Suzet, Dr Harley suggested that the OP's spouse should ALWAYS be told and that is what he told her here. He did not make that contingent upon her H's agreement, but suggested that she ask her H to do the calling. [she has added contingencies and qualifiers in the time SINCE the phone call] Of course she has to have his agreement to do this. However, if he REFUSES, [which is what she clearly wanted] then that leaves the issue of WHO or HOW will notify her, since as Dr Harley clearly stated, and has always stated, the BS should always be notified.

That leaves her to find an appropriate way to inform the OMW without risking contact with the OM herself.

Why is it hard to believe that Dr H modified his advice to 2BN based on the circumstances described?!?!?!

We've seen it done in several cases here before...cases where he's had people hold off exposing, delay plan B, etc...why not believe that he could actually have said something different here?!?!?!

This sounds like it's getting vindictive Mel...I get along with you well, but in this case I really think you need to review how this is coming across...she's discussed it on the board, discussed it with her spouse, and asked the question via the email/talk show. Reading what she posted here (which IS all we have to go on at the moment) I draw the same conclusions that she does.

So why make this PERSONAL?!?!?!

ML -
I have not added contingencies and qualifiers in the time SINCE the phone call. I'm not sure why you state that.

In my post above, I posted what Dr. Harley said on the program based on my email to him.


Oh, but he did. He specifically told me NOT to make the call. He specifically told me that it is my husband's decision to call or not call this woman based on what my husband feels.

I agree here as well. Mel, why so adament about proving what I heard was wrong?

Why do you think I have a motive other than trying to do the right thing?

Why do you feel that I should dismiss what my husband feels and what Dr. Harley told me?

There IS no other way to contact this woman except by phone. I have no other means. By calling their house, I AM risking contact with this OM. This is why Dr. Harley suggested to talk this over with my husband (which I did) and for my husband to make the decision based on what my husband feels should be done. And, that IF the call is to be made, it is to be done by my husband and not by any other means.

But he didn't "modify" his advice at all. As 2BNormal stated, he stated:
Given that, and the fact that she doesn't want to expose AT ALL [witness a weeks worth of vigorous rationalizations] I don't believe for a minute he suddenly changed his stance within the scope of one phone call and added contingencies. Contingencies that she herself had even been talking about before she even called in order to avoid exposing to the OMW.


First off, you are confusing advice that SH gives in private sessions in order to more strategically end an affair. You are confusing a STRATEGIC DELAY in action in counseling with a seismic shift in underlying principles.
That has NOTHING to do with changing a PRINCIPLE.


Feelings are not truth, OWL, we are talking about ISSUES, this is not "personal."

Sure you have. Let's be honest, 2BNormal, you did add a new contingency after the fact:


You added that Dr. Harley believes the ONLY REASON for exposure is because of STDs. And since you have no STD, therefore, you are off the hook!

[Of course, that doesn't mean the OMW hasn't gotten one SINCE, because no one seems to feel it's their "problem" to tell this woman.]

OK...so what about the simple fact that 2BN's H does NOT WANT her to contact OM or OMW in anyway? Does this factor in here?

Let me be real blunt. If my wife's A had been with a MM, then I would likely have insisted that we expose to his W...at the time. But if NC had been maintained for 2 years and THEN this became an issue, I would NOT support doing so in my case...because I would NOT want to risk ANY kind of resumption of the affair or contact with OM in ANY fashion.

I can understand her H's feelings...and since he has indicated that he will NOT contact OMW, nor does he want 2BN to do so...what's to be done?

I think there are lots of things that can be done, but that requires willingness and creativity to find alternatives, something that seems to be sorely lacking here. I guarantee you, if I did something wrong and felt I needed to make it up to my victim, my H would respect my wishes since it involved my personal conscience. Further, as Dr.Harley told me on MY phone call, the only exposures that are POJA'd are those AFTER the betrayed spouses are informed.

But I suspect the real issue here is not her H's wishes, but her own from the weeks worth of rationalizations. Funny, she "has" to have her husband's approval to do the right thing but she didn't need it to do the wrong thing with this married man.

Actually, it is the OPPOSITE, which is WHY exposure to both BS' are so critical. When the other betrayed spouse knows, the likelihood of a resumption is REDUCED. The likelihood of a resumption is always greater when both spouses don't know. There is nothing stopping 2BNormal from picking up the phone TODAY and calling the OM. She knows his # and the OMW would be none the wiser. However, if she KNEW who 2BNormal was, it is less likely she would even call, much less get through his W to him.

First off, I didn't add this as the ONLY REASON. This is what I wrote in my first post: The reason he said he recommended exposing was because of possible STD's, and that the OM's wife could be tested and protect herself, etc. This is the reason he gave me based on my email. As I stated, my email did not mention STD's. It was Dr. Harley that brought this up. I didn't say it was his ONLY reason, but it was the reason he mentioned on the radio program.


OK ML - Let's hear what you believe my husband and I should do. Mind you, my husband will not call this OM's wife. Let's hear that you believe that I need to NOT respect my husband's decision.


This was YOUR phone to Dr. Harley. Not an answer to my email. Dr. Harley did not say in response to my email that the only exposures that are POJA'd are those AFTER the betrayed spouses are informed.

He gave me different advice than he gave YOU. As I stated earlier, which you seem to NOT believe me, Dr. Harley said to discuss this with my husband and that it is my husband's decision. This is quite different from your phone call to Dr. Harley.

I can assure you there is NO risk in that I would call this OM today or any day in the future.

The point is there is NO risk of further contact.

2BNormal, so you are saying that you WANT her notified but the only thing stopping you is your H's approval?

OWL, your ID name is so perfect for you because you are
WISE, very very wise.

Your advice to 2BNormal (one of the most kind and caring women I know) is great. (To believe what Dr. Harley told her and leave any calls to OM'S wife to her husband's discretion.)

You, OWL, are a BH, so who better to give wise and understanding counsel on this matter, than you?

We are FORTUNATE to have you here on this marriage builder's forum. I hope you continue give WISE OWL ADVICE for a long long time.

There is ALWAYS a risk, 2BNormal. There is with everybody.

ML -
I am saying that I came on here last week and asked a question about exposure. I KNEW when I asked that question what my husband felt about exposing to this OM's W, based on a past conversation with my husband. I had concern to do the right thing and wanted to get advice. The advice I was seeking was NOT to rationalize but understand the reasoning for exposing to this OM's W.

There are issues that my husband is concerned about for contacting this woman. We have NOT told our children about this affair or the 2nd affair. That was jointly agreed upon. To call this woman would put our family at risk. Risk that this OM would call our house. Risk that the OM's wife would call our house. These are not risks my husband is willing to make for our marriage and our family.

I HAD wanted to expose the affair to the OM's wife a year ago. A year ago on Christmas I received an email from this OM after 4 months of requested NC. When I received that email, I was still in contact with the 2nd OM. And, my husband did not know that I had continued contact with the first OM up until 4 months prior.

When this was all brought out into the open with my husband on Dec. 29, 2004, we were dealing with recovering from not 1, but two affairs! There was much to deal with.

Now, that time has passed, I questioned whether we should expose to this OM's W. But, I have to respect my husband. I will respect my husband and what he feels is best for my marriage.

Actually you DID claim he said it was the ONLY REASON, you said:


You used this to make the case that the call should not be made because "you have none..." [STDs]

I am NOT interested in this OM. I am repulsed by him!

There is greater risk that I would call/contact the 2nd OM. His wife knows of the affair. I did contact this 2nd OM by an email that I forwarded to him in Dec. He promptly called my husband and he informed his W the same day of my email Therefore, all mechanisms are in place that I cannot call this man who is at greater risk for me to contact.

Persons here are not being vindictive ..........they are Frustrated.

Truly,
To say that if someone is "part" of the problem (the A) .......but then claim they HAVE NO Responsibility for its repercussions .......well, that is where much of this frustration comes from.

Next,
For those on thread after thread that after being called on a position,
routinely seem to fall back on somehow being attacked or it being otherwise personal ...consider this:
Perhaps that's just their own conscience calling ........thereby warping (to them) what is being written towards the subject.

Indeed,
Posters Who simply think that EVERY BS Deserves to know the Truth about their M, relationship and life ......are simply representing a Principle.
{And yes,
Honestly one that many FEEL very strongly about}.

Its simply unfortunate that individual posters are asking about their OWN case, which makes the arguments seem to be about them per say.
Posters such as 2Be are just a Part of the larger Issue,
that's come around in thread after thread.

So yes,
much frustration will probably come anyone's way that delves back into this subject ......cause right or wrong, the Issue is older then any individual thread.

Believe it or not,
There ARE actually folks that stick to a belief and do not just bend to which every way the wind is blowing
OR
Simply do NOT Do what is easiest, most comfortable or the most expedient for them at current moment.

As far as 2Be herself goes,
Since she Never did and still doesn't intend to EVER tell this Other BS .....then OK, don't.
However,
Keep in mind that it is she that is starting this YET AGAIN (new) thread .....all in an attempt to Support Her Position and Belief.

Which is her right, no doubt.
But then please those that do so,
DON'T come on and claim someone else "won't let the issue go" OR is simply trying to get in the last word.

That has been the intent of this thread, to get in some last points.
Otherwise, it would have just been Let Go and the thread never started.
To claim otherwise is not being above board.
If not prepared for discussion ......consider not starting the thread.
Unfortunatly,
even if the threads are new, the contention (on both sides) carries over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

So lets say the OMW finds out next nonth and calls you up and asks..."Why didn't you admit to me what happened?"
What would your answer be? You didn't think it was important?