we have him working on honesty with you and you both are doing great.....lets get a list of your questions going so i can work with him and you on accepting them and answering them....what are your top questions right now he is evading....then we will teach you if it is something you really need an answer to to move on...

gonna be out for a bit but will check this when i return....

Hi...I just thought I would stop by and say "Thank you" for every thing you are doing to work thru this devastation I put you in. You have been doing so well and I appreciate all the effort you are putting toward our recovery. I know it would be so much easier for you to quit and walk away. I am very happy to know you are trying to work thru this because I can't think of anything since I have known you that once you started you didn't finish. You are not a quitter and I am so lucky to have you. Thanks again for every thing you have done for me...past... present ...and future! Love you 4 Life...



ps-don't worry I didn't read any of your threads. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I purposely replied to you very first listing to ensure you I am not on your thread to snoop <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Love Ya!

Not that I'm sticking up for him, but I make unnecessary comments and that is what he means by "mean" mode. For example, he will say, "I didn't want to tell you b/c I knew it would hurt you." And my response would be, "Yeah, you know me so well you went and had an A on me b/c you didn't want to hurt me." I just always have a comeback to whatever he says and I get really snippy. If I were him I'd probably tell me off! That is the difference between our personalities.




Again, the LBing I described are my snide comments. Do you think I should really be able to talk that way to my H? I know it is wrong but I have some good comebacks if I must say so <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!!




I meant I didn't LB. I did make some comments so that he knew how hurt I was about certain things he said. I cried too when I heard about the pic of our DDs. I should have said I just stayed calm.



Sorry, I'm not being clear enough. When I said this I meant not throwing it in his face whenever I get angry at him. Yes, I'm sure I will bring stuff up again that is upsetting me, but I understand there is a way to approach it better than I have been.



Yeah, see, this is what I was doing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!!



Yeah, I say this all the time to him. As I said when I posted sometime previously, if he thinks it will hurt me, he lies if it benefits him, same as the A.

Today went pretty good. He gave me a blown-up picture this morning of us from our high school days. It was cute. The only downside to that is I start thinking back to my "happy" days. It kind of depresses me. But it was a good idea for him to do. I brought it to work with me.

That has been pretty much all for today. I'm still processing the info I learned yesterday and I do have some questions which I will post on another post for nikko and whoever else is interested.

Have a good day!!

--CO

nikko,

Ok, here are some of my questions so far.....

1 - Who and at what point in Pittsburgh did H or OW buy condoms? (I just feel I need to explain this.) He told me when he got to Pittsburgh the OW got him a card about love or something <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> and he told her he couldn't accept it and he came clean w/her about our M and our DDs. He says he offered to fly her back to California or get her another room, but of course she willingly accepted his offer to stay for the weekend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />! So after him telling her that, I'm wondering at what point they decided to have sex and who decided. He says she started it, but who had the condoms??

Can I just add a comment here too.....I told him I was very upset at the fact that he gave HER the option to leave or get another room. It was like he was saying to her, "I'm still willing to do this if you're ok with it." He should have already bought the ticket back to California for her or never went to Pittsburgh and stood her up. Well, If I'm going to go there, he should have never had the A in the first place! Ok, just needed to get that out. Onto the next question...

2 - What did he tell OW about me? I want to know specifics of what he said about me and our M. Also, after finding the first e-mail, her wrote to her, "Thanks for listening to all of my drama." I asked him if he meant me b/c he had told me he fell out of love with me and I was a mess trying to get him to fall back in love with me. He says "drama" meant his job. But I don't believe him. I think he was telling her about me. So that is another question I have.

And that is all the questions I have for now. Let me know what you think. I did already mention the questions to H and he said see what MB says, so here I am.

--CO

I just want to post again to tell you guys how appreciative I am for all of the time and effort you are giving me and my H through this difficult time. It almost makes me cry happy tears to know there are so many people out there willing to help us!! Thank you all so much!!

--CO

ok...number one is very important...let me explain...first off....let me answer part of it for him if i may....they decided to have sex way before either of them got there...that was the plan. you know that allready.him saying it wont make much of a difference here. important part is....DID SOMEONE BUY CONDOMS????? sorry isnt gonna like me or this but i pray to god you and he have been tested. if not do it and make him do it right now!!!!if he refuses tell him you gave me your address.....lol too many people here have horror stories about std's. even if he used a condom get checked please..... my hubby lied about it. many do. its not worth the risk. calmly tell him its a step you need.(the tests)

#2---think about this one....you allready know the answer....especially since he doesnt want to answer. he told her horrible things about you....and now knowing your a bit sarcastic like someone else i know...some of its probably true. lol my hubby told his ow i was the devil incarnate. most evil witch walking the face of the earth...that i left a scorched path of destruction in my wake.....lol....she didnt believe him and came after him again after he broke it off....i proved him right. asked her what part of me being super-bit*h didnt you understand??? then went on to explain how i planned on ruining her life....and i had the power to do it...lol

think about number two....he told her you were horrible and your marriage sucked....they all do. its pretty typical for most active ws's. if after thinking on it for a bit you still wanna here the stuff he said...then ask. but i think you know....its how he justified it to himself....

ok...now i have a question...exactly how much of a control freak is your hubby? if im off with that one let me know....just a feeling i have but its important....

i have baseball in a bit so i will check in later

Yes, I do know this already but what I didn't know until yesterday was that he came clean with her the first night and I know he didn't buy condoms b/c I would have seen them in his bag and if he was truly feeling guilty why would he go buy condoms afterwards when he came clean. See my point?? Just trying to get his thinking pattern down and before you comment, I know I will NEVER get it down. I am just curious.



He promised me and our pastor that he had a condom on everytime. Then again he promised us both there were no more lies and D-day 2 hit the next week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. The only option I have with this is taking his word. There is no way I can prove it. Trust me, if there was a way, I would find it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! Both he and I did get checked. Thanks for your concern.



No I don't know the answer. I want the truth from him. And, honestly, I have never been sarcastic to him before this happened. I don't mean to sound conceited, but I can't think of one thing he could complain to her about me. Ok, there is one thing, our sex life. And I already know he told her I was worse than a 2. I admit I wasn't into the whole sex thing too much. I was too exhausted by the time I got to bed. But, anyway, I did EVERYTHING for him. Just for an example when he told me he fell out of love with me I asked him what I did wrong and he couldn't come up with one single thing. He finally came up with, "You complain too much." Hello, welcome to girls 101 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Anyway, I mentioned this previously, but I was such a great wife to him pre-A. He was really, really spoiled. I have supported him financially for about 4 years now while he worked part-time. I did everything around the house. All he did was take the trash out. I threw him a HUGE surprise party last April for his 30th b-day and get this, the year before for our anniversary I surprised him with a trip to California to go to a Raiders game b/c that is his favorite team. He never planned one thing for me the whole time we were married. He never helped me around the house and there's no way he would have gotten to go on either of his A trips if it wasn't for my money. I'm sorry I just take offense to people thinking I did anything wrong in our M pre-A. I sacrificed so much for my H and he did so little for me. If you don't believe me, ask him.



He's actually not too bad. I mean, he doesn't like if I talk or even look at a guy and if a guy calls just to say hi, he gets really upset. Is that what you're talking about?

If you mean being clean and tidy, that's not my H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

I still want to ask my questions.

--CO

Strangely enough I spoke to Dr H today - asked him questions about me changing my response to things that are sensitive to me and bother me - he said I shouldn't try to change - those things and happenings were not of my making and if my husband wanted them to stop he should change his job and we should move to another town.. I kept telling him how at last he had got it I think, and Dr. H said then, it will be two years before you are healed from the time he stopped the hurtful behaviour. EA stopped and radical honesty etc etc. I do have the radical honesty now, but he never ever did any kind of NC letter to anyone.

So your husband's answer right from Dr. H's own mouth is to do what his books say, radical honesty - nothing less and consistent radical honesty - no holds barred about you making changes to try to desensitize yourself - if it is true for me 4 years in - it is true for you right now at the beginning.

I just wanted tips on how to desensitize myself to stuff that stops me enjoying activities I trusted him for us to do together, that have, as his wife said - associations from the past and are tainted. I was surprised when he went all radical on me and said "Move to another town - you don't need to change. You will be reminded of it all the time, if you want to feel better you have to move, it is what I suggest all the time now". In essence, I will not feel better and not expected to until two years from when FWH made all the changes HE needed to help us heal.

He meant when he stopped the last EA, stopped blaming me for being upset - feeling it was some kind of attack and allowed me to feel my pain. When he consistently gave me radical honesty without any strings, promises or time limits. I should not be trying to change me to tolerate the pain he caused and it repercussions for FWH's comfort.

I was disappointed as I really believed if I could find a way to feel comfortable it would help us. On the good side he did say what I felt inside but didn't think was correct after so much time MB. I am normal and not over sensitive or over reacting - woohoo - now what to do?

So tell your husband what Dr. H said to me today. In fact one better I will go and post this to his thread.

LindaBB

Oh my word he is only 30? I didn't read your bio - yes you did do one thing wrong - out of love and youth, you let him live like an eight year old - no responsibility - rewarded for being a lazy man whom said you were a two in bed - That shows he must be a two himself or you would have relaxed and learned from him. No reciprocation of loving surprises and you trusted him and rewarded him for being that selfish.

Mom's usually teach their boys to be good men. So did you take over straight from his Mom - only sex with his boring exhausted psuedo Mom was boring for him, so he judged YOU a two!!

Hmm he has a long way to go - no wonder he thinks your pain is an attack - he has never learned the laws of consequences or loving reciprocity. Tell me - was he - is he the apple of his Mom's eye? Do they think you are the problem as you hurt so much he has had to move in and out more than once.

Are they frustrated - or are they on his A....?

So he spent the first years of your narriage training you to be his other Mom with sex -= that isn't marriage - that is a Mom with benefits.

No wonder -

You will be OK - it will just take a while for him to grow up - he is in for some rough rides - learning things other men know before they are 16 is hard when you think you know it all and are not the one with the real problem - you are over the pain you caused - why isn't she? Why won't she get with the program - that's three or four nice things I have done in our marriage now?!?!

Tell him to buckle his safety belt - it is going to be a fast - rough ride if he intends to do what he must to mend this M.

SP

ok...after chewing on it if you still want the answers...then ask. what you will find is he picked on ANYTHING he could whether it was valid or not. but you do have the right to the answers if you feel you need them. lets say you find out he made up all kinds of crap...what will you do with that info? anything he said to her was for one purpose only....to get sympathy from her and keep the connection.

great on being tested....that is very important.

i didnt mean to give you the impression i thought you did anything wrong in your marriage. to me its moot anyway....nothing you did could cause an affair. it was purely his choice. his choice only. even if you were a walking nag....he made the choice.....what you need to figure out is what will the answers to these questions solve for you and where do you go from there?

your doing great....

EXACTLY. Including the statement that his wife was a 2 in the sex department.

silver,



Yes, I know, I know. I learned this too late <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />! But things are changing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! I learned my lesson through all of this too!



A mom with benefits. That is exactly what I was. Where were you a couple years ago to knock some sense into me?? I never thought of it that way.....a mom with benefits.....interesting!

I think this whole thing made him realize all of this too. He has really been helping me around the house and doing stuff for me all the time now. I hope it stays that way!!

--CO

Well, if it wasn't true and I wasn't a 2, why didn't he invite me to Pittsburgh??? That is why I think it is the truth. If he would have told me, we could have fixed it!!

Well, things have been going well thanks to all of you guys. My H has been answering my questions for me and I have been taking them well. I don't hold them against him and I don't make snide comments about them either. It takes me a while to actually process the answers, but when I do it is painful.

I did ask him if he said anything mean about me to OW and he said no, that he never talked about me. Maybe he is lying, who knows, but that's what he says.

As Glad mentioned previously, we put a time limit on the questions. I am allowed to ask what I feel I need to ask by Thurs. of next week. We gave it a one week timeframe. What do you guys think about that? I think that gives me enough time to think over things and ask any questions I feel I need to ask. And I will not be asking any sexual details. I did ask him one about something him and I do together but that was it. I think my questions are "legitimate" questions. I'm not sure he feels the same way, but him and I don't think the same.

I must say I do feel much better being able to ask him things and getting answers. Before I would get so upset about him not answering and it would make me soooo angry. Now that he is answering it makes me feel better, even hearing the horrible details, I am just happy to get the truth out of my H (At least I hope it's the truth <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

So I want to thank all of you for getting my H to be more open with me, especially KJ, nikko, Glad and silver. I'm sure there are others too! Thanks!! I have to get to work now. Have a good day!

--Sarah (That's my real name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

sarah---i think that agreement is a mistake. what happens in the future...two weeks, two months, two years.....when you have a question, and you will....is your plan to just stuff it? and if thats the plan how do you plan to deal with the following resentment your gonna build and how exactly is this following honesty and OPENESS?? he is willing to give you one week of openess and your good with that??? why? why do you feel you dont deserve openess for life?

i understand the desperatness of wanting the honesty NOW, i get the willingness to agree to almost anything to get the answers to what has haunted you for so long.....but what about this agreement builds the future.....

you guys are doing great and its a beginning...but we have to get you both to think LONG TERM....and i know how hard and scarey that is.....

CO, this is what I posted to your H Don't sell yourself short.

I understand what you're saying about the long term. But how can we start working on our marriage if I am still asking questions about the past? When does it end? When we were counseling with our pastor he told us we have to get to the foundation and then once we are there, we need to start working on our marriage and leave the past behind, not forget it, but leave it behind.

I called my H after reading your replies and he said you guys also replied to him the same way. He said we will both sit down and talk about it and decide what we think is best for BOTH of us. He said nikko said about him setting his expectations up again about my agreement to not ask questions. And I totally see your point....very good point. It is something my H and I have to discuss. We both mistook earlier posts about the timeframe thing.

Thanks for all your suggestions!

--Sarah

Faithful,



Very good suggestion!! Now I think my H and I both got the timeframe thing down you guys are talking about. I guess we're both slow learners <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

hang in there sarah....we all learned the same way---it is great that the two of you are really working together as a team.....but there are steps. and unfortunately us long timers here have seen the fall out from cutting corners. if you feel like you could really agree to something like that...who am i to tell you different. i just know from experience that knowing i can go to my husband at anytime...ABOUT ANYTHING, INCLUDING HIS AFFAIR.....even five yrs later....IS WORTH ANYTHING IN THE WORLD. i just dont want to see you get in the habit of stuffing....and i want you to have the kind of marriage that openess and honesty is given freely and willingly...out of love. you BOTH deserve that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

nikko,

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think when we have our talk I will bring up the timeframe thing like you guys are talking about.

I think what I do is when I make commitments like "I won't ask anymore questions about the A in a week" It kind of makes me feel restricted too, which is what I want. I truly don't want to ask anymore questions and keep bringing up the past. I want to be able to just stop with the questions and work on our M. I guess that is an unreasonable expectation on my part also. Do you know where I'm coming from??

--Sarah