sfjaj, you have numerous anti-Marriage Builders opinions and feel quite free to put down the principles. Instead of disrupting the threads of others who really need to be working on their own issues, why not bring your issues HERE to this thread?

Melody, you began criticizing the input in the threads. I wasn't the one who did that. I don't have any other issues; apparently you do with me. And, actually, I have had some agree with me. I don't think you and I have much more to say to one another. I am willing to have a rational discussion, but personal put-downs I don't have time for

sfjaj, people come here to learn about MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPLES and you aren't helping anyone by bashing them and putting them down because you don't like them. Why not keep it here and stop disrupting folks threads?

Once again, Melody, you are quite incorrect. People asked for input; I gave mine from my perspective. I didn't disrupt; I responded to Kim's thread. YOU disrupted it by putting ME down. I agree; you should stop that. I didn't bash the principles; I have followed quite a few; I have disagreement that extreme exposure is correct in every case. CIVIL disagreement is healthy.

sfjaj, yes, you did continually put down Marriage Builders principles. No one has ever said that "extreme exposure is correct in every case."

I am trying to help you understand that folks come here to LEARN about Marriage Builders. And it is fine if you want to put down the principles based on your own "wisdom" but don't get upset when folks point out that you are WRONG and very misinformed. You know nothing about the principles and that is evidenced by your opinions that "affairs are PRIVATE matters" and that exposing an affair is just as bad as HAVING an affair.

So, when you espouse such opinions you sbould expect be challenged and challenged vigorously, because folks like me want to make sure that newcomers are not confused about Marriage Builders principles. That is what they come here for, after all.

That is not an "ATTACK," but a DISAGREEMENT. And as you said, "disagreement is healthy." So expect LOTS of "health" on this forum if you intend on continuing to put down Marriage Builders. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I didn't put down MB; I expressed disagreement, and my response would be "bring on the healthy disagreement." I'm up for it!

Have you considered that maybe folks are here to learn about the MARRIAGE BUILDERS "perspective?" I suspect that since the forum is called MARRIAGE BUILDERS, they may be asking about Marriage Builders, and not our PERSONAL, uneducated philosophy on adultery.

I don't know about you, but I am sure NOT an expert on adultery, so I impart the wisdom of DR HARLEY, the founder of MB.

Perhaps that is what folks are seeking and not views that are CONTRADICTORY to the professional, tried and true principles of Marriage Builders?

I think people can certainly learn from MB AND others' experiences. I, and I'm sure others also, do not believe there is only one authority on adultery and recovery. I learn as much from others' posts as I do the MB website.

Hopefully you listen and start learning from Marriage Builders and don't fancy yourself as an "authority." Dr.Harley IS an authority, though. It really is an excellent program with a very high level of success. You would do well to learn it.

I need to step in here for a brief moment...

sfjaj,
I'm sorry that this is happening to you. The VERY same thing happened to me last week. You did NOTHING wrong. You offered an opinion asked by the poster. Melody disrupted the thread.

MelodyLane,
Yes, this is a Marriage Builders Site and there are Marriage Builders Principles. But, we are entitled to our opinions. IF others do not agree, there is a better way to disagree. Some of your beliefs are extremely strong and I believe that these hard fast rules can have some flexiblity as you saw in my response from Dr. Harley himself last week. Dr. Harley, himself, was flexible on his own MB Principles. It is "your response" to beliefs that are contrary to yours that disrupt the threads. Good discussion CAN happen on these threads without bashing someone's character.

There is a big difference between gently guiding someone to what the MB Principle states vs. bashing someone's intelligence because they differ in their opinion.


I hardly believe that sfjaj fancies herself as an "authority"..Take a look at yourself here...This statement you made really reflects you.

We can all gain here from each other's experiences IF we are allowed to share our experiences and thoughts. What happens is that we aren't "allowed" to share our thoughts and that is wrong.

2BNoraml. Yes you are entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to my opinion that Marriage Builders principles are pretty darn sound and should be defended.

One should not have to come to Marriage Builders and have to defend its principles or watch them contradicted and bashed. Or at least they should not expect to see those contradictions go unchallenged. Thousands of people have benefitted from them so I believe they are pretty sound principles.

Since Dr. Harley IS the authority here and folks come here to learn about his program, they should expect to learn his program and not see it continually bashed and contradicted.

Even so, we are ALL entitled to our opinions and that entitlment works BOTH WAYS. Folks can contradict MB principles all day long, but folks here are also entitled to DISAGREE with those contradictions.

Yes anyone is entitled to DISAGREE. That is not the argument here. The argument is HOW you disagree. We can disagree in a way to further the discussion. We can disagree and guide them. It's when the disagreement gets so strong that the entire thread gets overthrown by a disagreement.

Furthermore, when the disagreement gets so strong, it really pushes the posters away from what you are trying to tell them. We all start to get defensive and then no one gets the help needed.

Which is exactly why I started this thread. This should take place on its own thread and not on some poor, distraught BS' thread. sjfaf has an opportunity on this thread to contradict Marriage Builders principles, all she wants, without disturbing anyone.

2B, thank you so much: you portrayed exactly the point I wished to make. I don't consider myself an authority. Melody, You began the disruption of others' threads. I will continue to relate my experiences and learn from others'. Once again, 2B, well said!!

It wasn't sfjaj that was disturbing anyone. I know you feel differently, but I read the thread in question yesterday and saw how the thread was disrupted.

This is a good idea to start a thread, Mel, whenever you have a disagreement with a poster. At least it will be on it's own thread. I'm just concerned with how you approach your disagreement. It sure made me defensive last week and therefore, things got out of hand. I didn't want that to happen and I hope that you didn't want that either. I really believe you mean well, but we do need to have respect for others in how we respond.

No, 2BNormal, it might AVOID a disruption to allow her to go unchallenged, but it won't help folks who are here to learn MB principles to see them contradicted without challenge. She caused the disturbance by disgreeing with those who were giving the poster MB opinions. She is inviting challenges when she does that.

No one is entitled to go unchallenged and they shouldn't expect to be if they come on a specialized forum and contradict and BASH it's principles. That would be a silly expectation.

And I am sorry you don't like my "approach," but that is your personal issue. I like it just fine, thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There are many approaches here that I don't like, but I don't imagine I am in a position to dictate my personal style to others. Hopefully, you don't either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suggestion:

This is a moderated board. If you disagree strongly with a poster's post, then why not report the post to the moderator and allow them to be the final arbiter of whether or not the post follows the policies of the board?

Discussing finer points of MB philosophy (what's right, what's wrong, what's effective, what's not, how to do <whatever>) seems like the purpose of this board.

Discussing what belongs ON the board or what is appropriate to post seems the purview of the moderating staff. Certainly, they have the final word about it.

Mys

P.S. I'm not reporting this post/thread since I'm not disagreeing strongly with anything on this thread - I'm just posting a suggestion that I hope will facilitate understanding about what REALLY is the policy of the board (ie. instead of a bunch of people speculating, ask the experts and the ones in charge). I mention this only because I want to explain why this post might seem contrary to the suggestion it offers.

2B, you are correct: Melody's heart is in the right place, but she is turning people away with the approach. I don't begin to think I have all the answers, but I would like the option of hearing all feedback, even those who disagree. I think Melody will learn to disagree in the right spirit.

MelodyLane,
I really don't think you are understanding what I've said and what sfjaj said to you. It was the way you disagreed that disrupted the thread.

sfjaj did not bash MB principles by her "opinion". Offering an opinion is not bashing.

Definition of bash: To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly

sfjaj's opinion did not criticize another harshly. But, ML, the way you responded to sfjaj was bashing sfjaj.

So do you honestly think your approach helped sfjaj? Your approach didn't help me last week. We both were bashed for offering our opinion/viewpoint. There ARE better approaches to disagree that will guide the poster to help.

Bashing someone IS not a good approach for anyone to use.

Please re-read this post by the forum moderater:

We were told by the moderator to RESPECT ONE ANOTHER. If you disagree with someone's opinion, state it politely and without condescension or malice - or do not state it at all.

sfjaj, I would think then that you would WELCOME disagreements as you say. So what is the issue? You seem to feel you are entitled to disagree with MB principles, but others are not entitled to disagree with you. Unfortunately, the right to disagree goes both ways, doesn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />