CSJ,

Just checking in to see how your weekend went? Did you and your H go over any MB stuff or your questions?

Hope you had a nice weekend. I'm sick with a cold after taking care of everyone else this weekend. Will be back later this afternoon to check in.

MF

MF-

Okay, so the "talk" didn't go so well. We were having an easy chat last night (Sunday) and I threw in a question about the EN questionnarie. "Did you get that done--I still need to know what I can do better." He first acted confused--"Didn't I do that? I think I started it . . ." But wouldn't say what EN he thought were important. "Just do what you're doing. I'm fine . . . No, I'm great--that's even better than fine, isn't it?"

Okay, so he was kidding around a bit, maybe move into a more serious question. So I asked about the A. Why was it a year--a year is such a long time. "I don't know. I don't want to talk about it." Roll over--close eyes. End of conversation. I try so hard to make him feel "safe" to talk about it. I had a few angry outbursts when I initially found out--and I think I was entitled to those. But really, it's been months since I really vented on him.

So this topic is still off limits, I guess. I need to talk it through--I need to understand it. But he needs to bury it. He cannot face me--he cannot speak about it to me. I have thought all this time that nothing could hurt worse than being betrayed by your spouse--but maybe I was wrong. Maybe it hurts worse to be the WS. I'm not sure if this is a normal WH phase--or a male problem--or just a personality quirk peculiar to my H, but he can't seem to be introspective--he can't look at his actions as say "I was feeling this way" or "this is why I reacted this way." So he can't say why the A affair happened, and he doesn't even want to try. Did your H go through this? Should I just wait it out and try again in a month or so?

So Sunday wasn't such an up day. Sundays are tough on me anyway, I suppose because at church there's such an emphasis on the ideal--on what a marriage should be. And my marriage is so far from the ideal right now. I look around and see so many happy couples, so many husbands that didn't cheat. It's hard not to compare yourself to everyone else, isn't it? But then I do recognize that appearances aren't everything. My marriage appeared to be fine, too. Everyone has a different set of problems.

And it was my birthday, too. I really enjoy my daughter's birthdays so much more than my own! My parents wrote in their card "you deserve the best that life has to offer." I do--I did. I haven't told them about the A. They don't live closeby, plus the A was already over by the time that I found out about it. So there didn't seem to be much point in "exposing" to them. They would be just devastated. And they would never be able to look at my H the same way again. So they still adore my H and are so kind to him--which of course makes him feel even more guilty. But I did expose to my H's Dad and Step-Mom. They live very close and would have heard the gossip anyway--so I wanted them to hear from us first. Plus I knew his Dad would be devastated and sit my H down for a good talk--which he did. They told me in their B-day card "we are so fortunate to have you as a daughter." Their support has been SO good. But the whole situation is not the birthday cheer I would have hoped for.

And milestones like this always make me wonder what my H was doing LAST year at this time. Did he call the OW or meet her on my birthday? Christmas?

But I've made it four months since DDay. And that's four months longer than I thought I could. So there's a thought to smile with! I hope your weekend was a good one, and that you're feeling better. I'll check in again tomorrow.

-C.

You know, all last evening, I kept thinking about what you mentioned with your H--that his parents had gone through an A, too. It all seems to counter-intuitive, you know? That someone could live through that heartache and then allow themselves to hurt their own spouse in the same way. But both of our H's have done just that. I wonder if it's kind-of like living in an abusive household? There have been so many studies about what damage that inflicts on children because so many go on to be perpetrators themselves. Perhaps children in both types of households end up justifying the behavior in the same way--they hate it at the time, but don't know how to do anything differently.

My F-in-law told me that when my H was about 10 yo he confronted his own M about her A. He had seen his M and the OM out jogging together and knew exactly what was really going on. Right during family dinner he blurted out, "So Mom, what were you doing with OM today?" Created a very awkward moment. But F-in-law was really proud of my H, because he had the courage to confront his mom about it. He and his M had some really rough times when the divorce went through because he continued to remind her what she was doing was wrong. She ended up kicking him out of the house when he was just a teen-ager. Her A continued for 10 years before she ultimately dumped the guy and he went back to his wife.

I always thought this whole experience had really given my H a unique appreciation for marriage--yet he was pretty cavalier about tossing our relationship aside, at least temporarily. So strange. And even after watching the soap opera his parent's divorce turned into--I don't think it occurred to him during his A that, if things came to light, I really might leave him. I think he really did justify things be telling himself that no one would ever find out, so no one would be hurt. But the first time I really vented at him after DDay, the light finally went on in his head that he really could loose everything that had been important to him.

Maybe this mentality is really a component of many affairs--one spouse just doesn't take the commitment seriously.

Hope you're feeling better today!

-C

Hi CSJ,

Happy Belated Birthday!!! I also enjoy my kids' bdays more than my own. I tend to expect to much and then get disappointed when my H doesn't do this grand gesture. My birthday is not until next month, and I'm not looking forward to it. My H's is next week and I know I will also be wondering, what did OW get him for his birthday? We have not been good about giving bday gifts to each other. My son's bday is the following week, and we always seemed to put our own bdays out of the way for his. We are all in April...Milestones suck bigtime...I am constantly thinking about what was going on last year..It has gotten easier for me...It WILL get easier for you..

Okay, so your talk didn't go well. Have you been to Marriage counseling at all? Is he willing to work at the M or does he just want to "move on"? My H wanted to move on, still does, hates to talk about the A. I wanted to know all about it...I think that you need to push him on your recovery efforts. Easy for me to say as I still need to push my H on this also. It will not go away on its own. I got some advice from a poster a couple months ago. She and I were in similar situations (like you and I). Her H's A lasted over 1 yr and she was pregnant at the time of it. His A continued until her DD was 18 mos old. She suggested that I write down every question I had, until I had no more...Write down a list, no matter how big or small the question...Write like you had only one chance to get the answers. Re read the list and finetune it. Then try to find out the purpose of each qt or groups of qts. You want to get at how the answer will help you in your recovery...Then, you can see if the answer will truly help you to move on, or if it is just curiousity, or what? Then , you can do a few things, there have been alot of suggestions on this board--you can write it up neatly (I tried to group my qts by topic) and give it to your H and tell him you want the answers. You can do this by setting aside an appt w/ him to do this and tell him you will give him the qts in advance. He may be afraid to hurt you more by telling you the truth, and he won't want to be blindsided. He's probably afraid that you are going to ask him sexual comparison qts or something like that. You need to also set a time limit for the talk so it won't go on forever. I also did a lot of angry outbursts, and Yes, I agree that we are justified in this. But you will realize that if you reward his honesty with calmness instead of anger, he will be more willing to open up. When he tells you something truthful that makes you want to scream and rant, say "thank you for your honesty"...I had to bite my tongue but I did it. You also have to try not to ask the "What about me?" questions that I would always throw at him--didn't you think of me then? Why didn'tyou think about me? Did you feel guilty about what you were doing to me?? etc. You get the idea. You want to get him to talk about HIM...How was HE feeling, etc.

I got as far as making my list...I didn't give it to him...yet...still would like to . I haven't gotten all my qts answered yet either. But it helped me to figure out what I really needed to know. This exercise may or may not help you. It helped me to kind of sort out the areas I had qts in. For exxample, since I didn't know what she looked like, alot of my qts were about her physical appearance. I asked about specific instances that I remembered him leaving, specific days, some of these I have asked my H, and some not.

I don't think you should wait a month. that is a long time...try to bring up the EN qts again, set aside a time and tell him that you want to take them over based on how you are feeliing NOW...this is for both of you so that he will know your needs too..He is going to have to do something to help in your recovery...My H is not a reader so hasn't read the books or anything. I know how you feel. I hate to push too, but I get resentful that he doesn't care enough to even find out what my ENs are.

It's good that your parents don't know about the A because as you say, they would treat him much differently. And his parents should know. I'm glad that your FIL talked to him. My FIL talked to my H too and the funny thing is he understands, but loves me to death and told him he made big mistakes...He is thankful that I am staying by my H. My MIL says that I am a better woman than she is. that they both had As, they were young when they Md (18) and it was too much (he was in Vietnam when she had her A)...

I also understand about Sundays and church. We just started to go to church as a family in Dec and it has been good for us. But alot of the time, I feel the pastor is talking about us, he talks about how adultery is just THINKING of being with another woman, etc. You never know what kind of M people have, and many happily Md people are in As and you would just never know it...I asked my H if he would go to couples counseling w/ the pastor and he doesn't want to. We did MC for three sessions but stopped due to insurance issues. I would like to go back when we can. It helped.

I get what you are saying in your last post about the commitment of M not being shared equally. I also question this w/ my H. I also didn't have a good loving example of an M. My parents fought and D'd when I was 18 . This made me more committed to my H, I thought. I am not sure about him anymore. I wonder if he truly was leaving her or if he is just telling me that. He justified it all by saying that he was not leaving, therefore the kids won't be hurt, won't go through a D like I did, and I will be able to raise my kids...this is how he thought. He just didn't think of me AT ALL and he admitted as much. I was NEVER meant to find out. He didn't get attached. She swore she wouldn't tell anyone, wouldn't fall in love w/ him, it just happened that she did....THIS bothers me tremendously, that his commitment to me is not the same as my commitment to him...

I wish I had more time to write but I wanted to post this now so you don't think I forgot about you. I hope this helps. Read Arks' post "Be still" again...it is a good one to printout and keep close when you want to react to what H says...

Have a good night.!

Hey MF-

Thanks for the B-Day wishes! I've definately had better ones, but it was alright. My H's Dad and Step-Mom made a nice dinner for us, and my H did an fine job picking out a present without any prompting from me. He handed it to me in the bag from the store (complete with receipt inside), so he's guilty of being a bit tacky, but he is a guy. Tacky I can live with.

We talked about going to MC initially, but didn't go. For my part, I was really afraid that a counselor would talk me out of trying to work on my M at all. Early on, I was feeling so much anger, and looking back on all my H's flaws, I was really concerned the counselor would listen to me vent and say, "well, you were never happy, anyway . . ." But the truth is I was happy. My H has never been a perfect guy--but I have never claimed perfection either. We are very different people in some respects, but I always thought that our differences complemented each other, so I was willing to overlook the aspects of my M that did not complete fulfill my expectations. Once I made the decision to give my H a chance, I didn't want a counselor pulling me in another direction.

For my H's part, he is a very private person and rarely shares his feelings with anyone. Before his A came out, I had seen him express real sadness only once. I have a hard time picturing him opening up to a counselor. When we first spoke of it, he said he was willing to go, but when I didn't push it, he didn't either. He did look into the phone counseling with the Harley's on this website, but when he saw the price he ruled that out.

So now we are looking at counseling with our church leader. My H has already done this several times, and I have once. I am thinking there would probably be a benefit to following up on that some more, for my own benefit. I think my H will go more also, at my continued urging. He has been asked to make some regular appointments so he can get back into "good graces."

But ultimately I think he would like to just move on and not look back. I think his definition of "working on the marriage" is primarily not cheating again. That, and a few minor adjustments that he's made after reading "SAA." I think, given time, his efforts there will make the biggest difference, becaues that will gradually make a difference in the "Love Bank." Mine was empty, but it's getting better. It's going to take a while. But sometimes, we'll be talking and laughing, and it feels almost like old times. I remember loving him and loving that he made me laugh. I want to get back to that, and I know my H does, too. He seems to feel that the quickest way is just to leave the past in the past. Don't dwell in it, don't talk about it, don't think about it. And there is probably an element of trying to "save my feelings, too." Why admit to details that will only make me feel badly (of course, this helps him too--some admissions would make him look like a bigger jerk than he wants to).

This, of course, ignores my need to UNDERSTAND why this happened. I don't know if its some female thing, or a BS thing, but I do have the questions I want to talk through. I like very much your idea of writing them out and categorizing them. I know some of my lingering questions are really just sick curiosity--details that will really not help me. But others are not, and I want him to discuss those. And the EN's must have answers--you are right. We don't have a really healthy marriage if he is making some gestures aimed at meeting my needs, and I'm left to stab in the dark about what his needs are.

It's always good to visit, MF. Somehow it seems like we should have a nice long chat over lunch. But you are probably in a totally different time zone! Maybe tomorrow I will eat some chips and salsa at my desk while I type, and it will make it feel like lunch.

Have a great evening, and I will check back tomorrow!

-C.

Hi C,

I was wondering about our timezones too--I'm in CT and right now it is 1:00 pm EST and I"m about to go out for lunch. Just wanted to check in.

I know what you mean about it feeling like old times sometimes. I love that. I love to watch my H with the kids and feel a bit of the old feeling towards him.

There are alot of Pro-marriage MC's out there. Ours started the first session saying he was an advocate for the M and sometimes it would seem as if he was on one side or the other but he really wasn't, he was on the side of the M.

I sometimes think it would be best to move on but then I really think I will only truly move on when I don't have these lingering thoughts. I think that needing to understand is a BS thing, because I see alot of men who are the BS trying to understand also...I don't know if we ever will truly understand.

I know that my H and I have alot of work to do to make our M healthy. Right now I feel like we are slipping back to how it was pre-A and I feel like we are settling into old habits...I'm fighting this feeling right now.

well I have to go now because I'm starving, but will check back later to see if I catch you (I leave work at 5 EST).

Have a good day...chips and salsa sounds pretty good right now!
C

MF-

Connecticut? I've never been there! I am in MST in Utah, in fairly small community not far from where the 2002 Olympics were held. Pretty mountains, but too much snow.

That's good that you found a positive marriage counselor. I was so nervous about what would even be out there. My FIL thought that the counselor he and my MIL used before their divorce was NOT good. Kind-of encouraged MIL that all the focus should be on herself and what she needed and wanted rather than looking at the marriage. Obviously didn't help them. I had heard negative things from others, too. But maybe I am really missing the boat here. Maybe I am an idiot for thinking that we can do this on our own!

But I am not sure if even a pro-marriage counselor would contribute much at this stage. My H and I get along well--always did actually. The snag is trying to talk about the A, and I don't think my H would do that with someone he didn't know. He just seems to have a mental block when it comes to dealing with his feelings in this area. At first I thought he was really being evasive and not wanting to be totally honest with me about why it happened. But now I am thinking that he really doesn't understand why himself. My tentative conclusion is that there isn't a single reason--I think that there were a number of factors that contributed and made him vulnerable to this OW's advances.

Part I think is the parenting cycle you have spoken of--I think my H really did feel neglected after DD2 was born. Actually, it probably started with DD1. My H would complain from time to time that I had turned into a "mother bear" and that I needed to just relax and not focus so much on her. I did carve out a block of time each evening for us to spend time together after I put her to bed--but I think he still carried some resentment that I had changed a bit in becoming a mother. But I make no apologies for this. Being a Mom DOES make you different!

And I think there were some self-esteem issues, too. He was passed over for a promotion that he viewed as being a make-or-break opportunity. And I had just started a new position that was a nice bump for me--that probably hurt his ego a bit. He had always really eaten up compliments from other females--he would frequently come home a brag a bit when someone said something flattering to him. We would laugh, but I was never worried about it at all. But for some reason, the attention from the OW wasn't something that he ever mentioned to me. He knew, I'm sure, that I wouldn't find this one amuzing or harmless--and I guess he was feeling enough like he WANTED it to continue, so he didn't want me to stop it. So down the slippery slope he went.

But it is all so petty, and it still boggles my mind. YEARS of building something and investing into a FAMILY--all at the brink of being lost for someone that really, they didn't care about at all. Ultimately--there isn't a real reason for an A. So I guess all of us need to accept that we will never truly understand it.

So my challenge now is to try and redefine our relationship so that neither of us get to that vulnerable place again. It's funny you mentioned you carry around ARK's post--and so do I. Although the one I printed out is an answer she actually directed to you--the one about "planting a seed" to build on. I have been trying to think about how I could do this--to get to a place where my H and I can talk about what happened.

I feel like we slip into pre-A habits, too. So easy to do. There were reasons, after all, that we all acquired those habits in the first place! So I am trying to boil it down to some real basics: block out time together--do things for him that I know will make him feel loved. But it is hard. He still wants to have his "time to himself" where he can meet his guy friends (they drink beer in a shed--sounds boring to me, but whatever) or go to the gym. I hate that d**m place.

But I hope lunch was good--I better get back to work. I will check back later.

Take care,
C.

Hey C,

And I've never been to Utah...so we are even there...

Yes, things DO change when you become a mom...At least you set time aside for him after the baby was asleep. I didn't really do that. I do feel like I took him for granted but it was not intentional...I was trying to be the good wife and mother and take care of his kids...He always stressed this, that I was a great mother. Last year, I was feeling like I had lost myself and would complain to him that I had. This was right around the time the A happened, before I realized I was pregnant. I was feeling like all i was was a mom, and when I got pregnant, this feeling only got worse. Like he just wanted me to be barefoot and pregnant... I was the ultimate self sacrificing mom, not buying things for myself, going without new clothes, shoes, haircut, so that I could get things for the kids (or for him). To do something just for myself was unheard of...I just kind of stopped making the effort and thought My H would always love me no matter what...

I agree that the A is not caused by just one thing. it's alot of things that come into play. He may not really know because he was in such a different frame of mind, you know that FOG that everyone talks about here...My H never considered leaving me, but he said that he was anxious and afraid that I would find out. The A lost its appeal when she made demands on him, but he couldn't find a safe way to get out of it.

Ark's post about planting a seed is a great one. It takes alot of patience. Here is a comment from FantastiGirl that I also copied. It is a good way to tell your H that you need to talk, without Lbing.

"Lovingly explain to your partner that you are still in pain over what happened and loving them and forgiving them is so important to you that you are willing be so careful not to hurt their feelings in your discussion about it, so that you can both let go of the pain and move on. But without being heard you will feel like you don't matter to them, and that's how you felt during that bad time, so it is a terrible trigger. You need their help to heal, and you agree to do everything you can to help them heal in return.

That's your starting point. Hold on to your dignity, your compassion and your self-respect. If they AO, mirror back, I can see you feel like my not forgetting yet is consciously meant to harm you.

I don't want you to feel harmed, at the same time I also am feeling harmed by perception that you don't want to help me heal, and that really hurts since I feel as if you don't care that you hurt me.."

Haven't done this one yet. But I keep it in the back of my mind...

Gotta go..will check in later...

MF

Hi MF & cjs,

I hope you gals don't mind that I butt in on your thread.
I have been reading threads here today since 8:00 a.m.!
I have found this thread to be especially helpful for me in raising ways to ask certain questions I have yet to have answered. H is not very informative when he does answer my questions. So that leaves me feeling like I have more...
I also have such a hard time getting up the courage to ask and discuss these things. The fear of his feeling like I am dragging him through the past.... AGAIN....

Personally, I just can't let go of this, and fight this "need" to understand. I need to understand this on so many different levels. And since he still works with "it" I am not able to release my fears of future/further betrayl or white lies.

H has said they pretty much aviod each other at work. For instance, he says "it" saw him in the breakroom one night and immediately turned and walked out. Is this the truth or just something to try to ease my fears?
He has been leaving work a bit later than he was when I was working and says it is only to get a few extra minutes of OT in. But by doing this, he is also leaving around the same time "it" does. And since he is leaving for home during a.m. rush hour, it is very convenient to use the "stuck in traffic" excuse for being later arriving home than in the past. which to me makes little sense as it is only a 45 min difference and there is the same amount of traffic at this time.
He told me when they started "getting friendlier" it was when he helped "it" out when "it" needed a ride home from work a few times, when "it" let "it's" kid use the car.
I fear the white lies of NC and that he could be "helping" "it" again. Or chatting in the parking lot. He admitted he is curious abou thow "it" is doing and how things are going with "it's" 16 yo son and his knocked up gf.
I told H this was NO CONCERN of his and to ask would be making "it" think he may still care or have "feelings".

It is these sort of things that make me feel I need to keep asking questions.
As loving as H has been and the things he does do to try and reassure me he is in our marriage and with me all the way, I just can't help but hold on to my suspcions and fears. His lies in the past were so convincing and elabortly told that when he tells me things now I do not know what is truth or lies.

My self confidence and self esteem is so shattered that I still walk on eggshells.
Add to that, that things are staring to be like they were pre-A in some ways that I fear a re-lapse on his part.
One little chat with "it" and BAM!

I don't know you guys, do you think I am being overly paranoid or do I make a good case for my questions?

And as for boundries.... How do I tell H what I need? Especially with out coming accross as being demanding or controlling? I hate thinking that he is reminded of his infidelity every time he calls me in the morning to tell me he is on is way home from work. Then, when he walks in the door 1/2 an hour later than he should be, gives me elaboarte explainations about why it took so long. I know he sees the fear in my eyes every day.
How do I handle this one?

Thanks for letting me BUTT in on your thread.

Be well,

MF-

Yes, it is hard not to loose yourself in being a mother. Sometimes it feels noble to define yourself as "MOM" and then other times you forget who you are. I've had many of those moments myself. But one things about this whole BS experience is that I have discovered many new things about myself that I really like. I like that I can forgive someone who hurt me so deeply. It's nice to find out that you're a nicer person than you thought you were.

My H said he felt "trapped" in his A also. I read in one of the Harley's articles that men in particilar tend to become very depressed because of this--they sense they are stuck and they don't know what to do. That explained a lot to me about the way my H was acting--I thought he seemed very depressed, but I just couldn't figure out why.

Thanks for Fantastigirl's post--I will print that one out too. I have been thinking lately that maybe I need to just plan out some things that I can say--and tell him up front that I am not expecting a response. That will give me a chance to feel like I have been heard, and give him some time to process it without feeling like he needs to be on the defensive for a round of questions.

Besides just talking--another thing that we did that I think helped both of us was a home improvement project. We put some tile in the entryway and put up some beadboard on one wall. It wasn't really intended to be therapy when it started--in fact I actually bought the tile when he was still in his A and he wasn't interested at all. But a few months ago I painted and he tiled and when we were done we had done something together that looked nice and made our home feel nice. We've been planning some other projects like that.

Howdy H-

How frustrating that you H still works with the OW! I don't think I would feel comfortable with that AT ALL. I know it's easier said than done, but is there a way for him to find a different job? It just seems like it's flirting with disaster.

I do have a minimal level of trust with my H to have a LIMITED amount of time to himself to go to the gym or hang out with his friends--but it is scheduled and he gives me a time to expect him home, etc., so I can feel comfortable that he's not using his time as a cover to meet with OW. But if he WORKED with her EVERY DAY????? No way. I would live in fear, as you describe. And that isn't a good recovery environment for either of you.

Well, gotta run and get back to the family. The girls are waiting for dinner!

I'll check in later-have a good night.

-C.

Thank you CSJ for validating my feelings. It is so very hard to accept him working with "it". If he forgets to call me in the a.m. before he leaves work I am so upset by the time he gets home. Always has an explanation ready though for what happened in traffic.
Red Flags? Paranioa? Time will tell if the stories and "tardieness keep happening.
I so wish he could find a new job. But this job came after a hard, 2 month long search after loosing an "ideal" job he had for 3 years at our former church.
He went back to the only vocation he knows and has no formal education to further his career or options.
He'll never go back to another church either as he is so jaded about them.

So, until he learns to better communicate with me and play by the rules, I will continue to live in fear..... How fun!
Now, if I had the ways and means to take care of myself and the kids, that might be a different story. I could possibly feel empowered to make some make or break decisions. I'd rather have my marriage though in a new, recovered, stronger than ever way.

Be well,

Hello ladies,

Harmonie, I understand your feelings of anxiety when your H comes home later than expected. This is part of the whole thing about being a BS. Lies my H told that I don't know were complete lies, half truths or what. My mind is so confused that I don't know what to think...So what you need to do is to make it clear to your H how this makes you feel. He does not need to work a few extra minutes for OT. How much $ extra is it>? Not enough to cause you stress and anxiety while you are waiting for him to come home. The more times that he is trustworthy, the more you will be able to trust him. Trust but Verify. ANd he should NOT be talking to OW about ANYTHING that is not work related. You are NOT being paranoid, but you need to find a way to express how this triggers you back to the A when he comes home later than expected. I read in one of the Harley books how honesty is so essential to your recovery that there can be NO little white lies or anything, on either Spouse's part. No matter how meaningless it may seem at the time.

CSJ, Yes, I have also discovered some things about myself. Some things I did not like about who I was at the time of the A and I have stepped up and made changes... I never would have thought I could stay with a cheating spouse, but I guess you never really know until you are faced with it.

Trapped in the A is a common feeling. I also read how NC has to be NC because the temptation is so great to start up again. This makes sense. My H worked with OW in another dept. he said that he would back away from her but she would pursue him, that alot of the calls the last few months were her fighting w/ him, calling him and fighting w/ him...He kept getting sucked back in because she was so desperate and needy and all alone.

Glad to hear that you did some home projects together. That is a good way to rebuild your commitment as a team...good therapy...and your house will look good too!

Well, I hope you are both having good days. I am getting ready to leave work (1/2 day today) and am glad for the weekend. I hope to have some M issues discussed this weekend.

Have a good weekend and I'll be back on Monday,
MF

Does you H still work with the OW also, MF? Just curious about how you dealt with that. Just another monkey wrench in what was already a pretty big mess.

I'm getting psyched up to have (or try to have) another talk with H. He has been really chipper lately--even went so far as to sell his truck and buy a brand new one. This is rather unusual for him--he is pretty tight with his purse strings, so I was pretty surprised when he started talking about wanting a new truck last week.

But I think it's a positive thing. I can't imagine him wanting to spend money like that if he wasn't feeling pretty comfortable with the way things were at home. He didn't want to spend ANYTHING during the A. Didn't want to go anywhere, do anything. He did go to the mall a few times to buy new clothes for himself--which was a first in our entire relationship. I thought it was wierd at the time, and even wondered who he was trying to look nice for, but then dismissed it. A few weeks ago I read that this behavior was a huge red flag for an A. There were so many red flags, and I simply closed my eyes. Makes me feel so stupid now.

But my first order of business is going to be to get going with the EN Questionnaire. And I think plan a date night. We've been slipping into some of the old habits, I think, and getting pulled into separate directions. That is going to be a lifetime challenge. Niether of us have even been real hobbyists who did a lot of elaborite activities together. For years we have been homebodies--and that only increased after the kids came along. But I think now part of the A was that H was getting bored and wanted to do something else. The problem now is that his current favorite thing to do is to hang with the guys. This doesn't exactly include me, does it? So I'm working on some couple things--challenging.

Despite it all, though, it's been a good week. I was having a down week last week, but things are looking up today. Excited for the weekend, maybe. But I'll check in for a status report on how everyone is doing on Monday.

Enjoy the weekend ladies!

-CSJ

CSJ,

No, my H no longer works there. He left the company. I would not really be able to deal with it if he did.

My H also spent money on new clothes and also the whole 'going to the gym' thing was new. As for red flags, I also saw an article on signs of an A, but it was after he had NC, but before DDay. So all the signs were there but not any more after I read the article, you know? Like, If I had read the article a month or so earlier, I would have been able to say, yes, he does that. So when I read it, I thought, he used to do this, and do that...I also feel really stupid and naive. I never thought he was capable of lying to me at the magnitude of what he did.

We are also homebodies, don't do alot of recreational activities. Anything we do, we do w/ the kids. He likes to watch tv sports and movies, so we spend alot of time at home, or out playing with the kids when the weather is nice. We have a tough time w/ Date night due to getting a babysitter for the 3 kids. He doesn't trust anyone to watch them except for my mother, and she can't handle them all at once for very long. She is 71 yrs old and just picking the baby up is tough because she weighs about 20 lbs now.


Hope you had a nice weekend. We talked a little bit. Had a good night on Friday night and reconnected with alot of SF--that is a good way to reconnect, alright...I was down last week also but feeling much better today...

Will check in later.

Mamafish-

Glad to hear you had a nice weekend. Ours went okay--it was good weather (finally) so we spent some time outside with the kids--plus took them to "Ice Age" which they loved.

I put the EN questionnaire in his face again--and he initially gave me the same reaction: laughter--"no, I'm not going to fill it out" So I took a deep breath and looked him square in the eye: "I NEED you to fill this out. PLEASE."

So he agreed without anymore begging. I was going to try and talk again, but decided against it for now. I may only be able to get him to have one real discussion about things--and it might be more fruitful if we do it after he has filled out his paper. So I will give it a little more time.

Friday night one of his guy friends had the house to himself--his W was gone--so he had a BBQ just for the guys. H said before he left he wouldn't stay long, and then called later to say "a couple of hours." I tried to wait up for him but fell asleep. He got home at about 1 am, he says. It was kind-of a bad trigger for me--remembering many evenings where I was sitting up wondering why he was late. He just doesn't have a clue what it's like to have all these awful memories. But he did call--which is more than he ever did in our relationship, even before his A. He always hated checking in like I was his mother or something. But now he is showing me that consideration, so I guess I am grateful for that.

Who would have thought I would have had to go through all this just for my H to realize it was curteous to call me and let me know where he was. Go figure.

Anyhow--back to work. Good to hear from you.

-CSJ

Hi C,

Good move for you with the EN questionnaire. And really, give yourself a pat on the back for taking it one step at a time and putting off the big talk...Let him do the qtns and then talk about that...go in small steps...then you will at least be moving in a forward direction. I'm trying to do this as well. I know you want to get all the answers now but try to remember what Ark said about planting small seeds...it helps me to keep my mouth shut sometimes...I am going to try to focus on our M rebuilding now and get him to talk about ENS and all of that. Putting the A questions on the back burner unless it comes up... It did come up in one way this weekend. My H loves classic old movies. I'm not a big fan. I like movies but usually don't have the time to sit through a movie unless the kids are asleep. I wouldn't watch an old cowboy movie on my own. Well there was an old classic on in the afternoon and he put it on and said, I know you are not really into old movies, like another female was, but I figured I would expose you to it and maybe you would like it." I got the drift that the OW liked these old movies, but you know, I didn't even mention it...I shut my mouth. I just said thanks for thinking of it like that. (the 'old' me would have said, Oh you used to watch old movies with HER! and totally LB on him..)...

One other thing that happened, was watching the Parent Trap and the fiancee says to Dennis Quaid, it's either your kids or me, and DQ says, Well them of course... My H said, I don't understand how she could think he would leave his kids. Just like OW was telling people I was leaving my family for her." I said to him, she can't understand it, or imagine it because she doesn't have it. She doesn't have the bond w/ her child that you have w/ your kids. And she never saw that side of you, interacting with them. She only saw one part of you, not all of you like I know and love". That was pretty powerful for him to hear, and I liked how I expressed it to him. I could tell he was really thinking about that in his mind.

I'm the same way with my H when he is out late. He also calls to check in now when he wouldn't before. Same thing about him acting like I was his mother or something. At least they are realizing that they shouldn't take US for granted anymore, right??

Well, getting ready to go home. Have a good night.

Hey MF-

I think that is so remarkable that your H brings up a few observations about the OW to you, just in casual conversation. I can't imagine my H ever doing this. Your H must feel very safe with you--he trusts that your relationship is not in such a fragile place. This has really been my goal, and I have made a point, since I guess mid-December, to not corner him about the A. I have just tried to focus on being kind, making him feel loved, and making our home feel like a comfortable place. I was hoping that sometime he would be able to bring it up on his own, but now I am thinking that may never happen. I think it is kind-of like that quote you gave me from Fantastagirl--he thinks speaking of it means that he is not forgiven.

But kudos to you for making into a meaningful way to express what your relationship with your H means to you. I'll bet you made loads of LB deposits with that one!

My H took us all for a ride in his new truck--he is very proud of it. He's waited quite a few years to treat himself, and he told me, as if to explain why he bought it, "It's my present to me." I just smiled and nodded, "yes--I know." I should have made it a better moment, you know? Because what I was thinking inside was "I GET that about you--I have always understood you better than you gave me credit for--and I think you deserve your truck." But I let the moment get by me. I'll have to find another now!

But hopefully he understands what I meant. We had talked of remodeling the kitchen recently (we bought my in-laws old house not long before his A started--my H had a real sentimental attachment to it, and we both wanted the acreage to raise some animals with the kids) because it is a little older and not as nice as the kitchen in our previous home. Before he bought the truck, he had told me that my kitchen was the next big purchase. But inside I knew that if we bought the kitchen this way, it would be sort of extortion--him buying me off with an expensive "sorry" for the A. And I don't want my kitchen to be a daily reminder of that--especially one that he would come to resent. So I told him--"no, you get your truck first."

Now that's love, don't you think?

Later,

-C

Hi C,

Yes, that is love with a capital L!! I'm sure he appreciates that you are putting off your kitchen work for his truck. And you can still make your moment, by buying him something special for his truck.. you know, some kind of accessory that he would like, like a massaging seat cushion or something...Browse at the auto parts store...they have a ton of stuff, holders, etc. He would love it, I'm sure.

You are doing a great thing for your H by making your home a safe haven for him. I need to work on this myself.

Well, I just lost the whole post I wrote about the book the 5 Love Languages. Have you read it ? It is good and a quick read. I got it at the library. It is similar to MB, only he calls the Love Bank the Love Tank, but the same idea...Each person expresses/ receives love in one of five languages--words of admiration, gifts, quality time, physical touch and acts of service. If your H is expressing his love to you in his language (say acts of service, washing the car, etc) and your primary love lang is gifts , and he doesn't give you gifts, you will not feel loved.

Well, gotta get to work. Hope you are having a good day.

MF-

I like the idea about something nice for his truck! He will be finishing up his last few classes next week on his MPA degree and should be getting his diploma soon. I have been puzzling about the perfect graduation present, and I think you have hit upon it! I'm going to have to do some detective work on "truck accessories" as this is not exactly my area.

I'm getting ready for a "girl trip" next week with one of my old roommates from college. We have made a nice little annual tradition of meeting for a few days in Vegas. I am really looking forward to some "me" time, but at the same time, it makes me nervous. I have not spend any time away from home since I found out about the A. I have been so afraid that if I turned my back for one second that things would unravel.

And this is too bad for my parents, because I used to try and take the girls for a weekend and drive up to see them every several months or so, and I haven't done that in quite some time now. My H has always been reluctant to go with us--he's never quite bonded with my parents, and it makes me sad. They like him and are always kind to him--but he thinks it's "boring" to visit (I admit--they live in rural Idaho and I was bored there from time to time growing up). So I went by myself and the kids. Who needs him, right? But now I think this may have contributed--at least somewhat--to the environment of his A. We did many things separately.

Anyway--maybe a little break in Vegas will be just what I need. Hope you had a nice evening--talk to you later.

-C.

Hi C,

That would be a great grad present--to give him something for his truck...

Have fun on the girls trip to Vegas (I have never been there). I think it will be good for you to get away. Many times I have wanted to just get in the car and drive to visit my friend in NYC (only an hour away) for the weekend. But never did it...Oh well...It will help you to get some perspective. Is he taking care of the kids while you are away? Then he won't have any "free" time with the girls around, you know what I mean...

As for the weekends in ID, Maybe you could ask him to come w/ you next time. Tell him how much it will mean to you if he comes, that he hasn't visited in so long, etc. Tell him how much you miss him when you go by yourself, that you and he could get some alone time while your parents watch the kids for a night (if that is an option)....tell him how you feel about the separateness of this contributing to the M and lack of communication (or whatever)...Try to approach it from this direction ..(my H and I also had very separate lives as I was trying to be the strong independent wife. ..it backfired on me)...Plant the seed and see what happens...:)

We did have a nice evening, thanks. I brought up MB and the Questionnaires and he agreed that we needed to get back to working on the M, instead of just coexisting day by day. So I think I will try to do that this week. So I am hopeful about that and if I am proactive and get it all together, I think we will get it done...

Have a good day. Would you believe that this weekend the weather was almost 70, daffodills are blooming, and today we woke up to about one inch of snow...Now it is clearing up. This is New England weather for you...

Take care!! (I am on vacation next week (4/10) due to my son's school break. If I have a chance, I will post from the library...so don't think I'm ignoring you if you don't hear from me for a while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />