Well said, Mulan!

I agree with you.

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Okay, now I'm tearing up. It's been a long, hard, gray, down day here. I wish that I could just go to bed right now.

Mulan, your post hit me in the heart. I see that I am trying to change/control CH. We've agreed before that change is possible IF somebody wants to. I don't think CH wants to.

I am not the child of an alcoholic. I am the 5th child of 6 of an insecure control freak. My dad was raised poor, not well eduated, was poorly parented and moved frequently in his childhood. He was a part of the rural, Depression generation that was a part of WW2. He liked to run his large family like a little troop. "Yes, sir" and "No sir" were the safest things to say. I spent a lot of my youth trying to stay under the radar. My mom was raised to trust in the kindness of men. Well, she didn't get much from my dad and she didn't know how to ask for it. She is a college graduate and came from a large, close farm family. One of her sisters married an alcoholic. The other, another strong controlling but better educated and wealthier man than my dad. In retrospect, I think my folks had good SF. That's probably why there are so many kids. My dad wasn't very involved with his children. Perhaps a product of his day and the need to work many jobs to support us. I often felt that he was based in a different reality and just didn't get life today.

I came into my marriage with the rolemodel that the man was the head of the family. H has never taken that role. I have always been a strong, capable person. I was sucked into the vacuum. When we had kids, somebody had to be the parent and care for our household. H had hip problems that limited his life. He focused his energy on providing the financial support. I willingly took up the family duties.

I think that if I want to control him, it comes from the fact I've been in control of so much else. He is a no-waves kind of guy. I think he's often said yes and then snuck around and done something else. It's taken years to find that out.

I've got to get DD from practice. I also need to think through the rest. Back later.

{{{{GG}}}}}}

It looks like I will "get together" with CH either tomorrow or Sunday. He finally found the time to answer my 2nd email.

I feel like I'm nearly at the end of the effort that needs to be put in to start to recover this marriage. Realistically, I don't think he has it in him or the desire to change. However, I need to know that I have tried EVERYTHING that I can.

At this meeting, I plan to be pleasant and light. I will dress nicely. I will drive to whereever in my own car.

I want to feel out where he is at. I haven't said more than 25 words to him since October. He's really excited about his trip. Every email contains a picture from it. A big trip can be life changing. I'm interested in it anyway.

We have to talk about our taxes.

We have to talk about a trip I want to taken with DD. We want to visit friends out of the USA and I need his agreement on that. The government often requires the permission of the other parent to remove a child from the USA. I want that nailed down before I book.

I will not trust anything CH says. I will work on my reverse babble.

I have already made an evening appointment in a week with my therapist. All CH has to do is show up. IC? MC?

Lately, I have often 'daydreamed' about what it would be like to have a more equal partner in a relationship. I would like a relationship based on trust and love and sharing. Somebody who wants to go to soccer games with me, is balanced about his work, will cleanup if I cook or visa versa, and more.

This meeting is an exploratory one. CH needs to earn his way back into this marriage. No ultimatiums will be issued. I just want to see where we stand. I think I know but I need to do the steps. They could be steps towards the end.

I feel tired.

(((grapegirl)))

Grapegirl:

I don't really understand what you are doing. But, who says I need to understand... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You seem to forget that you are dealing with a WH or CH..an alien... a special breed..not a normal human being...

Don't expect him to be truthful with you..He just won't be..I guarantee you...

I really do wish you well, Grape...

Come back and let us know how this goes...


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Coward or busy man? I'm putting my money on coward. With a big unhealthy dollop of conflict avoiding.

Early in the week, CH agreed to meet sometime this weekend. On Friday, I emailed CH to say that since DS would be home to be with DD, I would be available Friday night, later on Saturday or Sunday. He emailed back that since he'd be "there" longer, guess I'm suppose to assume at work, that the other days would work better.

Saturday morning, I emailed that we'd be busy much of the day but call or TM with a time. DD was at a sporting event in which she did very well...against boys. Her brother and I cheered her on. Around 7 pm, as we left, another mom invited us out for a bite to eat. My first instinct was the basic "wait by the phone" one. Fortunately, good sense prevailed. DD and I went out for a lively dinner with our friends. I told DS that he wouldn't need to stay with his sister that night and could spend time with his girlfriend. He did without grumbling about the strange plans. He is such a sweet "boy".

When we got home, there was no phone message on the machine, no email and CH had certainly not texted me or called my cell. I'm thinking he probably needed to cosy up to OW after his time away. So, I sent a TM "Didn't hear from U about tonight so went out with friends. Later."

We'll see what today brings. Tomorrow is a school day. Later today, DS will be going back to college. I do not want to leave DD alone for very long at night. I'm not sure her father has clued into that.

What an uncaring man CH is. Does this tell me all I need to know?

IMO, this SIMPLY (for want of a better word) tells you that he continuing to have an affair AND you broke your PLAN B.

He is ADDICTED TO HER, Grape...

HE CANNOT EASILY BREAK AWAY AT WHIM!!!

You don't believe us when we try to inform you of how this works? You feel that your WH is different than any of the others?

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I do not feel that my CH is any different than any other cheating husband in this universe. However, different CHs have different motivations and histories. Similiar but not the same. That's why Steve Harley has a bag of "tricks" for dealing with them.

I don't think that Plan B is making a bit of difference. It could make a difference if he cared about ANYTHING he is separated from. I've Plan B-ed for 8 months. Not perfectly but pretty black when you have kids. Unlike many CH on this forum, he has never tried to break my Plan B. There have been no false recoveries and little remorse. What does he care? As long as he continues to fund the family, nothing is different. He's getting just what he wants: hands-off parenting, a feeling of supporting the family and no accountablity. I'm also beginning to believe that a prolonged Plan B protects the BS but may not do much at all for the relationship.

What I know:

He is a liar. Everything he says is suspect.

He is a cheater. Slimeball OW is still out there. Perhaps not prominently but there. There could be others at this point. CH hasn't tried to introduce OW to any family.

He has minimal contact with his children and isn't bothered by it at all. A sobbing daughter, angry sons and concerned grandparents haven't changed that.

He doesn't even worry about our dogs. So much for the man-dog bond. (just a little humor)

He refuses counseling.

I do not have to rewrite history to know that we have had an unequal marriage. I was rereading some of my old journals the other day. Things have happened that I cannot go into here. I have carried the weight for years. The problems have been there for a long time.

I don't think this is all about OW. Yes, there is an addiction. But, CH has withdrawn from everything that forms the basis of our life. The affair, probably an exit one, was the last push in the drift away from his family. He is addicted to his "freedom", his "single" lifestyle, his lack of responsiblities. CH loves his secrets but is probably relieved he doesn't have to sneak around to fulfill whatever it is he wants. Even Steve Harley was stymied by CH.

Questions: Is this a man I can re-form a relationship with? If CH is unwilling to affect any changes and I am unwilling to accept him the way he is, what's left to do? Can I admit to myself what needs to be done?

I hold to the MB principal of doing everything I can to recover this marriage. However, I'm not going to let this drag on forever. As much as I am protected by Plan B, CH is protect by the status quo we've developed. It's the perfect place for a conflict avoider. Posts like Mimi's make me realize how much I am treading water.

It's time for the wake up call and the consequences. I'm attempting to start this process without getting a lawyer involved first. I want him to know that I am near the end of my rope. I'm reminded of that old country western song (Tammy Wynet?) where she sings "Please release me, let me go..." I think he needs to hear this.

BTW: I am sad and upset and angry. I am tired of the disrespect shown to me by CH. I've been considering what direction to go for a long time. It's not a simple thing.

GG - you can't be married by yourself. That's what I think.
Mulan

GG,

We seem to be at very similar places. (See my thread about my session with SH) and both ready to move on. I am not sure I have much advice for you, just wanted you to know that I understand how you feel.

GG - I have not been in Plan B near as long as you, but I can in a way understand where you are coming from.....I often ask myself the question of how long I will stay in Plan B. Although we try to move forward and work on ourselves, it's still sometimes hard when WH is still out there.

Not what our veterans like to hear.....but it's hard not to think that way sometimes.

Kim

This is why I asked you if he you think he is different? This sure sounds like my WH...

I think the FALSE RECOVERIES and HIM trying to reach me was AWFUL..I still didn't have him..he still was with the OW..it was ALL BULL..GIVING ME FALSE HOPE...It might have been better if he had not tried to reach me...YUK!!

IMO, what seems different in your situation, Grape, is I don't hear you talking much about YOUR LOVE for your HUSBAND..I missed my H-all that I had loved about him prior to his affair..as much as I loathed the WH, I thought my real H was still there somewhere and could possibly return...and he has...



IMO, you won't know this until he is rid of the OW..until he is out of withdrawal..RIGHT NOW, I've been trying to say to you..that HE IS A WAYWARD SPOUSE..AN ALIEN BREED..

If you are basing whether or not you want to remain married or not ON THIS CH PERSON, I would say NO...

It took 6 months or more before my WH was out of the fog and began to act normally....

You are different than me. I know. I never ever got to the point of considering a divorce. I was willing to WAIT...

I'm not criticizing you for your choice, Grape. I am sharing where I am coming from and how we are different...

BTW, Dr. Harley does recommend 2 years in PLAN B...You say that your PLan B has lasted 8 months...

Actually, what Steve Harley told me is that Plan B is a holding pattern you keep until you run out of gas. My tanks are pretty low.

At this point, I'm not sure what love I have left for my H. Certainly none for CH. My serenity and peace have been destroyed.

What can help you regain your serenity and peace?

The answer for me was to begin to FOCUS ON MYSELF and to set my WH free..to come back when he was ready.

I got an email from CH about Saturday. Apparently, he'd spent too much time at our local brewery/pub and wasn't able to go out. Of course, the brewery closes at 7 which was about the time I gave up on him. There was no phone call, TM or anything all night.

Of course, this is standard operating procedure for the wayward, right? Cowardly, untrustworthy, evasive and full of lies. It's not only one more disrespectful thing to me but also to everyone else here. DS cancelled his date because he had promised to stay with his sister. CH is so remote from the reality we live. He hasn't clued in that a 12 year old doesn't like and shouldn't be left alone for long periods of time at night.

I'm feeling that perhaps the best way to get some peace of mind is to start some kind of legal action. I'm not ready to file divorce but perhaps a legal separation would help. That would iron out the most troublesome issues like finances and custody. Maybe I shouldn't bother since it's all lies with him.

Mimi, did you do a LS and did it make a difference to you?

I got a LS as soon as my H left home.

I think that's a good idea for you to do that Grape.

You need legal protection from your CH.

Hi, I hate to threadjack, but I have a question on LS. Mimi, is it a good idea to go through with it when the WH moves out? My H is already talking about getting an apt. And, with the LS, can you still Plan A, or does it go hand in hand with Plan B?

IMO, what PLAN you are in and whether or not you get a LS are two different issues.

I thought Grape should have gotten a LS a long time ago..even when I was recommending PLAN A for her and NOW I am recommending PLAN B for her.

A LS is about taking care of herself and your children..regardless of what the WH does...or what PLAN you are in...

When it was clear to me that my WH was not going to end it with the OW, I had to get a LS because SHE would have access to MY MONEY..MONEY THAT WAS LEGALLY DUE TO ME FROM MY H...I had to make claim to what RIGHTFULLY BELONGED TO ME AND MY CHILDREN..At that point, I was saying and thinking MY CHILDREN rather than OUR CHILDREN because his primary focus was on HER....

If he was going to spend money on her..which he did..I wanted her to have what was LEFTOVER..I didn't want her digging into MY POT..

Realistically, though, the OW is going to get some of YOUR MONEY or MONEY that is RIGHTFULLY yours. It is impossible to keep this from happening. However, you want to at least LIMIT her GOLD-DIGGING CAPACITY.. The FOW, in my situation, was a GOLD-DIGGER, for sure. I heard her tell my FWH, when he was ending it, "I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN MORE MONEY FROM YOU.." YUCK!!!!

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Last night, I was ambushed by a postcard. After being home nearly a week and a half from his trip, DD finally got a postcard from her father.

It was addressed only to DD.

While that is fine, it just struck me hard that my name wasn't on the card. After so many years together, it's like being rubbed out. It hurt. It made me cry...not for a long time but enough for DD to ask about it.

Just one more thing.