In a court of law you are right, in the bible check again.

Eagle, I gonna have to agree with GBH, that you are raising yourself to "most offensive poster" status, in my book.


What exactly inspired you to post such an awful thing? What did Ghost say that would lead you to believe her spouse would cheat on her?


Just curious -- what have you done to apologize or repair the damage you did to your previous spouse?

I would think as someone who has been a WS, you would be more empathetic to your wife, and other FWS's.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I find that stab particularly interesting now that you have revealed you were a WS in your previous M. So tell us how did you get out of that M, Eagle?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I'm not particularly religious, Eagle, so thumping on the Bible just doesn't do it for me. The whole thing about the W having to submit to her H and not being entitled to any kind of respect just rubs me the wrong way. May work for some people, but not to me.

Eagle's remarks are water off a duck's back to me. Everyday I'm awed by how far my H and I have come in 2 years. A year ago I'd probably have been leaving the board in a huff about now.

I know where we're at. I know how my H feels about me and how I feel about him. And none of it involves wishing the other dead.

I also did understand why Kimberley asked what she did.

Eagle15

I agree with you 100%.

First of all, I haven't posted in a while (formerly frozen).

Anyways, I don't think that WS's should be offended by Kim's post because there is absolutely nothing that justifies infidelity. WS's will never fully understand how much pain they caused their spouse and them still wanting to fix the M after they have been betrayed is beyond words.

A few weeks ago on the historychannel they hd a week long special on the consentration camps of WWII and about Hitler. They showed picturs of how the people were tortured and things like that. Three things went through my mind as soon as I saw that.

1. I felt very bad for what the people were going through..

2. How could someone do that to another human.

3. I would rather go through that than be a BS.

If anyone doesn't believe me or thinks I'm full of it, ask around I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

I know that the BS isn't faultless but they're not the ones who cheated. Neglect, finances, etc. can be fixed or changed, infidelity cannot. As in my case, my WW and I are seeing the pastor from church for counselling and thank God he knows how to help us. Anyways, he strongly believes that the reasons for my WW cheating and being all fogged up were a result of her home life, se was verbally and physically abused anddidn't know life without it and therefore had next to nothing to do with me.

I'm not saying I'm the perfect husband, far from but I'm not taking any responibility for the A because infidelity is "CHOICE" that's right "CHOICE". I have had three opportunites (not that I was looking for them), 2 before and 1 after my WW A, to have A's and guess what, I made a "CHOICE" not to, I actually thought about my wife at those moments and thought to myself that I couldn't do something like that to her even though our marriage wasn't going too good.

If a person has an A, they completely replace their spouse in their heart and mind, I don't believe you can love your spouse and have sex with another and then go back to your spouse and tell them it didn't mean anything. To me that says that your spouse means less than nothing to you.

If a person says that they have a good marriage and still have an A like some of those out of town "business trips" I have read about, that is the person just being selfish and stupid who doesn't give a crap about anything but then again these are just opinions of a BS.

One more thing, GBH

Check me on this, Eagle, but I believe abandonment is grounds. As is mental cruelty. Neglect could fit nicely into either of those two categories.

Just think about what kind of mental cruelty a BS goes through, in my opinion, it doesn't compare.

GBH,

I don't know the Bible as well as I would like but I have never hear or read anywhere in the Bible that the W must submit to her H and not being entitled to any kind of respect.

Yes it does talk about the wife submitting to her husband but that in turn the husband cares for and honors the wife.

How should husbands relate to their wives? It's in the Bible, Ephesians 5:25-28, TLB. "And you husbands, show the same kind of love to your wives as Christ showed to the church when He died for her…That is how husbands should treat their wives, loving them as parts of themselves. For since a man and his wife are now one, a man is really doing himself a favor and loving himself when he loves his wife!

Husbands should honor their wives. It's in the Bible, I Peter 3:7, TLB. "You husbands must be careful of your wives, being thoughtful of their needs and honoring them as the weaker sex. Remember that you and your wife are partners in receiving God's blessings, and if you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not get ready answers."

How should the wife relate to her husband? It's in the Bible, Ephesians 5:22-24, TLB. "You wives must submit to your husbands' leadership in the same way you submit to the Lord. For a husband is in charge of his wife in the same way Christ is in charge of His body the church. (He gave His very life to take care of it and be its Savior!) So you wives must willingly obey your husbands in everything, just as the church obeys Christ."

Does that mean the wife must do all the "give and take"? No! Marriage requires submission by both partners. It's in the Bible, Ephesians 5:21, NIV. "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

Nobody is debating whether or not infidelity is acceptable.

I don't think this post should be direct to one class of people. I think the same questions can apply to ALL. Would you change your way of thinking, your behavior, your actions if faced with life-threatening news? Everyone would, not just WS's.

But go ahead and vent some more at the FWS's here. It happens all the time. Same old same old.

I'm still interested in hearing if Eagle has made any reparations to the damage he did as a WS. Just wondering if he's a hypocrite who expects his WS to do things he never did.

I burned my fingers on the keyboard! This thread is really getting hostile. Re above, abandonment is not the same thing as neglect and even neglect has more than one possible form.

There is physical neglect and emotional neglect. To be guilty of abandonment, the WS has to physically leave the BS and not provide any means of support. You can neglect your S without ever leaving home.

I know because I did, I was, or at least he though I was, indifferent to him and he looked for attention elsewhere. That is why I am now a FBW.

I look back through these posts and still think that the point is that WS, while still in FOG do not think rationally enough to see any of the potential negative affects of their actions. It is only when the Fog begins to lift that they begin to see the harm done.

Who

Nope not hypocritcal, tried everything. She was through and we D'd. I gave it 4 years of my best efforts, but could not break through the hurt I dealt out to her.

This was way before MB or at least I heard of MB. When we D'd I felt and still do feel I did everything I could have done to make things right. By the time the D was final I was quite civilized and house broken, cook, clean, laundry, etc... BTW House broken is my W's term. I have no regrets and do not feel guilty about D. I still feel that I would not wish D on my worst enemy though.

And BTW I never went through withdrawl or fog. Just stopped. Ended things with OW, confessed to both As and moved ahead or behind depends on your POV. I wish it was that easy and I could do that with smoking.

I am not asking W to do anything I haven't already done.

Okay...Mr. Wondering and I are "wondering" how all of you are going to feel when we both keel over and die because of the tone that this thread has taken... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...Seriously, guys, is this thread actually helping anyone? Fighting for fighting sake? We've all had our fair share of battles in the war on infidelity...let's not forget we are all on the same team...SAVING MARRIAGES AND HEALING, RIGHT?

Mrs. Wondering

I'm a bit scared to come here and post, but here I am.....



Mel knew exactly where I was coming from. Curiousity kills the cat.....

I read these posts while I was at work & it drove me to tears. My intentions were not to insult anyone. My post (as the subject line says) is directed towards a WS.

I do not know your life experiences, what shapes your thoughts, what has brought you to MB. I do not know your heart as you do not know mine.....BTW, this is all said with caring and tenderness. Sometimes it's hard to tell where a person is coming from when you are reading their words.

Your thoughts are your thoughts....... Most people write from their past experiences. This post was definitely written based on what has shaped me over the past 9 months.

My hats off to you FWS who are here and have the courage and strength to fight for recovery. I pray that my WS will come home soon.

Kim

Each of the FWW's that have posted on this thread have spent almost every hour of everyday in their recovery regreting and reflecting and self punishing themselves. FL being one of the hardest on herself.

That is why it offensive for you to assume that it would take our spouses dying for us to regret that time...whether my husband is dead or alive...I regret it every breath I take...but i am learning to leave it in the past and appreciate every minute I have now - even if it may be the last.

Dorry,

I did not pound on FWSs, please read the whole thread. If then I have still offended you I am sorry. I did not mean to offend, just speaking my mind and feelings.

I asked some very direct questions and got hammered for it. So sorry my bad. Won't happen again. Again, I appologize to you dorry and each and every other FWS who was insulted on this thread, however most of your posts were quite insulting as well, no offense taken here. No complaints, I respect your opinions apparently you do not respect the opinions of others. For that I am deeply sorry.

Gosh, in 2 years and over 3000 posts I've only ever been flamed once before. Sort of says I don't offend many people. But I manage to have offended Eagle.

Kim, I'm sorry, I feel I started the downward tone of this thread. I did understand why you asked the question and I was trying to think of another word that didn't mean "insulted". I think the word is probably "hurt".

And yes, there are very, very few WSs (if any - as far as I know we're all FWSs) on the board so I guess all us FWSs feel defensive about this sort of thing.

"For most BSs it is of such enormous proportions they are completely and thoroughly devastated, more so than if the WS had simply keeled over dead. In a lot of cases death of the WS would ahve been a whole lot easier to deal with. "

I agree with Eagle, I have dealth with lots of close death in my life and this betrayal by my husband was worse by far. I don't know why, but I know what I feel and this is much more devastating and intense pain.

I really, really don't want to get involved here but I just can't let this beauty slide through to the keeper. This just totally pisses me off. A scripture out of context is a pretext.

Let's just read on shall we..

EPH 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body.

You know if husbands loved their wives, the submission part wouldn't be a problem. And I am a Man and a BS to boot.

Look guys - this holier than thou stuff is making me physically ill.

And comparing to the holocaust? Please. Spare me.

I haven't seen a single FWW here who has tried to justify their affair - they know it is all their fault having the affair. But we BS's need to take responsibility for the state of our marriages as well. Come on guys. Please. We have all been hurt. Our wives chose their affairs we didn't. OK. So move on people. Heal.

Weaker sex? Husband in charge? Obey? If you can't see why I, as a woman, am offended by this kind of thing, I won't even try to explain it.

Kimberly... sorry for my part in this, too. Like I posted earlier, perhaps my FWW sensitivity meter might need calibration on some of this stuff.

Man, oh man. I peeked in on this thread before I went to work this morning and its taken on even more of a life of it's own since then.

This a.m. after reading the first replies, all I could think was "geeze, somebody really got their buttons pushed with this one." Seemed to be a lot of reactions and emotions. It clearly says WS, not FWS or XWS or S on the title line. BIG, big difference. I thought it was not a call to WS but request for what would get through to them. Would the thought of imminent death cut through the fog?

I'm sure it would for a recovered WS.

The only marriage advice from the Bible that really makes sense to me is "Do on to others as you would have them do on to you."

Am I going to get flamed now?

Great post Melody. And thanks for righteously defending us FORMER WS's here on MB's! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And Kim, thanks for your clarification on this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now THAT makes sense... in marriage and everywhere else.