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Dazed... So good to hear all this...thank you for sharing it with us... AND THEN THIS... I bought the wife a work out suit (stefani lamb) really cheap I just KNEW I liked you Dazed... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE the L.A.M.B. Label! YOU REALLY ARE A MIGHTY GOOD MAN!!! How 'bout you 'splain this kinda stuff to Mr. W? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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JP,
I'll take that bet!!
You all said "Plan B, Plan B" many times before, and SH came back with "Plan A." What makes Plan B right now, when you clearly werent correct before...in the eyes of the Harleys?
In His arms. You failed to say "WE" all said Plan B many times before. Typo from you maybe? You were saying the same thing awhile back, so I don't get the point on you pointing at other people, when you were doing the same thing. I read all the way back, and I don't think I missed anything. Oh well, no offense intended, but it is interesting how people are so scared to disagree with Harley on anything. I am sure he has been wrong before, like we all have. It isn't a big deal. I think this is one of them. This really could have been saved if Dazed would have the self esteem to see that she really does need him and probably really can't live without him. I believe she would come running back on his terms and WANTING to and WILLING to.Oh well, what do I know huh? Wow....
For those that I am getting after here, please do not take this persoally as most of you I count as friends!
But I have to say something here...
What Dazed did there is amazing. Lexxxy is the ONLY one to respond with an atta-boy...and no "buts." Okay, okay. Most of you all believe he is doing it incorrectly. I got that. But does anyone...I mean ANYONE want to wager with me that this advice of going to Plan B or doing anything different than what he is doing would be the same advice Steve Harley would give him right now? Anyone want to bet a week's pay on that?? Everyone here knows I love Plan B! But shheeesh. The Plan B call for Dazed has been going on for over two months now. If he had followed the advice of going to Plan B everytime it was brought up here...his wife would still be in that apartment and there would still be no hope.
Use whatever terms you want, what you folks are asking him to do is to give his wife an ultimatum. To do things to force her to do something that Dazed wants. And if I know anything about this stuff, then that almost NEVER works. Especially with a woman like Dazed's wife! MM, You seem to be trying to rewrite history here and are making all the people who talked about going to plan B earlier as different from the advice "you" and Harley are giving. I don't mean to get after you, but it looks to me that you were saying the same thing quite a while back. I agree with you Justpeachy. You HAVE been right all along. She would have been back and the marriage already mostly recovered if he would have followed earlier advice. Don't be scared to give your opinion. Your's is just as important as others. Harley puts his pants on the same way the rest of us do. MM has that military mentality in that he has a hard time disagreeing with Harley on anything. Don't let it bother you. His opinion is just that.. This relationship could have been saved 6 months ago. Keep doing what you are doing though, I think in another 3 years you should have her over the OM (think of 2long for examples of how long a plan A can be effective) (What 3 years going on 4 for him?) ... Did you hear about the man who said he was going to win the girl he loved no matter what it took? He sent her flowers everyday. Her room looked like a funeral home with all the flowers... She ended up marrying the Florist.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (think about it) At some point dazed, you are going to have to grow up and become a big boy and start to make some of these decisions for yourself and live with them. You seem addicted to every thought and move you make. Stretch yourself man. You know the answers. You are using this site like a drug is no different than what you say your wife is doing with OM. Make some decisions of your own and live with them. You know the routine well enough by now. You need to stop this obsession with your wife and let her see you have some other interests than her problems. That is part of the reason she can't FEEL loving for you. Get involved in some activities and hobbbies and interests seperate from hers. You are not making yourself totally attractive to her with this falling at her feet and trying to meet her every need and thought. I am not saying you have to go to plan B. REPEAT. I am NOT saying you have to go to plan B. What I am saying is Give her and YOURSELF some much needed space at regular intervals. It has been since March of 05 since she has met him as far as we know. That IS too long in my book on doing the same thing. Mix it up with some independence, other interests, and some confidence. (remember how she reacted when she thought you were talking to another woman on the phone?) That was her button. She may NEED to feel she has lost you. (NEEDS are not always what WE think they should be, but maybe what they REALLY NEED. Maybe her need is to think she has lost you???) Ever think of that as a need? If that IS a need of hers right now, then you ARE failing to meet it huh? Justpeachy
Re: wife wants to leave me for the OM [Re: dazednconfusedks]
10/19/05 05:29 PM
Cake eating and making "waffles".
That is what she's doing.
And she's getting reassurance from you that you will want her back.
Honestly, I think she is one of those women who feeds of hysteria or something...
I think she loves being the "one in the middle torn between 2 lovers"...I think she is loving this drama. She goes to your home...you wine her dineher and give your promise to love her and heal your family..trying to win her back by fixing her tire.
And then she goes back to OM at night sleeping with the [email]b@stard...and[/email] he does all he can in the sack and when he's with her to keep her there.
She is getting BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.
I say just buy the girl an cake and let her eat it in front of you!
What a woman she has become!
#2841382 - 10/19/05 07:31 PM and then you said What are you waiting for? It is time, Dazed. Peachy is right. It is Plan B time. She is wearing you down, you are now becoming combative. She is vascillating all over the place. Things are getting worse for your DD because your wife is able to come in daily and bring this junk in. Your DD doesnt want to talk to your WW because she doesnt know what she is going to get day-to-day.
Have you talked about what your plan is with your DD? or is she still just lost without knowing that anyone is in charge and has a plan? She needs this Dazed. Do it immediately! She needs to trust in something and someone right now. Your wife is obviously incapable of doing that, as she is causing all of the problems. But your DD is beginning not to trust you! She cant trust you because she has no clue what you are doing. So, she is starting to try to do it herself. Like bargaining for home schooling. Dazed, talk to her. YOU are in command, you have control of this. Let her know that. Let her in, or you are going to find that she WILL seek her stability elsewhere!
When is the court date? If it is more than a week away, then I dont think you will make it to the court date without going to Plan B. If it is in the next week, then you need to just find things to do and keep your wife away as much as possible until then.
As the Plan B Czar here, I want you to know that you are one of the best examples of entering Plan B after a great Plan A. You have done all of the ground work. But I also know that it is time. In His arms. And then you said.... The Wonderings and Lexxxy have it right. Expose and then off to Plan B land.
You are enabling and even condoning adultery by your wife. YOU are fascilitating it. And worse yet, your daughter now believes that this is acceptable because both of you have agreed to it.
You are the man here...you are the husband. Time to take charge and lead. Your wife is ripe for Plan B. Expose like crazy, let her know that after thinking about this, you cant believe that yo uagreed to this...that it must have been because you love her so much. But she is to break it off with OM and come home to work o nthe marriage. If after exposure and talkingto her, she does not do this...then you send her a Plan B letter and go dark.
You are helping your wife commit adultery. Stop it. Read more on Plan B, because by your post above, I can see that you dont fully understand it. As the Plan B Czar on here, I can tell you that your wife is ripe for Plan B.
Your choice. Your wife NEEDS you to do the right thing, as she is unable to do so. Please do not fail her.
In His arms.
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keepmovn4wrd Why are you trying to discredit MM? He has done a GREAT job helping Dazed through all this and HE HAS BEEN RIGHT ON all the way….ALL THE TIME….. I posted to Dazed a lot early on but stopped (I now am in contact with Dazed almost every day privately) because of the attacks (much like this one) from people that started telling him to go to Plan “B” after a couple of weeks…. People that obviously don’t understand what it is for…. NOT for a wake-up call for the WS but protection for the BS to REMAIN able to love and to remove themselves from the PAIN of the affair. “At some point dazed, you are going to have to grow up and become a big boy and start to make some of these decisions for yourself and live with them. “ Oh… how wrong you are here…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It takes a person of INCREDIBLE inner strength to do an extended Plan “A” so a lot of people who couldn’t handle what Dazed has handled think it weakness. THEY ARE SOOO WRONG… so wrong. Look back.. I have NEVER told Dazed to go into Plan “B” because he was STRONG…. He has been a WARRIOR though all this….soon to be his Wife’s hero. And… back to MM’s statement READ IT CAREFULLY… IT’S RIGHT ON… “It is time, Dazed. Peachy is right. It is Plan B time. She is wearing you down, you are now becoming combative.” Why did he suggest Plan “B”? BECAUSE HE THOUGHT DAZED WAS TIRED…..NOT TO WAKE UP HIS WS…. That’s because MM “Get’s it” and most of you do not…. Doesn’t make you bad people just… misinformed. BTW.. That exchange was LESS THAN ONE MONTH from the time Dazed got here….. MM and many others had NO IDEA at that time just how FIERCE AND STRONG our friend Dazed was….he has been AMAZING…… You also said….
“Harley puts his pants on the same way the rest of us do. MM has that military mentality in that he has a hard time disagreeing with Harley on anything. Don't let it bother you. His opinion is just that.. This relationship could have been saved 6 months ago. Keep doing what you are doing though, I think in another 3 years you should have her over the OM “ If DAZED had gone into Plan “B” six months ago I agree this relationship WOULD have been saved.. Oh…. You were talking about THE AFFAIR would have been saved right? Because if you were talking about the MARRIAGE…. You are dead wrong. Sorry.. but true.. That would be October….six months ago….that would have meant Dazed would have been into a Plan “A” for… let’s see…one month….yeah…. That might have worked…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Dazed has been in a Plan “A” for about 6 months… PURE HARLEY… Oh… I forgot he does put on his pants on as the rest of us do…. And it’s just his “opinion” right…. Except Harley puts HIS pants on in front of how many books he’s written on the subject? And how many successful marriage recoveries? Oh… and how many of us have years and years of study on the subject and the sheepskins to go with that study? Hardly an opinion…YOUR’S and MINE might be opinions…. But Harley’s advice…. Not so much opinion…… As for the other sarcastic remark “Keep doing what you are doing though, I think in another 3 years you should have her over the OM” If you understood this…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />You would know that the OM (or Ops) ARE NOTHING… NOT THE PROBLEM….NOTHING TO DO WITH IT…. Dazed was the problem.. And he is fixing that problem… and as soon as his lovely wife TRUSTS that he REALLY HAS changed…..you’ll see how much OM really means to this…. NOTHING……. FIGHT ON DAZED!!!! INSTRUCT ON MM!!!!! You guys are kicking A**!! GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK
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keepmovn4wrd One other thing….. You said…. Mix it up with some independence, other interests, and some confidence. (remember how she reacted when she thought you were talking to another woman on the phone?) That was her button. She may NEED to feel she has lost you. (NEEDS are not always what WE think they should be, but maybe what they REALLY NEED. Maybe her need is to think she has lost you???) Ever think of that as a need? If that IS a need of hers right now, then you ARE failing to meet it huh? The VERY reason Dazed is in this mess is because of his “other interests” Racing…..so why oh why would he make her feel like she’s NOT the most important thing in his life AGAIN…. And as for the “Maybe her need is to think she has lost you???” That’s just simply high school stuff… (are you still in HS? If so sorry… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Mind games aren’t the way to resurrect mature love…. Doing what Dazed IS doing is… he can fix this FAST or he can fix this RIGHT…. He’s choosing to fix it RIGHT and permently by becoming a STRONG man that DOES NOT sway back and forth like a pine tree.. But his roots are growing VERY deep and strong. He is becoming an oak tree that doesn’t sway back and forth with his wife’s moods…. She will see this once the fog clears and will admire him for it someday. He has to stay CONSISTANT… she’s confused enough without Dazed waffling and (aggh I hate this term… ) cake eating…..too!! He has to be a constant beacon of light… her lighthouse home….not a moving target….or she will remain lost….no mind games….just loving her home…. Good luck and Prayers Frank
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THANK YOU FRANK!!! ON THE NOSE, MY FRIEND!!! EVERY SINGLE WORD OF IT...TRUTH!!!
KeepMovn...I would honestly have worried about your post to Dazed...
*IF* I didn't know Dazed well enough to know that he would see your post for the misinformed and simplistic bunch of random thoughts that it is...Luckily, we all know that Dazed knows the score here...
and
*IF* you would have chosen to "cherry pick" from the advice of someone other than the very steady, calm, strong, informed and credible Mortarman...You have no idea how much credibility that you lost by not only choosing who you chose, but what you chose...those two choices speak volumes of just how much you don't get it...Actually, these particular choices have made your advice quite comical to those of us who do get it...Wow, if you only knew...
and
*IF* I wasn't a FWW who has seen very clearly what you most certainly have not, and that is...THE GRACE, THE GENTLE STRENGTH, THE SELFLESSNESS, THE LOYALTY, THE HEROISM, THE TRUE AND DEEP LOVE of a BS in Plan A...I have said many times on this site, that I believe that this is the closest match to the love of Christ that a human will ever be able to emmulate here...you have NO idea what THAT is like...I've seen it up close...it is VERY REAL in my life...it would AWE you, as it would anyone...Mr. W takes my breath away with the way that he loves me now and with the way he loved me even then...in the face of my very cruel betrayal of him...You have NO IDEA the kind of respect and admiration that I have for him because of the way he did what he did...Keepmovn, what my husband did, and what Dazed is doing, IS the very definition of AMAZING GRACE...
I KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT HAD MR. W HAVE GONE BY YOUR METHODS, "WE" WOULD NOT BE...Here's how I know...Because I know that affairs have NOTHING at all to do with the OP...they also have little to do with the BS for that matter...AFFAIRS ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT THE WS AND THEIR ISSUES...Please get this KeepMvn, and internalize it...IT IS FACT...Guess what, if Mr. W had used the "Keepmvn Method", guess what would have happened? I would have gone with the OP, a much lesser man than Mr. W, but I would have gone with him, because Mr. W's actions according to your plan would have proven to me what I believed then...that he did NOT love me...that I wasn't worthy of his love...and guess what? I would NEVER have dealt with my issues...leaving me doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over...UNLESS someone I came in contact with had the strength to do a Plan A with me in mind...and if that NEVER happened, well then, I would have remained a lost soul...A VERY LOST SOUL trying to be a mother to a daughter from a broken home...Whew, I'm glad Mr. W didn't choose "Plan KeepMvn"...and one day Dazed, Mrs. Dazed and their daughter will be glad that Dazed didn't either...
Like I said, your post would have worried me IF, luckily, this time on this thread, all the *IFS* fell in line perfectly to discredit you...Next time that you give this kind of advice it could prove to be very harmful and toxic, and in my opinion, it is very irresponsible of you to dispense such advice...Oh Man, *IF* you could only see Plan A from the FWS perspective...you would NEVER question the validity of Dr. Harley's very sound program...In fact, you would be very rightfully embarrassed and feel quite reckless about giving out the underdeveloped, simplistic and ill researched advice that you do...I read one of your posts on another thread where you asked someone to just consider whether your plan would work in their life, and you expected them to do so without so much as even a third party anecdote accompanying...I ask that you do the same here with the MB program, but I'm asking you to consider it coupled with my family's personal success story as proof...My husband and I are but one of the many success stories that belong to the legacy of Dr. Harley and Marriage Builders...KeepMvn, THAT is powerful, wouldn't you agree?
Mrs. Wondering
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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since when is giving your honest opinion on something an attack? wow. didn't know I've attacked anybody. Just my fogbusting focused at maniacal WS and psycho ow that's all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But if dazed thinks I am attacking him by NOT AGREEING with everything then so be it. This is more than I need right now...my plate's too full and I don't need the stress. So post email and do whatever ya want...not gonna disagree or speak my mind here b/c it gets shot down and ignored period on this thread. I am also at work and with patients so not gonna do this. but I wish you well dazed. Want you 2 know that. Praying for you and your W..that she finally wakes up and decides cake IS NOT FOR HER.. oh..here's my last .02 on the whole sitch: WHY ARE YOU REWARDING BAD BEHAVIORS? she still is in contact with OM...and is imho, agging it on...the visits when she leaves home, the man btw, is contacting her b/c he still thinks there's a shot... IF WW WOULD INSTITUTE NC...AND DO IT...he'd disappear. She is not letting him know that it's over..why? b/c it's NOT over yet. still a ww. Save designer handbags, tanning beds, and clothing for a Wife that's gonna invest in her family. Do NOT reward bad behavior...while she's not 100 percent bad all the time, she is A LONG WAY FROM BEING IN NC AND IN MARITAL RECOVERY. You're teaching her it's ok to treat you like poo, eat cake, and get rewarded for dong so! GIVE HER KUDOS WHEN SHE GOES NC...not to lure her back into marriage. no more opinions here.
me:37 BS; s:7;
xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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JP,
I'll take that bet!!
You all said "Plan B, Plan B" many times before, and SH came back with "Plan A." What makes Plan B right now, when you clearly werent correct before...in the eyes of the Harleys?
In His arms. You failed to say "WE" all said Plan B many times before. Typo from you maybe? You were saying the same thing awhile back, so I don't get the point on you pointing at other people, when you were doing the same thing. I read all the way back, and I don't think I missed anything. Oh well, no offense intended, but it is interesting how people are so scared to disagree with Harley on anything. I am sure he has been wrong before, like we all have. It isn't a big deal. I think this is one of them. This really could have been saved if Dazed would have the self esteem to see that she really does need him and probably really can't live without him. I believe she would come running back on his terms and WANTING to and WILLING to.Oh well, what do I know huh? I am not scared to disagree with SH. I have in the past. I believe I had advised back then that he should be preparing to Plan B once the court thing was done...which was never done!! I dont believe that I did say that he should immediately go to Plan B. if I did, please point it out because I truly do not remember ever stating that. Wow....
For those that I am getting after here, please do not take this persoally as most of you I count as friends!
But I have to say something here...
What Dazed did there is amazing. Lexxxy is the ONLY one to respond with an atta-boy...and no "buts." Okay, okay. Most of you all believe he is doing it incorrectly. I got that. But does anyone...I mean ANYONE want to wager with me that this advice of going to Plan B or doing anything different than what he is doing would be the same advice Steve Harley would give him right now? Anyone want to bet a week's pay on that?? Everyone here knows I love Plan B! But shheeesh. The Plan B call for Dazed has been going on for over two months now. If he had followed the advice of going to Plan B everytime it was brought up here...his wife would still be in that apartment and there would still be no hope.
Use whatever terms you want, what you folks are asking him to do is to give his wife an ultimatum. To do things to force her to do something that Dazed wants. And if I know anything about this stuff, then that almost NEVER works. Especially with a woman like Dazed's wife! MM, You seem to be trying to rewrite history here and are making all the people who talked about going to plan B earlier as different from the advice "you" and Harley are giving. I don't mean to get after you, but it looks to me that you were saying the same thing quite a while back. I agree with you Justpeachy. You HAVE been right all along. She would have been back and the marriage already mostly recovered if he would have followed earlier advice. Don't be scared to give your opinion. Your's is just as important as others. Harley puts his pants on the same way the rest of us do. MM has that military mentality in that he has a hard time disagreeing with Harley on anything. Huh??? And what is it in your background that keeps you from agreeing with SH? I for one have disagreed with SH before. Several times in counseling with him. And guess what? Cant think of a single time when we disagreed, and I was right. Not one. He obviously is the expert in this, unlike you or me. Again, I understand he can make mistakes. My advice is not just tempered by what the Harleys say. I also first go to what God says and what He is saying to me. I have found many times that what I have written, didnt coem from any knowledge I had or experience I had...but from direct revelation from Him. That isnt to say I havent been wrong. And I readily admit that even now I could be wrong. But I do know that the harley's have come up with a plan, and they are highly successful at saving marriages with that plan. More successful than most marriage counselors out there. So, in the end...if unsure, I will defer to the Harleys because they are the experts. But, as you have insulted me and my other military compatriots as "mindless" here, I think I will end this discussion with you now. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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MM,
I belive we may have been saying Plan B last fall when Dazed was runing around like a lunatic pulling his wife out of cars and trucks. At the time, Plan B was for his own safety and protection as his "Plan A" at the time was doing more bad than good.
He changed up miraciously the begining of November and the rest is history.
W
W
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Oh yeah, I finally read the rest of this that you posted: It is time, Dazed. Peachy is right. It is Plan B time. She is wearing you down, you are now becoming combative. She is vascillating all over the place. Things are getting worse for your DD because your wife is able to come in daily and bring this junk in. Your DD doesnt want to talk to your WW because she doesnt know what she is going to get day-to-day.
Have you talked about what your plan is with your DD? or is she still just lost without knowing that anyone is in charge and has a plan? She needs this Dazed. Do it immediately! She needs to trust in something and someone right now. Your wife is obviously incapable of doing that, as she is causing all of the problems. But your DD is beginning not to trust you! She cant trust you because she has no clue what you are doing. So, she is starting to try to do it herself. Like bargaining for home schooling. Dazed, talk to her. YOU are in command, you have control of this. Let her know that. Let her in, or you are going to find that she WILL seek her stability elsewhere!
When is the court date? If it is more than a week away, then I dont think you will make it to the court date without going to Plan B. If it is in the next week, then you need to just find things to do and keep your wife away as much as possible until then.
As the Plan B Czar here, I want you to know that you are one of the best examples of entering Plan B after a great Plan A. You have done all of the ground work. But I also know that it is time. I again stand by what I said...and am saying. Even SH said that if he is losing love for his wife, then he should go to Plan B. The issue has ALWAYS been how Dazed was doing, not what his wife is doing!! I stated that post in response to Dazed, who has said he couldnt go on...couldnt go forward anymore. And I said that it appeared to be Plan B time because he was dangerously low in the love department for his wife. What I chastised everyone for is using Plan B as a stick to beat his wife back into the house! So, I have not changed my mind. I would advise today that if Dazed was losing love for his wife, then he should go to Plan B. Or if she leaves again and things go to court. Jsut as I did then. Just as SH did then. No contradiction here!! In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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MM,
I belive we may have been saying Plan B last fall when Dazed was runing around like a lunatic pulling his wife out of cars and trucks. At the time, Plan B was for his own safety and protection as his "Plan A" at the time was doing more bad than good.
He changed up miraciously the begining of November and the rest is history.
W
W Right, as I just posted, I did advise before that if he was losing love or couldnt control himself, then he needed to go to Plan B. The argument here has always been with those folks that wanted to use Plan B to force his wife to do something. Plan B is for Dazed, not his WW. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Thanks Frank!!
In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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since when is giving your honest opinion on something an attack? How about when he said: "MM has that military mentality in that he has a hard time disagreeing with Harley on anything." Sounds like an attack to me...sounds like he is saying that military people are mindless. Of course, being the dumb grunt I am...maybe I'm wrong!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> wow.
didn't know I've attacked anybody. Just my fogbusting focused at maniacal WS and psycho ow that's all.
But if dazed thinks I am attacking him by NOT AGREEING with everything then so be it.
This is more than I need right now...my plate's too full and I don't need the stress. So post email and do whatever ya want...not gonna disagree or speak my mind here b/c it gets shot down and ignored period on this thread. I am also at work and with patients so not gonna do this.
but I wish you well dazed. Want you 2 know that. Praying for you and your W..that she finally wakes up and decides cake IS NOT FOR HER..
oh..here's my last .02 on the whole sitch:
WHY ARE YOU REWARDING BAD BEHAVIORS? she still is in contact with OM...and is imho, agging it on...the visits when she leaves home, the man btw, is contacting her b/c he still thinks there's a shot...
IF WW WOULD INSTITUTE NC...AND DO IT...he'd disappear. She is not letting him know that it's over..why? b/c it's NOT over yet. still a ww.
Save designer handbags, tanning beds, and clothing for a Wife that's gonna invest in her family. Do NOT reward bad behavior...while she's not 100 percent bad all the time, she is A LONG WAY FROM BEING IN NC AND IN MARITAL RECOVERY. You're teaching her it's ok to treat you like poo, eat cake, and get rewarded for dong so! GIVE HER KUDOS WHEN SHE GOES NC...not to lure her back into marriage.
no more opinions here. I do agree with you that Dazed has not enforced boundaries well enough, which has allowed some of the cake eating. Plan A is a delicate balance between meeting ENs and enforcing boundaries. Dazed has Aced the meeting ENs part. So, I am agreeing that there are still things to do in regards to boundaries. But, what I have disagreed with you and others about is that Plan B isnt used to enforce boundaries or manipulate WSs. It has a very distinct purpose. It actually is a very dangerous move, as outlined by Dr. Harley. It could allow the WS to just keep going. Plan B is for when the BS needs to get out of the madness. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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THANK YOU FRANK!!! ON THE NOSE, MY FRIEND!!! EVERY SINGLE WORD OF IT...TRUTH!!!
KeepMovn...I would honestly have worried about your post to Dazed...
*IF* I didn't know Dazed well enough to know that he would see your post for the misinformed and simplistic bunch of random thoughts that it is...Luckily, we all know that Dazed knows the score here...
and
*IF* you would have chosen to "cherry pick" from the advice of someone other than the very steady, calm, strong, informed and credible Mortarman...You have no idea how much credibility that you lost by not only choosing who you chose, but what you chose...those two choices speak volumes of just how much you don't get it...Actually, these particular choices have made your advice quite comical to those of us who do get it...Wow, if you only knew...
and
*IF* I wasn't a FWW who has seen very clearly what you most certainly have not, and that is...THE GRACE, THE GENTLE STRENGTH, THE SELFLESSNESS, THE LOYALTY, THE HEROISM, THE TRUE AND DEEP LOVE of a BS in Plan A...I have said many times on this site, that I believe that this is the closest match to the love of Christ that a human will ever be able to emmulate here...you have NO idea what THAT is like...I've seen it up close...it is VERY REAL in my life...it would AWE you, as it would anyone...Mr. W takes my breath away with the way that he loves me now and with the way he loved me even then...in the face of my very cruel betrayal of him...You have NO IDEA the kind of respect and admiration that I have for him because of the way he did what he did...Keepmovn, what my husband did, and what Dazed is doing, IS the very definition of AMAZING GRACE...
I KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT HAD MR. W HAVE GONE BY YOUR METHODS, "WE" WOULD NOT BE...Here's how I know...Because I know that affairs have NOTHING at all to do with the OP...they also have little to do with the BS for that matter...AFFAIRS ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT THE WS AND THEIR ISSUES...Please get this KeepMvn, and internalize it...IT IS FACT...Guess what, if Mr. W had used the "Keepmvn Method", guess what would have happened? I would have gone with the OP, a much lesser man than Mr. W, but I would have gone with him, because Mr. W's actions according to your plan would have proven to me what I believed then...that he did NOT love me...that I wasn't worthy of his love...and guess what? I would NEVER have dealt with my issues...leaving me doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over...UNLESS someone I came in contact with had the strength to do a Plan A with me in mind...and if that NEVER happened, well then, I would have remained a lost soul...A VERY LOST SOUL trying to be a mother to a daughter from a broken home...Whew, I'm glad Mr. W didn't choose "Plan KeepMvn"...and one day Dazed, Mrs. Dazed and their daughter will be glad that Dazed didn't either...
Like I said, your post would have worried me IF, luckily, this time on this thread, all the *IFS* fell in line perfectly to discredit you...Next time that you give this kind of advice it could prove to be very harmful and toxic, and in my opinion, it is very irresponsible of you to dispense such advice...Oh Man, *IF* you could only see Plan A from the FWS perspective...you would NEVER question the validity of Dr. Harley's very sound program...In fact, you would be very rightfully embarrassed and feel quite reckless about giving out the underdeveloped, simplistic and ill researched advice that you do...I read one of your posts on another thread where you asked someone to just consider whether your plan would work in their life, and you expected them to do so without so much as even a third party anecdote accompanying...I ask that you do the same here with the MB program, but I'm asking you to consider it coupled with my family's personal success story as proof...My husband and I are but one of the many success stories that belong to the legacy of Dr. Harley and Marriage Builders...KeepMvn, THAT is powerful, wouldn't you agree?
Mrs. Wondering Mrs. W....thanks. That was very good!! In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Also...Mr. and Mrs. W.... Please email me as I have a off topic personal issue I would like to discuss with you. Thanks. Mortar29@yahoo.comIn His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Don't worry MM.. I've got your back brother... Mrs. W......WOW!! *IF* I wasn't a FWW who has seen very clearly what you most certainly have not, and that is...THE GRACE, THE GENTLE STRENGTH, THE SELFLESSNESS, THE LOYALTY, THE HEROISM, THE TRUE AND DEEP LOVE of a BS in Plan A...I have said many times on this site, that I believe that [color:"red"] this is the closest match to the love of Christ that a human will ever be able to emmulate here... [/color] you have NO idea what THAT is like...I've seen it up close...it is VERY REAL in my life...it would AWE you, as it would anyone...Mr. W takes my breath away with the way that he loves me now and with the way he loved me even then...in the face of my very cruel betrayal of him...You have NO IDEA the kind of respect and admiration that I have for him because of the way he did what he did...Keepmovn, what my husband did, and what Dazed is doing, IS the very definition of AMAZING GRACE... That my friend brought a tear to my eye... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> Soooo so true....unconditional.....not conditioned on whether or not the WS stops the affair... not conditioned on whether or not the WS loves you back.....not conditioned on whether or not the WORLD thinks you're a "doormat"..... just love.....that's all....just love. And FAR FAR from the "Lovingly pack her bags and sit them on the porch...change the locks and go up and down the street knocking on doors telling the neighbors your wife is a tramp advice poor Dazed was getting in the beginning here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> His wife IS NOT a psycho or a witch or an evil person...(Is she Mrs. W??) She is just a "lost soul" that has made some bad choices. Not two different people... THE SAME PERSON.... the one Dazed loves.... and he's simply loving her home. And Peach... I wasn't refering to you..geeze... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> it's not about you... it's about what Keepmovin said... And AS USUAL... he KEPT MOVIN after getting the attenion focused on HIM again.... Hit and run... no substance... just that NEED for attention.... But this time I think he helped in the sense that there was a LOT of good info here for the newbees that NEED to learn this.... GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK
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Mortarman...you've got mail!
W
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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There is more than one way to save a marriage. In my humble opinion the worst thing anyone can do is accept abuse in his or her marriage. Yet, Dazed is being encouraged to accept abusive behavior from his spouse.
Yet Dazed keeps getting abusive treatment as well as his daughter and Dazed seems to be told that he is in this position because of his treatment of his wife but that is only half right. It was her marriage too and she went outside it and still continues to do it.
We hear that she is in a “Fog”. She is addicted. Well these are all poor excuses for free will. She could make the choice not to treat him like that yet she continues. She does this because she knows that she can and there are no consequences.
What you have here is the mentality to save the marriage at any cost. There are several examples on this board that show wayward spouses who responded to plan A and were repentant for what they have done. There are also several people who had their spouses get tired of them and are now trying to get the BS back.
What we have here is clearly abusive behavior and there are no consequences. Even if she stays she has learned that abuse works and if he cannot make her happy then it is OK to cheat. She is being rewarded for her behavior.
I think Dazed should seek IC and find out why he would accept this abusive treatment from and unrepentant wife? We keep hearing he is strong but I don’t think that is the case. I think he is so scared of losing her that he will accept any kind of treatment just so she will not leave. That is no way to live a life. In my own life I lived like that for a long time and it is horrible. I did go get some counseling and got my dignity back and it feels great. Why go thru life being a Martyr.
And I keep hearing on this website that affairs end. Yet in this case it is being prolonged because there are no consequences to her actions. Just as some people are so sure Dazed is doing the right thing many of us think he is doing the wrong thing.
If he is willing to accept her treatment at any cost he can save his marriage. But it will not be a marriage worth living when you allow yourself to be treated like this.
And as for Dr. Harley I would be willing to bet he would not allow his spouse to treat him with such disrespect.
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and once Dazed pulls his wife out of the pit, neither will he. I believe it's takes great love, courage and grace to accept "abuse", ignore "abuse" and maintain one's own integrity. I am not knocking others who see it or did it different in their own lives...we all have our paths. Perhaps God knows something here. Dazed prays and Peachy prayed to the same God but got differing directions. I don't know why, but I sense Dazed is on the best path for him.
Will his boundaries be more defined next time, you bet...he ain't gonna tolerate such disrespect nor will he fight like this again for anybody. Nor will I.
Yes, he had a couple Plan B opportunities and HE choose to either pass them up or blow them. But he's persevered anyway. He could have saved himself months of "anguish" whereas I could have saved weeks if I had been tougher and stronger at the beginning. I wasn't and neither are most of the men that arrive here. But Dazed is strong today, IMO.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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There is more than one way to save a marriage. In my humble opinion the worst thing anyone can do is accept abuse in his or her marriage. Yet, Dazed is being encouraged to accept abusive behavior from his spouse. Who is saying he should accept abuse? Certainly not me!! I have told him to enforce his boundaries. Yet Dazed keeps getting abusive treatment as well as his daughter and Dazed seems to be told that he is in this position because of his treatment of his wife but that is only half right. It was her marriage too and she went outside it and still continues to do it. The abuse is 100% because of his wife! And he shouldnt allow it. We have suggested ways to enforce those boundaries. We hear that she is in a “Fog”. She is addicted. Well these are all poor excuses for free will. She could make the choice not to treat him like that yet she continues. She does this because she knows that she can and there are no consequences. She does this because there are no consequences AND she is fogged!! Again, boundaries must be defended. But boundary defense isnt Plan B!! What you have here is the mentality to save the marriage at any cost. There are several examples on this board that show wayward spouses who responded to plan A and were repentant for what they have done. There are also several people who had their spouses get tired of them and are now trying to get the BS back. Not at ANY cost!! But Jesus did say that Dazed must die for his wife. That Dazed must love his wife like Jesus loves us. Now, what does that love look like? What we have here is clearly abusive behavior and there are no consequences. Even if she stays she has learned that abuse works and if he cannot make her happy then it is OK to cheat. She is being rewarded for her behavior. I have agreed with this. But Plan B, which others seem to want to jump to in response to this, is NOT the answer! The answer is to enforce boundaries!! I think Dazed should seek IC and find out why he would accept this abusive treatment from and unrepentant wife? We keep hearing he is strong but I don’t think that is the case. I think he is so scared of losing her that he will accept any kind of treatment just so she will not leave. That is no way to live a life. In my own life I lived like that for a long time and it is horrible. I did go get some counseling and got my dignity back and it feels great. Why go thru life being a Martyr. Would you call Hosea in the Bible, who waited on his wife for 10 years, and loved her and Plan Aed her for 10 years before she came back...would you call him a martyr?? This marriage is bigger than Dazed...and he knows it!! And I keep hearing on this website that affairs end. Yet in this case it is being prolonged because there are no consequences to her actions. Just as some people are so sure Dazed is doing the right thing many of us think he is doing the wrong thing. Nope. Affairs are prolonged by manipulation by the BS. As SH told me, you cant shorten the affair, but you can lengthen it. And the primary way to do that is the BS trying to be right. Does Dazed wanna be right, or does he wants his wife back and his marriage saved? If he is willing to accept her treatment at any cost he can save his marriage. But it will not be a marriage worth living when you allow yourself to be treated like this. I beg to differ! Look at what Mrs. W says about Mr. W above!! Grace is strength! And as for Dr. Harley I would be willing to bet he would not allow his spouse to treat him with such disrespect. So I guess his son Steve doesnt understand this? In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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And as for Dr. Harley I would be willing to bet he would not allow his spouse to treat him with such disrespect. So I guess his son Steve doesnt understand this? In His arms. I don't follow what you are saying here? Are you saying Dr. Harley would allow his own wife to treat him like Dazes wife treats him? I am willing to bet Dr. Harley would not allow such treatment. No I am sorry but both people have an obligation in a marriage to treat each other with respect. And yes I think that a person needs counseling if they don't feel their spouse should treat them with resspect. To encourage people to stay together when one of them is so abusive is wrong. I would not tell a woman that is being beaten up that she should hang in there. I would tell her to get help and find out why she allows it. Yet we have people telling Daze to stay "strong". That he is showing her "love". It looks like he is showing her that abuse is what I crave and keep it coming. You can heap all the abuse you want on me and I will take it. I am sorry but I don't consider it love. We have a stalking OM who is abusive and scary. Could harm Dazed and his daughter yet nothing gets done to stop it. You cannot force someone to love you back. For this reason alone she should either commit to the marriage or be gone. This nut could hurt someone. I hope to god nothing happens to Dazed or his daughter.
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