traicionado,

Frozen dinners no doubt. But Stouffers frozen dinners. I am going first class. Chicken and pasta tonight.

Sorry to hear you are sick.

Okay teach I am relieved. I had my right hand extended so you could rap me with a ruler.

You are correct as usual. I can do nothing to split the AP. Plan A could not do it either. It's up to Plan B, right?

ToddAC-

This worries me:


1. NC with OM
2. MC/IC
3. Transparency and restore trust
4. No secrets
5. No friends who are not friends of our marriage

I understand that these are ultimate goals of the MB plan......BUT.

You are trying to break up the affair by filling her EN's, not by giving her a list of demands.

You should let her know that contact with the OM is not acceptable....BUT,(and this is a big but) the object of Plan A is to show your WW that you are capable of filling her EN's (The ones that were missing pre-affair). You need to move back into that house, and start filling those EN's.

Print out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire on the site, and make an educated guess what her EN's might be, and concentrate on the top 3.

IT IS NOT TIME FOR PLAN B for you. You can't do Plan B until you've done an EXCEPTIONAL plan A.

So, move you're booty back in there and start filling her EN's...(was one of her en's more help around the house??) I mean, I know you're ill, and that may not be one you can really do.....but believe me there are many others that could have been lacking.

God Bless,

-Caren

CarenMc,

I got the typical conditions from Bob Pure's post if I remember correctly. So they are not part of Plan A? I can't research because WW hid, or disposed of, my copy of SAA.

I clearly let her know that contact with OM is unacceptable. No doubt there. I tried to get her to complete the EN's questionaire. She refused. She has done almost nothing to affect a workable Plan A. Is Plan A purely my responsiblity?

Yes. All yours dude.

R is both your responsibility but Plan A is all yours.

Reading your posts here, you appear to be wielding plan A as if it were a stick, swatting your WW around the head with it. It needs to be delivered in love an patience, but firmly. It is a proven way to make the created view of you as a beast in your WWs mind look really silly, and start to make her think you may well be a better man than she has convinced herself.

Plan A also requires that you look at yourself critically and change that which needs to be changed in YOU. NO its not fair, but do you want to be right, or do you want to be married ?

* Your instinct as a BS is to be angry, indignant, sad, fearful, reactionary etc and no-one could blame you. However actions supporting these emotions will REINFORCE the fantasy in your WS warped mind that you are a worse bet as a life partner than the OP and that the A was justified.

* You may feel 'better' by venting, doing the vengeance dance etc, but this will almost certainly fatally break your relationship.
* Plan A is a carefully calculated response to the fact of an affair that recognises the strengths and weaknesses of the BS position at this time, and who wants to save their M. It is NOT instinctive, in fact it is counter-intuitive, but it works if adhered to. To use MaddyKs analogy :scratching poison ivy rash feels SO GOOD but causes nothing but grief. Instinct does not always help in complex situations.

* FACT a BS cannot directly stop an affair unless they kill or kidnap one or both infidels, and thats not usually recommended by MC
* FACT NEITHER is a BS as helpless as they think they are, and has an armoury of weapons to use. Plan A bundles these for use in a proven strategy.
* Plan A recognises the uncomfortable reality that although the BS is IN NO WAY responsible for the A and that an A is NEVER JUSTIFIED or OK the BS HAS contributed to the marital environment being ripe for an A. This is a major thing to choke down for most BS ( it was for me!) , but its also a major enabler to recovery. Once you know what broke in YOU you can start fixing it.
* Using tools such as exposure the affairs bindings can be exposed to the light. Typically A's only make sense in a by-the-hour highway motel for two hours at a time when only the lying infidels listen to each others fog drivel and 'lets pretend' sex. Exposure to OPs significant other, and carefully targeted family and friends and colleagues forces this shaky, sex-justfying bag of fluff to the scrutiny of the real world. In MOST cases, the bindings disappear like vampires in the sun leaving the infidels 'love affair' looking like the tawdry, cowardly alternative to fixing a flagging marriage that it truly is.
And YES exposing is counter intuitive too, but it WORKS !! see now ?

* So when the A is exposed as a shabby thing, Plan A also makes sure that you, the BS have ALREADY and PROACTIVELY recognised the failings in your behaviour and demeanour that led to the marriage flagging and made a start at fixing them. You have also patently disarmed your WS by not being violent, disrespectful, unforgiving nor any of the other things that they expected and FEARED you would be. In fact you raised your game SIGNIFICANTLY as spouse material and they begin to notice it, really.
* WSs fear that with the death of the A, they have no safe place to go, not the OP and certainly not home to face the judgment and wrath of the BS they have hurt so much....except the BS has done everything possible to provide a place of calm safety for the WS to return to. My own FWW thought it was a trick! She couldn't believe the loving and non-hudgmental "nest" I'd made for her when she felt she deserved it so little...through Plan A I'm a better Dad than I've been in years, a better listener and more thoughtful of my FWWs needs. Plus MUCH slimmer, fitter and more buff ( GgrrrrOOOWWWLLLLL ! )

* SOME A's bindings are stronger than others and SOME WSs find it harder than others to return home, so plan A may not always work at killing the A and providing a sanctuary for the WS to recover in. Thats when plan B kicks in. Plan B REMOVES the sanctuary , love , forgiveness and support so carefully built and demonstrated in PLAN A from the WS. You do a good plan A and you will be REALLY missed, while OM looks everyday more like the unreliable, lying betrayers they always are.

* See how it works ? By choosing to lay down your righteous indignation in plan A you are in NO WAY a doormat any more than spying for the Allies made brave intelligence folks in WW2 Nazis. You are bravely and deliberately overruling your primal instinct in support of the marriage God gave you and you gave to God and each other.

* STUDY(not just read) SAA, HN/HN , this site, the old heads stories and become aware of the dynamics of affairs. Deconstruct your own situation and apply the principles to it. Knowledge is power. Understand that affairs are JUST LIKE medical conditions, the symptoms, prognosis and cure are all utterly predictable in most cases. Your sitch feels unique BUT IT AIN'T ! THIS STUFF HAS WORKED FOR THOUSANDS OF COUPLES IN EXACTLY YOUR SITCH !

* Finally I have said before that Plan A is a heroes gig and I still think so. For a 'silverback' like me the easy way is to go crashing around hitting people , suing people and making lives bad. Instinct isn't bravery.

Bravery is doing what is needed, however uncomfortable, frightening and counter-instuitive to rebuild a stable loving platform for all involved in the mess of an affair.

Even if Plan A and Plan B doesn't recover your M , it will leave you a much more "examined" person able to move on in life and not repeat the errors that contributed to the problems in the M.

I hope I have helped explain my take on Plan A. And to close, Plan A has worked UP THE WAZOO for us so far so I'm not talking theory.

Calmness is your friend

All blessings.

As a BS, please be aware that you can't control the Ws. Your W maybe open to suggestions but a WS will always want t/d the opposite even if they originally wanted what the BS is suggesting.

Ex:

WS: I want to go to dinner at Chevy's.

BS: Ok.

WS: No, I want to go eat Steak at Outback

BS: Ok,

Ws: No, I want Italian.

BS: Ok, is that your final decision?

WS: No, why do you try to control me. You never let me have any choices..... u r always telling me what to do. I hate you.

BS: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
By this time the BS has lost their appetite or gone out to eat alone.

You see even agreeing w/ a WS can bring on an agrument. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Best to keep away....she want's to eat, say ok and go get yourself some grub. She complains about you never taking her out, tell her that's right....as long as she is acting like a WS, you really don't want t/b seen with her. You'd rather go to dinner with your WIFE!!!!

Todd, I wanted to let you know that you need to take care of yourself. Remember your WS is not your wife....a WS will NOT care as a wife should for her H in his time of need. Get your care and support from others in your family and friends group. Create your own support group for you. Your health condition is serious. Don't waste time on a WS. Take care of u 1st.

Hugz,
L.

Would somebody please ask ToddAC how much sleep he has had in the last three weeks? I do know the answer within +/- 30 minutes. Please somebody make him tell all of you.

Todd - really good insight from others here. Suck it all in. The most important thing to swallow is that you can control no one but yourself.

And no, Plan B is not what separates the affairees either. It separates the BS from the WS before the love bank balance goes into the red.

Only the affairees separate the affairees. They're the best ones for the job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> They can love bust each other faster than any BS can say "alien abduction."

WAT

Hey Todd....I was reading your story last night, since I was not familiar with it. I think your wife is in complete denial of your illness. I cannot believe that after being married for 33 years, she finds out you are sick and she carries on with an Affair. It sounds way too crazy and callous. You say she is from PR,,,they are usually warm ,caring people(not generalizing here). She is running away from your illness,because she is probably scared of what could happen to you.

Is not a good idea for you to move out. YOu need to stay there and remind her that she has a husband still, even if you are sick. You both have to deal with your brain tumor, she needs to support you,care for you,see that you eat and rest properly. YOu cannot be worrying about her whereabouts and what she is doing.

I am really sorry of what you are going thru. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Your tumor must be a benign one, no? Hopefully it is!!

Take care

Myrta

Myrta,

Thank you for your post. WW is in denial. From the day I met her until she started her affair, WW was the most loving, caring, positive and wonderful woman I had ever met. When we met, we fell instantly in love. We told each other over the years how we were meant to be. Since her affair began, she has been remote, cynical, cold and negative. OM has really warped her mind.

When I had to go to the ER the first time, our cars were blocked so WW asked a neighbor to drive us. Her husband drove us instead. While I was in the treatment room, WW stayed in the lobby with our neighbor. I asked the nurse to tell WW I needed her. I had a mild stroke and was confused and scared. My WW came back to the treatment room for five minutes and disappeared again. Looking back, it was the first shot she fired across the bow. The neighbor who drove us to the hospital is the OM. Even as I was in the ER, she could not tear herself away from the OM. I tell you this to illustrate how addicted she is to the OM.

I exposed WW one week ago. When I called OMXW, she commented that she had told WW numerous times that OM was a philanderer. WW had the benefit of knowing what OM was after and she still became a sick notch in his belt. WW confessed to me that she knew that but is still madly in love with the OM. Our sons knew something was amiss but not the particulars. When I exposed to them, they all commented that WW had developed a coldness towards them. Without my knowledge, she had also asked each of our sons if they would support her if she divorced me. They had no idea why at the time.

The reason I moved out is because I needed positive people around me. WW has never once asked how I feel, what did my doctor say or anything related to my health. I don’t dwell on my tumor either. WW affair precluded that. WW was so negative it depressed me even more than I already was. I could not take it any longer. I am currently staying with DS1 and he is a very positive person. It is a much better environment. Staying here is not a permanent solution however and the time will come when I need to make a decision about my future.

So the affair started before you getting ill....Were your symptoms before falling ill, affecting your personality.? Did you behave differently? I know that sometimes the pressure of the tumor can affect the person that way. I had a neighbor that had a brain tumor and his personality did a 180 degree turn. The wife could not understand what was happening.

I am going to assume that she started to talk to OM(neighbor) complaining aboout you,blah,blah,,,and thats how everything started. What are the plans of OM's wife? DOes she want to save their marriage or is she giving up on him.

Its amazing,unreal, that your wife is still carying on the affair even after your sons found out. I would be out of my mind ,if that happens, trying to make it up to all of you!!

I am glad that you are feeling more positive staying with your son. I am sure they are also sad because of their mom's behaviour. I have four adult kids and they would literary die, if my husband and I were to divorce or separate. They think we are perfect, with no problems.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What is the prognosis of your tumor? Are you getting radiation to reduce its size?>HOw do you feel from day to day with your illness?


Take care

Myrta

Todd - just wanted to say that this OM sounds like a class guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Actually took you to the hospital and is boinking your wife?

FWIW, the OM in my sitch was also a close neighbor - my wife's best friend's husband. He was a pallbearer for my deceased son just a few months before the affair started. Another class guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

"Pond scum" isn't quite descriptive enough, huh?

Hang tough.

WAT

Myrta,

WW started her affair after I got ill. I had been to my PCP with initial headache symptoms. He diagnosed it as sinusitis. After a while, I developed other symptoms and PCP finally sent me for a CT. The CT was negative and I was referred to a neurologist who specialized in migraines. Ergo my headaches were diagnosed as migraines. What PCP should have prescribed was an MRI which detects soft tissue abnormalities. It was finally diagnosed correctly after I changed PCP. New doctor realized it immediately.

Yes, my personality was affected. I was weak, negative and depressed. I was a different man than any other time in my life. I had always been strong, positive, confident and ambitious. I was her rock. After getting ill, I could no longer work. It is easy to understand how this must have confused and scared her. I will never understand why she couldn’t turn to a support group, friends, counselor or clergy.

I don’t know the genesis of her affair other than she thought I was dying and that the OM was “very charming” and “said and did the right things”. I am sure he heard of my plight from his wife who was a close friend of WW. Then all he had to do was formulate his plan of attack. Philanderers specialize in recognizing vulnerabilities and capitalizing on them.

OM wife divorced him 14 months ago because she knew he was having another affair. She had no idea with whom until I exposed WW to her. WW feels no guilt or remorse about the end of her friend’s marriage. The all knowing and wise OM told WW the divorce had nothing to do with her.

It is exactly one week after exposure. WW continues to deny her affair to the people I exposed to. It would seem that exposure backfired. WW has a temper and is livid with me for exposing. I have maintained NC with WW since move out. She communicates through sons.

Sons were crushed to learn of WW’s affair. Our sons will be devastated if we divorce. We have always been a happy and close family. We were regarded by relatives, friends and neighbors as being the perfect couple and family. Sons always had so much pride in our relationship. That sweet innocence is dead.

I don’t like to talk about my tumor except to mention it in my story because it did lead to my WW having an affair. I do receive radiation and it does affect my daily living. My memory and cognitive abilities are impaired. If I don’t make sense with what I write sometimes, at least you will know why. I choose to believe my future is good.

I am pleased that you are posting to my thread. You bring a viewpoint that is much appreciated.

WAT,

I replied to your post but don't see it. Will try again.

OM is a class act. He has panic attacks and is a hypochondriac. He tried to commit suicide a few years ago. He was sitting in his car in the garage with the engine running. His wife came home, saw the situation and saved him. I will not state the obvious...

I am so sorry to learn that you lost a son. I can not imagine such a horror. My heart goes out to you.

ToddAC

Todd:

Many of these OMs have antisocial personality disorder. It is a shame that many WWs do not recognize this. My MC is 100% certain Myrta's OM has APD. When we spoke to MC his jaw dropped to the ground regarding OMs ADP traits.

At this point your neighbor probably thinks he is doing nothing wrong and your wife is foggy as ******. IMHO, the last stage of recovery for a FWW is the recognition that OM was not Mr. Perfect. OM is probably acting like your wife's guru. Remember howw reverend Jones lead the folks to mass suicide many years ago? As of now she is like a drug addict----and drug addicts will rob money from their parents and grandma to get their fix.

Maybe your sons could pay a visit to this OM and give him ******. If they do this often enough he may give up. Myrta's OM was like that--he would not give up.

Stanley,

Hello and thanks for your post.

I was not familiar with APD so I just researched it and OM could easily fall into this category.

Last year, OM almost died in the hospital due to some weird infection that got out of hand. When he was at that point that others report seeing a bright light, he saw dark demons come out of the ground, grab him and take him underground with them. Sounds like a scene from the movie "Ghost".

My oldest son told me he was going to confront OM. I admonished him to not do so. He has his Mother's temper and things could easily get out of hand.

I should say that we moved a year ago from the neighborhood for reasons that had nothing to do with WW affair.

I found an online article that discussed philandering. I have pasted the relevant portion below. This article describes OM perfectly.

"Philandering is a predominantly male activity. Philanderers take up infidelity as a hobby. Philanderers are likely to have a rigid and concrete concept of gender; they worship masculinity, and while they may be greatly attracted to women, they are mostly interested in having the woman affirm their masculinity. They don't really like women, and they certainly don't want an equal, intimate relationship with a member of the gender they insist is inferior, but far too powerful. They see women as dangerous, since women have the ability to assess a man's worth, to measure him and find him wanting, to determine whether he is man enough.

These men may or may not like sex, but they use it compulsively to affirm their masculinity and overcome both their homophobia and their fear of women. They can be cruel, abusive, and even violent to women who try to get control of them and stop the philandering they consider crucial to their masculinity. Their life is centered around displays of masculinity, however they define it, trying to impress women with their physical strength, competitive victories, seductive skills, mastery of all situations, power, wealth, and, if necessary, violence. Some of them are quite charming and have no trouble finding women eager to be abused by them.

Philanderers may be the sons of philanderers, or they may have learned their ideas about marriage and gender from their ethnic group or inadvertently from their religion. Somewhere they have gotten the idea that their masculinity is their most valuable attribute and it requires them to protect themselves from coming under female control. These guys may consider themselves quite principled and honorable, and they may follow the rules to the letter in their dealings with other men. But in their world women have no rights.

To men they may seem normal, but women experience them as narcissistic or even sociopathic. They think they are normal, that they are doing what every other real man would do if he weren't such a wimp. The notions of marital fidelity, of gender equality, of honesty and intimacy between husbands and wives seem quite foreign from what they learned growing up. The gender equality of monogamy may not feel compatible to men steeped in patriarchal beliefs in men being gods and women being ribs. Monogamous sexuality is difficult for men who worship Madonnas for their sexlessness and berate Eves for their seductiveness.

Philanderers' sexuality is fueled by anger and fear, and while they may be considered "sex addicts" they are really "gender compulsives" desperately doing whatever they think will make them look and feel most masculine. They put notches on their belts in hopes it will make their penises grow bigger. If they can get a woman to die for them, like opera composer Giacomo Puccini did in real life and in most of his operas, they feel like a real man."

Thanks Bob Pure for the motivational post. It taught me a lot. I have always been inspired by your story.

Orchid,

Your WS/BS dialogue is all too real. Since WW started her affair, she has rewritten history and claims that I have always tried to control her. It was never an issue before her affair.

I am doing my best to take care of myself. I have a great team of doctors who also take good care of me.

Todd...Hmm, I am so amazed by your wife's behaviour!! I cannot understand her coldness towards you when you are going thru that!! Her OM sounds so disgusting..his wife is better without him,I am sure of that. If he has been having so many affairs, he is not worth 2 cents. Just curious now...is the OM also from US?

So you were her rock before getting sick, and thats why she went for OM. I am sure she is a strong woman too. I am sure if she had tried to understand you, you would be in a different situation right now. So, how do you know your wife is denying the affair to everyone? Did she tell you? Or do people call you back and tell you that?

The way you described your sons, is the way our children are too. They are inocent thinking that we have a faery tale marriage, that those "kinds" of ugly things will never touch our marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I wish time could go back so I could erase what I did! I feel bad for you and your sons. But I am happy you are such a good dad and they can count on your integrity always.

Todd.....what do you think its going to happen to your marriage? Do you see a light at the end of this or not? People can always tell in their hearts if something is going to work or not? DO you think your marriage has hope?

Myrta