Mine has been too. But this somewhat bothers me. I get jealous that he can be up-beat after what he has done to me. I CAN'T be up-beat, why CAN he??


This sometimes makes me more angry, seeing him positive all the time.


Again, this inspires me csj. What do you tell yourself to not express the hurt? I just can't hold it in. I don't cry all the time, but I am always making snide remarks about whatever he says. I always "compare" anything he says to his A.

How do you put aside your images in your head? It is like everything on TV or at the store or at work reminds me of the A in some way. How do I stop it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />????

CO

So hard, I know. I have often thought that the A is like a sick soundtrack that is playing in the background of my life. I don't know how to turn it off!

But something that I observed to myself a long time ago--back when I thought I would NEVER be in this situation because my H would NEVER cheat on me--is that if when a spouse agrees to forgive an affair and work things out--you really have to forgive. If you don't, then you end up holding it over the WS's head and it becomes a bigger "dealbreaker" than the A was! Now the WS gets to be a martyr--gets to claim "I'll never be forgiven, so why try . . . I'm more miserable now than before the A . . ." I've seen it happen before with people I live around.

Plus, and maybe this isn't an altogether altruistic motive, but it makes me feel good to show my FWH that I am a much better person than the OW! This weekend I spent the better part of Saturday making my FWH his favorite cookies (very labor-intensive, but so good). I thought to myself, "she never made him his favorite anything--probably doesn't even know these are his favorite." "I am a better cook than she is." And so on. I smiled all day to think of that. Gosh my FWH is one lucky guy!!!!

Have a great day--I hope all is well for you!

-CSJ

Yeah, it does feel good to know we are better than the OW. There is nothing attractive about inviting yourself back to a hotel room when you don't even know the guy, and my husband realizes this. Also, it isn't very attractive that she didn't respect he was married either (he had his ring on and he told her in a phone conversation later). These type of women ruin it for the rest of us that have morals!! And that's not saying my husband didn't have any responsibility either. He could have said no! I read somewhere on this site that the OW had no responsibility to me but my husband did. I just know me personally, if I was single, would never go after a married man.

I have an exposure question for you. I hope you can help. Both of our immediate families know about the A, and all of my friends also know. Only one of his friends knows about it. There is one friend that we are really close with, have grown up with, and go on vacation with every year. My H mentioned something to him around Thanksgiving about dealing with some personal issues in his life but never told him about the A. We aren't sure if we should tell him or not. We are going on vacation again this July with him and his wife and I'm sure I will be acting different. Do you think we should tell them?

In one aspect I want as little people to know as possible, but in another aspect I don't want them to ever hear it from someone else. And I know in Plan A you are supposed to expose to everyone you know, but is that just to get the WS to come to "reality"? My H is already there. Any suggestions?

CO

I don't buy the notion that the OW didn't have any responsibility to us; although, I think I've also read that here somewhere. For example, I think I have a responsibility to EVERYONE to treat them with respect and dignity. And I think that, for a woman to interject herself into someone else's marriage is about as disrespectful as you can get. In my situation, OW knew exactly who I was--had seen me before, and had seen me with my H and our oldest daughter before. She absolutely owed me and my marriage respect. And your FWH's OW owed you that, too. I refuse to cut an OW any slack.

What my FWH did to me is different than what the OW did, not because of responsibility, but because he made a COVENANT to me that he broke, and he betrayed an emotional trust that I didn't have with OW. This is what hurts.

As for telling your friend, that is a tough one. I have tossed that around a bit myself. I see exposure as primarily a tool to end affairs, and my H's A was over by the time I found out about it. I exposed only to some select people in my H's family that I knew would support me--I knew they would apply "pressure" on my H to kill any traces that might remain. Plus, I didn't want them to hear from someone else and be hurt or confused.

I didn't expose to my family. They don't live nearby, and would have no way to find out on their own. And, I know how desperately hurt my mom would be to know what has happened, and I don't want her to have to deal with that. Also, I don't want H to walk on eggshells around my parents, wondering if they hate him. We are working things out, and I would rather that they be able to treat him they same way they always have.

I guess for those same reasons, I haven't told any friends of mine who don't live around me. (We live in a relatively small town, and the local grapevine took care of informing pretty much everyone around.) I have been tempted to tell a longtime female friend of mine, more for moral support than anything else. But I don't want her to think poorly of my FWH. And, deep inside, I hate admitting to the A. It still feels to me like some failure on my part--something I didn't do right. So I'm still undecided on whether or not to tell her.

I guess, putting myself in your shoes, I would decide the issue on whether you think it will be helpful to you and your H. Maybe these friends will be a really great support system for the both of you. Maybe your FWH would feel really uplifted to know that his friends accepted him, even knowing the worst of what he has done. Maybe it would be helpful to you to see that your friends support your decision to work things out. Those would be good reasons to tell them. But if you think it will just make you feel awkward or judged, then I wouldn't. Sometimes it's nice to be treated like you're normal, even when you don't feel like you are. Maybe an annual trip that felt like every other annual trip you've had would be a relief and a real jolt to your recovery.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Good to chat, and have a great day!

-CSJ

I agree with you about treating everyone with respect. Too bad there are people out there that don't care! I never really imagined that one of them could affect my life this way either!

I think we aren't going to tell our friend. We just found out that him and his wife may not be coming with us in July after all. They just bought a new house and aren't sure they have the money.

For some reason I have this idea in my head that if anyone knew that one of us had a A and didn't know who, they would think it was me. I think a lot of his friends think because I am attractive that I can't be faithful. Of course, my H is attractive too, but it is different for men. My H asked me why I would think that, and I don't really know. None of his friends ever said anything, but I just get the vibe they don't trust me. So I would never want them to hear through the grapevine and then just assume it was me. I don't ever want to be put in the category of being unfaithful!

Then I also think if his friends do know the truth that they will think I'm stupid for staying with my H since I did everything for him before the A and he just took advantage of me. He had it so made before! So I never know how someone is going to act when they find out. Maybe it is better just to not say anything to anybody else that doesn't know already. That way I don't feel uncomfortable, and my H doesn't either. I just hope they don't hear half the truth from someone else. Since I found the e-mail at work and I work at a really big courthouse, everyone at my job knows. So I hope word doesn't get back to them. The good thing is it isn't a small town where everybody knows everybody.

We'll see how it pans out.

Thanks for you advice.

--CO

I know what you mean! When everyone started hearing about the A, they would ask my friends "why didn't she kick him to the curb??!!" And I really did feel so alienated--these people had never been in this situation, and now they were questioning my judgment!

I guess, since a cheating spouse really gives your self esteem a hit, it's hard not to feel self-conscious about everything. Now I wonder if people are whispering about it--speculating about why my H cheated. "The sex at home must have been bad . . . " "Maybe she nagged him . . . " That sort of thing.

And I also feel like people who knew us must really think I am an idiot for sticking it out, because I, like you, really gave my H practically everything he wanted. He had things at home pretty good, and so I do feel like H took advantage of my desire to be a supportive wife. And then I read on this forum the other day that when you do too much for your spouse that it gives them a sense of entitlement. That is something I never thought of before. I wonder now if my attempt to "be supportive" really fed into the atmosphere for his A. Did he feel entitled to do anything he wanted--to be as selfish as he wanted--because he was used to me just saying "yes" to everything? I feel now that I need to make some adjustments about the way I interact with my H.

Good to chat--take care of you!

-C.

I know how you feel about the friends talking about you when you're not around. I always feel like everyone is talking about me behind my back. I just know how the people are here at my job, you know, of course, because they have "perfect" marriages. When I went to tell my boss the day I found out, after I left work he went into my friend's office and said, "I wonder what she did to him to make him cheat." I was really offended by that, but then I realized he is just a pig (probably justifying his own reasons whey he cheated on his W in the past which everyone knows about since he was sleeping with one of the girls at work). But it made me realize the different aspects that people look at. As if an A is ever justified!!

But I think my biggest hangup on that is that I know I would be talking about me if I were them. I feel "stupid" for staying. I feel that I let myself down because I always told myself (and him) that I would leave him if he ever cheated on me. What kind of message is that giving to my H now that I'm still here, that my word doesn't mean anything??? It really does bother me. And I know all of my family and true friends say that it takes a bigger person to stay and work it out. But I'm not feeling so big right now. That is one of the reasons I am here on MB. Everyone here is really supportive in that aspect. So it is helping me change my attitude. And of course, I'm not doing this for myself, it is for God and the children. I have to keep reminding myself of that.


I agree with you and will be doing the same! Too bad it's come to this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />!!

--CO

Just wanted to write to vent. I am feeling pretty down right now. I can't stop thinking of everything that is going on and has gone on. I sit here and think how he told me he fell out of love with me, watched me suffer for two and a half weeks till I found out the truth and the whole time he's e-mailing and calling OW. How can he just go to work and think, Oh, I'm going to call OW....like it's natural. Why didn't he call me instead of her? How could he do this for a month and a half and not stop?? What was so addicting about e-mailing and calling someone who is a worthless s**t and someone he didn't even know??? It doesn't sound very appealing to me especially since he tells me OW was "not that attractive and I only thought she was because I was drunk". Well, when he woke up the next morning with OW in his bed and she's "not that attractive" why keep in contact with her?? What is so addicting about talking and e-mailing a "not that attractive" girl about fulfilling fantasies and telling her he loves her and she is heaven sent and the complete package, etc., etc.?? I just sit here and think I would love to file for divorce without him having a clue so when they serve him with the pepers, he can be as surprised as I was when I found out about the A.

I just keep asking myself, why do I want to be with someone that did this to me and continued for a month and a half....why, why, why?? He knew exactly what he was doing and DIDN'T CARE!

I know I'll never have answers but I just needed to get that out. I'd rather write it here than yell at H all night about it.

Sorry to go off. I realize a lot of what I just said is out of anger, and I'm really trying to work on that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

-CO

I was looking for a little bit of advice on this forum when I came across a post that sounded familiar. When I got to the bottom the profile was us!!!! I am so sorry for what I did ! I know what I did ruined a great marriage. I am sitting here at this moment crying my eyes out as you are up sleeping in the kids bed tonight. I love you i love you I love you!!! I can't change what I did that night or the times I called and e-mailed her after that. The only thing I can change about that night is me ! Our friends and family see the person I have become from all this, and even you have witnessed my change since finding Christ. I know you are hurting and it is hard for you to accept me. I know I let you down... I know I didn't fulfill your dream of being the perfect husband and I am so sorry for that. I am so SORRY! I don't know why God brought us together. You are so such a wonderful person. You deserve to be happy but because of me your not and I hate knowing that. I am so SORRY!!! I will never know how it feels to be in your shoes. I will never understand what it is you are going thru. I will never know what it feels like to be let down by someone you love so much. I will never know those things as long as I am married to you. You are so amazing . You have given 8 years of your life to this marriage and I carelessly ruined in one night what took over 10 years to build. I told you before that if you were to divorce me I would still consider myself lucky because there is not anyone else I would want the girls to call Mother! I was and am so lucky to share my life with you. You are so perfect . I know my actions in the past don't reflect my feelings but just know that I think the world of you for even trying to work thru this with me. Well from what I read in your post you don't really want to be with me. You want to surprise me with divorce papers. That was hard to read. I had to read it twice to make sure I read it right , then I checked the profile at the bottom of the page to make sure I wasn't reading someone else's post. I hate what I did to put us here. I know God brought us together which makes you truly "heaven sent" and together we make the "complete package". You were my high school sweetheart! We used to have to sneak around to be together because your parents thought we were too young to be together. I wish we could go back to those days. The days when we would do anything to see each other. The days when we would talk on the phone for hours about nothing. Remember our first date when I locked my keys in the car. You should have seen it right there that I was destined to screw up! I only wish I could call that lock smith up again and have him bail me out of this one! Well I am gonna go now, my eyes are getting too swollen from crying and I can barely read what I am writing.

I love you "cheated_on" !


Love You For Life [color:"red"] [/color] :
your husband

Well, another aspect of my life which is ruined. Now I can't even go on this forum anymore and express my feelings since WH will find me wherever I go. I won't be able to speak how I want knowing he will be looking. I'm sure he just stumbled upon my thread. Everyone knows how many there are here and isn't it convenient that the computer saves your username if you just click in the space? He knows all of my passwords because I use the same one for everything. I'm sure he just "stumbled" upon it.

I told him today to leave, I want a divorce <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />....this was before finding out he was on here last night. He's gone now. I packed his stuff up for him this time. I just don't think I will ever get over this.

Thanks for everyone's help on here. I will still come to MB to read and educate myself through this whole process.

-CO

csj (or anyone that can help)
Are you still with me? I really need some advice right now. Please read the last few posts. The situation is this....after I told him to leave this morning I was really, really angry so I decided to call the OW and go off on her and tell her she could have him because I'm filing for divorce. I was just going to leave a message because all I have is her work # and since it is Saturday, I didn't think she'd be there. Well, she was and she answered and I started going off on her and then she kept just saying to calm down, that she wanted to talk with me. So I told her to tell me her version of the story, which she did. Of course, it was a lot different than my H's. She told me they even went out to lunch together. And I asked her where and she said the Olive Garden. I knew right then she was telling me the truth because I got our bank statement from that month and he used his credit card at the Olive Garden. She gave me some other info about him not having his wedding ring on that night and she has a picture her friend took to prove it. He told me he had his wedding ring on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So after I hung up with her, I called my H to give him a chance to come clean. Of course, I didn't mention I had talked to the OW, and never in a million years would he think I would. So I said, "Who did you go to the Olive Garden with in NY?" He said, "Kathy." (a girl from his job that he went to NY with.) I said, "That's a lie. I know it for a fact. So tell me, who did you eat at the Olive Garden with?" He said, "It wasn't Kathy, it was the guy I met at the club that night." I said, "Oh, how did you get in touch with him, you didn't even know him?" He said, "I ran into him on the street and we went to eat." I said, "Listen, I know for a fact you went out with OW. Just be honest with me." He said, "No, I went out with the guy I met." I said, "Was the OW with you?" He said "No." I said, "I know for a fact you were with her at the Olive Garden, why don't you just be honest with me?" (Of course, he's thinking I called the Kathy lady and I would never know the real truth.) I told him to swear on the kids' lives that he wasn't out to eat with the OW. And he did...he swore on our children's lives <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. I juut went off and then I told him I talked to OW and she told me. Then of course he admitted, still after trying to deny it a couple more times. Then I asked him about the wedding ring again. He kept saying he had it on. After lying about that for the next three conversations I told him about the picture and he finally told me the truth on that, that he wasn't wearing it.

So here I am feeling like I'm at Dday again. All of my feelings have come back. I was making so much progress and here I am back where I started. Now he's telling me he only went out to eat with OW because he wanted to let her know that he wasn't interested. OW did tell me that he told her he had a g/f while at dinner. But he also told me he took his wedding ring off again when they went out to dinner. This sounds like total intent to cheat on me to me. Here I was believing all of his lies for 4 months. I feel like a total idiot. I don't know what to think or what to do at this point. I can't believe anything he tells me. He is telling me he didn't tell me the whole truth because he wanted me to judge him for who he is now and not then, but who he is now is a lier!! How dare him give me less info and expect me to make a logical decision. All he was thinking about was himself again, trying to make the decision for me by not telling me what I didn't want to hear. I am just so devastated all over again. Somebody please give me advice. I don't even care if he is reading this. I have nothing to hide, unlike him.

My family said that they wouldn't have told me everything either, which I kind of see their point, but what about all the other lies he told me like "I never would have planned or intentionally cheated on you." He told me, "I would never have went out again with OW because she wasn't that attractive. I wouldn't want to be seen with her." He didn't even have to mention those things to me. And it sure sounds like intent to me when you take your wedding ring off at a night club and then again when you meet her for dinner.

Any comments anybody??
Sorry that was so long.

(((Cheated_on)))

I don't know what to tell you. I can imagine the slap in the face you have felt. My suggestion would be to not do anything until you can get some sage advice.

I do think it is a good sign that your WH is hanging around here. Maybe he would start a thread so he could get some advice on how to help you to feel safe again.

Cheated on,

Saw your call out and thought I'd throw in my 2 bits.

They all LIE. I could have told you your WH would lie. They all do until faced with overwhelming evidence. IMO (in my opinion), it is really not an additional transgression but a continuation of his "original sin". Further, I believe that WH being here and willing to work on the marriage is a positive thing too as both my wife and I are regulars and it helped us immensely. Often times. Betrayed Spouse actually make posting here a condition of reconciliation. I say share your feelings fully...what have either of you got to lose more than your marriage.

CO, you've got some thinking to do...you have a choice, attempt to recover or divorce (as is your right). You must decide now as it is unhealthy to do more than one of these alternatives at a time. I believe your selling yourself and your kids short if you don't at least try. Further, you've got what MANY here wish they had ... a WH who appears to be willing to try. He wasn't that good at it so far, but you both were lacking the proper tools and HE definitely is fogged out and lacking SANITY.

I wish you luck. Study the basic concepts. Get the books, even if you merely sit at Borders and read them. Mrs. Wondering and I particularly liked His Needs, Her Needs on CD audio version. We listened to it together on a road trip 3 months into recovery.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

The problem I have with this is he was faced with overwhelming evidence and still wouldn't come clean.


I decided to recover in November. Now I am going through all of the same feelings as D-day all over again. I can't keep going back to the beginning after getting so far. Is this my D-day # 2? Last night I felt the same way I felt that first night of D-day. My stomachs in knots, I can't eat, can't sleep. I slept for about an hour total and I feel like crap. I have no direction and I'm confused.

How will I ever trust him again when he's still lying to me to this day? I don't believe a word he says. How can I be married or even try to work on our marriage if I don't trust him??

Which books would you recommend?

-CO

((((((((((((((((CO)))))))))))))))))

I am so sorry. I had family in from out of town and didn't have much time to troll around here--I missed the new posts on your thread.

Don't do anything too hasty--okay? I had new revelations come in after DDay, too. I think everyone does. I confronted my H about them, he told me his explanations, and I accept about 1/2 of it. I know he continues to keep secrets about the A from me. In part he does this to save my feelings--he knows that it will hurt me to hear more details. In part he does this to save himself. He knows that the more I hear, the more he looks like a huge jerk. I'm sure your FWH is in the same boat. It's pretty typical WS stuff. But, like Mr. Wondering said, really the lies are just a continuation of the same thing, not a new problem.

Take a breath. Weigh things out in your own mind. Pray about it. Then do what you know is best for you and your family.

My thoughts are with you--please post again and let everyone know how you are doing.

-CSJ

Bumping up.....

CO--are you okay?

csj,
Thanks for checking in on me. I'm doing all right. We are still separated but keep in contact mainly due to the kids. He just came and picked them up...he has them for the weekend. I will see them for a little tomorrow though b/c we have an Easter egg hunt. I'm still really upset about the whole thing, but I guess I should have expected that he wouldn't tell the "whole" truth. It is going to be so much harder to trust him now though. I just thought after everything we've been through so far he would have realized not to lie to me again. He should have seen where that has gotten him by now. But as I've come to realize, all the WS's think of is themselves and how they can benefit from the situation. He thought I would leave him if I knew the "whole" truth. But as you and Mr. Wondering said, I realize it is a continuation from the same incident. It just really, really hurts me to know he took his wedding ring off. That is such a disgrace to our marriage (not like the A wasn't)!

This time apart is doing us both good. He decided to join a men's group at church to help him with his selfishness (which I told him was a big step for him to realize he's selfish). I'm just spending time with my girls and trying to focus more on myself and what I want to do with this whole mess.

It felt good to actually miss him. It makes me see how much I still love him and how much he means to me.

We are also going through some counseling issues. We don't see our counselor until April 13th again and we just can't wait that long, so we asked our pastor if we could meet w/him and he said he just wanted to run it by our counselor to see if it was ok w/him. Well, our counselor said it wasn't a good idea. So now we are thinking of firing our counselor and just going with the pastor for counseling. Our counselor is an hour away @ $75.00 a session. Our pastor is about 20 minutes away and I don't think he charges anything. Plus, when I called the counselor to fill him in on what's going on, he didn't even give me any advice or guidance. I was pretty upset about that. Also, I was wondering is it normal for the counselor to never once ask about the A? He never once asked us what happened or asked any details. We told him some things about it just through conversation. Is that normal?

Well, just wanted to give you the update. Again, thanks for checking in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'll keep you informed. Thanks for your help!

CO-

I'm glad to hear that you are doing alright! Recovery is tough, that I know. It's pretty slow going at times, so it's frustrating to look around and wonder if you've made any progress at all. It's hard to know that trust is gone. I miss the days that my H could leave the house and I didn't even question where he was. I miss the time when the thought of what he hadn't told me didn't even cross my mind. It will take time to rebuild that, I suppose. But at least there are plenty of examples of progress here--that helps to stay motivated. And I have some good moments when I see progress with my H and I, too. I just have learned to not expect too much at once.

I don't know what's "normal" for counselors--my H and I have been just going through our church, too. I had heard widely varied stories about counselors and wasn't convinced it would very helpful. I think (though obviously I am no expert in this area) the most important thing is to find someone you both feel comfortable talking to who can be NEUTRAL--not an advocate for you or your H--but an advocate for the marriage. If your pastor accomplishes that, then you are all set.

Good luck to you and your children! Hopefully your H now understands what he'd be missing if he doesn't pull it together!

-CSJ

I'm having a hard time today. It is my H's b-day. I am trying so hard to be nice to him, but everytime I call him, we end up arguing. He keeps telling me I just want to pay him back for my horrible b-day (when he told me he fell out of love with me). Maybe deep down that is true. My b-day was the worst day of my life. It was actually worse than D-day.

He's still living at his parents'. Me and the girls baked him a cake and got him cards and they each picked out a balloon for him. I don't feel like I would want him to be miserable on his b-day if I went out of my way to do those things.

I am just in a "mood" today. Nothing anybody says is right. I'm being mean to everyone around me. I found myself ignoring people today and rolling my eyes at them too. I thought I was beyond that. I think I just miss my "old" marriage so bad and all I have to blame is my H. How could he just ruin our M this way? And now here I sit, separted, sharing custody of my children. What was he thinking??? How could he do this to our "great" M and our "great" family?? I am so miserable! This is definitely not where I wanted to be in life. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel??

-CO

Hi cheated on,
I am so sorry for what you are going thorough. I understand and consider myself a great success story. My marriage is more wonderful now than it ever was before the affair my husband had. Thanks to major hard work by both of us in our recovery. It will be 3 years since d-day in July. I have written some of my story on the In Recovery board under the topic titled something like "can you love the same way again?" by a poster named renee. Look for my posts under that thread. I hope they will be an encouragement to you. Consider it a blessing that your husband wants to make this right. My husband was like that too and it made all the difference in our successful recovery.
Glad