I agree, you did great, Milk.



LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sad but true. He's a piece of work!

Take your time to see how your H may or may not evolve and see if YOU really want to give your M another chance with this man. Since your H is so much like mine, let me say this from my own experience: Recovery is HARD. Yes, he's gotta realize he has A LOT to work on, but you also have some tough things to think through, including whether or not you will be able to respect your H again like you did in the early stage of your relationship.

No rush to come to any conclusion at this point. Give yourself huge kudos!

Thank you everyone for your support and feedback! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was not happy the way H acted last night at all. But in a way, that might be better than showing me fake attitude to make me believe he is sincere..., only to find out later that he is not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bellevue, your raised a very good yet hard to answer question.


Because honestly, if that was a blind date, I would never want to see him again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> There were no clicks, sparks, gentleness, sweetness, nothing. Also he acted selfishly. No, I would not want him to come in my or DS3's life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That's a sad thing to say, but at this point, that's true.

Now onto a little UPDATE:
This weekend is H's turn to have DS3. Usually he comes at around 10am, but since DS3 did not go to bed early last night (b/c after dinner I had to go to my friend's house to pick him up, and we did not get home till after 11pm), I told H that I would just call him when DS3 wakes up and gets ready for the day.

This morning after DS3 and I had breakfast, he insisted that he wanted to ride his car. It was a beautiful day today (it was in the 60's!), and we did not even need a coat! So I said okay, and we went outside and played together. I called H from my cell outside to let him know that we will be outside. He sounded like he just woke up. He said he would shower now and asked for some time. I said okay.

Then he asked "...so why don't I bring over the chicken and we can have lunch together there."

He is NOT hearing what I am saying! I emailed him only a few days ago saying that I rather meet him w/o DS3 b/c I do not want him to raise his hopes up. H agreed - or so I thought he did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Guess not.

So I said "well, we just ate, so I am not hungry. Why don't you keep the chicken for tonight so that you can cook for DS3?"

H said "yeah, sure, I can do that, but... So you have a plan?"

Actually, I did not. Usually I try to fill my schedule when I do not have DS3, but for once, I did not make any plans this weekend. But hey, I do not have to let H know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

So I said "Yeah, kind of". And H said "Oh..., okay, well I will be there then".

Then about an hour later (he lives about 20 minutes away), he showed up. I was looking after DS3 and our neighbor's daughter (she and DS3 play together a lot - they are 1 1/2 year apart) when he showed up. He kissed DS3 and surprisingly, he kissed the girl as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> He hasn't really showed his emotions like that in a while... Strange.

Then he came over to me, and put his arm around my back and said "Look, Milk, I want to do this right. I want this to work". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

So this was better than any of his behaviors I got last night. Maybe he thought I might be meeting with a guy today and that made him worried? Possibly, but whatever the reason is, if he felt he needed to give me more than "I don't know if it's going to work but do you want to try?" kind of comment, that's good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So I felt good, but I am still cautious. I ended up spending the whole day with my neighbor (we went to lunch and shopping - then we came back and watched two movies. It was fun.), but in the meantime, H never called me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Maybe he interpreted this as a power game and did not like how the power has shifted to my side this morning and by not calling me, wanted to show me he is still in charge? Very possible.

But I am not going to bite his bait. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> That's an empty bait. If he plays that kind of game AFTER over a year of pushing me away, thinking that he is going to win, then he is out of his mind. What he did to his family was so wrong and there should not be any more game for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

But the whole time he was here this morning (he was taking his time, and came inside the house when I told DS3 to go potty before leaving. He asked if he could have some coffee (I made fresh coffee that morning and there was still some left in the pot), so I said "sure, do you want to put it in a travel cup so that you can take it with you? You can borrow one of these.", inplying that he was not going to stay until he finishes his coffee. But I said it in a very light, lively and casual way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As they are leaving, H asked me "what are you doing tomorrow?"
Me: "I'm going to church in the morning."
H: "Okay, do you want to meet for lunch?"
M: "Um...."
H: "Well, give me a call if you want to meet for lunch or something."
M: "Okay."

And they left.

I am just worried how long H can sustain his "reconciliation" mode. If it does not last, then that's the end of the story. I am not going to chase after him anymore. Sure it will make me sad, b/c this is like a tease. But hopefully this will not affect me like before - and I know it won't. I survived this long and actually began to enjoy my life w/o H, so I just need to go back to that mode again. And I know this time it will be easier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will take my time to see if H means business. If anything, he should have suggested to come to church with me instead of to meet for lunch...

Do you guys think I should meet him for lunch tomorrow? But that means DS3 will be there, b/c H's parents are still in Florida and I do not think he has any friends who can watch DS3.

From what you wrote, it doesn't seem like he's really serious or focussed on reconciliation. He would allow it if you did the work. He sounds lazy.

But honestly, at this point he should be courting you and making a list of what he would do to win you back. Like he's some kind of great prize, all he needs to do is say he's willing to go home again if you will be grateful enough. You are the prize, you and the family, the home, the life he abandoned. He just left you all on the playground in a sandbox, like you were worth nothing. Like you'd be there waiting if he changed his mind.

When you went into the restaurant, he didn't even hold the door for you. He treated you with no reverence or regard. I don't think he's really "gotten" it yet.

Milk-
Sounds like you are thinking things through well, and being
appropriately cautious. Can't really tell what WH's thoughts
or motives are at this point, but at least he's showing
interest and it's probably worth considering as long as
you keep things at your pace, comfort level, and your
boundaries in place.
In the short time it seemed like my WH and I were making
some progress, I did realize it was going to be hard work
and take a lot of time, not the big "relief" that it seems
like it should be when they say they might want to work on
things.
Things are not going well here now so it's been a tough
weekend, but today I am concentrating on some "spring
cleaning" and just treating myself well. Will update on
my post-
Slammed

Thank you bellevue and slammed. Bellevue, I agree with you. I do not think H is really serious or focussed on reconclilation. It's all about his "convenience". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I know, we have to start somewhere, and heard that this is not uncommon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> WS's often do not come home remorseful. Even then, this must be my personality, but I just cannot accept that very easily. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

BUT I am making some changes and improvement on my end. If he was behaving this way a year ago, I am very sure I would have demanded that he makes every possible change immediately and made sure to let him know HOW MUCH hurt and damage he has caused. I did not know anything about addictions, depression or midlife crisis, and that is I am sure how I would have handled the situation, thinking I have the right to act that way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now, I learned that these "straight forward" logics do not work at all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> They have their own beliefs, and in their mind, they were the poor little victims. I do not agree with that, but now I learned that I do not have to necessarily "let H know" that I am disagreeing with his ideas in a harsh way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I went to church this morning and came back before noon. I noticed H called twice this morning while I was gone. I don't know why he did not try to call me on my cell. He did not leave any messages, I just knew from the record (from the phone and also b/c I have a broadband phone I can check all the incoming and outgoing calls on the internet) that he called.

I called him back, and left him a message saying that I just came back from church. Did not say anything about the lunch.

He later called me back. Did not say anything about the lunch. He said he had to go wash his bedsheet this morning b/c DS3 wet the bed last night. So now I am thinking maybe he just called this morning needing my help or something, not for lunch. Here is why I feel this way.

Then he asked what I was doing so I said I need to run some errands. He said oh okay...., then when I was about to hang up, he asked

H: "So when can I move back in?"
M: "Huh?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
H: "Can I move back in?"
M: "H, we talked about this, and we wants to take this slowly, right?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
H: "Yeah, I know"

Then we talked a bit more about this and that, and then

M: "Okay, then,..."
H: "So when? When can I move back?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
M: "H,... (I almost wanted to ask if he is so financially constrained that he needs help desperately but did not say anything) I thought you agreed that we'll go slow. We have to wait and see" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
H: "Okay"

See, I do not think H understands. He is just way too casual. He must have some big problems and needs financial help very badly.

Again, if this happened a year ago, I would have said to him "this is called a consequence!", but I tried to remain calm and polite. No matter what happens in the end, there is no need for me to get nasty, just b/c he was nasty.... So I am controlling my temper and urge to say something back right in his face... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

But I feel uncomfortable. I can't believe H thinks he can just move back in!!! He really can't hear what I am saying... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hi Milk,
Your WH sure does seem to be on a "fast track" to try to
return things to "normal", and does seem like finances
could be a motivating factor here. Since he said things
at work weren't going so well, do you think he may be
afraid he is going to lose his job ?
I think you handled it well- if you keep showing that your
boundaries are consistent, maybe he will either get it into
his head that he's really going to have to work and show
more effort at this, or he will change his mind and back
off on the whole reconciliation (if he's not sincere).

Thanks for your thoughts on my post. I'll update there
again in a minute
Slammed

Milk.....
You are really doing good.

I think what is needed here is a good strategy. I would hope some of the veterans here would give you some good pointers on how to procede with recovery here.....

You are handeling yourself very well. I think your H is not fully on board at all. I still say, he left, found that it was not going to be the way he thought and wants to move back like nothing has happened and you should be thanking your lucky stars that he is back. I tell you milk, he is shocked! He cannot believe that his bags are not at your house yet.

In my opinion you should talk to the Harleys. It is suggested here that the WS talks to S.H. when they are ready to commit to recovery to see just how willing and committed they are.

You need to see this as well. Have him talk to S.H. after you talk to him. I know, money is an issue, but think of all the heart ache this will save you.

I think SH will be able to see through him more.

I think you need some plan, so that you tell him this plan and he sees that you will not play any games with him. I know you said that you don't want to push him and scare him off. But MILK, you will not be scaring him off. If he is committed to recovery YOU cannot scare him off by showing him the path! If he is not committed to recovery then YOU need to know that. Some discussion about a concrete plan needs to take place.....

I hope someone else comes along with suggestions about this concrete plan. I have no experience in this, so I am just giving my 2 cents based on what I would do if I was in your situation.

you are doing good.....don't let him intimidate you! He really things he can move out and move like it is no big deal. Sheesh.

Daisy

I second the ladies that you're doing a great job keeping the boundaries with H. I also agree that it's a good idea to have H talk to SH to see if he's really sincere about recovery...if H agrees and does talk to SH and SH thinks he is, then he can come home. From what H has said, though, it seems to me that he only wants to come home so he can be unemployed while looking for a new job. Don't let him sway you and let him come home prematurely.

Another thing I agree with the ladies is that you may also want to talk with SH to develop a plan of your own. Your H is predictable in a way, but he can also be charming and manipulative. Having a guide through this may be helpful to you.

But what's with H's urgency to have chicken for lunch or dinner with you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Does he want to get something from the house and run? I'm sorry but I'm so fed up with your H's nonsense!

hopeful....

I also think that there is a lot of nonsense...but then the WS can sure come up with all sorts!

Milk,
A plan is needed here....I am worried he may just be choosing to come home temporary due to things not working out outthere.....I just don't hear "commitment to recovery" coming from your WH.....

Daisy

Thanks slammed, daisy, and hopeful. I agree with all of you completely. I have to have my own plan and I want H to speak to SH.

An interesting thing just happened. I finished cooking, and was doing some dishes. Then I noticed my faucet just broke (it felt like it got 'stuck' and the lever won't go down to shut off the water)!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> The water kept running, so I went underneath the sink, but for some reason even after turning off the valve, the water was not stopping. Oh gosh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

At this point I called my BIL who is quite handy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> He was suggesting something I could try over the phone (I was using my cell phone, and then my home phone rang. It was H. I answered, he said DS3 wanted to speak to me so they were calling. I told him

M: "H, can I call you back? My faucet just broke and I cannot stop the water. BIL is on the line".
H: "What? The faucet broke? Okay, I will let you go".

Then I tried this and that, and in the end I figured out why the water was not stopping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will most likely need a new faucet and replace the broken one, but at least I could stop the water in the kitchen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> For now, until the faucet gets fixed, I will have to control the water using the valve underneath the sink... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

After all the drama was over, I called H back.

M: "Hi"
H: "So did BIL fix it?"
M: "Well he could not come over so he helped me over the phone and we figured it out. I mean, the faucet is probably broken but at least the water is not running anymore".
H: "Oh, okay, what happened?"
M: "I don't know, it just happened. I think our water is pretty hard and the scum was accumulating and making the lever harder and harder. I need to call the plumber".
H: "Yeah, you can call the plumber".
M: "Although he is probably going to come to take a look at it and will tell me to get a new one anyway, and I will still have to go get one and call back someone to install it, so I might as well just go ahead and get the new one handy".
H: "Yeah, you can ask the plumber to install it or, actually installation should not be too difficult, and maybe you can ask BIL".

When he said this, I was secretly disappointed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> Even my guy friend would have said he would come over tonight to give me a hand had I called him for help. H is technically still my H, and is wanting to move back! Why didn't he offer any help? But I did not say anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Then he said "or I can come over to take a look at it next weekend".

Next weekend? Why can't he come sooner? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Maybe because he is not a handy guy and did not think the limited amount of time during the weeknight would not be sufficient for him to fix it or install the new one? That's possible, but again, I was secretly disappointed. Maybe because I still have this belief that if I were in his shoes wanting to come home, I would try to offer help at every possible opportunity..., which I did after H moved out - when he was sick, I was going to make some soup and come over but he said not to come... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So I am more convinced that this is all based on H's convenience... Or maybe I should give him the benefit of doubt that he was just being H, meaning that he was being lazy... I had this conversation with H's brother (not the BIL who just helped me over the phone).

When we had a lot of snowfalls this winter, some of my guy friends came over to shovel my driveway (I did not ask, they just came over). I was disappointed and hurt that H did not even offer any help at all. Even though at that time H was still pretty adamant that D was the only way to go, I felt if he really cared about his son, he would have come over to shovel so that I could take out my car. I did not say anything to H though.

But I did speak to H's older brother about this one time and when I told him how I was hurt and disappointed, he said
"Well, though, I must admit that I would probably not want to shovel the snow either, even if I were living there".

See, laziness runs in his family, unfortunately... So what I meant above is that it's possible that EVEN IF H was living with us, he would not have done anything until the weekend... How funny though, even though I am being "fair" by giving him the benefit of doubt, this scenario is not making me feel any better... Frankly I am not sure which excuse is better - being lazy or not wanting to help me b/c he is still mad at me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

milk,

Does part of your plan include getting the lazy bug out of him? lol

If this is really a personality trait of his, are you willing to live with it from here on out? It sucks, but what are you willing to trade to have your H back in the house? It seems to me he is just doing bare minimum and expecting loads from you. I hope the scales balance out eventually!

Good luck, stay sharp!
JJ

Thanks JJ, your post made me laugh.

Honestly, his laziness irritates me a lot. That was the biggest reason we faught before (= I nagged him and he did not like that at all, obviously...). He is the kind of guy who used to say things like "let's not have any tress in the yard so that I do not have to clean the gutter", "let's move to a condo so that we do not have to do any yard work", "I just do not have patience to put my dirty clothes in the laundry basket (= leaving dirty clothes all over on the floor)", etc. He got the dog but never wanted to walk him. I always had to push him saying "who wanted to get the dog? You have to be responsible!". Again, that was my "nagging" to him...

But we were happily married before, and he had sweetness to offer. We had a beautiful son together too. These things made up for his shortcomings. But now, he moved out, filed for D, and frankly I am not sure if I will have the patience. I do not have the same feelings for him anymore, that's the truth, unfortunately. If he continues to be lazy while expecting me to change a whole a lot, I will be feeling like getting a really bad deal, to be honest.

My friends believe that people like my H will never change. Sadly now I started to believe their theories...

He knows he is lazy. His best buddy from college told me that "I've never seen anyone who is lazier than your H". Right before H moved out (when he had one of those false recoveries), he even said to me "okay, I have to change. I have to be a different H. I cannot be lazy."

I know, H still went to get his MBA, so people may ask "how can he be so lazy if he can study hard?", but even then he was doing the bare minimum. He got his degree just b/c his dad expected him to get one. In fact, one of H's complaints was that "Milk, you were always studying when we were going through our MBA courses. We never spent time together". But to me, we both decided to go for it so I wanted to do my best. Also, I was always studying at home, so it was not like we were physically separated! He was watching TV and I was reading...

I wish there was a special med H could use... What should I do? All of my friends and family are now telling me that H would never change and it's better off if we end up D. Well, a part of that is b/c I did NOT have an option of reconciliation, they wanted me to believe this was actually better for me. I haven't told them about H's request for reconciliation yet. I am not going to tell them for a while.

I do not know what I should do. When I think of DS3, though, I really want us to stay together. But I do not think H will change...

Milk

Milkshake-

A couple of observations.

First...there is a proverb (don't remember who said it or when, but it's VERY true!) that I think you should consider when it comes to your H's personality traits.

"Men marry a woman, hoping she'll never change...but she always will. Women marry a man hoping that he WILL change...but he never does."

You can't change him, and cannot expect that his personality is going to radically alter if he comes back. You CAN make clear to him what you expect from him BEFORE you accept him back...which leads to my next observation.

When he asks you a blunt question, like "When can I move back in?", don't give a vague response. Give a clear one.

"You can move back in after we have BOTH made the choice to reconcile this marriage.".

And honestly, if there are areas that you are NOT seeing sufficient 'change' in him to make you feel comfortable with reconciling...TELL HIM UP FRONT. Tell him that this is NOT all about you changing...that there are areas that BOTH of you need to work on. If you feel that he needs to acknowledge what he's done before he can come back...tell him that. If you feel that having a steady, safe job is a requirement, tell him so. If you feel that you're going to need to see him in MC for six months( or three months, or whatever) BEFORE you would consider moving back together, tell him so.

You have nothing to lose at this point by being up front about what you want/need/expect. The WORST that will happen is that you'll end up going on the way that things have gone up until he asked you about working things out again. See, this time YOU have the power...use it to make sure that the marriage has a good chance of success BEFORE you risk anything by moving forward.

Just my thoughts...good luck to you friend!

Owl, thanks for your reply. I like your idea of letting H know the areas I want him to work on. He can tell me the areas he wants me to improve as well.

I love the proverb!! Love it! So true... Or, maybe it's more like we all change in some areas and we do not change in certain areas, but men tend to focus on the areas they do not want women to change (e.g., appearance, sex, etc.) whereas women focus on areas such as men's financial situation, responsibility (= helping around the house), etc. And these are hard areas NOT to change or TO change...

H called this morning. He told me about his drop-off of DS3 and then asked me about the faucet. I told him I was looking at the website to see how much the new faucet would cost. He said he would help me pay for it, so I said "but the cheapest one costs only $59 so it's not a big deal", and he said "don't get the cheap one, get the nice one - if you are letting me move back in".

Unfortunately, I did not read your post before H called and that might have been a good opportunity to address the issue of my boundaries, but I was just shocked how he casually sneak in his condition! He agreed that we take things slowly less than a week ago. H is pushing this (his moving back) every day now. What's the rush? Must be his financial issues.

Next time I will tell him what I need to see before I can consider seriously about his moving back in. Of course he can do the same. I want us to go see MC BEFORE he moves back in. I mean, his moving back in, to me, means that we BOTH agree that we are going to try to reconcile. That is a big step, and I do not want to take is lightly.

Thanks for your suggestions, Owl.

Milk

Good morning, Milk-
I think Owl's suggestion of giving very clear ideas is
great, and I like the example he gives:
WH- "When can I move back in ?"
Milk- "You can move back after we BOTH have made the choice
to reconcile this marriage".
(You could also add any other particulars you want to make
clear as your conditions, such as counseling, church, keeping DS3 out of the middle, taking it slow, etc.)

It definitely should make it clear to WH that you are not
desperate to get back with him, and have hesitation about
his motives, sincerity, and the effort he will make.
If he seems to back off after realizing you aren't going to
just let him come back and make no effort, you will know
his motives might have only been "lukewarm" and for his
convenience or due to his financial problems.
If he does start to show some effort and follows through
with your requests, then that would show some "good faith"
and probably make you feel much more comfortable about
proceeding.

Don't know your financial situation, but does WH think that
him moving back would allow him a "free" ride as far as
him not having to contribute to pay mortgage, utilities,
phone, groceries, and other expenses ? If he does come
back, you'd probably want to make this very clear and outline a detailed plan about how to handle it all.

Thanks for your support and ideas on my post, by the way..
Slammed

Or you could phrase it "When we BOTH believe that this will work out.".

Regardless, the idea is to make it clear to him that YOU aren't ready for him to move in, and that he needs to start working on reassuring you that he's changed enough for you to accept him back.

I think that's the key thing...he needs to understand that while HE might be ready to come back, it doesn't follow that YOU are. And that even when/if it gets to a point where you BOTH want it, it still means that BOTH of you have to work for it...and you're not willing to do all the work yourself.

Thanks for more suggestions, Slammed and Owl. I need to be up front with him now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I don't know how his mind works...well, actually I can guess. He is probably thinking

"Milk made me miserable and I needed to get out of the situation. I am glad I did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I just did what I needed to do, so Milk cannot make me feel guilty for that and even though I know she expects an apology, I won't give one, b/c I have done nothing wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well now I am tired of being alone with no money. I am not that happy. Guess I will go back. What other options do I have? I might be losing my job soon and I don't want to renew my lease. My parents or sisters are not taking me back, so I'll go back to Milk.

My filing for divorce should have scared her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> to a point that hopefully she will be nicer and will not demand too much from me anymore. I want my easy life back. If she starts making things difficult again, I can leave again."

Something like that, I am sure. H is not an evil person, but is extremely selfish and immature. So this is the kind of his thinking pattern in the past. He'll do whatever he wants, even though he knew I would not have liked it - for him, as long as he could "hide" things from me, it's okay. He does not think lying is bad - he thinks he needs to lie in order to survive.

I do not know how he thinks now, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> but it does not look like he has changed much. When he was arrested in June 2004, he did become humble and said "I'm a compulsive liar". But that did not last too long.

And the way he is acting...., unfortunately tells me this is just another one of those fake moments. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I need to tell him I am not ready.

Hard to know exactly how things will "go", but you are
doing all you can to protect you and DS3 and to take
things at your own pace, and handling it very well, I
think.

So much of your WH and my WH sound alike, as far as the
obsessive-compulsive disorder traits, being lazy, and the
lying. My WH is actually very hard-working when it comes to
his job or any task he is determined to accomplish, but
lazy when it comes to things around the house.
I think much of it was the example he had at home, growing
up. The first time I was at his parent's house, I was very
shocked to see that his Mom did ALL the housework, laundry,
cooking, clean-up, etc while everyone else just sat around
and was "waited on". This was much different than my family
as us kids helped with dishes, had chores to do, put our
dirty dishes in the dishwasher, folded and put away our
clean clothes, etc. His family was very "traditional" with
his Mom doing all the "women" jobs, and his Dad doing the
"man" jobs like working in the yard and keeping up the cars.
Doesn't "fly" with me, and I've always let WH know that, but
he's not changed too much.

I also think his habit of lying came from his upbringing.
(but this is a learned behavior and a habit, so can be
changed) His family had very poor communication skills and
seemed like no one ever wanted to "rock the boat" by being
upset, or mad. I think he learned to always be agreeable and
say what he thought people wanted to hear, which has now
become such a habit that he doesn't even realize he does it.
You'd think with all that practice he'd be better at it,
but actually is a pretty poor liar !

Slammed

Hi Slammed, thanks for your reply and update.

Not much to update on my end today... I went out to get a new kitchen faucet yesterday and am going to have my handy friend help me install it. But when I was at the store last night, I was adviced that it's possible that only a part under the lever went bad and if that is the case, I can just order the part to fix it, and can return what I purchased yesterday.

I had my neighbor and her daughter over last night. Then H called. He usually asks for DS3 immediately, but he asked about the faucet. Hmm, maybe he is trying to give me a different impression? I told him I bought the new one but the faucet I thought was totally broken might be fixable. Then he overheard the noise in the background and said "okay, it sounds like you guys are busy so I will let you go". He did not even ask for DS3!! So I offered "do you want to speak to DS3?" So he did, but DS3 was too busy playing with his friend and did not say much.

At least he is more pleasant to speak to now, and that itself is a big improvement. Even if we cannot reconcile, I hope he will maintain this attitude.

Just got a call from H. He said he spoke to his lawyer and asked to reverse the restraining order he put on me and to stop the D process.

I am very glad to see that he took some real "actions" instead of just wanting to move back in.

Then we talked a little more. I told him that I still do not feel comfotable about our reconciliation, but at the same time told him that there are many things I did wrong during our marriage which I can improve. He said he has many things he needs to address as well.

I asked him when he smoked pot the last time, and he said June 2004 (when he was arrested). I asked him about the porn, and that, it sounds like he still watches, but he said it's not DVDs, he watches some "pictures", but not much. Hmmm, this is probably going to take some more work, but hopefully he is telling me the truth.

I asked him once again what has changed now that he wants to try again. He said he "needed to get away b/c he could not focus and did not feel that I was listening". Now he realized that he did not give our M a second chance and he wants to try b/c he loves DS3 so much. I asked him why he needed to file the D papers, and to that he replied "because that was the right thing to do at that time". Also he said he is still on ADs and that he thinks he will have to be on the meds for quite some time.

Then I heard people were coming back from lunch in his office so we ended our conversation.

I feel we still have a lot to deal with in terms of our emotional and his mental issues, but at least he did the right thing - talking to his lawyer w/o having me asking for it, and now I feel I may allow myself to have some hope.

By the way, while I was typing this, H sent me an email saying that he had to run to a meeting but we can talk more on the phone tonight. I said sounds good.