Someone posted this on the site:

WHEN THE ONE YOU LOVE WANTS TO LEAVE by Donald R. Harvey.

There's a chapter near the end about spouses who want to come home with lists of appropriate reasons to return, and inappropriate reasons that I think is right on target. It is written with the WS being a WH, so swap the pronouns/genders for your sitch.

Appropriate/right reasons:
-Definite resolution of the motivation that prompted the departure in the first place.

-A genuine desire to work on the problems in the relationship (this includes those problems created by the separation).

-A genuine remorse for the pain caused by the separation and a recognition of the need for forgiveness.

-A genuine acceptance of the personal role played (contribution) in the deterioration of the marital relationship.

-In the case of repetitive irresponsibility, demonstrated behavioral change over time.

Daisy, thanks for your continued support and advice. You are right, M takes work, and especially after going through so much, we both have to be committed to it to make it work.

And thanks for the list of right reasons, believer. I can tell that none of the items listed has been achieved by my H. I think he is lonely, miserable, and unhappy, and might have felt that coming back home is better than remaining alone, but I do not believe he has gone through any of the things listed above.

Well - lonely and miserable is a start. They don't always want to come back for the right reasons, so take your time.

i'm so happy for you milk!

Jennifer told me that most men don't come back remorsful....
they feel that later...they come bacak because they relize that what they thought they wanted....isn't making them happy

Milk,
As I see it YOU are in the position of power. DO NOT let him come home without earning it. I agree you need to protect yourself and DS3 from more emotional torture. Put your fog proof glasses on...you know enough now to recognize and see through the fog. This is the time for negotiation. I wish a year ago when my WH wanted to try that I had been strong enough to keep him out and negotiated his return home.

He is uncomfortable, unhappy and confused. Use this to your advantage. He may not be remorseful and repentant yet but at least now he is looking for the path home.

You are in my prayers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh my gosh!
Milk I am happy for you.

I agree with the other posters who are telling you that you need a plan. Going to Church together and commitment to go to MC is a good start for a plan. Insist on it.

I would take it slow, make him put some work into it. Better to do that than to have DS3 and you hurt again.

If he is truley committed he will do thoose things.

with love and prayer for much happiness,

VTY

P.S. Gives me hope for my WS

Thanks believer, eav, confused, and VTY.

I am thinking of making an appointment with a professional marriage counselor (like SH) to seek some advice.

H called 3 times at home and 5 times on my cell, aside from the email he sent me this morning. Does he have a deadline or something? What is the rush? His behavior makes me a bit suspicious.... does he want to come home b/c (1) he is losing his job (again); (2) his apartment lease is going to end and he does not have money to renew it; (3) tax reasons....???

I will be very careful, and hopefully H himself will suggest that we go to church and MC together. Or anything he thinks might help. I certainly do not want to see him in front of TV or playing computer games all day long this time!!!

8 phonecalls in one day would make me suspicious too. If my WH ever wanted to come home, I think one of my prerequisites would be HIM talking to Harley. This experience has shaken m,y confidence in reading him, so I would want a second opinion.

Thanks to all who have taken time to give me advice yesterday. H called this morning on my cell but I could not answer. He did not leave any messages, so he just called to see if I have read his email yesterday or what I think of his proposal.

I want to reply to his email, but want to remain cautious. Here is how I am thinking of responding to his email.
----------------
H,

Thank you for your email and phone calls. I have given this a lot of thought, but feel I still need some time to think it through.

There are a few things I would like to know: what made you change your mind and what do you feel is needed to rebuild our trust and M? Do you have any plans for this to be achieved?

If you would like to discuss this in person, we can meet for dinner sometime, but I believe it is better if DS3 is not there.

Have a good day,
Milk

-----------

By the way, while I was typing this, my office phone was ringing, and have a feeling it was H. Why is he in such a rush? What are his motives???

Just looking for some advice from those who have a lot of experience....

Thank you in advance!!!

Oh, H called me again on my cell so I answered...

H: "Hi, I am just calling to see if everything is okay with you"
M: "Yea, I'm fine"
H: "Oh, okay, as long as you are okay (what, am I supposed to be dying or something???)"
M: "Yah, I am good"
H: "... 'cause probably you are in a shock (you got that right), so I just wanted to make sure you are okay"
M: "I am okay, thanks, have a good day (I said that in a cheerful way and not in a sarcastic way)"
H: "okay"

Again, I feel he is in a rush. Why? I really hope he is not having any financial troubles and just needs my financial help!

Can't say I've got much experience, but...

You've been burnt just like this before. So, this time, realize that there is NO rush for you here. The entire onus of this is on HIM...not you. HE has to prove to you that this can work out, that he's changed his ways, etc...

My suggestion would be to tell him that point blank. Very clearly and bluntly. Simply tell him that you don't trust that this is a sincere for real effort on his part...that you're definitely scared of even considering it again.

That you are NOT going to be the one doing all the work this time...that it's up to him. And that your main requirement here is that it's done slowly, with enough time and measures in place so that he can clearly SHOW you what's changed...not just tell you.

Tell him that you are NOT going to 'set criteria' this time. HE has to figure out what he needs to do to rebuild this time. It's time he put himself in YOUR shoes for a while, and start thinking about what it's going to take for reconciliation to be considered...let alone accomplished.

If he balks, doesn't step up to the plate, whatever...tell him that and walk away. Realize that this is NOT on you at this point...if he's truly wanting to do this, then he's gonna have to do it. Don't make it impossible for him, but DO NOT accept anything less than his total commitment to make it happen.

Just my thoughts.

So are you OK? LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It sounds like to me that he can't believe you didn't rush over to his place and help him pack!!

WH:"I thought milk would be welcoming me with open arms and thrilled at the chance of me coming home! She probably didn't get my message. Maybe she misunderstood. Maybe she is in SHOCK and freaking out. I better call her a zillion times just to be sure!"

I think your email response was good. Encouraging but realistic. I agree go slow there is no rush! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I would definitely ask him to agree to an individual session with Steve Harley. Tell him that you will then schedule your own session with Steve to get Steve's help with your Recovery. Be willing to schedule his session with Steve yourself. I think such a plan would be worth it's weight in GOLD....

Again, thanks everyone for your support and advice. I am very grateful that I found this site. And for that, I thank my girlfriend so much - she led me to this website. Thank you M, if you are reading this!!

H just emailed me:
"Instead of taking DS3 out tonight why don’t we have dinner again like we did last time. I can get some noodles

What do you think
H"

I liked your analysis, confused. That might be it. H does not understand why I am not crying kneeing down saying "thank God, you brough my dear husband back, oh my goodness, H, I love you so much and I have always dream about this moment..., WELCOME HOME SWEETIE".

Of course I thought it would be like that too, 10 months ago. If H ever said anything like he is saying now 10 months ago, I would be like "I'll be there to help you pack!".

Anyhow, tonight DS3 has his Karate class so I won't be able to do dinner with H anyway. Should I just tell him that tonight won't work? Should I also send him the email about us?

For me personally, I would not encourage any house playing right now. DS is so young and is bound to get his hopes up and stuff. I would need to feel very comfortable about WH's intentions before I got DS used to the idea.

Maybe its kinda like dating a new guy, you would want to get to know them pretty well before introducing him to the kids. I think you need more info from WH. He seems to think he is just going to slide back in, nice and easy.

Is this saying what I think it is saying? Don't you think that he is treating you disrespectfully?

What did you think about my suggestion regarding Steve Harley?

Your WH is not sounding serious enough to me..

This is not like.."Let's have some fun and games.."

Thanks Jean and Mimi.

That's what I was thinking and I am glad you feel the same way about involving DS3. I do not want him to have hopes yet.

And Mimi, I definitely want H to have some sessions alone as well as together with a professional coach like SH.

H sounds too casual, doesn't he. I do not want to sound like a controlling and cold b****, but I do want to make a point that I do not want DS3 to be involved.

How about if I reply to his email by saying:
"DS3 has his class tonight and we will be late, so it will not work for us. If we are going to have dinner, I do not think DS3 should be present yet at this point".

Does this sound okay?

or should I just say "we cannot have dinner tonight because DS3 has a class tonight"?

I would recommend asking him these questions that Jean suggested.... in a PHONE CONVERSATION and then come back and share his answers with us...

1. Why do you want to work on the marriage (and for the record, I don't love the word 'try', you are committed or you are not)

2. WH, what is YOUR plan to recover our marriage.

Dating and fun should come after he SERIOUSLY answers these questions....

OK?