Two psychs have said he has a personality disorder - and maybe he does - his behaviour is just not logical and such hard work - not just about the marriage - other stuff - almost like disassociation (multiple personality) but then he is so lucid and personable and earnest when he talks with them they change their minds until he tels the truth and then they sit aghast at him and come back to PD.

So it is hard to deal with - constantly waiting for the Sword of Damocles to fall. So he is really good for a while and we do well - I am able not to respond to his triggering behaviours and so I relax and open up emotionally - THEN - he strikes - ...

and he will not deal with HIS issues from his childhood - just makes up stories that never happened with people he doesn't know as a distraction in therapy. He is always an unknowing villain who is actually the victim of himself and the other persons response - and then when he apologises he is told he is a great guy and everyone forgives him and praises him. So he goes in with the latest version of this and the psych is impressed with his "openness" and "honesty".

So he wastes time and money creating an unwitting coach out of the psych. Our MC describes him as "very slippery".

Linda

good morn sarah just check in on you see how you are doing these past couple of days. things are pretty good on my end.

Hi Sarah,

How are you? Its okay to come on here and say things suck, if they do. I've been thinking about you. I hate that this stuff is such a time-consuming and long process.

It helped me to think, what do I want my life to look like in 2 years...and then just kept stepping forward into that goal.

I want to encourage you to read the post on the In Recovery board by Texmex called something like "Thank goodness my spouse and I worked on our marriage instead of divorcing". I think it might be a good read for you.

Hang in there, dear. It is worth the yuck and struggle. I wish it wasn't so hard. It just is. Its not fair, but it is what it is.

Blessings,
Michele

Hi Sarah,

Looks like we have to be patient and keep you in our prayers.

Linda

I'm so sorry for not writing sooner. When I get really depressed I don't want to talk to anyone. I got that way last week. I started my new meds on Friday so I am hoping they will help. I am doing better today.

My H and I watched the Oprah show on Thurs. Did any of you see it? It was good. It was about a FWH who had an A with his W's best friend. They are still together too.

I decided after watching that show that I do need to know the "why" did this happen. I know a lot of people on this forum say to stop asking why b/c you will never know. But I want to find out the "why".

I truly believe that my H was jealous (and still is) of me and my family (childhood). I think when this wh**e came along and started showing him attention he felt he deserved it b/c he never got what he wanted growing up. Yesterday on our way home from church we were talking about his family and he said to me, "I wish I had your family." I said, "You do have my family b/c you're married to me. They are your's too." That really hit me. I actually agree with him....I would be jealous too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! I do have such a loving and wonderful family and I am so extremely blessed! But, wow, that hit me really hard.

It makes me totally re-assess his family and I am starting to see a whole new side to them. There is a lot of disrespect in his family. He has four brothers and my H is the ONLY one that doesn't disrespect their father. I'm not sure why he is the only one that doesn't. But even his mother disrespects him.

But sturg made a good point on another thread and it really fits my situation. Here it is (I hope you don't mind, sturg <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and maybe it will help someone else too:


I think that is a great assessment. Now if only I can get my self-esteem back. How long does it take roughly until that happens or doesn't it ever happen?

I hope everyone else is doing well!

Linda, how are things with you and your H?

--Sarah

Yea, you're back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, still further scary similarities between us! My H has 3 brothers and 2 sisters and a majorly dysfunctional childhood where he never felt wholly loved and approved of.

My family is close and loving and caring and forgiving. I told my family a week after d-day and they sent him an email that said they have always thought of him as their son and this does not change that fact. Yes they went through their own anger and grieving process as we limped through recovery, but that first email made him cry and changed him dramatically.

We chose to *not* tell any of his family because we knew there would be no care and compassion and would only hinder his growth and maturity and our recovery process. I still know that was a great decision we made together.

I like your thought process on the "why". I think you are really getting somewhere there. The "why" you are asking here and the insight you are uncovering is different than the angry "why???" you were struggling with a couple weeks ago.

You're awesome Sarah. You are doing well. I hope those new meds work better for you.

Self-esteem...I could use a bigger hit of it too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You sound like in general that you had a higher one than me, so I hope yours will be restored sooner than later. At any rate, you are a class act.

24give wrote a good thread, it might be on in recovery..can't remember, but there is a warning in the title about it being a christian perspective. You might enjoy it.

Keep me posted, I care! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Blessings,
Michele

Hey Michele,

Thanks for caring <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! I did read that thread on the recovery board. That was really good. As my mom says, "It is hard being a christian."

We had a good sermon on Sunday in church too. I took a lot of good notes that I will be looking back on often.

I had a good day yesterday. My H says it was the best in a long time. We went grocery shopping together and had my brother over for the 24 season finale. It was a good time.

I'm glad to see you think I'm making progress. I need to hear that after my week last week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! I think my H goes to his IC on Thurs. for the first time. I'm still debating if I want to go to IC. I know I should but I have no time. I don't know when I would go. Is it wrong for me to let my H get the help he needs first and when I feel he is ready, we can start doing MC together? I am going to talk to my pastor sometime soon b/c he just wants to touch base with me and see how I'm doing. I can ask him what he thinks too.

Back to work......

--Sarah

Ok, just wanted to come on to say something. And I know if nikko is still reading my thread, she will probably comment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, but here I go.

I've decided to send one last e-mail to the OW. I am going to send it and then de-activate my account so she can't write back. My H knows about this and just said to do what I have to do to move forward. I'm sure a lot of you will tell me not to waste my time, but I need to get some stuff off my chest to her and let her know that I know about a lot more than she cared to tell me.

So I went on the website to make sure I could still find her and I did and then I clicked on her friend's picture and her friend had pictures of OW on her website. OW is sooooo ugly. I was looking at the wrong pic before when I said I thought she was attractive. She looks like a man. The only thing she has over me is big boobs. I mean, there is no comparision between me and her.

I am trying to figure out if this is a bad thing or good thing? I think it is a good thing but then I think he put our marriage on the line for her.... at least he could have picked someone attractive. I just don't get it.

My brother says it was just all about the attention she was giving my H. Well, that would be the only way she could get a man b/c no good looking guy would want her. But how can he have SF with someone unattractive?

There I said it. I'm sure the posts will start flowing in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

well hope you find what your looking for i also did the same as you about 2 weeks ago i went to see the OM to let him know a thing or two and to see if what my W was telling me the truth before we tryed to fix our marriage, but when i got there i had just missed him by 15 min. so who knows from here what i'll do, nothing if anything i just would like to let him know what he did toar up my family but i'm better off not talking to him the old me might come out.

Hi Sarah,

I am sure you will get more "appropriate and sage" advice from others, but I just had to tell you that your email made me chuckle! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree, do what you have to do and what is good about it is that it sounds like you have a POJA with your H about this...that is great that you told him what you wanted to do instead of doing it behind his back. That means you are communicating. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am glad your plan is to deactivate your email afterwards though. DO NOT allow for any kind of banter to be started between you two. That is the one caution I would make against emailing her.

Any chance you want to share with us the piece of your mind you plan to give to her? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think what got me chuckling was how you went on about how ugly she is. It just goes to show you our H's were not using the brains in their heads for sure.

The FOW in our case was fine looking I suppose...but what got it started was when she grabbed my H's doodah when they left a "business dinner" one night. For a highly sexual man who had a weeks old newborn baby at home (which she knew about) and wasn't getting any...his brain transferred to where she grabbed him. GRRRRRRR. That's how their PA started.

As I've mentioned, her and her BH came to my door to tell me and they came inside and I sat and talked to them for about 20 minutes. What I remember most is that she looked like he!! (from the trauma of being found out and crying all night) so much so that I did not recognize her at the door and I didn't know why they were there and they were mumbling something about my H and I honestly thought they were telling me he was dead. I have never felt such utter terror. After confirming that he was not dead but that he was having an A with her, it was practically a relief for that one moment!!

Anyway, the thing I remember about sitting and talking with them while she looked like he!! was that she was wearing these embellished shoes, but the embellishment had fallen off one of the shoes and her toenail polish was chipped and I just remember focusing on her ugly shoes and toes during the conversation. Isn't that funny that is one of the things I most remember about the 20 minutes?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I honestly don't know why I got off on a tangent about that.....where was my train of thought?

Oh, I guess it was that had I not had a chance to talk with her then, I can see in myself that I would have had a compelling urge to talk to her, whether right or wrong from MB standpoint.

There were several attempted contacts made by her after d-day and I became so enraged, I did talk to her H on a few occasions. That was a terrible idea and I finally told him to stop calling when he kept calling me. Crazy to think back now on that time.

Okay back to present. I didn't mention this when it happened since this thread is about you, not me...(gee, here I go anyway making it about me, sorry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> just hoping you feel some comaraderie. About 3 weeks ago my H comes home and says "guess who walked into the office to drop off her resume?" (he was not in the office at the time, his boss told him when he returned) I just could not believe it!! The nerve! The idiocy! At that moment, I knew why her M did not survive and mine did. Well, I had that figured out earlier than this, but that action really nailed it home. She still does not get it after 3 years! I am glad that my H and I get it. Enough said. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do what you have to do and let me know what you said and how you feel afterward. And be sure to deactivate that account after sending if you decide to send. I promise you NO GOOD could come out of opening a communication btwn you and her.

Blessings!
Michele

Sarah,

When a WS wants something he just goes for it - and men - when sex is involved - they don't have to look at the mantel piece when they are poking the fire....

I guess he was not looking up - that is where grace, clarity and miracles come from ....

If you need some tips on self esteem building, email me - I will cut and paste from my marriage problems group - we have over 1,000 members and they find some great stuff. I always refer them here - but they find success with the books etc sometimes quickly if they are not in crisis and early in marriage with no A. Also try a search here on self esteem - there are some great posts. Look for my list of 180 - a couple of months ago - it helps - just pick out the bits that apply to your behaviour toward yourself only - you will not use those that do not fit in with MB, until or unless you planB H, and then they are moot. But the 180 list gives you a structured way to act as far as what you do for you to rebuild your self esteem.

I phoned the OW and told her I forgave her and encouraged her to forgive herself - I will post my thing on forgiveness too - not what you expect. As a christian I felt she would never change until she forgave herself and with me being the start maybe she would change and save her own marriage.

We are doing better - Pete seems to have "got it" and is as he should be - feeling surreal and not acting out - feeling the shame at last for how he has been - seeing how it has been for me - so keep him in your prayers.

Linda

im still reading.....thought for awhile we lost you both....lol

you poja'd it and you are gonna shut your e-mail down after....HAVE AT IT! LOL sometimes it is the only way....dont ask how i know.....lol

you sound much better....stronger. thats good. you are making progress sludging through the muck...good job.

oh yeah......and just so you know.....there was never any comparison between you too to begin with....an honorable person with a gentle soul ALWAY wins, hands down!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Linda



I guess you're right. That is just disgusting to me. I could never have SF with an unattractive person. What is wrong with men???

Well, I don't know if I'll be able to e-mail OW. I can't find her page anymore on the website. I don't know if she took it off or what. I can still access her friend's but not hers. And I am not going to waste too much of my time trying to find it. She's not worth that much of my energy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

I have the link and I will just try that again a few times and if it doesn't work, I guess I can't send it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I could send something to her friend though although it won't have the same effect.

I told H I lost the page and he said maybe it is a sign. Who knows?? If I do it, I will post the e-mail here for you guys to see and comment on it.

I'm still doing pretty good. My H keeps bothering me about meeting with my pastor b/c he wants to meet with me and I keep putting it off. I have to set up an appt. soon.

Michele,

I liked your story on the OW's shoes. That is something I would do. You are just like me. I was laughing when I was reading that b/c that would be me too! You have to almost feel sorry for the OW (And I said ALMOST <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). I kind of feel sorry for my OW b/c she is so unattractive. But I guess that is why she goes to the clubs b/c then the guys are drunk and they won't "really" know what she looks like till it's too late <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />! That's what happened to my H. And then of course she uses her smooth talking b/c that is the only way to keep their attention <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Ok, enough about her. I could go on and on.

Nikko ,

Good to hear from you! I haven't heard from you for a while.

Talk to you guys later! Have a great night!!

--Sarah

im gonna ask a hard question....and i do not want the answer your giving your hubby....lol

ready..........................



why are you so reluctant of counseling and meeting with the pastor?

think before you answer.......

Ok, two answers....one is the one I'm giving my H.....I don't have time. And I mean that as in right now. I am extremely busy at work, not getting home till late and I am just tired by the time I get home. I haven't gotten my schedule for next month, but I'm hoping it isn't as bad as this month.

Ok, second reason, I don't want to "jump" back into recovery again to be burnt. I put SO MUCH effort into my recovery after Novemeber and then had two huge setbacks. I am scared my H still isn't telling me the whole truth and I don't want to waste my time again putting effort into something to be shot down again. I look at all the counseling we went to together and it was just a big waste of time b/c my H wasn't honest with anybody the whole time. How is a counselor supposed to help us when he doesn't know the whole truth??

So those are my main reasons. I want my H to get help first and get everything out that he needs to and when he is at a point where I think he needs to be, then I will go back to counseling with him or by myself first.

I am going to go to my pastor. I won't have time to call him, though, until probably next week b/c the rest of my week is crazy busy. But I promise I will meet with him again. And I wouldn't make a promise to you, nikko, if I wouldn't keep it b/c you will probably track me down if I don't follow through <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!


--Sarah

So - who warned the other woman you were going to email her? No such thing as a coincidence when an OW is around and reachable by email.

Why do you HAVE to go to your pastor - why is hubby pressuring you to go to him?

IMHO - I think you need an IC right now - not too work on the marriage, but to work on your coping skills, so that if there are bumps along the way to recovery - almost always are - then you have coping skills ready to use and honed to efficiency.

You two have been absent for a while - I too wondered if we had lost you - lol.

I do not think your H should decide who you go to for counselling. AND - you need to take care of you now - ESPECIALLY - if you are working long hours - the stress builds up and you need someone psych trained to be working with you now.

Anyway you know how to contact us all if you need anything - and I have made an email so if you do have a question for me and I am taking a break form here - you can reach me.

I guess I am getting a big head - thinking I might be missed - lol. Self esteem must be up right now.

I see my therapist for two hours tomorrow - so we shall see what we work on then - we are working through my life looking for sensitive areas.

God Bless

Linda

cheated on.....the first is not gonna fly....lol you know that. how would you feel if "HE" couldnt make time for your marriage. im not gonna jump on ya for it because your second answer is way more honest. lol

now, lets look at answer #2. your scared. i get that, i really do. but without being there how do you know he is being honest??? i guess he could come home and tell you what he is telling the counselour.....but ya know, his credibility is shot right now so your not really gonna believe that either. lol i dealt with the same thing with my fwh.....when i did finally join....months later i found out he hadnt really opened up so much....lots of wasted time. so if you are really worried about wasting more time...get your a$$ in there and make sure he is being honest and accountable.lol what we did with our counselor was i went in and laid it all out...boy was that an eye opener for counselor.....and then i showed up each session and just listened mostly. after a bit the counselor brought me more into it.

i explained to hubby and counselor if any more time was wasted...i was outta there...this was over two yrs after d-day....i had separated from hubby, asked him to leave, and had had enough. they both knew i was dead serious. it finally started to move foward. i was cautious and leary, but we finally started making progress.

think about it.....

I was wondering the same thing about someone warning the OW (ie, H). So I asked him if he's still talking to her. He said no. And I told him about e-mailing her about a week ago so he would have told her then if he was still talking to her. But who knows?? If he is I will find out and he's gone!

Linda,

Thanks for the e-mail address. I took a break b/c I was in a deep depression and didn't want to talk to anyone for about a week and a half. That is how I get. I'm not sure why my H wasn't on either. He gets depressed when I'm depressed so that is probably what happened.

I do plan on going to IC but my nights are very short and I wouldn't have anyone to watch the girls if I wanted to go to IC. Also, with working at a courthouse, I can't just tell the Judge I need to leave at 4:30 (my usual end time) b/c I have an appt. We go until whenever we're finished and you never know when that will be so it is hard to schedule something when I am in court. That is why I said I want to see what my schedule is like next month. I am hoping to have more time out of court.

And as far as going with my H to counseling, I did and he just lied to everyone. How am I supposed to know he's lying? He's the only one that knows that. I could go with him and I still wouldn't know what he's holding back. All I know is what he told me. I'm hoping if I'm not there he can be honest with the counselor since I won't be there to hear it. He says he didn't want to hurt me so if I'm not there, he won't be hurting me and the counselor can help him w/his issues if he's honest with her. See what I'm saying?

Oh, I wanted to tell you guys the counselor told him yesterday that she believes he is passive aggressive. That is what you guys have been saying all along! You were right!

Ok, talk to you later.

--Sarah

well thats different....you both have talked and decided together that he goes first.....then thats a different situation. this way it falls directly on him....he has to be accountable. you will know with the progress he is making...you will "see" it and not just "hear" it. you will see the changes.

he is passive aggressive and he is also an avoider....if she(counselor) knows this, and is worth anything, she will call him on it.....you can only pray and hope he finally gets it and is honest. its not easy, but if you are truely commited to recovery, you can do it.

Passive agressive use ways to avoid the truth.

Question: did you wanr the OW?

Answers

Distraction - ohh I am doing so well, I wish DW qould go to counselling.

Obtuse Demial (with attack DJ and distraction thrown in) I cannot believe you are asking me this - I have changed!

I am not doing it now (favorite form of distraction) "I haven't talked to her since we agreed. I am not doing that any more. I don't do that now.

Any of them sound familiar?

Linda

PS PA avoiders are very slippery - it would not be a bad idea to have one session with her on your own to bring her up to speed.