CO---are you meeting any of your husbands needs? the important ones to him anyway. what are his top five needs? sometimes starting little with this will allow you to open up more.

trust me i know how unfair it all seems....remember i was at it for years before my hubby finally got it and woke up. i get the resentment and anger, i get the "this is all on you now".....but at a certain point you have to either shyte or get off the pot also. do you have a image in your mind that he has to meet before you will jump in? do you feel protected by his actions and if not why?

you really do need to get a plan for yourself...something to work towards.....maybe you have one and i dont know it, which is fine, but you do need a goal to keep going towards. is there something he is doing/not doing that is an issue for you right now?

it is all so overwhelming....i know that, that is why i think you need something to work towards and goals for yourself....looking at it all as a whole is too much sometimes.

Know how to eat an elephant??????



one bite at a time.



god i remember when someone told me that...i wanted to slap them....lol but i get it now......

nikko,

I believe I am meeting my H's needs. We filled out the EN questionnaire and his top EN was affection and admiration which I believe I have been doing ok at. I'm sure there's room for improvement, but as far as pre-A I am doing a lot more and making a conscious effort.

My plan for now is to try to forgive him. That is my biggest setback right now. I need to focus more on it and put more effort into it.

As far as my H not doing something, he won't answer my questions anymore b/c his counselor and our pastor told him not to. That gets me SOOO mad. He did start to answer some a couple of weeks back and then changed his mind and stopped.

He is upset b/c my questions just about all start with, "What were you thinking when". Is that a bad thing that I want to know what he was thinking? He says I should just be focused on whether he is still in contact with her or anytime he met her or called her, those types of things.

I want to know the "What were you thinking when". Am I being unreasonable?

As far as everything else he is doing for me, he is putting forth a huge effort on rebuilding the M. I do give him credit for that! Sometimes it feels like I am hanging by a rope being dragged behind him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />! He is sooo far ahead of me. It is hard to communicate with him b/c of that. He never wants to come back and get me and help me along. He just wants to move forward, and I'm not there yet.

Michele,



Sounds like you are going to have your hands full this summer!! Make sure to enjoy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

Hi Sarah,

I see we are reading at the same time. Are your girls out of school for the summer yet?

As far as the "what were you thinking when..." questions. What kind of answers are you looking for? What do you think would be a satisfying answer to you?

Forgiveness of something this huge is a tough concept, don't you think? Especially as christians...we want to be able to forgive, but it can be hard to get the head and heart in agreeance.

I am trying to remember how I went about it. I do believe the very first day I told him I *wanted* to forgive him, that was my plan and that was the goal I would begin working towards.

A passage in 2 Corinthians really helped me, this is somewhat paraphrased from 2:5-11...

Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him....what I have forgiven--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

I think forgiveness, like love, is first a decision, that leads to action that leads to feeling that leads to the head and heart being in unity. I hope that makes sense.

It is the same with recovering from the A. You first must choose to recover--I think you have chosen this...then you must begin actions to recovery that will lead to feelings of renewed love that will lead to your head and heart connecting in unity.

I think it is very good that you see your H working so hard. Stay in the "game" though Sarah, don't get so stubborn that you get left in the dust. I did this for a while too. And I can honestly say, my H even now is actually better and more capable at making lasting positive changes in himself than I am now. He is a great example of someone who has been renewed by the Spirit.

Keep working on filling his EN's. Actions lead to Feelings, not the other way around. I spent YEARS waiting for feelings before I felt like doing any actions. I had it backwards. Actions bring about the feelings. And making the CHOICE to do so is how to start the actions.

You hang in there. Climb back on and let your vivacious spirit shine. You are a winner and you deserve to grab hold of the joy that the Lord has in store for you.

Blessings
Michele

CO,

I need to ask you something.

If you and your H are truely trying to recover, and are using Harley's basic concepts, i.e. Radical Honesty, then why do you not allow each other to read each other's threads? It just seems to me you guys would be moving forward MUCH faster if you talked to each other like you talk to others on this forum. Maybe others have asked you this same question, and I missed it previously.

For my own purposes, I'm trying to figure out if I am way off on this Radical Honesty thing.

Thanks so much,

KJ

CO---someone, along time ago told me to do something cause i was just like you....closed off and guarded.(and we have the mother of all reasons to be, right? lol) she told me to get a journal and keep a record of all the nice things my husband did. even if it wasnt something that was considered my top en's, i was supposed to journal them....then when i was regressing and the anger was taking hold, and the resentment showed itself....i was to go back and look at the book.....

when the resentment and pain comes up we forget....we block....and we protect ourselves.....this opened my eyes. there it was in black and white right in front of me, in MY handwriting. all the things, big and little, that he was doing. it helped....it really did.

now dont get me wrong, i believe your husband has a long way to go and needs a lot of help....but this will help you see that he is trying.

good morning sarah how are ya this fine morning?

Hi Michele,

I only have one daughter in school. She isn't done yet. Her last day is next week on Thurs. She is excited about it. We are going to Disney in about three weeks too, so they are counting down the days <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

We opened our pool last week and the girls have been in there every day so far <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! They love it. Any my sister-in-law will be watching both of them over the summer so she can take them to our pool whenever she wants. They will have a good time.



Thanks for that verse. I see what you're saying about the deicision. I have to decide to forgive him and then take action.

I am going to contiune with my actions too.

Happy Friday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

KJ ,

You'll have to ask my H. He is the one that has a problem with it. I told him he could read mine if he wanted to but he said something about holding me to everything I say on here or something like that. I pretty much tell him everthing I tell you guys on here anyway though.

I'm not the one with the communication problem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! That would be my H!

nikko

My H gave me the notepad today and said you would be writing me about what to do with it. I will do as you say. I know if I don't, you'll hunt me down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />! It is in my car. I will take it home and work on it there. Thanks for the suggestion.

I also set up my appt. with the pastor for next week on Tues. I just hope the trial I'm in doesn't spill over to that day or I will have to reschedule.

I told you my schedule is crazy to work with! I hate trying to make appts. for things b/c it is so frustrating <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

hey saenz,

What's new? What are your plans for the weekend? We have a b-day party to go to tomorrow for our friend's daugther. She's 5. That should be fun. Except now I have to be around our "happy" couple friends again, yuck <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

I'm gonna try to stay strong!

--Sarah

So his Pastor and IC are working against MB principles. This is why MC alone is called Divorce counselling. They should not be telling one of you not to cooperate with a plan you had agreed on. This is why it is better for you both to foot the bill and deal with the Harleys than to go to three of four different people, who come under the 23% MC success rate, than to go to the H. by phone - and they will support your feelings and set WS straight, with the method that rates a 90% success rate.

I am having a temporary separation from IAsS thread - knee deep in self righteousness and self pity ... leaving him to NIkko. I told him I can understand you saying the D word now and then - even I want a separation!!! LOL.

Anyway below is my take on Forgiveness - Love Linda.

------------------------------------------------


Forgiveness is realizing you are not responsible for his punishment and therefore do not have to carry the pain he inflicted on you. It is such a relief to just cast the pain on God. when I tell someone they are forgiven it means I will not "give" them any more of my mind or vulnerability. It is like letting go of it. When you forgive someone you relinquish their fate to God. God is just and says "vengeance is mine", so it frees you from the weight on your mind and any hurtful or mad thoughts that run through it. Forgiveness does not mean you let them off, more like you write them off. It also does not mean you put your trust in them. If you gave me a knife and I stabbed you with it, maybe you would relinquish my fate to God and forgive me, but you would be a fool to trust me. Let me explain the word - like forbidding is the opposite of bidding. Forgiving is the opposite of giving, no more giving him the power to hurt you from the past or the present. Give him to God to see if he can hurt Him and lie to him.

Now Trust. Trust is not to do with forgiving. Trust is given when we love someone and have no reason not to trust them, once they break that trust we are under no obligation to trust them again until they earn that trust. It does not mean you don't forgive, the two are not related, that is a fallacy. Only God can forgive and trust us at the same time and that is because he is Infallible and knows our hearts. He is also omnipotent and cannot be harmed by us, we are not Gods and we are not required anywhere in the bible to immediately trust someone just because we forgive them. Read Proverbs 24:24,26, Jer. 7:8, Your husband has salacious words ("I haven't seen her since" and like words) and will not tell you the truth. Why would God want you to trust one who doesn’t tell the truth? Why would any Christian man or woman take advice to not tell the truth? Ask anyone who tells you to trust your husband for the text that tells you to trust anyone who does not tell you the truth.

silver---its ok....i know the frustration well. what her husband doesnt know is im married to the king of these tactics and sorry isnt even a minion....lol

this is one of the reasons we highly suggest using harley as a counselour...he cuts right through the crap....and believe me he has seen and heard it all im sure. he is also the author of the plan you are trying to use.....these others....albeit pastors, priests or whatever....are usually clueless. my background for saying that is my own brother is a priest. he has no clue about how to counsel someone in this sitch. we have talked about it and i have wanted to smack him on more than one occasion.....how bad would it really be to smack a clueless priest---he is my brother????LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

your husband is looking for any justification to stop answering your questions and shovel this under the rug...he is finding it too. you need to ask him why HE went back on his word to answer your questions and be honest with you WITHOUT discussing it first.

he is also determined to control YOUR recovery.....this is not good in the hands of someone who is acting selfishly....you know that. how does it make you feel when he decides you have had enough details and you need to move on....building any resentment yet???

you are doing great.....him im worried about.lol he is still running from what he did....he will eventually tire....i pray you have the stamina to hang on.

im not sure how much you know about this but maybe this will help....learn the game....

http://www.passiveaggressive.homestead.com/SUGGESTIONS.html

how was your weekend?

its tuesday---you going to meet the pastor??

Hey nikko,

I had to cancel the appt. with my pastor. The trial I'm in is going longer than expected and may not be over till Thurs. I should have known better than to trust an attorney's word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! Sorry to anybody that is an attorney <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But I should know by now after working there almost 9 years that Tuesday means at least Wednesday, probably Thursday.

I got the voice mail at my pastor's, so I couldn't reschedule but I will call back tomorrow to reschedule. I will try to make it a night this time and have one of my brothers watch the girls. It is just such a hassle b/c then I have to get them ready and drop them off and pick them back up. But it is worth it.

My weekend went pretty good. We went to that b-day party. It wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. The whole time I was thinking, "The OW would never fit in here." I just couldn't imagine my H going to these things without me, let alone some other girl....yuck!!! We even stayed and played some games while all the kids played downstairs. It was nice to be around our friends. It may have been different than the picnic though b/c none of the friends we were with on Sat. know about the A. Maybe that is why I felt more comfortable.

I was also thinking when we were there the reason me and my H are together is b/c of them. The one girl that was there used to be a really good friend of mine a long, long time ago. She invited me to my now brother-in-laws' 1st b-day party (16 yrs. ago) and that is where I met my H.

My H is really good friends with her brothers and we hang out with them a lot. I don't see the girl much anymore b/c she moved about 45 minutes away and has a family now and really distanced herself from her own family. But she was there and I was thinking of how our relationship started. I can't believe it was 16 years ago!!! Wow!!!

So I guess that is the update. Oh, we did get in a fight on Sunday night. We went to church Sunday morning and then I had a class at church in the afternoon and when I got back my H wanted me to go to the night service too b/c it was Pentecostal {sp?} Sunday. It is a huge thing at our church since it is a Pentecostal church.

Well, I told him I didn't feel like going so that he could go and I would go to this picnic with the girls and my family. He asked me if I wanted to go out to eat with him then while my parents watched the girls and I said sure. So I'm waiting at my parent's for him to come get me for dinner. It is 8:00 and I'm wondering where he is. The service started at 6:00. I thought it would be over at 7:00.

Well, I don't hear from him at all. 8:30 comes and I am furious. He didn't even call me to say he would be coming soon or was late or anything. My mom offered to drive me home and get me something to eat. So I took her up on the offer. About five minutes after we left he calls me and asks where I was. I just flipped out on him. I was so mad. I told him it was too late to eat dinner and he could have left early for me.

He gave me the guilt trip about, "I'm sorry I put God first in my life." It just got me more mad. So when I got home I yelled at him and then watched TV by myself. Then he finally apologized and we talked and worked it out.

He came and brought me lunch at work yesterday to make up for it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! That was nice of him. Do you think I was being too hard on him on Sunday about the whole event? I think I was being reasonable. I just have problems holding my feelings in. My mom told me not to bother fighting about it, to just let it go. But that is not me at all.

If I have a problem, you're going to know about it. This is actually the opposite of my H. If he has a problem he just puts it behind him and moves on.

OK, I am really writing a lot tonight. Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to give you the info on my weekend.

How is everyone else doing?

--Sarah

Linda,

Thanks for the forgiveness info. That really helps me.

--Sarah

Nikko,

I was just on another thread named "A S-L-O-W learner" by MeOnlyBetter. She is concerned about her PA H. I mentioned your name and told her I would say something to you about helping her since you seem to know about PA. I also gave her the site you gave me.

Maybe you could help her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

ok....lets look at what happened....he was late and didnt call. for me way back when, a huge no-no. i expect a phone call if you are gonna be late or longer than expected. your hubby didnt do that. very inconsiderate. however.......

you let your anger get the best of you. i know because ive done it.lol you went on the attack and he pulled a pa move...a classic one....and tried to turn it around on you and make you feel guilty for him having god in his life. classice guilt shifting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

next time.....CALMLY let himknow that if he doesnt call that is his CHOICE. and if he chooses to disrespect you then the consequences are.....(fill in the blank).
keep it simple and calm. pa love to blame shift and you GAVE him the opening to do that. take the opening away calmly and he will have to blame himself.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

the putting stuff behind them is also classic....i bet all the stuff he has put behind him HAS built resentment and also has to do with the WHY of his affair.....that is why i am on him so much to NOT bury this and shovel it under the rug....it will just fester and grow. he has to learn new ways to deal with things and not conflic avoid(put stuff behind him) and reform his core coping mechanisms. it will take a long time to change lifelong behaviors and you will have to be consistent and patient. read and learn all you can about pa's and how to break the cycle.

now.....on to the counseling.....you will need it. dealing with someone with these tendancies is exhausting. a good counselor who knows their stuff about pa's will be a godsend.

your doing great....he is doing really well also.

read this and check out the links....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1