So we have two scenarios: (1) Wife who wants a vacation no matter what her husband says with or without him. (2) A husband who self-admittedly works 70 hour weeks all year round and says he can not leave his job for a vacation.

From this we choose to assume she is having an affair? People - calm down! Affairs are serious. Even the THOUGHT of an affair can be devastating to a relationship.

My understanding of your posts is that your wife is going on a cruise with or without you. She has not told you that you can not go but only that she will go irrespective of you going with her. So to sum up:
Your wife will go on a cruise.
She will go without you.
She has not said you can not go only that she will go whether you come along or not.
She has not said you can not come along too.

There are definitely issues in your marriage. And yes – an affair COULD be an issue but just maybe you might grab on to the affair possibility because that more or less places the cause for the problem right in your wife’s lap.

Some months ago I posted a problem here on MB. I did get a lot of good advice but also a lot of well intentioned “she’s having an affair” and yes all the red flags were there. After monitoring my wife, using GPS and recorders I discovered our problem and it was not an affair. In retrospect I think my period of paranoia did nothing constructive for me or my marriage. Do your research but do not assume she is having an affair. It is just one possibility of several.

Look at the point Aussiewife makes: if she denies you can’t believe her. If she admits you feel bad. It’s a lose/lose situation.

Thanks!
That is exactly what I needed . Several ideas to go on. I am at tht tunnel vision point AND that ain't good!
Now I can see a few possibilities , they are all not terrible as I had feared.
Now I can do some snooping. But remember Friday Is her turn to play her cards. so I need the fast tract to gather facts . I have the key board thing .
My eyes are wide open. Should not be . I wake up at night several times & have CRUISE TERRORS!!
some times they last for a couple hours.
dang, I don't know how you guys can keep up with wife troubles.
I must drive you crazy.
Now whats my next step ??
( OH, A little note, this woman is happy smiling & in a better mood than she has been for years, This all seemed to start a day or two after this first came up!whats that all about? Me I Feel like warmed over death she is happy)

**TOOL**

TTM, I read your thread with interest. You see, I am the BS in my family but my CH is a workaholic like you. For years, I have taken trips separately from my H. I never cheated on him during any of these trips. Sometimes, I took one or more of our children. Sometimes, I'd go by myself.

Why?

Throughout the years, there would be so many times I'd try to arrange a vacation, trip, or even weekend away for our family and my H would shoot it down. He's one of those 24/7 companyman kind of guys. Always busy. Always at work. About the only way I could get him on vacation was to ask his folks to come with us. Sometimes, that wouldn't even do the trick. Even when he had banked 8 weeks worth of vacation days and couldn't get any more, he still refused to go on vacation. It was so frustrating. Like beating my head against the wall.

I love to travel. Just the thought of traveling somewhere makes my heart rise up in my chest. (Does that sound a bit like your W?) The whole world looks brighter if I have a trip in the offing. In my case, it was either go by myself or don't go at all. I found it very depressing that my H would not spare the time to be with me OR our children. When he did come with us, we'd find him in a phone booth trying to call work or check his messages. That pizzed off the entire family.

Invest the time in your W. Maybe she thinks you wouldn't be much fun on the trip. That you would just work, work, work. Perhaps you have to show that you will be a good companion. Will you do the stupid games, dress up for fancy dinners at midnight, sit by the pool and hold your own in conversation with a variety of people? Would it be "all work and no play makes Toolman a dull boy"?

As a side note, one of the ways I could get to travel with my H was to go with him on business trips. It's ironic that on the one extended trip that I did not accompany him on, he started the A that landed us in the mess we are in.

p.s. there are many other fun vacations besides a cruise. I've never been or have wanted to go on a cruise but have lots of other great ideas. Tell her you want to wisk her away to romantic Hawaii. Go to an all-inclusive resort in Jamaica. Surprise her with something wonderful. Think about it.

Thanks,
we have been on nice trips. places like Savannah Ga.,
Pannama city beach fla.'
Moui Hi.
Pensylvania. To just see the fall leaves,
arkansas . Just because.
Many , Many More mostly different. & really fun.
Kids have left. We are empty nesters. , I thought of this while working. I made an offer to tke her to London for a week. br. air had great deals on round trip. , I like that so I cn spend more when we get where we are headed. + I could UP GRADE the seats. To 1st class cause the coach is NO place to sleep on a red eye flight with the wife . After all you want her happy when y'all land . She dropped the suggestion With out as much as a NO - YES - MAYBE!
I mentioned it 3 or 4 times . But NILL RESPONCE.
I might have blown it I& never known it
the long hours & work is a family thing that has
always been here & is not an issue ( I don't believe any way)
My fears is that I have Given HER just enough rope To go off And hang "ME"!with this emmotiomal thing ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I come off as a woosie , But That could not be true? could it?

I'm an old army guy . self employed ., might just be the sunami that just hit the old toolman. OR may be I just adore my wife! !
what next? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Why wait til Friday to sit and discuss this further.

And...when you talk about this...make it a DISCUSSION...not a fight or argument.

Personally, if you are THAT concerned about the whole thing, and you've clearly communicated to her what your worries and concerns are and she still intends on going, then I think that you've got a few months between now and then to get a contingency plan in place to ensure that your business is covered while you're gone on a cruise with her. This isn't rocket science...

Just tell her that you've decided that going on a cruise with her is more important than your job. Follow some of the suggestions for making sure that you've got things covered for the time of the trip, and make it happen. Ask your wife to go ahead and get a room for the TWO of you.

No reason to wait til Friday for this.

You are right about no reason to wait.
But just the same, I want to see how early in the day fri. I get the low down. 08:00 am or late pm or at all.
ya know maybe it was foregotten all together? you see I don't know. NOT a peep from the w sence "MY FRIDAY"!
also I wish to just see what is said.
maybe I can understand why the lack of concern( All of a sudden too) just like turning a light switch on & off on that -- scarry--
Then I will use the , I WILL LIKE TO GO WITH YOU, As "MY" Last & only card
Really I NEED to wait!! THIS IS JUST FOR MY PIECE OF MIND! Just to gather those few scraps of info.

Bump for the Toolman.. How you doin?

Thanks for asking,
this is thursday am.
W seems unnaturally agreeable & great mood. I have came to the realisation that I may BE kicked to the curb.
so being a problem solver type person, I am looking far ahead(past) friday. If all goes ok I will stay on, but with an empty spot forever( prefer that than the curb).
Or start fron scratch.
I hate to bring this up. I caught wife in a relationship decades ag. & never let on . so may be up to it again

Toolman

having discovered your w in a previous affair, what makes you think it hasn't, is not happening again? I'm sure this has been in the back of your mind for someyears probably and why you came here.

You see when you dont confront these sort of things it just sets both of you up for issues down the track , for you thats now.
Of course we know that these days, and the way you do it is also very important. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

I suppose you are thinking that by waiting you give your w the opportunity to be honest with you tomorrow? I do hope she is and I do hope its NOT bad news as far as an affair.
But better honest than lied to.

Just keep cool until then, you know YOU need to change your lifestyle in any event. If bad news remember the advice you got here so far and make sure you come back for more advice even if it means you say you have to think about what she has told you for a while. Some great experience here from many who have been through the mill to help you out.

ALL THE BEST

well I am just hopeing for the best. I really did not want to hear or want to have the heart ache of her having an affair way back then 22 years ago and I never said any thing even though it was hard on me. I really think that it is past.
also, Changing my life style seems not to be an issue( work wise any way). Because we have Many slow times when I can just close up & go ., those times are well known.And we use them often.
so I am hoping for the best .. But I smell a rat.

Ok,
It's sat. On friday morning. w went & turned the puter on early printef out 2 sheets then came to the bedroom I was still in the sack. Gave me the sheets & said that she was going to the gym.just like every day.
I got up . DID NOT READ THE NOTE. I wanted to read it with her just as I had spoken to her about my feelings a week ago fgace to face.
W. Returns, The note addresed almost all my concerns, wonderful what a week if thinking can do. she said that if I felt so strongly about the trip it would be cancelled , in fact it was done . that she would have a diferent feeling for me because of it( my exact words!).
I was told that I was "playing dirty to get my way"., I was forcing her to change her plans referance to "crushed inside feeling"(thats kinda dirty too)
The statement that SHE GAVE IN ON THIS ONE ,may imply that there may be more? or is that covering the tracks? maybe you can help see whats up.
well I was ready to GO with her. she said that she would not go no matter what, so I never offered.
This is the first experiance I have ever had on the end of the stick that got its way., Feels funny -- really not that good.Seems that a person gets used to recieving pleasure by giving in ,or giving pleasure to others , is easy to get used to, A real rush for us .
now i really need some advice on what to do, or how to act being on the other end .. this is SOOooo confusing!
w must feel the same! Help Help, Help.

THETOOLMAN,
Ok, all of that being said, I have a few more Q's for you.

Hve you expressed that you are willing to go on this cruise with her? If you have, have you asked why she is not willing to go with you?
I hate to be the doom sayer here, but this, in my very feeble mind, simply means the gig is up, and no longer possible b/c H is on to what is really happening.
You need to do more investigation as to what is happening.
Your statement about the Married OW calling her from the GYM as to why she didn't show up the other day is a big giant red flag to me. Why should she care, unless she is making the call at the bequest of someone else.
Time to put your attenae up.
All Blessings,
Jerry

TM

As far as the previous affair goes it does appear that experience shows if the affair is not confronted there is a greater chance of another affair.
can you be a bit clearer here, Did you actually say you would go with her and then she cancelled anyway????

if that is the scenario then yes I have to say you are indeed likely smelling a rat.

Now if she does not want you anywhere NEAR the cruise trip people then it s very big red flag.
However I'm not sure what the circumstances are here..did she just throw her hands in the air and say I'm not going are you happy or did you offer to go with her first & THEN she refused to go??????
That would be the key right now I think to getting some idea of what is going on.

This is what happened,
I had made my mind up to go with a grin on my face to smooth things over.
But w. said that the cruise was OFF & She would not go even with me. because the ruccus had spoiled it for her. Plus the offer to go on another one BETTER & longer was a big fat NO! ALSO!
I nentioned L. vegus. montreal,n.ga mtns.aruba. no answer.
I think she was just sore at the time , that may pass.
her friend never seems to call only -- well never.
My little spying thinggy key logger just came up with a bunch of back spaces . I tried it on my side works great. & you can make a sent message be nothing but backspsces & thats all that shows up little slick trick!

Well friend...this is one reason why I suggested not waiting for her. To sit down and talk with her. Bluntly...there are times when you need to quit 'playing games' like 'it's her turn' or 'it's my turn', and simply TALK and WORK things out.

Try a counter-offer now. Ask her to go with you on a cruise to the same location...WITH YOU. Tell her that you're sorry she cancelled, but that you hope she can start to see why this was such a huge concern for you. And ask her to take a trip WITH YOU...one that BOTH of you can enjoy and share and make your marriage STRONGER!

See what her reaction is. Hopefully, she'll agree and be happy with the idea!

Do you have any other 'evidence' of an ongoing affair besides the cruise thing? What else is she doing that is triggering your 'gut'?

well, changes include . late stays at friends house , cigarette smell- we dont smoke, alcahol smell But, Just 1 time, we don't drink
seems to blame me for way to much stuff just lately. Might be keeping me buisy with that stuff,
And the same cruise .. NO WAY!! thats a big negitive -- hever ever will go ( her words) again may just be mad.

What would concern me.

No way she will take the cruise because? She's worried your on to her? Time to get a real keylogger, or better yet the GPS tracker.

Hey tool,
I got a question for you.
How is it you posted yesterday on another forum, Other topics, and told everyone your W left you and you don't think she is coming back. But you didn't even mention it here on this forum
**************edit***************

Jerry

whoah

Shinethrough I believe TOOLMAN posted a joke in Other Topics.

"Oldie but a goodie" normally relates to jokes.

I thought the same, then figured it was a joke. Not real funny though IMO. Strange <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />