Sorry I didn't reply to this - I just read it - my FWH and I have only just got to the point where he sees himself, so as I can see any light at the end of the tunnel and the day you posted was, his "finally out of the fog" day, something Dr. Bill said to me got through to him... I guess like I said to Sarah ... and it got to you .

I was thinking she hadn't posted and reading back through the thread, when I saw this post. So thanks for letting me know it helped.

Linda

Hey KJ, I am sorry to have hurt you so bad - I still believe what I said, but forgot you are in a different place than me - I used to be there and remember how it hurt - years of therapy make you able to say and think - "Thank You" when you get feed back .... even if you don't agree with it at the time - usually there is something that can help you see your way a little clearer.

You are a valuable person - whatever mistakes you make or write - don't ever forget that - we only give feedback to those we value - those we don't value - we ignore - think about it.

So I am sorry I squished your feelers - Linda

Hi Sarah,

Checking on you...

Today I want to tell you to have COURAGE to persevere through this yuck. Here is a quote that I have above my kitchen sink:

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I will try again tomorrow.

Hang in there honey....
Blessings,
Michele

Sarah,
I know anger is crushing you right now.

Have you been back to the counselor or your pastor recently? This is the time to go weekly without fail. It is too hard a situation to handle on your own without someone guiding you and encouraging you through it on a very regular basis. Please see IC if you can't handle going together for MC right now.

Remember I told you I had IC every week for 2 months before I could handle MC together.

Do not let this darkness of anger swallow you up, Sarah. Don't let satan win this battle. God is bigger and more powerful and more comforting and more capable and more loving and stronger than any of this yuck. Climb in His lap and rest in His arms.

During an IC before we started going together, she described to me the visual that I was in the desert, so picture myself in the desert. But I am not alone. Jesus is walking in the desert with me. Feel the sand between my toes. I was in the desert and it was black night but Jesus was there leading me to water and light.

I am very visual and visuals really helped me to process better and understand my feelings better.

(((((Sarah))))
Talk to me, I will listen to your vents and your hurts.
I believe in you.
Keep looking up.

Blessings,
Michele

First let me say I haven't posted since Sunday b/c I've been very down and depressed. I hate talking to people when I am in this state and I hate talking about anything when I get like this. This is how I've always been. I like to keep to myself b/c I don't like to be "counseled" when I am down. As I said before, I don't like to depend on ANYBODY!!

Linda,


Yes, you're right on!


Yes, thank you for clarifying this for me. This is exactly how I feel and I don't think KJ got it, but you are right on!!

KJ,


No, I'm not happy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I appreciate your advice as a FWS. Everyone here has an opinion, just b/c they don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't appreciate your advice. You still with me??

Michele,

Here is my problem: My main trigger is my H! I hate looking at him. I hate being with him. I hate going on "dates" with him. I hate waking up next to him. I hate how I used to be happy. I hate it!!! I hate it!!! I hate it!!!

Angry, yeah I'm angry. My life has changed FOREVER!!! I can't enjoy a movie the way I used to. I can't look at my H the same. I can't love my H the way I once did. I can't wake up in the morning anymore knowing I have everything I ever wanted. I can't take a shower and think how lucky I am to have everything I ever wanted. I can't pray to God and thank him for my faithful H. I can't, I can't, I can't and I don't think I ever will!

Is this venting b/c I am just getting started!!

I still don't feel my H is being honest. There is NO WAY he is and I am done trying to fight for this M without the truth! I've had it!! One of the main things that hurts me is knowing my H had no respect for me or our M before. He tells me he never thought of how the A would affect me. Well, what normal person would not know how an A would affect a spouse?????? Especially since he planned a weekend rendevous with his g/f and had that whole time to think about it and expecially since he had all of that time on the plane to think about it.


And let me guess, he just took his wedding ring off and didn't think about it once. Well, that doesn't make sense to me. That is a huge contradiction. If you hadn't thought about the affects of an A, why take your wedding ring off?

Also, he knew the affects b/c the week after his rendevous with his g/f he told me he fell out of love with me. Of course I suspected an affair and I cried soooo much to him. At one point I even broke down crying and said, "I'm sorry, I just can't do this anymore. I think you're cheating on me or have cheated on me." His response was, "Don't think that. I would never do that to you. That's not true." Ok, I'm thinking he could have seen the affects by that time. But, no, he still continued to call and e-mail her.

Also, the next day he got back from Pittsburgh we were in the car and I said to him, "I just want you to know if you ever cheat on me, I will leave you. These people that stay with their spouses are crazy." He said, "Oh, is that all I have to do to get rid of you (joking)" And I said, "You never know what you have until it's gone." And he could have cared less. He just continued to call and e-mail her, but that's right he didn't know the affects the A would have on me. I think I laid it out pretty clear, don't you??

And, yes, I'm sure a lot of you will say, "Well, that's typical WS behavior." But remember, my H knew her for a week when he invited her with him to Pittsburgh and he says he DIDN'T love her. Gosh, he DIDN'T even know her. I can kind of see the whole "accidentally" falling in love with someone you have a relationship with, but someone you've only known for a week....I don't think so!! He DID NOT care about me one ounce.

Why should I continue to fight for this M if, number 1 he can't be honest, and number 2, he didn't respect me??

Sorry, but I'm ready to just give up. I can't do this anymore. I don't even enjoy being with him!

Please don't bash me. I can't handle that right now. I am looking for constructive critism.

--Sarah

Sarah,

1. You are dealing with a Passive Aggressive behaviour patterns. Everything hurts do much when you have no bruises to show for the pain. When he goes over and over how he is just trying to be nice to you etc. etc.

2. Under all anger is fear and pain. I think you know that - I wish I could just walk into your home and hold you so tight for so long you would physically feel that you cannot fall - there will always be a soft place for you to rest and be refreshed. Where all you have to do is be you - whatever that is right now.

What you are feeling is a stage - it is the "righteous indignation" as spoken of in the bible. Jesus felt it when he went into the temple and saw the money launderers ripping off the faithful and He let them have it.

You are feeling it at the realisation of all the bare faced, innocently, blithely put, lies you dealt with when you were hurting so much and said the strongest things you could to get through to him - even then .... AND HE LIED and LIED and LIED ..... safe in his fog - thinking he was "in charge" and "Innocent" ... justified in his A. When he told you he had fallen out of love with you - in his fog - he thought he was doing something honest. When they are in the fog black is white and white is black, any rules are OK - they make no sense ...............

- THEY MAKE NO SENSE - NO SENSE !!!! YOU CAN FEEL IT !!! NO SENSE !!! ................... we feel it with you .............. and you are left so angry ............... and so hurt ................ and so sad .......... and so broken ..



and the only thing you can feel after the initial pain and the realization of all this is - ANGER!! at anything he says ANGER! at anything he does ANGER! at the very sight of him ..

here is the big one .... because your rules for life are up side down ... you psyche is up side down .... we understand ... we have been there ...... we did this too .....

Now you can cry - now you can let out the pain and howl to the wind - let the tears out - all the disappointment - all the betrayal - all wasted attempts to get him to tell you the truth early on - let the tears come and you will put out the fires of anger which are covering the pain - anger is like a last emotional resort - but when you just - let out the tears - it will empty the anger from you and whatever you decide - you will have some peace from it driving you ...

God bless you - I have been there and was stuck for a while too ... several weeks ... I held it in a lot as we are told to - then the ulcer showed me I had to let it out - hearing you tell of your anger brings it back as if it were three weeks ago, instead of three years. Crying washed away my anger when the dam broke - it was such a relief - I must admit it WAS more like howling - but nuff said about me in the therapist's office.

if any of this makes sense Sarah - please make a urgent appointment with your or another counsellor to do some anger work, so you can feel better - I put mine off, sure I could handle it and so suffered longer than necessary - this is a normal stage, but getting the right help sooner will ease the stress of being in it. I got to the point that all WH said was surreal - like a wild off the wall joke - ludicrous statements came out of his mouth like " I love you" "I want to fix this marriage". How could he possibly mean it after all he had done? Once the anger has been breached and the pain came out - I was able to judge what he was saying with reference to today - still had the pain at the past - still the feeling of being duped - but I was able to begin to function better around him.

If none of this makes sense forgive me for seeing what is not in your email.

Linda

Hey there, I would never bash you.

That was a pretty good vent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All valid thoughts, feelings and questions.

One gentle reminder: even though it is true that you can't thank God for a faithful H, you can THANK GOD FOR BEING FAITHFUL TO YOU. HE (God) is being faithful to you. Cling to Him right now. All feels lost humanly right now I know. Your whole life is one big explosion right now. God WILL remain faithful and WILL help you put the pieces back together.

You CAN do it, I KNOW you can. You don't have to feel it today. Thats okay. Just breathe. One moment, one day at a time. It won't always feel so yucky.

Sorry does appear to be a genuinely remorseful H that wants to make it better so he is self-evaluating and leaping into recovery. He does not get where you are at right now. It seems to me that he thinks since he is remorseful and throwing himself into recovery, that is where you are/should be too.

I can see you are not there right now. And that is okay, Sarah. He needs to do the heavy lifting right now, shut his mouth, be consistent in his recovery efforts and let you grieve.

Your anger does need to have an outlet. Can you up your exercise? Beat a pillow? Here is an idea I just thought of right now....could you record yourself screaming every hateful thing you want to say to your H and then listen to it? Maybe by first of all just letting it out and then actually listening to what you would say to him with no holds barred would help you purge some of the hate and anger you feel right now which is holding you back and consuming you right now. That feels so yucky and I am so sad and sorry that you are feeling this so deeply right now.

Sarah, please, please, get on a consistent IC schedule. Weekly really is a must. This will help so much to have an outlet for your feelings and to hopefully get some good guided wisdom.

And I pray, Lord, that you will release Sarah from this bondage of anger. Holy Spirit please fill her with your love and comfort. Seal up the cracks in her that are vulnerable to satans attacks on her mind. Protect Sarah, her girls and this marriage. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Keep talking, I will listen to anything you have to say.
hugs,
Michele

Silverpool, we were posting at the same time and I just read your post.

Wow, that was greatly expressed.

A very compassionate response and really verbally expressed the BS experience. I felt all that too in my worst early days. I hope it resonates with Sarah as well.

We are here for you, Sarah!
Leaning on others is not a sign of weakness! It takes strength to seek out that which we need to become whole again.
Blessings,
Michele

Linda,


That is all I want is to be me. I just want to be me!!! Last night I went to bed at 7:00 again. It felt good to not have to deal with my life while I slept. That sounds pretty pitiful, huh? Maybe it is time to up my meds. I am just worried I will be really tired then b/c in the beginning they made me so tired I couldn't stay awake.


I'm going to repeat this 100 times today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! I will probably dream this in my sleep. Too bad this really doesn't answer any questions though.

Michele

Thanks for you post. I know what you mean about God being faithful. I understand that. Was it you who gave the visual of the desert? That is a great thing to think of. I wish he was here so I could go for a walk in the desert with him.

I started walking 3 miles 4 times a week. That is one way I try to release my anger. Tonight I won't be able to go though b/c it is my brother's b-day and we are going out to eat. It will be good for me b/c whenever I am home at night and my H is at work, I get very resentful of him. I hate him working nights and it just makes it worse being in the pain I'm in. And as i'm sure everyone with kids knows that they can drive you crazy when you're not up to it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

Thanks for your posts. They were very helpful.

--Sarah

Oh yea! C R A Z Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My favorite visual I tell people when they ask how we survive four little ones is I tell them that there are nights after we wrestle them all into bed and tend to their thousand and one reasons why they need one more thing, that I literally lay spread eagle on the floor with a nervous ticking twitch, with my eyes rolled back in my head and my tongue hanging out of my mouth screaming UNCLE!!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad to see your post, hang in there,
Michele

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Funny!!! So true!!!

--Sarah

glad
i feel your pain

Sarah,

You either need to move in next door to me - lol welcome to Indiana - or get yourself a theraspist for you alone - in fact I think I feel what some therapists say - right now you both need Individual counselling to support you before you are ready to go together - so repeat after me - I will make an appointment for myself tomorrow - I will go to therapy and do some anger work as soon as I can.

Anger work is great!!! You will love it - it allows you to really get it out of you in a physical way - I won't tell you how, but it is safe and refreshing and often the forerunner of grief work - you need both - it works ten times better than meds - they just put off the time you do it. So don't call the meds doctor for more meds, call a therapist - and get

!!!! REALLY ANGRY !!!! GROWL !!!!

Linda

Linda ,

I agree, I need to see an IC. I told my H yesterday that I wasn't going to. I told him to call for himself and work on himself first. Later I realized I do need to go too. But I don't plan on going with him. I feel he needs to learn some responsibility first and do some IC and then we can take the next step forward to MC.

What bothers me about the MC is that we went for 4 months and were getting help. And the whole time he was lying to me and the counselor. How is a counselor supposed to help someone when they only have half the truth? As far as we all knew, it was just a ONS. My H needs to learn to be honest and open and I know that is what you have all been telling me and him.

I'm hoping if he goes to IC, they can help him with that. That way, H can work on that and I can work on my anger and when we both are ready, we can jump into the MC.

Last night went fairly well. My H ended up asking ME a question. He wanted to know where I was with regard to divorce on a scale of 1 to 10. I told him 8 and he flipped out. His problem is he blames himself and thinks, "How can it be an 8 when I am doing everything I can for her." I sat him down and explained to him it is nothing he is doing now, that it is me coming to terms with the fact that my life has changed FOREVER!

I told him exactly what I posted yesterday about feeling the way I do about him being a trigger and not being the person I was. I also told him to stop scrutinizing my recovery process and let me recover the way I can and how soon I am ready.

His biggest problem is blaming his persent self for everything. It is not anything he is doing now, and he needs to understand that concept. I think he does now b/c this morning he thanked me for sitting me down and expressing my feelings the way I did last night instead of "going off" on him.

My spirits are better since yesterday. I am not as down as I was or depressed as I was. Dinner with my brother went well and our church is right next door and my H was there at his class and left me flowers on my car. That was sweet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

Glad,

Thanks for the prayer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

Good, get your Individual counselling set up asap. MY husband started a new affari while we were in counselling and forgot to tell anyone. Then he went to counselling on his own for 8 months and just lied to the counsellor -

Passive aggressives (like you husband) are very slippery and get a good audience as they do their Sincerely Earnest act. As soon as my husband forgets he is talking to me and turns it on - I just start saying - yes Earnest I expect you do feel that way, earnestly

. Don't sympathise with him about the blaming his present behaviour - his he knows what is up - we have told him over and over - he is playing you. His present behaviour is to resist looking at himself in the past - as you know he just wants to talk to you about now and drag you through 'NOW" too.

Leave him to get on with him, just be pleassant and don't jump up and lick his face like a puppy when he does something good. He doesn't need a speacial reward for doing what he should have been doing all along, just a warm acknowledgement.


You concentrate or working on you - that is your priority.

If you ever need someone to talk you out of being crazy etc. I have thought of a way to be in touch - and my FWH will talk to your Husband iof he wants - we are hoping to becpme MB coaches some time in the future - we do it for a lot of people on the Marriage Problems yahoo group already, and it seems to help - I talk to the BS and he talks to the WS.

It has helped his recovery amazingly - and mine too, as he saw he has to follow his own advice and I see I am not alone in how I used to feel.

Linda

Cheated_on,

I'm so sorry you are hurting.

Can you be more specific about the lies?

Checking on you this morning, cheated_on.

hola sarah
hope you get to feeling even better soon, i see you still have the same ticket as i do on this E roller coaster. hang in there and remember to smile.

Hi Sarah,

How are you feeling today?

I am here for you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Michele

Hi Michelle and Linda,

I'm doing ok today. I went to my dr. and he prescribed a new antidepressant for me. I hope this one works and I hope it doesn't make me tired like the one I'm on.

Nothing else really new going on here. I had more questions for my H last night which he answered....don't know if he was honest or not, but who does???

He congratulated me this morning b/c it was the first morning I didn't ask him any questions.

We didn't fight at all or anything like that either. I am getting a massage today at 4 and then going for my walk. That should be nice....ME time!!

My H is still working on finding us a counselor for IC.

--Sarah