those before unless she had to.***

Not familiar with the term "linears" here -- it's okay, we're all just trying to help. There isn't much that's off limits here as long as it's polite. It's all part of marriage and intimate relationships, which is what we're all on this site to deal with.

What's a "linear?"
Mulan

Mulan,

I'm wondering if Dazed meant "liners," as in "pantiliners?"

Dazed, I'm glad to hear things are heading in the right direction! Keep it up and don't let yourself get discouraged when the tough times come -- God is truly on your side and YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Take care,

Dulce

Dulce~
Thanks for the correction on my spelling..

Last night she was in very good spirits. Several good things happened.
1) We had my niece over to the house to hang out with daughter. The wife took her and daughter swimming and then shopping. I think this was a huge step for the wife. Remember this is the niece we had guardianship of last year that the wife let go of because of her affair wanting a divorce. I know the wife has felt really really bad about putting our niece through that and it had also cost our daughter a friendship with our niece.

For the wife this must have felt really good to repair the relationship with our niece and the friendship of our daughter with our niece.

2) The wife has finally started using her work out equipment again. She wants me to start a work out program with her and help her with her diet. Last night she also started using her tanning bed that I installed back in January.

3) She told me this morning that she is repairing damaged relationships at her work as well. There are several women that the wife works with that was really against her affair and openly treated her badly at work because of it.
Since the divorce dismissal went commerical and made the local news. The women that was against her at work are all being supportive of her choice to end the affair and stay married. She was telling me that a couple of the women that was she really struggled with daily have openly came to her and have offered to be her friend.
The wife was telling me that they were friendly before the affair and she now understands why they were acting the way there were.

4) The wife told me that she is now reading the book "how to survive and affair". She said she just wanted me to know. Keep in mind that the wife is a reader and when she wants to know somethings she really researches it. Her reading this book now is perfect timing.

The next books I am going to set out for the wife is "his needs her needs".

Awesome

really happy for you Dazed.

I really think you should post a final post on this thread and indicate what you have changed your name too. It will only be a matter of time before she shows up here and you are not yet 100% out of the woods yet. It looks good, but false recoveries happen around here sometimes. Remember, even Mortarman had a false recovery where his wife came home and left again. You don't need her knowing your backside strategies nor do you want her to feel you've just been putting on a MB act. Your changes are real; but she may doubt that after reading this thread. Further, she may not be far enough along to handle EVERYTHING you have put up on MB. The WS anger over the sharing off confidences can be overwhelming. Better safe than sorry.

You can show her later in recovery. After withdrawal. But for now...close out this thread, indicate what your NEW posting name is (so nobody bumps this thread) and begin a new recovery thread here for awhile and then on recovery. Keep us updated please.

Just my opinion...others thinks the shock of reading the thread is a good thing. No worries.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.-when you type in your new name put spaces btwn the letters so it's not a searchable key word...for example, "P L A N A W O R K S" or " D a z e d s u r v i v o r"

You are correct...this is a very good sign!


Get on it, man! Recreational stuff is great to build up love units. Dont let this by the wayside. Dont push either! Just show you are available (and even start workign out a little on your own).


This is actually the best news I have heard so far. To know that she sees where these people were coming from is HUGE! It means she can see reality again, can see out of the fog. She understands again why people disapproved of that relationship. She also is being reinforced by them in her reconciliation efforts because they are willing to re-establish friendships with your wife...not your WW. It means that much of this reality seekign and validation is coming from other sources (NOT YOU!!!) which mean she is being "educated" by others. This is the BEST of all worlds!


That is good. Dont push and dont educate. But havign a few books around she can read.

It is going well, Dazed. If you guys can get NC established, I believe you are well on your way in a couple of weeks to be fully engaged in recovery!!

In His arms.

Hey Mr.W~
Good advice. I agree with you completely. I like your examples too... Plan A works..... Yes it does!

Mort~
Thank you again. I am surprised she is making such improvement so quickly. OM just became so nasty to her that he has really sent her running back to me.

She was such an emotional wreck that I feel she is more fragile that she looks right now. I am afraid she may want to settle into some of the destructive roles we were in before. However, I know she is still not ready for much if any work.

The one thing I have already seen and have been wondering how to address.
Because I was unavailable to her, she spent a lot of time with friends to fill her need of conversation and companionship. I see this starting with her new girl friend from work. I have not pushed the issue or in any way discouraged this friendship. However, when she said she made plans with this woman because she new I would not want to go... I did not let that one pass. I thanked her for thinkging about my feelings but I do enjoy spending time together and I asked her to please not assume my reaction with out talking to me first.
I would love to go shopping with her or walking after work. I told her to please don't think you can't do things but don't feel like you have to replace me with others for friendship.

Mort & Mr.W... I am sure you two understand where I am at. I appreciate your help.

I want to add a note....
Maybe better said on a seperate thread but oh well...
I want to say a prayer for "pleasehelp" AKA Frank. He is going threw some pretty tough times and could use a prayer from all of us on here....
Keep your head up Frank....All of your friends are pulling for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dazed,

After getting through some rough spots in my M I started LOOKING for things that my W & I could do together.

It didn't really matter as much WHAT we were doing as much as it was that we would do these things TOGETHER.

It has helped keep my W & I from "drifting" apart and helps build more memories together. Perhaps this could help your W and you.

Stay Strong!

Today I find myself thinking about is it too soon for me to share with her my feelings and concerns finding things to do together.
This morning she tells me about her plans to work out three days a week with her friend like I am suppose to be happy about it. I am glad she wants to start thinking forward about living a life that does not revolve around OM.

I am confused about this statement she made to me. I feel it may be a test to see if 1) I will be supportive of her having friends outside our marriage. This is something that OM made very clear to her was not acceptable to him. The only person she could do anything with was him. He sold this to her as he just wanted all of her and her time.
2) On the other hand it could be she is checking to see if I want to be a part of her life going forward or will I want to live seperate lives like the way it was before.

For me I might be thinking too much into this. However, I don't want her to think that we are going back to the seperate lives type of marriage.
Right or wrong I feel hurt that she seems to be moving further away from me and back into that old way of thinking about our relationship.
I do not want seperate lives and feel that we need to spend time together for a connection to take place.
I don't care what it is. As long as we find things to do together.

Right now all I have been doing is letting her know I am interested and available.
I don't want to be pushy or pressuring but I am not sure she know's how I feel either.

Hey Dazed,

If you have a moment and feel up to it, would you stop over on Good Father's thread and give him your input - you did a brilliant job of exposure, Plan A and fighting the fight for your DD. He could really use your help.

Regards,

BB

Thanks for helping GF, Dazed!

Regards,

BB

The test results came back negitive for cancer.
Ther was no additional info about any other test.

She has been a little stand offish today. She again refused to join me for lunch. Just like everyday.
I went home to let out the dog and she was there. Pissed off at me for not locking the door before I left for work today.

I called her later to chat and see how she was doing. She just blew up on me for not locking the door again. I thanked her for letting me know how important it is to her and apologized and said I was glad we discussed this so we can move on and not be angry. She said she had to go and hung up.

So I am on my way home to see how she is tonight.

Thank God

Learning how to help right now is hard. The wife does not want to do anything right now. This week she has distanced herself from me.
I can't tell if it's normal with draw from OM or if possible contact again. Everything I do irritates her.
She tells me in a little kid voice she does not like me. Last night she said she did not like my hair, she was mad I left the doors unlocked, she does not like the way I talk on the phone, pretty much everything. When i tried to touch her hand she pulled away from me. She chose to sleep on the couch last night as well.

Last night after daughter went up for bed I approached her. I apologized if I have made her feel pushed or stressed. I let her know that I understand she needs some time to heal however i want her to know that I am here for her to talk to if she wants. I told her that I have not tried to push a relationship on her because I feel like I don't know when she will be ready for it. I asked her to let me know how she feels so I understand how not step on her toes because her feelings are important to me. Also, that I don't want us to walk down the same path that lead to our problems in the past. I don't want a life of a single married person for either of us.

She did not have much to say other than I am making her feel pressured because she can tell I am not happy about her doing thing with out me. Also I am irritating her and she wanted me to know that.

Hey, Dazed...

I haven't read your whole thread, just this page. Gotta question...as part of your Plan A, are you doing the Listen and Repeat?

"I thanked her for letting me know how important it is to her and apologized and said I was glad we discussed this so we can move on and not be angry. She said she had to go and hung up."

How about, "I hear you are really angry, is that correct?"

"You believe I won't do what I say I will do, is that correct?"

I say this because you said, "and not be angry." Which really angers me. LOL She owns her feelings, right? They aren't yours. You can't make her angry. You've already covered this, right?

I don't see you emphasizing choice here...hers or yours. I see you saying what you want and that you want it for both of you. In withdrawal, affair or just her, she is the only one to choose...to choose to call you and attack...chooses to withdraw, sleep on the couch...her choices.

Yours were to thank, apologize, assure her without knowing her thoughts, feelings or beliefs, not want a single life for her, not step on her toes when they are hers...how abusive are ya?

"I hear you feel pressured by me."
"I hear you do not feel safe to be yourself because of what you believe will be my reaction."
"I hear you stop yourself from being honest with me."
"I hear you choose to not be honest with me."
"I hear you're irritated with my intentions or actions, is that correct?"

This is how you inject respect back into your marriage. Validate her beliefs and feelings...just do not allow yourself to believe them...they're hers. Hands off.

Do not choose to believe you are irritating her..she feels irritated. Validate that. You're not making her that way. You can't. You're human, right? Or is there something you're not telling us?

This looks so hard for a pain-filled BS to do...and it was, for me. I did it for me, for wanting to be a respectful person after years of not realizing how very disrespectful I was. It worked. I advise it strongly.

Stick to only "I" statements..."I feel" and "I believe." Choose to stay honest and open. No relationship talk except for an agreed upon time once a week for twenty minutes only for the first month. Tough? You bet. A blessing in disguise? You bet!

Concentrate on RC and those 15 hours of UA...making it fun again, for both of you. Go through the inventory and find something new to try.

Get excited in yourself about all that you're learning--you are searching out answers, finding out how relationships really work...give yourself some much needed and warranted self admiration. Hug yourself and love yourself so that you know you're worthy. Her A isn't about you at all. Her choice. You're whole, complete and marvelously made, Dazed.

You are.

Know it.

Show it to yourself.

You can do this!!

LA

LA~
Thank you for the advice about listen and repeat. I have been doing all I can to not educate and direct. I really like your suggestions about listen and repeat. I have done some of that but I need to do more.

UPDATE:::::
The WW is right now as I type most likely at OM's house.
Her car is parked a half block away at a neighboring apartment complex of which there is no one there I know of she would be seeing. OM's cars are at his house.
99.99% sure she is with him.

Of course I'm very hurt and tring to decide how to plan my action.
The past week I could tell things seemed to be backing up. She stopped opening talking about her struggles and feelings. She has became more closed off emotionally and at times very disrespectful. I have held my boundries about her passing complete insults on me but I don't alway say the right things at the right time.

This week she has a all week training seminar at work of which she is helping coordinate events.
Sunday night she left her mother and sister her with me from 9 to 10:30. Which seemed odd when she told us she needed to go to the store and get some things for work in the morning when she had already been to the store with her sister three hours earlier.
Then last night she calls and tells me that she is going to be a couple hours late because she is helping with the dinner and then has to clean up afterwards.
She then called and asked to hang out with a couple girls from work and talk. I asked if there were men there and could I reach her there if I needed to. She got pissed because i asked about men.
She came home around 10 and was tired and in a bad mood.

Then this morning I woke her with a kiss on her forhead and said good morning honey. Once she heard the shower running she immediately started yelling at me for not making our daughter shower last night and now she is going to be late because of it. I just said, You can get in the shower as soon as DD is done and you won't be late and will nothing to complain about.
I guess that came out all wrong and was not the best way to phrase a response.
So I left the room made sure DD had clothes to wear and I finished up the laundry so me and the WW had clean clothes to wear.
When I came up stair the WW had never gotten out of bed and now I was going to be late because she had not even started. I asked if she could get in the shower now because it is getting late. She threw off the blankets and stomped into the bathroom.
Once she came out she accussed me of having an ****** attitude and how I just started in on her first thing and how she can't talk to me and all I do is get mad and angry about everything she says and does. I said, time out...

Now I don't know why you are angry with me. I woke you with a kiss and said good morning honey very nicely. I apologize if I made you angry. Tell me how I did this so I understand.
She says, you and your pissy ****** attitude starts in on me before I even get up. I said, why did me kissing you on the head and greating you with good morning anger you to where you had to blow up on me. She says, I did not you started it.
I said, okay. I just want to get along with you. I feel like you are mad at me like I did somthing wrong. I don't understand.
You are not doing anything by the book. You are suppose to thank me for my thoughts and sharing with you.
I really don't care if DD ever showers again.. ****** with her she can just be gross, I asked her to shower last night and she did not do it. I was just telling you and you got all mad at me. I said, okay.. I agree.. She is dirty and should do better at cleaning. I will support you with her when you tell her what to do if I know about it. I made sure you had laudry clean this morning, I got her into the shower early so we all had time. I woke you very nicely and I feel I have to tell you when I feel you are not sharing with me rather insulting me and making accusations.

I felt I held my boundry of blaming me and bluntly disrespecting me and yelling at me rather than talking to me.
I am having a hard time recalling the details from this mornings conversation. So it may be a little out off what I wrote above.

So, today wrote her a message asking about her feelings and asking her to share her thoughts with me. I got no reply at all.
I called her a little before the end of the day and she was a complete ******. I asked nicely how things were going. She said with an attitude, ok I guess... I encouraged her to share her thoughts... She just blew up and said that I will just get mad and be and ****** so what's the point. I was nice and replied well it is your choice, I am letting you know I am interest and will listen. She said, no your not, I can't talk to you... I know you, your just your old self... You are not doing anything right or by the book.
You just get mad at me and now I am walking on egg shells all over again.
I said, I am sorry your feel that way. I am not angry and I know things have been hard for you. I understand this is not easy, that is why I called to see how you are doing.
I feel like this is hard, and I am not perfect either that is why I believe we need professional help.
She replied, you and that crazy MB cult crap... They would tell you to stay married no matter what. They would tell a woman to stay with someone that beat her or raped or killed people. I said, okay. You are intitled to your belief's.

Thank you, Dazed...

You give great posts! Okay, let me give you another view of the same stuff. Sometimes it takes quite a few...this isn't arithmetic.

First, you some great information from your WW:

She does not feel safe with you.
She believes that when she is intimate, she is scolded, judged.
She believes in the book (HNHN?)
She wants to live like in the book.
She wants to be safe.

These are her beliefs, not yours. Her truth doesn't match yours. That's okay.

Let's look at yours:

You believe you lovebusted with AOs, is that correct?
(I am seeing this because you now respond to her with a intentional calm and controlled voice.)

You believe you are safe now, is that correct?

Sounds like you are enforcing boundaries on blame and DJs from her.

Here's where the conflict continues...

You have no control over her DJs...only boundary enforcements. However, I believe that you are enforcing a boundary of what she chooses to do to you that you are still doing to her.

This isn't a bash...another angle. The part of separate and equal is crucial. Replacing the belief that she can make you (angry, mad, frustrated, late, etc.) and that you can make her (same stuff), is what is missing. You may see the light of respect, yet haven't gotten to all the ways you really do DJ.

DJ's come from beliefs. They are not actions to control. Same with AOs...ridding yourself of AOs, the permission to do so, is a great first step. I applaud you. I remember how difficult it was. Like you did with AOs, you committed to act not react. Use this with DJs, also. Getting rid of AOs isn't suppression or control, though. There's another step. It is tracing your reaction, your anger, back to the belief it came from. Anger is a secondary emotion (this is like a game hint)...find out what your primary emotion is.

Until you get the true control belief replaced, that you can only control you...separate and equal, then you will still DJ.

Can you accept that you are not the cause, control or cure for your wife? For anyone? Not even your DD?

Humans have no control. They have influence. If your wife does not allow you to influence her, you can't. If you do not allow her influence, she can't.

DJs are very sneaky...subtle...they are taught to us from a lot of influential people...the media, our parents, our partners.

Some sound kind, compassionate, caring...yet they are disrespectful judgments.

Here are some of yours:

"I am sorry your feel that way."
"I know things have been hard for you."
"I said, okay. You are intitled to your belief's."
"You can get in the shower as soon as DD is done and you won't be late and will nothing to complain about."

"I guess that came out all wrong and was not the best way to phrase a response." See, it is the phrasing and it isn't. I'm not asking you to be perfect; just perfectly human. What you say comes from your beliefs. It is not how you are saying these, it is that you're saying them.

No judgment here, or attack. I know how much you want to get this...you're tired and worn out from DJs to yourself and others. You want to be safe. You want to offload all the stuff on your shoulders that isn't yours.

I believe in you. You'll get this.

Can I ask you a favor? A lot of what I'm writing to you, I wrote to Better_Than_Ever on her thread "LovingAnyway" Yeah, I'm famous. :::insert red face with big grin here:::

See if that is what your marriage has looked and felt like.

I would like you to promote choice to your WW, not entitlement. Please try not to use entitle anywhere. She's got enough...don't add more.

Which isn't judging but accepting this is her belief. Her life. Her truth. That will change. The more you change.

You know you did great things today...the way you woke her, chose to act in response to her abuse instead of react; how you asked for your time out...how you acknowledged her complaint and did not argue her being wrong about her doom and gloom forecast over DD showering (take hope, we all go through this with our kids)...

With every "I apologize if I made you angry." you remain unsafe to talk with. It takes away ten solid responses. She wants you to revert, to AO, to tit for tat...because that is the man she knows...the routine, the dance, she knows...just change more. Change your beliefs. For you.

How proud are you, Dazed? Tell me, please. Crow!

LA

LA~
Thank you for your help with love busters and anger.
I understand your point, just not sure how to practice getting better.

Last night was kind of a D-Day all over again. I seen her car hidden at OM's apartment complex at 6:45 and did not show up util 9.

She was 100% fogged out when she came home. She immediately started making sarcastic comments about daughter and me when she came in. I asked her several questions about the evening and her work.

She lied about everything. Said several times that her and her girl friends ate dinner at work then hung out and talked. Nothing about her car parked at OM's.

Just before I left the room for bed I aske how she was feeling tonight. She could not look at me and answer. I asked if she would like to talk about anything before I go up stairs. She says no.

She never came upstairs for bed. She is on the couch as I type.

I need to update my plan of action.... MM help!

U done with your plan A to your satisfaction? If so, looks like time for plan B. Why allow her into the home with her attitude and lies? Who else would you allow in your home acting like that?

L.

Orchid~ Thank you for your question.
I laid awake in bed most of the night asking myself the same question.
My answer right now at this moment is no. I don't think I can continue with out enforcing boundries and having a plan.

I have not enforced a plan for our marriage. I felt that I was smoothering her and she kept telling me she felt pressured. I backed off of her and then things began to drift and she is now backing up big time.

I new her breaking off open communication of her true thoughts and feelings was a bad sign. I did all "I" new how to keep things open. With the fog returning all that did was allow her to bash me and I also could have handled things a little better.

Regardless of the recent past...
Right now today... I need a plan for my self and my marriage.
I was taking the supportive roll and allowing her to with draw, but it is apparent that she has given in and contact and lies are once again the norm for her.

Things this week are a complete mess. I am totally stressed with everything on the plate.
My daughters birthday is Saturday. The WW had ask to take the lead for planning and getting all her friends together for a party. Today she has done NOTHING.
I am brain storming trying to figure out how to save this looming disaster. I asked WW last night if she there was anything I could do to help with things. Her response was just _uck it, I guess we can just do nothing. How about that? I have been busy this week at work.
I said, okay. Her birthday is in Three days as of tomorrow. I know you asked to plan everything, so I'm offering to help. She said, well I told her it was going to be a surprise. It does not have to be on her birthday.
I am thinking what the ****** are you thinking. That is a really NICE surprise for a girl becoming a teenager... Moving her birthday party after her actual birthday because she is busy...Yeah, spending the evening at her OM's... What a mother..
It is stuff like this, that is really making it so hard for me to plan A.
I never considered myself an angery person, but I am really questioning myself right now. I am angry because of my beliefs that a wife and a mother is NOT suppose to be acting like HER. Maybe I am wrong for having those beliefs but I just can't treat her like a freaking room mate that contributes absolutely nothing positive. She is nothing more than a figure head of a wife and has one again returned to WW for our daughter.

I personally knew she was not going to be wife material for a long time. I can live with that as long as she is at least trying a little to improve.

I gave her many oppourtunities to talk to me last night about her evening. She just keep lieing to me. She keeps saying I have not changed... I think she wants that to be the case because she herself has not changed and is once again giving in to that concept that she does not have to.

I guess some of you will come on here and beat on me for letting things get back off track.
I listened to her and allowed that to influence what is best for our marriage. I did feel at the time that I was pressuring her and we all talked that I needed to not push but listen, aknowledge, console, and share feelings.

Mortarman, can you help me with a plan and the proper way to impliment it?