I'm done commenting on the whole KJ and nikko situation. I don't have anything else to say.

Things are going pretty well with the recovery. Last night I came to the realization of why I am having trouble forgiving my H. I am a VERY independant person. I HATE depending on anyone but myself and I always put myself in situations where I don't have to depend on anyone else. Well, I realized last night my H was the ONLY one I ever depended on in my life. Because of that I feel I let myself down and I am blaming myself to have ever depended on him in the first place. I feel I have to forgive myself first for depending on him before I can forgive him. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

I also feel and told my H last night I don't think I will ever depend on him again. It is such a sad thought. He told me God can do anything which I agree but I just don't think I will ever depend on him again. I don't want to set myself up again. That is what I feel I did. I think one of the reasons (which I posted sometime ago) I don't trust anyone is b/c I don't depend on anyone. And I was thinking last night and told my H when he told me he fell out of love with me, he sat there and watched me suffer and didn't do anything about it except made it worse by keeping in contact with the OW. I was at the lowest point in my life (even worse than now) and the only person I depended on was the person that put me at that point in my life. That is such a horrible thought. That is why I am blaming myself to even let that happen.

The way I am going to work on this is to just depend and trust in God. He will never let me down and I think once I can forgive myself, I can start forgiving my H. Does that make sense?

I am going to send my H a text message right after I am done on here to let him know I love him and appreciate all of his hard work. That is one thing I am doing today to meet his ENs.

saenz

I will check up on your thread soon. I have to go to work. I hope you had a great weekend!

--CO

you go girl

CO,

As I read your post today, I found it interesting how you went from the word "depend," to the word "trust." Then, I got to thinking about how closely tied these two things really are. Your H crapped all over you (sorry for the crude description, best I can do on a Monday morning!). You have every right to feel like you won't ever depend on him, or trust him again. Gotta be honest though, I bet you do someday. SH told my H and I, trust is the very LAST thing to be restored in a M after infidelity has occured. As you probably already know, 2 years is an average time of healing after an A. Well, if trust is the last thing restored, obviously you've got quite a wait ahead of you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, never say never. Your heart is a long way from forgiveness, much less trust. Let God guide you in your recovery, listen to him, talk to him, follow his lead. You've got what it takes, I just know it.

Good for you for meeting one of his EN's today. If you schedule how you are going to meet at least one of his EN's every day, you'll be surprised how easily it becomes a habit.

Oh, one last comment about how your H reacted on (or near?) d-day. He was in withdrawl and into "fog thinking." Dr. Harley does an excellent job explaining both these things in HN's/HN's. I'm not giving him an excuse for the way he responded, but why he did will be clearer after you read this section of the book. It is so clear to me now, your H is not experiencing w/d symptoms or fog-thinking any longer. He has committed himself to the recovery of your M, 110%.

Prayers for continued success,

KJ

KJ,



I didn't know this. Thanks for that info. I hear about that 2 year "full" recovery thing a lot on these boards. That is such a long time. I dread it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



Yeah, I learned this after finding this site. I wish I would have found it when he told me he fell out of love with me, it would have ended the A earlier and my suffering earlier too. I still don't know how he could sit there and watch me suffer. I could never do that to another human being, let alone my spouse, the one I committed my life to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

I am going to try doing one EN a day for now and see how that goes for me. Mondays are really hard for me, I guess b/c of the weekend and spending every day with my H. Also, I hate waking up in the mornings. It is the worst time of the day for me. I guess it is a fear of what is ahead. As soon as I wake up I think of my H waking up next to the OW. I have to do something to change this thought pattern. Any suggestions??

--CO

CO,

What's wrong hun?! Please talk to me, or someone, about how we just went from talking about making progress to divorce?!

Can you take a deep breath, spend some time alone, take a nap, go see your IC, a family member, your pastor? I'm so worried for you guys right now. Please let us know if there's anything we can do for either of you.



He knows this, and will be doing things that'll hopefully make this time easier for you. Hang tough girl!!

KJ

I'm only on a 15 minute break, so I don't have much time to write. The reason I was talking about divorce was b/c I was venting to my H and he said he didn't want to hear it, that I should call someone else. Well, me being who I am don't like to depend on anybody else or have them listen to my problems. So he said "bye" and I hung up on him. He decided to take the phone off the hook and this really upset me b/c I really needed him at that time and he knew I was going back to work in 10 mins and I wouldn't be able to get ahold of him. So after about the fourth time trying to call and getting a busy signal I went and read his e-mails he wrote to the OW. I actually deleted them from everything I have and we even burned the copies I made. But I knew I could get on his brothers' email and they were on there. I read about 2 of them and I got so disgusted I read them to him on a message on his cell phone. I realized not only did he put our sex drive in a 2 and theirs at a 10 (the BEST in his words), but I guess the OW said her sex drive was a 2 and my H proceeds to tell her his is actually WORSE (he capitalized) than a 2 which is worse than OW's situation. I just feel like such a loser after reading that. I mean, who wouldn't? Not only that but he told her that his life has been so great since she's been in it and he never wants to know what it is like to be without her. Oh, yeah, and also about all the sex they were going to have that weekend b/c he couldn't wait to be with the 10 (the best).

Yeah, I know I shouldn't have read them, but I did. It is my fault I'm at where I'm at....well, not really, I mean, he wrote that horrible stuff. It is my fault that I read them. I DID delete them and I can never see them again. I just can't believe he talked like that with someone he only knew for 1 week....yes, 1 week!!! How could he not feel bad about going to meet another woman for a whole weekend while I stay home w/the kids, but of course offered to take him and pick him up from the airport and book his airfare. I feel like such a fool and I was so played. Now I look back on that time during the affair and I think of all the times he couldn't wait to leave me to e-mail or call her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

Ok, I have to get back to work, just wanted to update for now. I will write more tonight after work!! I was actually crying in the courtroom today. It was horrible. I couldn't stop! I work at the courthouse. I know people noticed. We had about 100 cases this afternoon so the courtroom was packed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

--CO

The both of you should be beaten with licorice sticks! Time for playing ugly is over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Men retreat and women engage. How they deal with crisis and communication is different. If my H behaved like that, I would walk away and wait for him to begin talking to me. Turn your back and walk away, do not chase. Close the door and do your own thing. If he wants to work it out, he knows where to find you. JMHO

Sounds like you are doing well overall. KeEp up the good work! Jersey

CO,

I work in a courthouse too! I only go to court once in a while, for guardianships and protective placements. Not sure why I felt the need to tell you that, maybe I'm trying to get your mind off those horrible emails.

I'm not a BS, so I can't tell you I can relate to your pain, but I want you to know, I'm still pulling for you guys. Reading the emails was stupid, but God knows we all do stupid stuff. Try not to let this set you back too far.

You guys read about Radical Honesty yet?! Tough policy to follow, but absolutely necessary. No games, all honesty and truthfulness.

God bless,

KJ

Here's my H's opinion of radical honesty.....if it will hurt my W, lie if I don't want to answer it, don't remember, if it is about the A, lie, lie, lie!

I guess this is somewhat my fault. When I told him to move back in after D-day 2 I told him I wouldn't ask anymore questions and I didn't want to hear any more about the A. One of the reasons was b/c he was lying about so much. He was sugar coating so much stuff he was telling me and really lying about really cruel things that he didn't even have to lie about. I found out when I read the e-mails I found on D-day 2. Just an example...when we were in the recovery process and I kept asking if he met the OW for that weekend he said, "I would never do that to you. And that weekend alone gave me a lot of time to think of our relationship and how much I loved you and wanted to stop talking to OW." Ok, now why would he even tell me that second part about it gave him time to think about our relationship? I mean, now I know it was a lie. It's kind of hard to think about our relationship when you're with a perfect 10 who*e who's willing to try anything with you!!

Ok, I digressed there, so are you saying radical honesty now or about the A b/c that will never happen. My H will NEVER tell me the whole truth and I will never believe anything he says anyway. Isn't it funny how he doesn't want to tell me b/c supposedly it will hurt me but yet going on a weekend trip with some who*re won't hurt me and writing those nasty e-mails and calling her won't hurt me either???? I guess it's only ok to hurt me if he is benefiting from it.

I am just really thinking of the level he placed our M to do what he did. I mean, a lot of people on this forum built relationships with their OP. My H knew her for 1 week before they started talking dirty and slept w/her on the first night. I just don't understand how something like that is possible if you are happily married. And I asked him if he was happily married when this happened and he said yes. Can anybody explain this situation to me?

It really makes me jealous also b/c one of the e-mails he told the OW he looked high and low for a hotel with a pool so she could strut her stuff for him in her bathing suit. He never ever planned anything for me in the whole time we were married. He never ever told me I was pretty....NEVER!!! He told her how perfect she was just about every e-mail. He also "dedicated" a song to her called "Pretty Girl." Isn't that just so sweet? He dedicated the same song to me years ago before we got married. Oh how I feel so special <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

Not only that, but I LOVE pools!! It has been my favorite thing in life since I was an infant. My H knew this b/c I always told him and anyone who knew me that I was going to get an inground pool and we even searched for a house with a big enough yard for an inground pool. And last year, I got one! Now I am dreading even opening it thinking of how he went out of his way to find one for her. That would have been something I would have really appreciated if he had done it for me.

Ok, I am really venting. Thanks for whoever decided to read all of that. If you have any explanations to it all, please chime in.

And, no, I'm not getting a divorce (although I do want one right at this moment.) I realize my emotions are high so I just will avoid him for the rest of the night. He offered a massage at his job but I turned down the offer. I'm not up to accepting anything from him right now. Yeah, so I'm being a bit*h. I have every right to be!!


KJ,
That's cool that you work in a courthouse too. I do some of those hearings too with guardianships and protective placements.

--CO

Funny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!!

Oh, yeah, any suggestions on how I should be actinng tonight when he gets home? Should I be honest and tell him I don't want to be with him at the moment and tell him how hurt I am from the e-mails? Should I just ignore him?? Any suggestions?? He will be home in about an hour.

--CO

CO, you may never get the whole truth but he needs to answer your questions as you ask them. Period. No ifs ands or buts. KJ, this is where you never having experience as a BS comes in.. CO needs to feel safe with Iam. He is not providing that. I told him as much. CO, you do your best to not LB. You do your best to give a chance to be honest. You do not have to stuff your feelings. You are allowed to tell him frankly and honestly what you need from him. I am going to post a link for both of you to read to another thread.

here is the link What the WS/BS must do to recover

Ok. Here's my suggestion. Set ground rules for the conversation and let him read this post so you both get the same information.

The conversation about todays events has to be safe. Promises up front about no love busters. Take turns talking and be honest. Agree that if one of you gets to a point where you think it's going to be a fight, you take a break and do something else till you've calmed down.

IASS, listen to your wife. Show her you're sorry by listening. Holy cow, if my WW would just listen WITHOUT getting defensive when I share how I feel about OUR situation...

CO, no more e-mail reading.

If the both of you were detached from this situation and were advising a couple that was close friends of yours on a similar matter, you'd be saying the same thing. You two are both in the SAME roller coaster car. AND you're STUCK there till the ride is over. If one of you is down, so is the other one. You can hang on to the cold metal bar or you can hang on to each other.

Another thing. No love busting in the bedroom. You've got to have a safe place in the house.

If that doesn't work, let me know and I'll be over shortly with licorice sticks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

are you ready to get the truth?

what i mean is will you be able to hear it without attacking him? lol we all as bs's have to learn to make it safe for our partners to come clean....extremely hard, i know. and for god's sake please dont use the divorce words if you truely arent on your way to the courthouse at that very minute....your reactions....albeit normal and typical for all of us.....have to change. took me forever to get that one..lol. give him a safety net and let us help with him comming clean....i do believe he should tell you before he tells us.

Faithful,


This is what I have always done. I never had a problem being honest even if it hurts him but lately I was wondering if it was the right thing to do b/c would that be LBing??

Thanks for the link. I really don't think it will do my H any good. He refuses to answer any questions about the A. I'll show him it. At this point, also, even if he answers them, I won't believe him. He has lied to me soooo much!!

--CO

Drexxell,
Thanks for your advice. I think it is very good advice to follow!



The only problem with this is I do admit to getting defensive when I hear the truth. I have a problem with that but then I get over it. I mean, it is really, really hard to hear the truth <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />



I know I promise to all of you and to my H there are no more e-mails. I deleted all of them!! I am proud of myself for that!



This is actually where we do all our talking b/c we have to lock the kids out of the room for some private time. Doesn't that sound really bad....lock the kids out of the room. My 8 year old is really, really nosy and she will do whatever it takes to listen in on us. I understand she is worried about our M, but we have to do, what we have to do.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

--CO

nikko,

First and foremost, thanks for sticking around even after all the negativity that has been going around. Thanks for sticking with me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I'm not sure on the answer for this. I mean, when I hear something, I'm not going to lie I get really, really hurt and make comments and get upset. I do get over it, but if you're asking am I going to sit there and just listen without saying anything, no I can't do that. Does that mean I'm not ready?

It doesn't really matter b/c I don't believe a word out of his mouth anyway. I feel like asking him for the truth is pointless.

Good luck on helping him come clean. Neither my pastor or I could do it. You may think this is extreme but when I found out about some "other" lies after D-day 1 I told him if I found him in anymore "big" lies after that I would divorce him. Do you think this made him come clean......NO!! Not only that but my pastor told him the week before my d-day 2 that he needed to come totally clean and that if there were any revelations, I would divorce him. I told my H about divorcing him in front of my pastor. My pastor gave him an opportunity to think and to come clean on anything else. Did my H come clean....NO! I had to find out for myself AGAIN!!

So I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth!!

--CO

Honesty is not a love buster. Like Nik was saying, don't punish honesty. IASS needs to know he can tell you the truth and not get punished for it. He's already committed the love buster, remember? If you feel it's too much, take a break.

IASS, after you talk to her, give her time to absorb and digest what you've said. Don't press her to tell you what she's feeling. You may walk away with a bloody stub where your head used to be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />