I have the hardest time seeing him.
THe hardest time. I am much stronger when he is not around.

He came by after turning in lawyer paperwork. He told me the 27 should be the final day. THat's soon.

He said he doesn't want this.
I asked him if he still had a girlfriend.
He said yes, but I have to be with someone.
THen he went into the whole smeal about how he never wanted to leave. He didn't leave for her--they happened much later (um, like i believe that. And he considers 2 months "much later.") How it was how I treated him. He didn't want to end up in a loveless marriage. (that's a new one i haven't heard from him yet.)

But people--this is not sincere. Tell me I am seeing this right. Tell me this is not a person good for me and the boys. I know it is not, but darn it--well, you know.

It's hard. His test is tomorrow. If he doesn't pass, no more teaching. That will crush him.

When I saw him, i felt weird. He made me newvous. Once, he got a little close, and his arm almost hit mine. It really freaked mt out. I have put up this barrier I think. Maybe it's the hurt I haven't dealt with.

I just can't seem to get past some things right now.

“He said yes, but I have to be with someone.”

This says reams about his character right there.

That’s not even the fog talking. That sounds like basic personality.

He will never be happy until he somehow fixes this. He can look forward to one shallow relationship after another, for the rest of his life. If he has enough sense to look forward, that is.

You may tell him I said so, too.

With prayers,

Your husband is way out there, and spouting off the usual things. My WH still insists that the reason we are getting divorced is because I put him out of the house. The fact that he has been living with the OW for the last 3 years doesn't have anything to do with our marriage problems according to him.

Oh, you're right...

What's sad is EVEN IF he was right, when did this life start being about BEING HAPPY? What about his responsibilities to you and his children? What about his wedding vows?

Ugh.

Sorry it' going so fast, I still pray he will wake up.
How's your little baby?

MSA

Thanks for asking, msa. i've been hoping you'd pipe back in on my posts. You're one of my grreatest encouragers here.

baby is doing well. 2 months old tomorrow and 14lbs. looks just like his daddy--even gonna be a redhead, too.

WH and i have been on the phone for the past hour, on and off.

first, he was saying that he wanted to die again.
then he called and said he would never do that.
then he kept saying how this was all my fault.
he defended ow a lot.
said she made him happy.
he asked why things were so bad for him.
i said it was the sin he was committing with her.

he also said no where it says in bible that it is wrong to sleep with someone when you're not married. (he was a religion major in college btw)

then he just called back and wanted me to promise not to call her.

this happened before when baby was born. almost the same conversation.

he told me today that the baby was a symbol to him of all the things he has failed at in life.

he also insists that i have never taken any blame.

i sent him and ow a letter back in october. i'll post it in my next post--i think i took adequate blame. i got a lot of it from other posts here on mb.

he also said:
I am okay. I'm peachy. Just peachy.

well, couldn't help but think of justpeachy who posts here!

here is the letter i sent a while back. i realize now it was too long and that his fogged out mind wouldnt get it. but honestly--can he not see that i have shown i am sorry?

Dear Tim and Tiffany,

I am writing this letter to the both of you because it is my desire for my marriage to be reconciled, and in making that a possibility, both of you will be heavily involved in the recovery process and will need to understand where I am coming from.

I will start with myself. I helped to set up a climate where Tim felt unloved and neglected. Did I do this on purpose or throw it in his face in a mean way? Never. And Tim has acknowledged this to me since he has left. He says he knows I would never hurt him on purpose. I take full responsibility for not meeting that need to be desired in the form of affection--I was not into kissing. I wanted to be. I did. But I was bitter myself for the hurts I was feeling. Was it my silent weapon? Did it do damage? Yes. It hurt the one I vowed to love forever. For that my heart aches daily. I have said I am sorry from the beginning--not because my back was against a wall--but because I have the biggest heart when it comes to Tim. I love him more than I knew was possible. Seeing him cry because I hurt him and made him feel unloved has been one of my hardest life lessons. But I say again, I can change only the future. In short, I am not blameless and will not allow myself to climb onto that “holier than thou pedestal”. I have confessed my neglect to God and to my husband. I can do nothing more now. I do believe that I was a great wife in most other aspects. I cared for Tim like no other has. I was always there for him, always available to help him, stay up late while he slept to help him, etc. I did those things because I loved him and wanted to be the wife God wants me to be to him. And I believe this is no reason to end a marriage.
The issue of trust seems rather silly to discuss in light of recent events. All I can say is that yes, I will not be very trusting in the future. But it is not a hopeless situation. God can heal my hurt.
The issue of female friends--I will refuse to budge on this. My stance will always be that they are a danger. Look at the present situation. Seperated or not, we are still married. These friendships meet needs in us that only our spouse should be allowed to meet. Plus, it hurts my heart as deeply I would think as my lack of affection has hurt Tim. And for that, I need to respected.

To you, Tim. What can I say? Again, I am sorry for the hurt I have caused you. We have A LOT to discuss involving you and Tiffany, and even more, the atmosphere that was present in our marriage that allowed what happened between the two of you to happen in the first place. I am sure we both need to have a moment of radical honesty and get it all out. Get out onto the table what needs repair. I will say that nothing you did is in anyway justifiable. It is purely wrong and independent of everything else. It was a choice you made, knowing full well the pain and anguish it would cause me. The hurt that I feel regarding how easily you could dismiss me and our marriage vows and the hurt I feel thinking of you holding another woman and touching another woman is outright unbearable at times. It hurts more I think coming at a time when I am carrying your child--a time when I should be given the most slack and feel the most safe and the most treasured. It is the greatest pain I have ever felt. It is betrayal. It is degrading to my self esteem. But it is forgivable. God's grace is not something to show sparingly. I vowed to love you in good times and bad. This is bad. WAY BAD. But I can't give up. If you know anything about me, it's that I am able to forgive. This one is a biggy, though. I do not think it will be easy to get over. But the painful road ahead will be worth it. Our family will stay together. Ours boys will know the joy of growing up with their dad full time. And you and I will have stayed within the will of God for our marriage.

Remember, Satan seeks to destroy our relationship with God. And one of his favorite targets is marriage. He does not seek to destroy everything all at once. He does it one little piece at a time. Doubts. Fears. Disrespect. Taking for granted. Treating each other as competitors with, and not completers of, each other. The list goes on and on. Marriage is a covenant between God, husband and wife. It was established by God way back in the Garden of Eden. Where better to drive a wedge between man and God than in the one area that we are to be most “Godlike”? I may be a woman, but I am also a “bride of Christ”. I have chosen poorly several times over the years, sought forgiveness from Christ and received it. He has waited with great patience for me for many years, bearing my “slips” and my vision clouded by the fog of worldly and personal pursuits. Dare I be any less patient and forgiving to you? I am talking about eternity here, not just our meager years here on Earth. Has Christ endured all that we have, and much more? Has he been rejected, lied to, betrayed? Yes, much more than I have been faced with these past two months. That is not to diminish or deny the painful truths that accompany this affair. It is to comfort me and hopefully you with the knowledge that God truly does understand what we are going through and let’s us know that there can be restoration (ask Peter), that there can be turning from sin and following God in obedience (ask Paul), that there can and will be a brighter future for all who have accepted Christ and have an eternal destiny in heaven, that there IS HOPE!! I can't begin to tell you the changes I have made these past two months to myself.

To you, Tiffany.
Tim asked me this weekend if I hated you? I said no. Immediately. Didn't have to blink. Why? Lots of reasons. Mainly because I know you will have this load on your shoulders for the rest of your life. God will forgive you and there is no need to carry around guilt forever (afterall, there is freedom in Christ), but in a small way, this kind of baggage doesn't ever go away. God disciplines us for our sin. I also don't hate you because I realize we are all capable of anything apart from God. We all sin. We all screw up. I can forgive you because God commands me to do so. I am angry, yes. I don't think highly of you honestly. I wondered many nights how you could "mess" with Tim, when he said you knew good and well that I wanted my marriage to work, or knowing that I was home pregnant with two small children. You know nothing about me other than what he has told you. And I doubt he has made me out to look great. I am so glad that I have only a vague memory of what you look like. I know you are attractive and thinner than I am, and that in and of itself makes me feel inferior already. I hope I will not always use you as a measuring stick to what I need to be physically. I want to be loved no matter what for who I am. You are married, too. Tim says your marriage is ******. That may be. But it is still no excuse for either of you. I am asking one simple thing of you in all of this. Please leave my husband alone and never contact him again. It will do your marriage good and it will do mine wonders. It is imperative for our survival. In fact, if there cannot be an agreement of no contact, then I, too, can not see this working. This means, no e-mail or text messages ever again. You will need to lean on another friend--not MY husband.
If Tim doesn't agree to this either, then that is the final chapter. This is where I can look up and say "God, I have done all I can do." You can have him then. And then I can begin to heal. I say this because I am not a doormat, I am not something to be referred to as "settling for," and I will not be second choice. Not after I offer forgiveness so freely. Not after I say i am sorry and take my part in the lack of affection. Not after I am given permission by God to end my marriage because of adultery. God HATES divorce, and doesn't want this for our life. But as I have been reminded by a dear and Godly friend, he also gave me that out because of what conspired between the two of you. He wants Tim and I to work through this--to struggle through the murky waters and dark days that lie ahead--because in the end, that union--the fact that we are one in Christ--will have stayed intact. We will have reconciled ourselves to not only each other, but also to Him who has our greatest well-being in mind. And in the end, we can glorify Christ through our marriage and reconciliation.

Intexas

You might send him these:

For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, and smoother than oil is her speech; but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword. Her feet go down to death, her steps lay hold of Sheol. She does not ponder the path of life; her ways are unstable, she does not know it, Proverbs 5:3-6.

To keep you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulteress. Do not desire her beauty in your heart, nor let her catch you with her eyelids, Proverbs 6:24,25.

This is the way of an adulterous woman; she eats and wipes her mouth, and says, "I have done no wrong," Proverbs 30:20.

Goods one believer. I am amazed that he can rewrite his belief system. Really amazed.

I guess this is a coping mechanism.

He is actually calling again while I type this. I put the phone on silence. I just can't deal with this anymore tonight. It's like he thinks it is perfectly normal to talk to me about her.

okay. I answered the phone. He just kept calling. I am a sucker, i know.

He was balling his eyes out, saying "honestly, if I was not with her, would I be with you?"

I said "it's a lot more than that involved."

He said okay and hung up.

he sounds so desperate. He's miserable. And I take no joy in that.

Tell him that he belongs with you and his family.

I really think that he will be back. He is just addicted right now. Think of him being like a heroin junkie.

Tell him, someone ought t/b happy with all this misery he's caused. That's what I told the WS in my case. I told him that our family suffered big time, no one not God, his family, telatives, frieds, neighbors or workmates were happy soooo he'd better be. The OW's happiness doesn't count cuz she's a strange stranger to me. I set that right up front. Told him to smile, dammit! LOL!!!

Of course, a WS just can't do what a BS tells him to so he had a very twisted look on his face. Imagine that face going back to the OW. Yea, I really messed with his mind on that one. LOL!!!

Tell him, if he can't come back clean and without babbling or blubbering, then he'd better stay with someone who wants him dirty and bawling his eyes out. That your family wants t/b around happy people not those who babble.

Then let him go figure out who he really is. Seems like the WS is losing his grip. That's a good sign but not one you can give him credit for. You actually have to like seeing him squirm because that's the WS squirming and your real H is trying to escape. Don't stop that process.

Encourage it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Believer and Orchid.

i was actually thinking when we were talking--what would Orchid and her RB say? It is quite funny how much MB has infiltrated my everyday life--and I'm not even a super frequent poster.

He called again--this time to tell me the good things he remembers about me--maybe OW is losing her luster.

Or maybe (and sadly I am buying this maybe more than the other) he is trying the "nice guy" approach now to "sneak in the back door." I really believe he doesn't want to be alone and that's why he is doing this.

Maybe I have a hard time understanding what commitment means to him now, or what love looks like to him.

Crazy--all these conversations have been in one night.
I am exhausted. Baby will be up to nurse again in 3-4 hours. And I defineitely have a tension headache.

Thanks guys. You've been a life support again for me tonight.

Nite. Nite.

See how he is waivering? Very typical for a WS who is fighting to be a WS yet struggling with the spouse who can see a bito' light and wants out!

The more you leave him wondering, the more it will irriate him. Throw him a curve and demand he be happy since you are all suffering anyway. DEMAND IT!!! LOL!!!

Practice your RB in the mirror. Then when he calls it will flow out more naturally. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Get some rest 2!

Take care,
L.

InTexas,
You know Mel, Longhorn and I are not very far from you- how about us coming by and having a 'chat' with WS?

Seriously, I know this is so hard for you.

Is there a pastor or man from your church that could go visit and talk to him. Maybe he would open up to someone or maybe God could use them to show him the way out of the darkness.

Praying for you today

say to ws my friend this...
"well honey I don't want to be alone either...so we have a choice. You GO WITH ME TO A COUNSELOR (MB ONE), move out from OW, and we can have a chance."

RB this back to him. "I don't want to be alone. I shouldn't have to be alone now. YOUR kids don't want to be with just one of us..they feel alone too. If you don't want to be alone, then GET AWAY FROM OW...SHE IS MAKING YOU FEEL ALONE. I mean, the nerve of her NOT supporting you like this..making you feel alone."

try that one. turn it on the ow. make him think it's the OW WHO IS MAKING HIM FEEL ALONE...

why?

IT IS THE TRUTH...HIS AFFAIR IS ISOLATING HIM...GIVING HIM THE PAIN...but he is foggy still and unable to see it...that spin and blame approach on ow might just do it.

if you can just coax the alien enough to want to go to counseling...then maybe a teeny teeny bit of building can finally begin.

but he's gotta WANT TO GO. wave the carrot in front of the alien's eyes hon.

I'd fedex overnight to him a tape of the kids' voices saying "daddy we love you and miss you" and some of their pictures they drew.

HE NEEDS TO FEEL ALONE NOW. THAT WILL BUST THE AFFAIR.

IT IS NOT A LB. USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE...

it might just break thru the fog.

SEND IT AND TELL WS THAT IT IS THE OW MAKING HIM FEEL ALONE!

I believe in orchid's reverse babble a ton. and I also believe there are certain sitch's which call for stealth maneuvering and going for the proverbial jugular. your ws's ow has NOTHING TO LOSE...she's also filed for divorce and crossed the boundary of no return in her own marriage.

so get in there...and do this. and when he comes out of his hole he's living in...let the counselor (mb approved one) begin to do the work...get him out a little...them do some work...and angle for him immediately to move out from ow's house.

Thanks guys.

OKay.

I'm just gonna come out and say it.

I am not sure I can do this anymore.

It's been 7 months. That's just from when he left. He'd been threatening for a few weeks before that.

Not that I don't have the strength--I have grown in leaps and bounds in strength. I've had to become tough.

Part of me feels like I am giving up.

I see the boys, and think how this should not be their life.

But WH did this. And he is being a horrible dad to them. He has told my oldest to keep secrets.

There are no guarantees in life. I know now that I can not trust my WH--not just in faithfulness, but in his commitment to marriage.

I look ahead and I am seeing a life where I will work hard, trust in God to provide for me and the boys--I see a life where it is me and the boys. Where they will see me as a source of strngth for them--without the daily damage WH can cause for them.

THey are so young.

I look ahead and I don't see me with WH anymore--when I think of the prospect of recovery--I am simply terrified now. I don't have visions of grandeur or a false sense of what could be. I just have an uneasy feeling.

I am not tired of helping WH. I hate to see him go throug this. But I don't see us as a unit anymore.

Is this just anger or hurt manifesting itself? Or is really just the wise thing to do?

Someone said that this was going to be up to me in the end. While I know WH is not near where he needs to be, I am so scared to admit that I am not so sure anymore.


I want WH to heal. Be the man I thought he was. But not for me. Anyone been at this point?

If he was ever truly repentent...well, maybe it would be different. I am just not sure anymore.

Your feelings are normal. I can't begin to tell you how many times I felt like that. But I think you are very healthy to think about these things. In the end, you will be the one to decide if you will take him back. Recovery is twice as hard as what you are going through now, if you can believe that.

I would make myself a good life, and a good life for my boys. That way, whatever you decide will be okay. I did that and my life is better than it was before. I decided that I DON'T want my husband back.

But there are many here who got through this and went on to have wonderful marriages, much better than before. Don't make any rash decisions.

Many of us have been where you are right now. I can say that your sitch is still in the new stages.....seems like forever, I know but it is still relatively painful and fresh.

R U going to hang on? Yes you will. When you think you can't, u will find the strength and u will hang on. One day later u will look back and say wow....don't know how I did it but I did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep posting. We can help you not get sucked in by the fog. U have t/b ready t/d some pretty weird maneuvers..... know how to reverse babble yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

U have little ones depending on you and a nut of an H out there trampsing around as a WS. Got to extract that alien from his body. Where's those MB pliers?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I am just wanting to not have to do the maneuvers anymore-I want HIM to decide what HE really wants, not just see me as a safety net. I refuse to take him back if he can't commit to marriage, though.

I know this is a season in this journey, but how do you know when you've really reached your limit?

orchid--am I really getting sucked into the fog myself? I'm not sure what this means in relation to a bs. oh==and as for reverse babble-I'm getting it down well. Helps ground us bs's I think.

When you get too stressed, just put him on the back burner, and get busy with living your life. This stuff wears you out in a hurry. Take good care of YOU.