Same thing here.....I would have done anything for my H if he would have just asked!!

eaglesoar


Great advice. I will try this. Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't take them as a slam at all. I appreciate help from anybody that's been through this. It helps me a lot. I'm happy to see you and your H are recovering well. It brings me hope.

Hi there CO,

Great post by eagle, thanks eagle. Good reminder for me too and interestingly the "do I want to be right or do I want to be married?" question I learned early in our recovery too and it helped me so much because I was always an "I'm right and will fight to the death to prove it and make him admit it" kind of fighter. Clearly that approach never got me where I wanted to be and even when my case was made and I was proven right there was no satisfaction because of the strife it caused to be proclaimed right!

I am glad that you saw the value in eagles post, CO. And I agree that telling yourself at least one positive thing about your husband everyday will help you. If you can manage to tell HIM something positive about himself every day, then, wow, you are really getting somewhere and it will reap rewards. Do what you can with where you are at right now though, you are doing a great job.

You have had a very big week CO. I don't know how you balance a job in it all too. I am so glad you got yourself such a restful night sleep last night. Can I assume your H rose to the challange of taking care of the girls and getting them settled for bed since you fell asleep at 6:30? If so, there is a positive you can write down. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And I agree that someone who was able to woo and marry a wonderful, caring and intelligent woman such as yourself must have some pretty decent qualities inside somewhere. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It can be so hard initially to see your H as anything but an infidel after something so crushing as an A. But it helped me so much to ask God regularily to help me see my H as He sees him and I would ask God to love my H through me so that I could feel the love that God has for him when I felt like I couldn't love him. This helped me immensely to feel more tender towards my H and to see him as a whole person, not just as an infidel. Does that make sense?

I again was struck by how similar we are when you said that when your H had a hard morning you felt sorry for him. I had feelings like that too. This is a good thing because you are allowing yourself to tap into a tender emotion for him. Now you may find yourself later being angry at yourself for feeling sorry for him during a hard moment because you think, well he should feel like crap. But ultimately, as time goes by you will start to realize more and more that it would be a hinderance to both of you, your girls and your marriage to be on a constant quest to make sure he knows all the time what a terrible person he is.

You asked about my marriage pre-A. First off, I would have never guessed that my H would have an A at that point with a 4, 2, and 4 month old (PA started when baby was 8 wks old!!) But I can also say that with 3 pregs in 4 years we were not in the healthiest state of marriage and I would say there was room for a lot of improvement from both of us. I felt angry at him a lot and very underappreciated. That resulted in a lot of LB type behavior from me particularly in the form of nasty tone and verbal sparring. He felt disrespected and unvalued and unadmired by me. He was a nasty verbal fighter whereas I was merely pointing out the facts to prove my rightness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Not actually funny though because we found ourselves on a bad course of marital dissatisfaction.

Interestingly though we were a great team as parents and got a lot of satisfaction in our girls. I enjoyed the whole homemaking/stay at home mom role and prided in my and the girls appearance, our home, having a new recipe on the table each night, etc. And so when d-day actually hit, I was really shocked because for the most part I thought we were doing pretty good at the time because we had had a lot of marital ups and downs throughout the marriage and I thought we were in a "decent" place at the moment.

But now, in the healthy marriage we have now, I see how totally disconnected we were and the tools we have learned through our recovery have given us an immense respect and love for one another that was sorely lacking pre-A.

So, and I don't expect you to believe you will ever feel this way in the stage you are at now...I would say only in the past year have I really felt this...but I am THANKFUL for the experience because of what we have today and because of the tools we now have that we can use to face other difficult journeys we will certainly have in a potential 50 more years of marriage. I told someone recently that I hate that the A happened and the pain it caused, but if that is what it took to get us where we are today I am thankful for it. And I really mean that.

Hang in there today CO! (((((CO)))))
Blessings,
Glad

Hi Glad,
Thanks for that post. That has some great advice in it. Yes, my H took care of the girls while I slept. He did a good job of it too. I didn't wake up once except when he woke me up to ask if I wanted dinner <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think to myself often how can I handle my job and all of the stresses I'm going through. This week at work was super busy with no time to be down on myself. I am actually really impressed with the strength God has given me. I know it is from God b/c without him I wouldn't be able to make it as far as I have. He has guided me through this in so many ways and through so many people including you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. You have been a blessing to me through this. I also feel we have a lot in common by reading your posts.



This makes perfect sense to me and what a great idea!! That is such an amazing way to look at it and approach it.


Thanks for the compliment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am going to try to think of positives of what my H is doing for me. I must admit that other than lying he has been a great support for me since this has happened and will do anything to help me through this. I'm not sure if I am at the point where I will tell him the positives, but I will think of them for now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. At least maybe that will help me with my LBing.

Thanks again for your advice.

--CO

Just an update. Things are going ok today. I haven't LB'd too much. I hope it stays that way. I keep thinking of what you told me, Glad, about letting God love through me.

I just sit at this computer and think how this is where he planned their weekend together. Not only that I booked the airfare for him b/c I didn't want him to drive. I just don't understand how the only person he's known all his life is me and it was so easy for him to plan and cheat on me w/someone he didn't even know. I think maybe it would be different if he would have known this person and had a R with her first. It just doesn't make any sense.

That is one of my biggest problems, I always say to myself, "What would I have done." I have to realize my H is not like me at all. I think that is the scarriest thing, is realizing he's not and doesn't have the same morals as me. That is such a hard concept to grasp. Isn't that why I married him, b/c we had the same morals and standards??

H asked me if I wanted to go to a movie w/him. I told him I didn't feel comfortable enough to go w/him alone. So he is planning a movie "date" tomorrow with my two brothers and their friends. It should go well since I won't be able to LB around other people. My brothers are my rocks through this whole thing and I don't know what I would do w/out them.

I'll let you know how it goes. Have a good weekend!

--CO

I'm feeling like a loser today. I know before I've said I am attractive, and I believe that. But I feel like such a loser lately. I'm not feeling the way I did before the A. I NEVER had self-esteem issues and now this A comes and I feel so insecure. I just keep thinking how H told OW how his sex drive w/me was a 2 out of 10. Now I think when he was having SF w/me before he never enjoyed it. I told him today if he would have just mentioned something to me or planned a weekend w/me for sex instead of OW, I would have done it in a heartbeat. But then I sit here and think, why would he want to plan a weekend w/me who is a 2 when he can have a 10??? Now everytime his family looks at me they are probably thinking, "She must suck in bed." especially since he told them he was only with OW for the SF. So what does that tell me......I suck in bed!!! I just want to be me again!!! I want to go on a weekend w/my H and give him SF. I'd just like to be asked to go for a weekend w/my H. He never paid any attention to me which was fine w/me before but now that I see how much attention he gave her I am so jealous. It is so not fair.

I've also come to the realization that maybe where I went wrong before was with the ENs. I think I figured since I didn't need them, neither did he.....WRONG!!! I guess it would have been nice if he would have mentioned this to me since I'm not a mindreader and nothing's changed in our M since we first got married.

Glad, have you felt this way?? I am just feeling I'll never be me again. It is so depressing. Anybody else been here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />??

--CO

yes it is depressing also depressing helping my W find a place aw well as being her shoulder to cry on right now cause she hasn't found a place yet and she hates staying w/ her parents why and how did i have tobe such a F nice guy now thats probly why she married me cause i was a bad boy now im a dad.

why cant they get it threw there freaken head that there will be bad time a good time in a marriage. damn i hate her 4 this why do i still care so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

saenz,

seems like you and I are on the same page today....depressed. You know what our problem is, we love our spouses sooooo much. Why do we love them sooooo much.....who knows??? If only they loved us HALF as much as we loved them!

Sorry you have to go through finding a place for her and being there for her. That must be so hard on you. And your emotions are probably all over the place.

How was your weekend besides the wedding?

ah it was ok i finally got some good sleep last nite i took some sleeping aids and the kids where w/ her i fell asleep about 8pm woke up around 5am which was ok w/ me being i get up around that time to go to work.

i dont know where im at all i do kno wis i hate being here where i am right now in this emotional state i know im better off w/ out her ****** i've lost 20lbs. already not to mention my lower back stop hurting also.

i just wish i could stop hurting and be a man again. damn i hope i dont ever let anyone in like this again if i would of known that she was going to do this i would of never of gotten married and had kids. its to f hard.

hey CO....howyadoin???

i read your post...i just put soemthing on saenz thread...about my opinions on self esteem....check it out...

i wrote it from a mans perspetcive, but it also applies to women....

for a woman, i believe that in todays world, LOOKS is so important, men will overloook alot of things for that "trophy" on his arm....

just do something that make you feel good about yourself....i like a woman that smells good, YOU know when you look good, YOU know when you feel good about yourself...THATS self esteem...THATS good cuz when YOU feel good, people pick up on that....

do you know who lou holtz is??? he was the winningest coach in college football....notre dame fame...anyway, he wrote a self help book called "winning everyday"....in it he talk about hardship, and struggles....he says that unless you fall on hard times, and pick yourself up, you can never really enjoy the "good" times...(i slaughtered the idea) but you can get the picture...

just keep your attitude in check....you have kids right??? how many people hung out with "eyore" from winnie the pooh...."oh wooyies me".....right!!!! not very many......

keep a amile on your face, someday when you look back, you gonna think the same as me....."WHO WAS THAT GUY" in the past.....

smile...no matter how hard it is!!!

hey sturg,

Thanks for your post. I did read what you wrote on sanez thread. It makes perfect sense and I totally agree w/u. I think you're right on point about the low self-esteem of the cheater. I just wish it made ME feel better. What really bothers me is that my self-esteem went from a 9 to a 2. I must say, though, that one of my good friends at work (a guy who's like a father figure to me) told me I really kept myself together well (appearance) through this whole thing. That made me feel really good.

Did you ever hear that song by Kelly Clarkson, Behind These Hazel Eyes? It is exactly what I am feeling. I am torn apart in the inside but so many people would never know b/c when I go out anywhere, I try to focus on just that. I only do my crying and down on myself once I get home.

Actually, tonight I felt so bad b/c I was crying in front of my 8 yr. old. She came up and hugged me. I did not want to cry in front of her and she asked me why I was crying. And I just said, "Sometimes mommy can't be as strong as she wants to." It was really sad. I don't want my daughters to see me this way.

What hurts me the most is I am not the person I was and I've lost all of who I am. That is why I am so depressed today. I feel like I let myself down.


waiting patiently for the "good" times.

Thanks again for your post, sturg. It did make me feel better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

--CO

i got the new "scott stapp" CD, former front guy from CREED...its really DEEP and songs about struggles and falling on hard times, but picking up the pieces of your life and moving forward....alot of the songs hit home for me as i look back at where i was and where im at....

check it out....some of the songs are pretty heavy, if you like hard rock n roll!

(((((((CO))))))))

I know well that "loser" feeling. I feel your heartbreak and want to cry with you. I'm so sorry. It will not always be this painful, I promise you that.

I see that you have made a new step in your recovery...and it is a big, giant, leaping step. It is that you are starting to look at the marriage as a whole and how EN's contribute so much to the stability of a healthy marriage.

Have you poured over the EN section on here and printed out and taken the questionaire with your husband? When you are ready, I think this is a crucial step in recovery. Just make sure that when you go over them with each other you set aside all defensiveness for what the others EN's are and how they feel they are lacking in being met. Read through each of the 10 needs before taking it too, so you have a clear understanding of what they encompass.

I also think that you will find that you do, in fact, have EN's that are high and need to be met. Everyone does. Most clearly, you have a high EN for communication. Your H has a high EN for SF (mine too...i know that feels yucky right now though) but he also has others, find out what they are and how he wants them "administered" to receive maximum love benefit, and vice versa.

I just pulled out ours from 3 wks after d-day. Here were my H top 5:
1. SF
2. Affection
3. Admiration
4. Conversation
5. An Attractive Spouse

Here were mine:
1. Conversation
2. Honesty and Openness
3. Admiration
4. Family Commitment
5. Affection

I am betting your top two EN's are the same as mine! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Knowing these things is only half the battle, you also have to learn how to best administer them for full love benefit as I said above.

For example, my H used to do a lot of "service" oriented things for me, thinking that was showing me love. But I needed the communication. I read his "service" stuff, like vacuuming or cleaning up the kitchen as "she's such a slob I guess if I want a clean house I have to do it myself", so it was actually a love buster to me, what he thought was showing love. I told him I needed to hear the words behind the actions and that made all the difference. He now says "I cleaned the kitchen for you because I know you are picking up all day long and wanted to help you out because I love and admire the job you do around here every day." or, "I brought you flowers because I knew it would make you smile to see them on the table every morning". That kind of thing. Hope that made sense. I type my thoughts and I am not sure they are always coming out clearly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I totally understand where you are at right now with all your self-doubt and wondering. I agree with what sturg said on the other thread about insecure men trading down to feel better about themselves when they are feeling unloved and unsure of how to deal with a confident, capable wife...this was the exact same situation for us. And sadly, I perpetuated this atmosphere for my husband but never allowing him to see me vulnerable or needy of him and also by thinking that I was smarter than him... I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but that doesn't mean he does not have incredible value and smarts in his own right..he is supporting a family of 6 on his own, that needs to be celebrated by me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> OW celebrated that in him and built him up....now I make sure I am the one building him up.

Anyway, you are on the right path CO. Your feelings right now, although yucky and discouraging, are part of the process. I would bet that you are a lot like I was in not allowing him to see your vulnerability and need for him. This took practice for me to learn how to expose myself in this way to my husband. But it has made a huge difference. All men want to be a knight in shining armor to their wives. We need to learn how to let them be that.

Blessings to you today,
Glad

I'll listen to any music except country. It gives me a headache <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I will look into that CD.

hola chica how are ya holding up today

I took it by myself. I don't feel comfortable doing it with my H yet. I'm not ready to fulfill his ENs right now. I think I took it too early on. I wasn't ready for it and I was still unsure of what I wanted to do with the M.


I agree with just about your whole list, you're right. I would add recreational compainionship as # 5 though and take away the affection. That would probably be the only difference from yours. I still don't feel I am big on the ENs. All I really cared about w/my H before was getting along really well and being faithful to eachother. I guess that is my biggest EN is being faithful and that's not on the list. That was actually the one and only thing I ever told my H I would divorce him for and look what he did <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I should tell him to be unfaithful, maybe then he might listen.

I wish my H did more of the service type things. He never once helped me around the house. But that's not and EN either, that is a love language, right? I don't know how many times I asked him to help me around the house b/c he didn't appreciate everything I did. And do you know what he said....."I don't appreciate what you do around the house. I am just lucky that you do it." I was really upset about this for a long time. Now, this was during the "I fell out of love w/u phase." So I guess that was fog talk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.


Right on again. I never showed a need for him. When he wasn't around, even when he went away with the OW for the weekend, I missed him so much. It felt like something was missing. It wasn't the same without him near me. And that was the longest he's ever been away from me. Now looking back I look like a fool. I rarely told him this but for some reason, I called him that Saturday night he was with OW just to tell him how much I missed him. I guess it didn't even phase him b/c he said, "Oh, you're just calling to check in on me." Back then I didn't know I needed a reason to check in on him. Again, in the fog I guess.

This is so hard for me. I've never felt this way in my life. I hate the feeling. As I've said numerous times, I just want to be me again. I don't know what it will take to get there, but I just want to be me again.

I think once I stabalize emotionally we will do the ENs together. I understand about not being defensive when we do them.

Sometimes I wonder if I would just be happier w/someone else, someone that could treat me so much better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Maybe this is how our WS's felt before they decided to cheat on us, maybe this is how their self-esteem was. It's horrible.

--CO

what's up saenz,

I was just going to come over to your thread to say hi. I read your post earlier.....good for you. I'm glad you are feeling good today.

I'm still feeling like a loser today. I hope this feeling doesn't last too much longer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

Hello CO,

You don't know me 'cuz I've been posting in Recovery, but KiwiJ recommended I look at some of your posts. She thought a FWS's perspective might be helpful to you.

This is a long thread, I couldn't read it all, so I apologize if I repeat things you've already heard. I'd like to start with your most recent post;



You're wrong about this, it fits under Family Committment. A family can be just a H and W, w/out kids. He was not committed to you, his "family."



Wrong again. It's called Domestic Support, and happens to be one of my top 5 EN's.



That means you missed opportunities to show affection, almost always one of men's top 5.



Nope. If you wait for your moods to stabilize, you surely won't heal your M because you'll be dead in your grave from old age. Do it NOW. No offense, but you clearly do not understand EN's enough at this point. And you haven't even addressed LB's I'll bet. Almost everyone in the Recovery section of this forum has an extremely clear understanding of EN's, that's why they're in recovery. You, my dear, are not moving forward in recovery, and from what I read, neither is your H. I STRONGLY suggest you do the EN Questionnaire together, very soon. Don't forget to discuss them when you're done completing it, 'cuz that's where you'll really see the benefits.

You're very depressed, that's very understandable. Ask yourself, "what do I need to do for me, that will get me to a place where I can devote myself to the recovery of my M?" The answer is, whatever it takes. Have you considered asking your MD about anti-depressants? They help "take the edge off," so you can focus. Many people here take them (myself included), and all agree they help with this.

In a much earlier post, you were asking questions about why your H had an A when you thought your M was perfect. My H didn't see my A coming either. He knew we were in need of improvement, but had no idea where I was at. Like Dr. Harley says, no one is immune to having an A, given the right conditions, we are all vulnerable to having an A (that's not a direct quote, but you get the idea). I'd like to share some insight I got from Steve Harley, about why your H had an A. This is also pertinent to preventing yourself from having an A:



I understand that what I did was selfish, immature, and cruel. My H was not meeting my EN's pre-A. Still, these are not reasons or excuses for having our A's. We did not protect our weaknesses, plain and simple. The rest of my life will be filled with conscious efforts of how I am going to protect my weaknesses. Understanding what your weaknesses are isn't enough. You need to have a plan on how you are going to protect them, so that you never have another A.

I'd best stop here or you'll think I'm full of it! Honestly, I don't usually ramble on this much, but sometimes you feel it's necessary in order to get your message through.

Please don't give up on your M. The fact you are both still living under the same roof is a very good thing. Take your R to the next level, do the EN exercises, begin to have constructive conversations. Be kind to one another, respect each other. Keep reading on here (perhaps try the "Recovery section?) for support and advice. Remember, you won't fail, unless you stop trying.

God bless,

KJ

First of all, KJ, thank you so much for that post! I printed it out so I could read it more, and show my H. I had a happy M before my H's affair, and I don't think I am being naive or kidding myself to say that. We were not perfect, certainly, but happy. It is so hard to understand why this has happened. But your quote about not protecting weaknesses turned on a light for me. Thank you so much!

Hey CO--just checking in on you today. How are you doing? I hope that you and your H are still pushing forward. I heard such a good story in church Sunday, and it made me feel a little inspired, so I thought I would share.

The speaker was relating an experience he remembered frm his childhood, where his father had been part of a church group that took turns caring for an onion patch, doing all of the manual work, including watering, weeding, etc. The onions would be harvested and the proceeds donated to the church. It was a large patch, and the father spent his entire Saturday doing back-breaking weeding. At the end of the day, a neighbor said, "Why Henry, why have you wasted your whole day weeding? Didn't you know this patch was sprayed yesterday and all the weeds will be dead tomorrow?" Instead of becoming angry, the father laughed heartily, like it was a good joke on himself. The son later questioned his dad, "How could you have just laughed, after all that time you spent?" The dad smiled and replied, "Son, I wasn't there for the weeds."

The moral of the story, as explained by the speaker, was that in life, we all spend plenty of time in onion patches. (I thought my current situation sounded pretty much like an ugly, weedy onion patch.) But we are not here for the weeds. We are here for God.

How true that is, you know? This experience is not one that either of us chose. This is not a lesson that you or I wanted to learn.

But my H and I are learning to be better spouses and parents. I am learning to forgive and love. I thought that story was a nice reminder to not focus on the weeds. I was not sent to this life to be the victim of an affair! There is a much higher purpose in life, I know that. This is a temporary trial only. I am determined to learn from it an move on.

Anyway, that little story spoke to me and I thought you might appreciate it as well.

God bless,
-C.

KJ,
Thanks for taking the time to help me. I do like getting a FWS's opinion.

Thanks for filling me in on the ENs. I didn't realize those two meant that. I'm glad to know that. Those are definitely in my top 5.


I am on meds. I got on them about a month ago so they should just be "kicking" in. So far they've just made me sleepy, but I'm hoping that is just from starting them.


I guess I wasn't meeting my H's ENs either. I guess it would have helped if he would have told me what he needed. I realize now I did what I THOUGHT he needed. Communication is key. That is where HE went wrong. I would have done anything to make and keep him happy if he would have just asked. Also, he had no problems communicating with OW. I read a lot of the e-mails he wrote her.

What also bothers me about his A is he met this girl and slept w/her on the first night. He sure didn't waste any time. Then he met her again for a "sexfest" for a weekend. It would make more sense if it was like one of those stories about A's and how they start if he would have had a R with OW before jumping in bed w/ a stranger that lives on the other side of the country. Can you say STD???

How am I supposed to be meeting his ENs right now when I can't even help myself? I don't even want to help him right now. I want to help myself. Before all I ever did was drop everything for him. No matter what, I would do ANYTHING for him. But now I have realized I need to be more "selfish" and do things for myself unlike pre-A. It sure didn't get me anywhere anyway. I'm sorry, I just don't feel any sorrow for my FWS. He put HIMSELF in this position and not only HIMSELF, but our family. I'm not about to sit here and give him his ENs now b/c he decided he made a huge mistake. I need time to heal whether he's remorseful or not. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is what I am thinking.

I'm not planning on giving up on the M unless he cheats again or I catch him in another HUGE lie. I just can't take much more of this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

Thanks again for your post and advice.

--CO