Hi Sarah,

Beautiful name...my 3 yo is named Sarah too. It is funny that you gave your name, because just last night as I prayed for you I was praying for "CO" and thinking I wish I knew your name, but I knew God knew your name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am having a busy, fun week with my mom here to help me with the girls. I got a day to myself where I got my hair done and bought some summer clothes. Always a treat! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted you to know that I popped in to see how you two are doing. You both are getting such wonderful support here, but more importantly, you two are both listening and applying...that is the key that will make you successful.

So proud of you, Sarah! I feel encouraged to be allowed to share in your story. It reminds me of where I was and where I have come and also being back on MB more frequently again has reminded me to not get slack in the daily marriage building in my own marriage. It is a daily conscious decision and proactive work to keep the marriage healthy after healing takes place.

Blessings to you today
((((((((Sarah)))))))
---Michele, thats my name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Glad

do i get it...yeah. i was so determined to ignore it and move on i gave myself a nervous breakdown. you will learn in time that the questions are normal.....they will also start to come less and less....you will need answers less and less....but that will come with his willingness.

at this far out do i still get a question that pops up....sur, we all do....do i ask anymore....no. i have what i need and i know its just my mind working overtime. but i only got this way after i knew i could go to him with anything. it takes time and the "two yr" mark we all talk about is pretty right on. i also know that were your at right now, the beginning of that timeline, sucks to think about. it is not usually like this the whole two yrs. it really gets better week by week. that is when both parties are in agreement and working towards a common goal and working together...that is what you are both learning to do right now...good job!

hello all, CO i see we are using sarah now. huh wonder why is there an internal thingy happening in there?

silver:
you i must say hit me in the heart as well as in the head w/ your statment of how sarah's husband treated her like a
"mother w/ benifits" i have sat here 4 a few a little while and woke up from my daze by a phone call from my W and my 1st words to her where "sorry 4 treating you like a "mother w/ benifits" as pose to a W. silver you deserve a gold star.

and from the bottom of my heart i THANK YOU for that comment
i will NEVER treat my W like that again. so thank you and thank you sarah for having this wonderfull thread. we learn something new everyday its what we do w/ that knowledge thats inportant!!!!

so hows everyone doing today?

sarah i think it would be good to try to not think or talk about the A for alittle while and try to just focas on what makes you guys happy. i know thats what i've been doing and it feels good.

CO,



Before the trip to Pittsburg, he may have felt you were a "2", but it might not have been for the reasons you are thinking. Before his trip, how do you think your H would have answered these questions:

How was your sex life before this trip?

What condition was your M in?

Now, your answers could very well be very different from his. And his answers would most likely be very different NOW than back then. In retrospect, I'm guessing your H was not satisfied with either of the above.

Assuming your H's EN for SF wasn't being met (and that is an assumption on my part, so please correct me if I'm way off), and assuming he had other EN's that weren't being met pre-A, this causes a M to be weak. It creates building material for having an A.

Now, before you or anyone else jumps down my throat, please understand something VERY improtant. I believe in what I've just told you, but all this said, I also believe the condition of your M pre-A, is not, and was not, an excuse for your H to have an A. He made a conscious decision to have an A. He did not protect his weakness. His weakness was not asking you to be the person to go with him to Pittsburg. It was his weakness not asking you for help in meeting his needs. It was his weakness when he sought out someone else to meet his most important EN's. Your H is weak. You are weak. We all have weaknesses. Sadly, some of us chose the worst possible means to get our EN's met, but when these needs are getting met, there's this incredible rush, an addictive sensation of pure and utter bliss. You wouldn't be human if you didn't find this feeling euphoric. Here comes the good part....

Because you and your H have decided to recover in your M, in time, the person your H is going to feel euphoric with, is YOU!! I know it's so very difficult to believe this right now, and for the life of me, I don't know why God has blessed me with this insight, but I know it to be true. I know, without a doubt, that God will reward all of us BS's and FWS's for our committment to our marriages. We might not see or feel his blessings for quite some time, but I believe it will come. You must be christian, because you speak about your pastor helping you, and your H attends a men's support group at church. Well, your faith is being tested now as it will never be tested again. God knows this is the worst thing you have ever experienced in your life, and ever will. He's working through you and through your H right now. If you open your eyes, you'll see it. If you open your ears, you'll hear it. If you open your mind, your heart will follow.

Praying for you always,

KJ

Michele (nice to know your name too),

That's cool your DD has the same name as me. I don't meet too many people w/my name.

I decided I just don't like to think of myself as CO everytime I write. I am an actual person, know what I mean? It just feels less personable to me.

Good to hear you're having a fun week with your mom!! I'm sure your children are enjoying it just as much!!

--Sarah

saenz,

Yeah, that whole mom with benefits really hit home with me. I take full responsibilty for allowing my H to take advantage of me in that way!

Good for you for noticing that was a fault of yours. That's a big step for you!

--Sarah

KJ,



My H's answer would be our sex life was very predictable probably a 2 in his opinion b/c he thought I didn't enjoy it (he tells me this now).

My answer would be good enough for me. I was way too warn out to think about sex by the end of the night. Sleep was more important to me.



My H's answer would be GREAT!! We had a great M, never argued, got along GREAT, never any problems between us. We spent a lot of time together and did a lot of things with the family. He did mention recently that I didn't show him enough affection, but I never did since I can remember and he never told me he needed it. He never showed me any either but I could have cared less b/c we had fun together and got along so well.

My answer would be GREAT!! I was on cloud 9 with our M. I thought I was living the fairytale. I had everything I ever wanted....a nice house, great job, faithful H (so I thought), beautiful healthy children, GREAT family, inground pool (my dream). I actually often thought, "this is too good to be true, something has to go wrong" and, bam, it sure did. I just would have never expected it to be an A.

I think you should ask my H what his answers are. I think I will ask him tonight too to see if I am right. I know I did ask him if he wasn't happy with our M when he had the A and he said he was very happy, so don't know??

I hope he does feel euphoric with me. I always had that feeling for my H. I always thought "Nobody will ever come between us, we are so happy." I guess I should have been saying, "I am so happy." Even when my H was in Pittsburgh I missed him so much. I even called to tell him. Whenever he wasn't with me (anywhere I went, grocery shopping, work, friend's house) I always felt something was missing without him around. I loved him soooo much!!! I never wanted to hurt him or lose him and I always thought about him even before myself in whatever situation I was in. Even if somebody was trying to hit on me I would think, "What would H think." I wouldn't do anything I thought he wouldn't approve of.

Oh, well, I could go on and on, but I'm sure nobody really wants to hear all of this.

Talk to you all later.

--Sarah

A pastor at my church that has counseled my H and I a few times said to my H that he should never "expect" nor "demand" that I not ask questions. EVER. He once had a very brief EA over 20 years ago. Though it is rarely discussed these days, his W did just last year ask him a question about the A. He used himself as an example of what my H needs to do from now on. Answer them as they come.

Well I am here now and not alone - we are all here with many different life experiences to pull from to help you ..

So, do not put any restrictions on when and what you can ask. Just use your own judgement to stop if you see he is getting nasty in response to it. This way you are in charge - and that is what you need. He has had his time in charge of the affair. You can say something like "I can see this is activating you to feel attacked a lot, so for now let's leave this and pick it up at another time."

Don't hold back any questions - strangely enough the questions I feared the answer to the most, sexual and badmouthing, were the ones that even though they were horrible =- seemed to be the first ones to disappear - what helped me hugely, was going to IC and doing anger and grief work to let it out.

I could feel when he was telling the truth - and I am sure you will too - trust that alarm feeling in your heart - if it triggers when he is answering you, you inate knowledge of his behavioural responses is warning you, without you having to think about it.

When this happens, just tell him - "You are witholding the truth so we will come back to this another time," and drop it for then.

You cannot turn of the need to know - it turns itself off. So stuffing it, thinking it will help you to move forward is not good. Our first MC told me, like your Pastor, "You have to comparmentalize your pain, so you can go forward" - not true - wrong answer. Dr. Harley told me that yesterday.

It will take time and the sooner he tells the truth and the whole truth and you get to express all you need in IC or to him or tearing up 'phone books or chopping down trees - the sooner you will feel better.

You CAN work on yourself and your marriage building while getting answers - I know it sounds contrary - but you can do it - I have faith in you both ...

Regards,

Linda

Ok everyone,

I have something to ask! Before I proceed, please don't get mad at me (I don't think you will) but I found a picture of the OW on the internet. She is actually much more attractive than what he says. Now, I can't see her body, just her face. Also this is her bio:

"About me:
If you want to know something ask me...but I'll give you a head start I like to drink, clubbing, dance, hang out, spend time with my girls and luv to flirt with the boys"

Isn't that sweet? Sounds just like the girl you'd want to bring home to mom <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />!

Ok, my question is, do I tell my H that I saw the picture? I'm afraid he will get mad at me for digging further. Another thing is I don't know if I can hide this info from him.

What do you all think???

BTW, I set up an acct under a guys name and wrote her a message. I figure I can at least keep updated on her whereabouts:)

--Sarah

Ok, I just talked to my friend and she had a good point. She said I shouldn't keep in contact with the OW b/c then she will always be PRESENT in my life. I think I won't do that. I can just check her profile from time to time.

--Sarah

ok--number one...if we are counseling him on being open and honest....why would we tell you any different???? of course tell him...it was a normal thing to do...look her up i mean. now as to contacting her....ARE YOU NUTS!!!!LOL if we are trying to get him to go no contact...how would you contacting her be any different. you are dragging her back into your marriage. let it go. and dont go revisit her again. she is not worthy of your time. yes its natural curiosity....but you cannot break NC. that is for everyone involved!!!(i think you know this....lol)

nikko,

Thanks for your quick reply. I was thinking the same thing about being open and honest. I will tell him when he gets home (which will be any minute). I agree about the NC thing. When I found the picture my mind just went crazy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! I know it will be hard for me to not check her profile every now and then though. I am going to have to be really, really strong for that. What if she posts new pics of her body? I want to see.

Oh, BTW, I was thinking today before I saw the pic that I don't believe what H is telling me. He has been answering my questions, but for some reason I don't feel he's being truly honest yet. I think he is still sugarcoating.

For instance, he told me when they were in Pittsburgh he never told OW how good she looked, not once. I find that hard to believe when it is all he talked about in the e-mails. He also told me that he never said anything about me. What normal girl wouldn't ask about the M and if he wasn't happy, etc., etc. And I know she wasn't a "normal" girl, but don't you think she would have asked??

Also, he told me they didn't have anything planned together for the future but in the first e-mail I ever found he told her this: "Life is gonna be GREAT with you. I can't wait. I love you so much. Can't wait to see you again."

It just doesn't add up to me why he would say that if they weren't planning on a future together. Am I just being paranoid??

--Sarah

Ok, he's really, really mad at me. I told him over the phone b/c he just called me and he is NOT HAPPY at all. He said he is moving forward and I am moving behind. All I could think of was that he's mad that now I know she's not unattractive as he's been telling me. I just don't know what to think.

Also, I have been wanting to go to the Oprah show for a long time now and my friend called me yesterday and said we should go over my b-day b/c I don't want to be around here then b/c of what happened last year on my b-day (H told me he fell out of love with me).

So I told my H about her idea and he got all mad at me b/c he said he was going to plan a trip there for me with him. Well, I told him I'd rather go with her. And he is really mad at me about it b/c I don't want to go with him. I know this is probably rude but he had 8 1/2 years to plan something for me and not only that he could have taken me to NY (I offered to go, he told me not to) or Pittsburgh but I wasn't good enough then. Now all of a sudden, I am just supposed to go b/c he wants to take me. I just feel too little too late. I don't even want to go with him anyway. He had more than enough opportunities to take me. Am I just being rude?

I'm also wondering if he is just doing this b/c he wants to control me. He never let me go anywhere when we were married before. He always came up with some lame excuse when it came down to me going somewhere that I would feel guilty and not go. Get this, I never once went anywhere overnight without him....NEVER!! I tried, but like I said he always came up with a reason for me not to go.

Well, don't know what to think. Any opinions?


--Sarah

this is why the questions wont stop in a week....lol. he is giving you pieces right now...some of them may, and i say may cause i have no idea really......still be sugarcoated. as you get the pieces you will naturally also get a bigger picture....and it goes on, and on.lol its all normal and natural.....what he told you doesnt seem to match what you "saw" in the e-mail. that leads to another question....this is the process of rebuilding trust in his honesty....once he realizes that it all has to match and make sense to you...then you will start to believe what he says.

like i said earlier...my hubby was horrible with honesty...it took him forever to get it....it took years. that is called dying a death of a thousand cuts.....lol however i got better at knowing what was truth and not....i got better at deciding what we would move foward with...i finally healed enough to realize that what i didnt know wasnt as important anymore and as long as from today foward i was getting 100% honesty....i let it go. he does know, however, any lies from this point on...im gone. with my hubby i learned to watch his actions more than his mouth....for me it helped. he was living in integrity and doing what was needed for our recovery...i had to learn to let certain things go. this however was after 4 years of working on it...lol

and about being paranoid...i would be more worried about you if you weren't right now...:) you are learning how to protect you. right now its all you have....with work, someday he will be your protector again....

leave the website alone...she truely aint worth it. she is an unhealthy, unbalaced woman who deserves pity....not your valuable time...

I just don't have the patience to keep dealing with lies and I don't even know they are lies. This all just frustrates me. Like I say in my signature line....."will never know the whole truth"

This whole recovery thing is really hard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I never imagined it would be this hard!!

I envy the people that have made it through these first stages!!

--Sarah

Sarah - I've been reading both threads, but not commenting. But I am somewhat concerned for your marriage. I think you have put much more effort into the marriage than your husband has, and that is not a good thing.

Women who are more invested in the marriage teach their husbands a sense of entitlement. To make a marriage work, both people have to pitch in.

I think you should spend your birthday with him, and let him start putting in some effort. You have made everything too easy for him.

I could write a ream that is the same as nikko - don't contect her in any way. it is natural for you to be curious - he is not being honest and is trying to stop you getting the information he has.

Just let him get on with it - he is the one refusing to free you from the past with his dishonesty and desire to shut you up about asking what he did.

If you want, I can give you the number to call Dr. Harvey (it is a free call) and tell you when to call to get through and then you can ask him yourself if you should be expected to be healed and put it all away and your husband be able to shut you up using your own fear of protracted pain and his desire for control of your healing to do it.


How about it - do you think that is what it is going to take for you to feel allowed to ask and be told with no restraints and for you and your husband to be able to work within the process that works.

Please trust the process.

Linda

ok...first off you have to wait to have these talks if you can till you guys are face to face. blindsiding him on the phone is not the best way to go. for him or you. for him its obvious...he doesnt want to deal with it at all.thats normal...we are working on that with him. but for you also...you lose the ability to look into his face and see his reaction. the reaction sometimes is all you need to know if they are lying or not. learn to control yourself and you will get better at reading him.

as far as him moving foward and you moving back...no right now he is RUNNING foward as fast as he can to get away from it all, and you are still trying to piece your reality together. and yes if he lied about how she looked, he is mad you found out different.
my hubby told me his ow was "HOT". well the description i got from others...who by the way didnt know anything was "she looked liked she was rode hard and put away wet...." (hard and rough looking for non horse people...lol)
so what she looks like is subjective....
ok...i dont think married people really should go away anywhere without their partners....but i also think it shouldnt be controlled out of fear. it should be something both wants. these little things you say about the past is why i asked you how much of a control freak he is. i am still getting the feeling he needs to be in control. when you answered about it the first time you talked about cleaning and such. i think that is more obsessive/compulsive than control. usually mistaken for each other. i didnt get the impression he was a neat freak...just that he likes to run the show or look like he is. and if you were being a mother figure to him...well rebelling and control is normal for that type of relationship.

now i am having a hard time with something....all these little stories that are comming out of your previous marriage really dont sound all that wonderful. please dont take this as an attack...but i think you were looking at your marriage with rose colored glasses or denial. if you want to yell at me for that, its fine....but please look at what you've posted....in one post it was the best and everything was great pre A....then you tell us something like this and it sounds like you are very resentful of him stopping you from doing the things you wanted and the way he stopped you sounds very passive aggresive. i think you really need to revisit the marriage pre A and really admit to yourself the problems...that way they can be fixed and you dont have to live that way anymore.

oh and on recovery being hard.....yep, hardest thing in my life after d-day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Nikko,



Is there any chance he is running forward because he truely wants the marriage to begin healing?

I like both of these people. I think it's safe to say they've both done some not-so-effective things thus far in their recovery. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Sarah's H might be lousing things up left and right, but how do we know he doesn't believe he is sincerely trying to recover his M?

I'm not sure where they are at with SH conversations, but I really wish both of them would consider seeking out his advice right now. Their M is headed downhill fast, and I believe SH could create a diversion to this hill.

Just my .02 for the day. Gotta get back to my OM.

Gottcha!! My OM today is six, and he has a bummer of a cold. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

KJ